STOP IT!!!

Emperor

WHY???

I read the Patch V1.1 that is coming out with Craglorn and the fixes look great except for one major thing... You keep lowering the difficulty on multiple things...PLEASE stop making this game boring by allowing me to just blitz through anything that trys to stop me...

The game is already too easy in most cases and the few cases that actually provide some sort of challenge/fun keep getting nerfed!

Sorry, I usually provide more detail and don't just rant like this, but this is getting out of hand. I thought this game was for 18+, not a bunch of 10 year olds that never played a game before and are used to getting everything they want easily.

EDIT:

Here is a link to Patch V1.1 notes:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87867/patch-notes-v-1-1-inc-craglorn-from-pts/p1

NordJitsu

Lets just hope that the option to set all zones to VR10 difficulty gets implemented. They mentioned the possibility in the AuA.

Malediktus

I agree. If anything they should make everything harder. I keep hearing of people who solo veteran group dungeons and craglorn challenges. This is just terrible.
And most of the stuff they nerfed in 1.1 is already mindnumbing easy if you dont play braindead.

bean19

Here is a link to the PTS patch notes: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87867/patch-notes-v-1-1-inc-craglorn-from-pts

There are quite a few things added for those of you who are so amazing at the game that you can do things like soloing veteran dungeons. I have trouble with more than 3 same-level veteran mobs, and I've played MMOs for years - including raiding - so I consider myself a good player. Obviously, I'm not a great player by these standards, but I'm definitely above average. In fact, anyone already at the cap is definitely a hardcore player. If you guys find this easy, then you are amazing players in the top 1% (or exploiters, though I'm not calling you that and don't think everyone who solos a veteran dungeon is an exploiter or that using in-game skills that have great synergy is exploiting).

1. Craglorn is group-content only. Even getting to the dungeons will be group content, so that will likely be very difficult.

2. Trials are added which are 12-man dungeons. In addition, these trials will have leaderboards, so that if you are so good that you can beat them "easily" then there is still the competition of doing so vs. all the other top 1% of players.

3. Trial of the Week Rewards - A trial each week gives rewards to those groups that make the leaderboard for that trial.

4. Tougher NPCs in Cyrodiil.

The only things that I see that make the game easier are:

1. Veteran xp for kills is more than doubled. . . time to play my sub-veteran alts until the patch comes out.

2. Battle level bolstering in Cyrodiil increases the amount that stats are bolstered (but you can toggle bolstering off. . . if you like getting killed in PvP and are playing sub-veteran).

3. Lower durability loss while in group content from death.

4. Fixed a bug that was making it so that the Thief stone does not apply spell critical strike bonus.

5. Various extremely minor skill fixes - some slight buffs and some slight nerfs.

6. Various fixes for dungeon bosses, some of these might make those bosses easier, but they were for leveling dungeons - not veteran dungeons, and the truth is that those dungeons are too much of a challenge for average players. I know that I die WAY more often in these dungeons than in other games where I usually don't die even once and if you do someone did something stupid AND we didn't react to it correctly.

I'm surprised to not see any changes to dungeons to make them worth doing more than once. Right now they're good to see once and to possibly get some loot. Does anyone know the design philosophy around not giving xp for dungeons (or just the small amount from the dungeon quest)? Dungeons have always been an optional fun way to advance my characters in MMOs other than ESO.

Emperor

@bean19
They said in the patch notes that they lowered the difficulty of multiple dungeon/quest bosses and this is just what broke the ice. They have been lowering the difficulty of multiple things since the game came out...It needs to stop. If the boss is impossible to beat or insanely difficult then I can understand a slight nerf, but they are nerfing bosses that are just medium difficulty (the ones where you might have to actually use food boosts and dodge power attacks) but OH NO!!! people can't do that because that would require them to do more then button mash

As far as the rest of what you said... There is no way I am in the top 1%. The only online gaming experience I have is the time I played Runescape for a while. If I am in the top 1% then I must just be a prodigy or something. I do have high hopes for Craglorn actually providing some sort of challenge, but I shouldn't have to get to max level to start enjoying the game. I should be challenged throughout the leveling experience to keep me interested in the game as well.

Nox_Aeterna

Ok , but then they better add a way for me to change class.

They make me a DK so i can faceroll the current content , then i agree we can make things harder.

Emperor

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Ok , but then they better add a way for me to change class.

They make me a DK so i can faceroll the current content , then i agree we can make things harder.

Oh please... tell me your class and I will show you people face rolling the content with it.

Nox_Aeterna

Emperor wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Ok , but then they better add a way for me to change class.

They make me a DK so i can faceroll the current content , then i agree we can make things harder.

Oh please... tell me your class and I will show you people face rolling the content with it.

By all means , im a templar.

Give me a build that will allow me to solo 2/3 packs in a public group dungeon , which adds up to 10/18 mobs at once , like i saw some DK doing. Their life stayed almost full the whole time , but i will accept mine even if i get down to 50% HP.

Oh , btw , im vet3 atm , so the build should be to do that at that point in the game.

SexyVette07

Its the casual playstyle I keep referring to. Just keep dumbing down content until the brain dead dont have to do anything to win. Lets also do away with the whole leveling process, and give free legendary gear for signing in each day.

Im in no way saying im better than anyone else. What I am saying is quit complaining and try harder or do something different. This game really isnt that hard as it is, and for people continually asking for nerfs instead of putting in effort to learn to play better is sickening and will lead to the demise of the game. When the game gets too easy, people get bored or advance too quickly through content, which both ends up in people quitting... all because of scrubs who refuse to try to get better. If people are crying for nerfs to low level content, imagine if they actually get to veteran content >.>

I am not part of the 1%, but I actually try to learn from my mistakes and get better...

7788b14_ESO

I just want them to fix the bugs...

Emperor

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Ok , but then they better add a way for me to change class.

They make me a DK so i can faceroll the current content , then i agree we can make things harder.

Oh please... tell me your class and I will show you people face rolling the content with it.

By all means , im a templar.

Give me a build that will allow me to solo 2/3 packs in a public group dungeon , which adds up to 10/18 mobs at once , like i saw some DK doing. Their life stayed almost full the whole time , but i will accept mine even if i get down to 50% HP.

Oh , btw , im vet3 atm , so the build should be to do that at that point in the game.

This is the first vid I found on Youtube. It's not perfect, but w\e. Start watching at 18 minutes and he kills 4 mobs at once with his Templar and if you are worried about your HP getting low...HEAL! You are a templar after all. Enjoy.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rDveUR5O72s

Nox_Aeterna

Emperor wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Ok , but then they better add a way for me to change class.

They make me a DK so i can faceroll the current content , then i agree we can make things harder.

Oh please... tell me your class and I will show you people face rolling the content with it.

By all means , im a templar.

Give me a build that will allow me to solo 2/3 packs in a public group dungeon , which adds up to 10/18 mobs at once , like i saw some DK doing. Their life stayed almost full the whole time , but i will accept mine even if i get down to 50% HP.

Oh , btw , im vet3 atm , so the build should be to do that at that point in the game.

This is the first vid I found on Youtube. It's not perfect, but w\e. Start watching at 18 minutes and he kills 4 mobs at once with his Templar and if you are worried about your HP getting low...HEAL! You are a templar after all. Enjoy.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rDveUR5O72s

Ic , you did not understood what i meant.

I meant 2/3 PACKs , which adds up to 10/18 mobs in total at once :P. Which would have killed that guy for sure.

I can take care of 3/4 mobs at once myself (and im in vet3 , while he is in vet2), that is not the issue really , if i could not even do that , i would not be able to even play in the veteran ranks.

What i cant do , is solo a group public dungeon like it was nothing. And im quite sure you can find videos of DKs other ... "feats".

Emperor

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Ok , but then they better add a way for me to change class.

They make me a DK so i can faceroll the current content , then i agree we can make things harder.

Oh please... tell me your class and I will show you people face rolling the content with it.

By all means , im a templar.

Give me a build that will allow me to solo 2/3 packs in a public group dungeon , which adds up to 10/18 mobs at once , like i saw some DK doing. Their life stayed almost full the whole time , but i will accept mine even if i get down to 50% HP.

Oh , btw , im vet3 atm , so the build should be to do that at that point in the game.

This is the first vid I found on Youtube. It's not perfect, but w\e. Start watching at 18 minutes and he kills 4 mobs at once with his Templar and if you are worried about your HP getting low...HEAL! You are a templar after all. Enjoy.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rDveUR5O72s

Ic , you did not understood what i meant.

I meant 2/3 PACKs , which adds up to 10/18 mobs in total at once :P. Which would have killed that guy for sure.

I can take care of 3/4 mobs at once myself (and im in vet3 , while he is in vet2), that is not the issue really , if i could not even do that , i would not be able to even play in the veteran ranks.

What i cant do , is solo a group public dungeon like it was nothing. And im quite sure you can find videos of DKs other ... "feats".

I know what you are talking about and that is not a normal occurrence. The way he pulled that off was by using the magma armor ultimate (caps damage at 3%) and spamming AOE attacks. Of course he will be able to take on 18 mobs at once with that strategy. Heck, he could take on 50 mobs with that strategy, but it would only be possible for the 13 seconds his ultimate lasted. Besides, with the patch update also comes the limit to how many mobs are effected by AOE attacks so that will no longer be possible.

I am not here to argue what class is better anyway. I am just saying that any class can blitz through the current content (at least level 1-49) and that is a problem.

Audigy

People ask for nerfs because they are rejected from public groups and not because its to hard.

The reason for that is the high demand people have on others in these group dungeons.

We all played WoW I guess, so we all know how it works. Player x isn't allowed in a raid or dungeon group because he doesn't has the best gear, achievements or a high gearscore / DPS dummy test result.

Player x now goes to the forum and says the content is too hard, Blizzard reacts and makes content less demanding on gear, dps and skill.

Player x tries again and is still rejected because the Gearscore now doubled and the DPS required by the group leader is three times as high.

Player x goes to the forums again ... rinse and repeat.

What I mean is, as long people are excluded from content for whatever reason that might be, they will come to the forums and demand nerfs in hope of receiving access to dungeon content.

If players would be less picky in premades, would tolerate casuals in random LFG groups etc. then hardly anyone would cry for nerfs.

The Elitism that MMO´s have backfires all the time and makes content less challenging.

Vanilla wow had nobody crying for nerfs and guess why? Because players were tolerating others in their groups, DPS meters had hardly any value, there were no achievements or gearscores either.

Xanxarib16_ESO

Emperor wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Ok , but then they better add a way for me to change class.

They make me a DK so i can faceroll the current content , then i agree we can make things harder.

Oh please... tell me your class and I will show you people face rolling the content with it.

By all means , im a templar.

Give me a build that will allow me to solo 2/3 packs in a public group dungeon , which adds up to 10/18 mobs at once , like i saw some DK doing. Their life stayed almost full the whole time , but i will accept mine even if i get down to 50% HP.

Oh , btw , im vet3 atm , so the build should be to do that at that point in the game.

This is the first vid I found on Youtube. It's not perfect, but w\e. Start watching at 18 minutes and he kills 4 mobs at once with his Templar and if you are worried about your HP getting low...HEAL! You are a templar after all. Enjoy.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rDveUR5O72s

Ic , you did not understood what i meant.

I meant 2/3 PACKs , which adds up to 10/18 mobs in total at once :P. Which would have killed that guy for sure.

I can take care of 3/4 mobs at once myself (and im in vet3 , while he is in vet2), that is not the issue really , if i could not even do that , i would not be able to even play in the veteran ranks.

What i cant do , is solo a group public dungeon like it was nothing. And im quite sure you can find videos of DKs other ... "feats".

I know what you are talking about and that is not a normal occurrence. The way he pulled that off was by using the magma armor ultimate (caps damage at 3%) and spamming AOE attacks. Of course he will be able to take on 18 mobs at once with that strategy. Heck, he could take on 50 mobs with that strategy, but it would only be possible for the 13 seconds his ultimate lasted. Besides, with the patch update also comes the limit to how many mobs are effected by AOE attacks so that will no longer be possible.

I am not here to argue what class is better anyway. I am just saying that any class can blitz through the current content (at least level 1-49) and that is a problem.

the fun part here is i use that tactic with magma armor, and i tank 30+ mobs with ease, we gain ultimate while having an ultimate running on us like Magma armor, this result in us the DK's to recast our ultimate every 10 sec. aka we wont die ever.

the only problem i have with this are the 15k hp mobs in the packs at VR 10.
or alot of spell casters, fire it the biggest enermy since im a vamp. but hey i still pull more then one pack if i can LoS pull i pull multiple packs.

Enikka

Audigy wrote: »

People ask for nerfs because they are rejected from public groups and not because its to hard.

The reason for that is the high demand people have on others in these group dungeons.

We all played WoW I guess, so we all know how it works. Player x isn't allowed in a raid or dungeon group because he doesn't has the best gear, achievements or a high gearscore / DPS dummy test result.

Player x now goes to the forum and says the content is too hard, Blizzard reacts and makes content less demanding on gear, dps and skill.

Player x tries again and is still rejected because the Gearscore now doubled and the DPS required by the group leader is three times as high.

Player x goes to the forums again ... rinse and repeat.

What I mean is, as long people are excluded from content for whatever reason that might be, they will come to the forums and demand nerfs in hope of receiving access to dungeon content.

If players would be less picky in premades, would tolerate casuals in random LFG groups etc. then hardly anyone would cry for nerfs.

The Elitism that MMO´s have backfires all the time and makes content less challenging.

Vanilla wow had nobody crying for nerfs and guess why? Because players were tolerating others in their groups, DPS meters had hardly any value, there were no achievements or gearscores either.

EXACTLY! I spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to find a group just bc it's a new dungeon for me. And guess what, when I finally get an organized group last night and I get the speed run achieve.

Then I attempt to pug and fail miserably but that's a completely different problem. This is another reason why different tiers of difficulty work. It gives everyone something to do. Because unfortunately the elitist attitude is a plague that won't end at this point.

Ciedoc

@Emperor If you want to pound rusty nails into concrete bricks with your willy go play games like Lineage II where its more a job and fear and frustration every time you leave a town. Not everyone wants to be punished playing a game they play for recreation. Its people like you that have the attention span of a flea that demands things be made more difficult then when it does become difficult you run away or the next shiny object that comes out distracts you and you leave to follow it. The type that eats up a game, believes griefing is a part of life, exploits a game for their own enjoyment then show no loyalty and ups and leaves on a whim.

A challenge is good but making things "impossible" for those not in the "elite" is what destroys games. Hot heads are a dime a dozen and not loyal.

Emperor

Ciedoc wrote: »

@Emperor If you want to pound rusty nails into concrete bricks with your willy go play games like Lineage II where its more a job and fear and frustration every time you leave a town. Not everyone wants to be punished playing a game they play for recreation. Its people like you that have the attention span of a flea that demands things be made more difficult then when it does become difficult you run away or the next shiny object that comes out distracts you and you leave to follow it. The type that eats up a game, believes griefing is a part of life, exploits a game for their own enjoyment then show no loyalty and ups and leaves on a whim.

A challenge is good but making things "impossible" for those not in the "elite" is what destroys games. Hot heads are a dime a dozen and not loyal.

Like I said before, there is no way that I am an elite player at this game. I am not a veteran MMO player except for some time on Runescape which hardly counts. I don't want the content to be impossible...I just want it to be a little challenging. I blitz through almost anything I come across in this game without even trying, including bosses! There are some exceptions like 4 man dungeons (which I can't blitz through, but I believe they could increase the difficulty) and some bosses, but they keep LOWERING the difficulty of those few things with every patch update.

Don't get me wrong, I have fun in this game, but killing everything I come across without even trying gets old pretty quick. At least make the bosses a bit challenging...

bean19

Emperor wrote: »

I am not here to argue what class is better anyway. I am just saying that any class can blitz through the current content (at least level 1-49) and that is a problem.

So you're wanting solo PvE before veteran rank to be harder - even though this is the base level content for players? Not everyone is a good player. I see plenty of sorcs running around spamming Mage's Fury and then spamming weapon attacks when they run out of mana. I also see those guys die a LOT. I mean a ridiculous amount. I also see players who NEVER block. . . even highly telegraphed power attacks that give you an opening if you block them.

I'm a pretty good player and I die more in ESO than I do in any other MMO - even while leveling through solo PvE content which is designed to be the most accessible in the game. Dungeons also have far more group wipes than I've seen in any other MMO unless I'm in a guild group where everyone knows how to play and uses voice chat. . . though this is rare because the lack of xp from dungeons means we only run them once to get the skill point and then never do them again.

Here is how a good MMO is designed:

Solo PvE - Mild Challenge for beginners and those who aren't good players

Leveling dungeons (not max level) - Moderate challenge that is hard enough to teach beginners but no so hard that they stop playing and never learn to play group content.

Max-level Dungeons (veteran dungeons) - Challenging. These aren't the hardest content in the game, but average players should find this daunting and wipe several times while still being able to beat it eventually.

Max-Level Raids (trials) - Extreme challenge. Above average players should wipe frequently until learning the content and obtaining impressive gear from the content that allows them to progress further. . . and/or there should be rewards for completing it more quickly with fewer deaths. That's the angle ESO is taking.

ESO is significantly more challenging than the average MMO in each of those categories (not sure about trials yet as I'm not VR10 and they aren't out yet). It also has veteran-mode Solo PvE (a whole new category) that pumps up solo PvE to be significantly more challenging for average players.

If they are making anything easier, it is because they have metrics that show that players are dying a TON and/or are giving up. If content is so hard that it causes player frustration, then it is too challenging. This is a difficult mark to hit because players have varying skill levels, but the goal is to serve the greatest number of players.

So the trick is to find your own difficulty. If you think the game is too "easy" then play content above your level. Try doing dungeons without a tank and just 3 dps and a healer. I regularly skip ahead in content on my alts because I can just do the quests that have skill points and then grind out kill xp much faster than leveling through questing. I fight mobs 1-3 levels above me (the bonus for higher level mobs seems to cap out around then and the fights become so challenging that I'm spending too much time on them for good xp/time). . . if you are a good enough player to find the game easy, I'm surprised you haven't figured out how to make it more challenging for yourself. Bad players and beginners can't do that.

Malediktus

playing content above your lvl means you skip a redicilous amount of content because levelling is so fast. i am usually 5 levels higher than required for the first quests in the next zone when I finished the current one
and even playing content 10 levels above yours is not hard, tried it

Emperor

Malediktus wrote: »

playing content above your lvl means you skip a redicilous amount of content because levelling is so fast. i am usually 5 levels higher than required for the first quests in the next zone when I finished the current one
and even playing content 10 levels above yours is not hard, tried it

@bean19
Malediktus took the words right out my mouth (er...keyboard)

I am almost always higher level than any mod in my current zone that I still have quests to do in and I have NEVER grinded for levels. This is another problem with the game. Leveling is obviously too fast compared to the amount of stuff to do in each zone. If I were to skip ahead (which I did try by the way because I was bored of blitzing through content) I would miss almost an entire zone of questing/activities.

HOWEVER, I do see your point and if this game is more challenging then others I would hate to play the others you are talking about. Like I said before, I have very limited experience with MMOs so maybe that is why I expect more of a challenge. I hope what you say is true though about veteran/max level content because I am more than ready for a challenge. Unfortunately I read about people complain even that content is too easy though so I guess we will see...

Bhakura

It really makes no difference what devs do to a game, theres always people gonna complain thingsa re to easy, and others will complain things are to hard.
Some people play well, have talent to beat the odds, others just run around poking their nose with no clue.
it will never change no matter what devs do. Sayed it before saying it again, 21st generation is complain generation.

Chirru

Malediktus wrote: »

I agree. If anything they should make everything harder. I keep hearing of people who solo veteran group dungeons and craglorn challenges. This is just terrible.
And most of the stuff they nerfed in 1.1 is already mindnumbing easy if you dont play braindead.

This just.... well, yes, there are some people who do...Can you?
With a complete Class worth nothing more but a storage container in a Bank...what do you expect. Either they fix things or they make it easier. Making things easier is much easier. Pun intended.

Chirru

Bhakura wrote: »

It really makes no difference what devs do to a game, theres always people gonna complain thingsa re to easy, and others will complain things are to hard.
Some people play well, have talent to beat the odds, others just run around poking their nose with no clue.
it will never change no matter what devs do. Sayed it before saying it again, 21st generation is complain generation.

Yes, I agree, to a point. The point is that the people without a clue (the average players like me) are in the majority. Some hotshots beating the odds after 10, 20, 30 attempts with huge repair bills and buying gold are not the measure the Dev's should go by.

ElSlayer

Emperor wrote: »

I thought this game was for 18+, not a bunch of 10 year olds that never played a game before and are used to getting everything they want easily.

Emperor

Yea it is America (on the NA server) and America has laws for video games. This game is 18+ so GTFO if you're under 18 and complaining. If you are under 18 and not complaining then I don't really care.

reggielee

lol, calm down and see what happens, the toned down bosses may still be quite powerful.

Therium104

NordJitsu wrote: »

Lets just hope that the option to set all zones to VR10 difficulty gets implemented. They mentioned the possibility in the AuA.

This thread should have been addressed to you my little nerf everything because I am bad.....NordJitsu snowflake.

The last thing this game needs is a reduction in skill based play. The harder the better.

hajee

oh so you choose a OP class and you ran though the game to easy.

Emperor

hajee wrote: »

oh so you choose a OP class and you ran though the game to easy.

I play a sorc and a DK. I blitz through almost all content with both races and I am sure others can do the same if they know how to make a good build.

bean19

Emperor wrote: »

I am almost always higher level than any mod in my current zone that I still have quests to do in and I have NEVER grinded for levels. . .

So you are doing everything and consequently out-leveling the content. . . and then you are complaining that the game is too easy when you are doing content below your level?

The advancement rate is actually about right for people who aren't doing everything. They might miss a few quests or a couple world bosses and still be within a level of the content. If you do everything, then you'll be ahead which mean you can choose to do easy content so that you don't miss any of it or skip ahead to content that you find challenging. Either way, this is a "problem" that you can easily fix just by advancing the main story-line quests until you find the content challenging. Then do sidequests again until it gets too easy and then go back to the main story. Rinse and repeat.