1.07 vampire nerfage is live ;)

Attorneyatlawl

Looks like it should be reasonably balanced if those are the changes they had talked about in the AMA.

P.S. I hope the note about cyrodiil latency improvements turns out to be good stuff!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/91966/patch-notes-v1-0-7

Also, for those of us who sell in trade guilds while pvp'ing...

"Mail •Significantly reduced the cost of sending C.O.D. mail.
•Fixed an issue where the postage fee percentage for C.O.D. mail was not working as intended.
•Fixed an issue where you were still being charged a postage fee for C.O.D. mail even if the recipient name was invalid.
"

Jarnhand

One step in the right direction, question is if it really helps on the stacking/exploiting...

Ghenra

Now DK standard, Bash and Bolt Scape and this game can be a good game.

awkwarrd

You ever notice the patch notes don't tell you specific details.

Like "reduced mail cod" by.. um how much?
Oh "significant" yeah thanx.. my interpretation might be different from whoever wrote it.
Not that i care about cod, the prices of cod were silly, but this is just another example of many things in the previous and to-date patch notes that keep getting listed like this, Vague.. and discouraging, like the person writing the notes has no idea if it was actually change and by how much.

These kind of vague patch notes are pretty standard for a F2P..
Pretty lazy for a Subscription game, like bare minimum, unless they don't give patch notes at all.. then F2P will be a sure thing.

I do hope ZOS get better at giving details with patch notes, because skill balances will need details, not just "changed "X" skill of class "X" significantly"

Is it too much to ask for a couple more words in each update that involves tweaking things in values?

Example1:

"Mail •Significantly reduced the cost of sending C.O.D. mail.

Example2:

"Mail •Reduced the cost of sending C.O.D. mail from 10% down to 4%.

ChairGraveyard

It doesn't actually fix the problems with ultimate cost reduction, though, which means the Emperor and others will still be able to be pseudo-invulnerable and spam Bat Swarm constantly.

The nerf mostly makes drain and mist form worse (on top of them being bugged), which affects mostly those vampires who play PvE and weren't abusing Bat Swarm.

The real fix is to either cap ultimate cost reduction or make it into multiplicative, instead of additive, reduction.

(I wonder if anyone will bother to listen before having it demonstrated, which will probably result in more ham-handed PvE vampire nerfs, rather than a real fix which might also fix Standard spamming etc. - oh well.)

AshTal

I doubt this will be enough to fix Vampire PvP. What I don't get is that within 7 days of people PvPing it was obvious what didn't work and 30 days later only an actual exploit of mass stacking Vampire Bat Swarm is fixed. This should have been fixed the day after it was pointed out and the other balance issues should have been addressed on the next fix.

ChairGraveyard

AshTal wrote: »

I doubt this will be enough to fix Vampire PvP. What I don't get is that within 7 days of people PvPing it was obvious what didn't work and 30 days later only an actual exploit of mass stacking Vampire Bat Swarm is fixed. This should have been fixed the day after it was pointed out and the other balance issues should have been addressed on the next fix.

This. They should have fixed ultimate cost reduction, the real problem, in the first place.

Now people will still be spamming standard and bat swarm, and we'll have to wait even longer for a fix, which will probably be another nerf to the PvE side of vampires instead of a real fix. Again.

Oh joy.

Sariias

Baby steps people, baby steps.

chrisub17_ESO104

Sariiasb14_ESO wrote: »

Baby steps people, baby steps.

Ya this is actually the smart way to do this. Huge corrections often cause more harm then good. And most players tend to underestimate/overestimate the impact small changes can have.

Plus, ultimate cost reduction is a global thing, you don't just change that without a significant amount of testing to see the effects it has on every part of the game.

Milky

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Now DK standard, Bash and Bolt Scape and this game can be a good game.

Bolt Escape just needs some mechanic refiing to prevent exploiting. As a battle move it's perfect the way it is.

Bash (with shield) does too much damage, yeah, but hopefully it doesn't become useless after the changes.

DK Standard... I don't understand what the issue is, it's the easiest ultimate to counter that I can think of. Don't stand in the giant AoE circle of death. Did they talons you? Then dodge roll out, one dodge roll will take you out of the circle if you went the right direction. Did you get stunned inside it? Then stun breaker and walk or dodge out. The skill is fine, learn to counter it. If you had no stamina when you were hit with it, tough luck, that's your fault and you need to learn better resource management. A DK is easy enough to spot, you should always expect them to banner since the other ultimates are pretty lame.

RaZaddha

I just wish people learn to use Rapid Maneuver and Purge

Milky wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Now DK standard, Bash and Bolt Scape and this game can be a good game.

Bolt Escape just needs some mechanic refiing to prevent exploiting. As a battle move it's perfect the way it is.

Bash (with shield) does too much damage, yeah, but hopefully it doesn't become useless after the changes.

DK Standard... I don't understand what the issue is, it's the easiest ultimate to counter that I can think of. Don't stand in the giant AoE circle of death. Did they talons you? Then dodge roll out, one dodge roll will take you out of the circle if you went the right direction. Did you get stunned inside it? Then stun breaker and walk or dodge out. The skill is fine, learn to counter it. If you had no stamina when you were hit with it, tough luck, that's your fault and you need to learn better resource management. A DK is easy enough to spot, you should always expect them to banner since the other ultimates are pretty lame.

The problem with standard is talons spam and ultimate cost reduction, also it was hitting more than 6 targets. I just wished more people used Rapid Maneuver or Purge.

Milky

RaZaddha wrote: »

I just wish people learn to use Rapid Maneuver and Purge

Milky wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Now DK standard, Bash and Bolt Scape and this game can be a good game.

Bolt Escape just needs some mechanic refiing to prevent exploiting. As a battle move it's perfect the way it is.

Bash (with shield) does too much damage, yeah, but hopefully it doesn't become useless after the changes.

DK Standard... I don't understand what the issue is, it's the easiest ultimate to counter that I can think of. Don't stand in the giant AoE circle of death. Did they talons you? Then dodge roll out, one dodge roll will take you out of the circle if you went the right direction. Did you get stunned inside it? Then stun breaker and walk or dodge out. The skill is fine, learn to counter it. If you had no stamina when you were hit with it, tough luck, that's your fault and you need to learn better resource management. A DK is easy enough to spot, you should always expect them to banner since the other ultimates are pretty lame.

The problem with standard is talons spam and ultimate cost reduction, also it was hitting more than 6 targets. I just wished more people used Rapid Maneuver or Purge.

Yes well if 30 people want to stand in a red AoE circle they should take damage for being idiots. There is no issue with DK standard and talons spam, as stated, you can dodge roll out of it in one dodge. If they talons you again, you're outside of the field so it's a non-issue.

It sounds like your problem is actually with talons, and not with the DK standard.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO

Sariiasb14_ESO wrote: »

Baby steps people, baby steps.

While smaller steps are good for sake of caution, allowing some bugs and imbalances to stay for this long period of time is simply a loss to the company, because more ppl will cancel subs and go find other things to do.

There was no reason why they couldn't have capped or made reasonable changes to how lowering your cost of ultimates is handled, let alone allowing bat swarm stacking, healing while in mist form, and the unlimited DK aoe, within a quick time period, not 30 days later.

I have to seriously question what thought processes some of the decision makers are using and why, when it comes to enacting change that is needed much sooner then later.

The damage is done, I know many friends and current guild mates who are already leaving ESO because it honestly feels like they are taking far to long to deal with some of these issues.

moXrox

Sorcerer can still spam the Vampire AoE ultimate.

With the new patch sorcerer can reduce the Ultimate Bat Swarm down to under 100.

Lets see how this will look like in pvp, at least they cant get it down to 4 or even 0 like before.

Sariias

e.gamemarkb14_ESO wrote: »

Sariiasb14_ESO wrote: »

Baby steps people, baby steps.

The damage is done, I know many friends and current guild mates who are already leaving ESO because it honestly feels like they are taking far to long to deal with some of these issues.

With so much more that this game has to offer, what with exploration, quests, dungeons, story, etc, if people aren't willing to give the creators of a game a few weeks minimum to test things on their own and see what works, then I feel that the problem is those players, not the designers.

Flaky players are the last people you want to cater to.

moXrox

the Ultimate ability could be reduced to 0 ultimate costs. This was broken.

Zargorius

Small step towards the balance, finally the cheating vampires have been reigned in, very good change indeed - and the vampire (cheater) tears taste so sweet!

Tankqull

mist form must not disbable the healthbar and alliance tag of the user for enemy alliances.

Aballister

Sounds like they are moving in the right direction, even if it's a little slower then would be expected.

firstdecan

Zargorius wrote: »

Small step towards the balance, finally the cheating vampires have been reigned in, very good change indeed - and the vampire (cheater) tears taste so sweet!

Absolutely. I did some PvP last night, and it actually felt balanced. Playing in Auriel's bow, there was a huge and prolonged battle for Faregyl, with all three alliances vying back and forth for the keep. it. was. AWESOME! No one dominated that battlefield, I didn't see that stupid bat swarm ability spammed like crazy, and there were smart players on all sides playing strategically (in addition to stupid ones that were just meat shields). This is the chaos I wanted out of a huge war with dozens of players on each side. The EP took the keep at one point and did a great job defending it, but the AD and DC wore down the defenses. Teams would entrench themselves in the towers by resources, so even if you took the resource there would be a dozen of them still there to take it right back.

The tweaks they introduced made the game fun again, I hope it stays this way. I had to tear myself away from the game so I would get enough sleep for work today. I don't know if it's perfectly balanced, or even if such a thing exists, but the arduous battle I fought in last night, where ground was taken inches at a time and all three alliances were fighting for those inches, is exactly what I think this experience should be like.

RaZaddha

I saw a vampire jump into a zerg spam bat swarm and instantly get killed.

Milky wrote: »

RaZaddha wrote: »

I just wish people learn to use Rapid Maneuver and Purge

Milky wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Now DK standard, Bash and Bolt Scape and this game can be a good game.

Bolt Escape just needs some mechanic refiing to prevent exploiting. As a battle move it's perfect the way it is.

Bash (with shield) does too much damage, yeah, but hopefully it doesn't become useless after the changes.

DK Standard... I don't understand what the issue is, it's the easiest ultimate to counter that I can think of. Don't stand in the giant AoE circle of death. Did they talons you? Then dodge roll out, one dodge roll will take you out of the circle if you went the right direction. Did you get stunned inside it? Then stun breaker and walk or dodge out. The skill is fine, learn to counter it. If you had no stamina when you were hit with it, tough luck, that's your fault and you need to learn better resource management. A DK is easy enough to spot, you should always expect them to banner since the other ultimates are pretty lame.

The problem with standard is talons spam and ultimate cost reduction, also it was hitting more than 6 targets. I just wished more people used Rapid Maneuver or Purge.

Yes well if 30 people want to stand in a red AoE circle they should take damage for being idiots. There is no issue with DK standard and talons spam, as stated, you can dodge roll out of it in one dodge. If they talons you again, you're outside of the field so it's a non-issue.

It sounds like your problem is actually with talons, and not with the DK standard.

Yes, it's talons during group fights, they spam more talons than I can usually dodge, and some times they even put a CC down on you so you have also to stun break, I have never seen people use purge or rapid maneuver against it, so if I try to counter the talons with rapid maneuver and he turns to me or I get CC'd I'm dead, if i use cleansing ritual some people are dumb enough not to use purify or it ends up being a spam talon-cleanse war. It's a l2p issue generally, but it's still a rather cheap tactic and nowhere near what batswarm was.

Milky

RaZaddha wrote: »

I saw a vampire jump into a zerg spam bat swarm and instantly get killed.

Milky wrote: »

RaZaddha wrote: »

I just wish people learn to use Rapid Maneuver and Purge

Milky wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Now DK standard, Bash and Bolt Scape and this game can be a good game.

Bolt Escape just needs some mechanic refiing to prevent exploiting. As a battle move it's perfect the way it is.

Bash (with shield) does too much damage, yeah, but hopefully it doesn't become useless after the changes.

DK Standard... I don't understand what the issue is, it's the easiest ultimate to counter that I can think of. Don't stand in the giant AoE circle of death. Did they talons you? Then dodge roll out, one dodge roll will take you out of the circle if you went the right direction. Did you get stunned inside it? Then stun breaker and walk or dodge out. The skill is fine, learn to counter it. If you had no stamina when you were hit with it, tough luck, that's your fault and you need to learn better resource management. A DK is easy enough to spot, you should always expect them to banner since the other ultimates are pretty lame.

The problem with standard is talons spam and ultimate cost reduction, also it was hitting more than 6 targets. I just wished more people used Rapid Maneuver or Purge.

Yes well if 30 people want to stand in a red AoE circle they should take damage for being idiots. There is no issue with DK standard and talons spam, as stated, you can dodge roll out of it in one dodge. If they talons you again, you're outside of the field so it's a non-issue.

It sounds like your problem is actually with talons, and not with the DK standard.

Yes, it's talons during group fights, they spam more talons than I can usually dodge, and some times they even put a CC down on you so you have also to stun break, I have never seen people use purge or rapid maneuver against it, so if I try to counter the talons with rapid maneuver and he turns to me or I get CC'd I'm dead, if i use cleansing ritual some people are dumb enough not to use purify or it ends up being a spam talon-cleanse war. It's a l2p issue generally, but it's still a rather cheap tactic and nowhere near what batswarm was.

If they added immobilize immunity after dodge rolling I feel it would solve a lot of the issues.

I already sacrifice a lot of stamina to stun breaker, and I get immunity for a time. But I get nothing for dodge rolling, I can be immobilized again immediately.