vet dungeons utterly overtuned?

hamon

i,m feeling like vet dungeons are just far too severe. ive done every dungeon before vet and enjoyed a fair challenge.. but since vet you can barely find a group that can kill any boss.
its just in line with how vet mode is too punishing imo.. vet mode should be called gimp mode cos all of a sudden you go from feeling pretty good about your character to feeling hes a gimp. love the game hating vet mode... tune it down a notch for the love of good.
( and i,m sure we,ll hear from the rambo types with crap like." me and my leet mates facerolled all vet dungeons while naked cos we,re so uber... LTP" )

i like to think i,m slightly above average as an MMO player. but vet mode is just too punishing , and with the zero xp the dungeons are just an expensive frustrating vaste of time and money at present.. its a shame cos i think they have ruined their own content here.

OmniDo

The issue really isnt with the difficulties as much as it is with the lack of combat information.
Telegraphs can be avoided, sure. But considering the sheer amount of spell animations, graphics, etc going on the screen, its often difficult to notice an interrupt opportunity amid all the chaos of avoiding fire, breaking out of ice, or noticing status effects.

Just as is the case with most encounter-related combat situations, information and awareness are Key.
The lack of this makes the game a bit more difficult until one has bashed their face into their keyboard long enough to recognize the patterns or just brute-force their way to success via attrition.

The lack of information from status effects, upcoming interruptables, etc... forces the players to attempt to prepare for ALL of them, without knowing which ones are important, and that leads to a blitz-style behavior that has no finesse at all, and is heavily gear and ability dependent.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

vet mode is far from as punishing as it could be, this is an mmo - your character is less of a god than in skyrim. I can still fight 3 enemies and win at a time - probably a task more suited to a group if you ask me. Fact is it's at the difficulty it is for a reason - trust me you'll get better and find people who can do the dungeons well and do them well yourself. Give it time - you're learning people are learning. A nerf now will turn this game into a joke later.

superfluke

On the beta forums there was quite a debate over combat information with a large percent of players defending the minimal approach. They were proud purists of the elder scrolls and many wanted nothing to do with 'min/max' players, calling them elitists.
I predicted this minimal approach would actually create a more refined elite class at the top of PVE content and that's what it is doing. The VR dungeon learning curve is a mean one for most players. There aren't going to be alot of quick PuGs or casual minded players enjoying successful loot runs.

Wifeaggro13

hamon wrote: »

i,m feeling like vet dungeons are just far too severe. ive done every dungeon before vet and enjoyed a fair challenge.. but since vet you can barely find a group that can kill any boss.
its just in line with how vet mode is too punishing imo.. vet mode should be called gimp mode cos all of a sudden you go from feeling pretty good about your character to feeling hes a gimp. love the game hating vet mode... tune it down a notch for the love of good.
( and i,m sure we,ll hear from the rambo types with crap like." me and my leet mates facerolled all vet dungeons while naked cos we,re so uber... LTP" )

i like to think i,m slightly above average as an MMO player. but vet mode is just too punishing , and with the zero xp the dungeons are just an expensive frustrating vaste of time and money at present.. its a shame cos i think they have ruined their own content here.

Nah the purple set gear is pretty nice. the Vr dungeons have some tough spots but on the whole there not bad . they are definately not over tuned. but they are poorly itemized for sure. and the scalability is poor the bosses are all V% that are punishing if your VR 1 sure. But at V5 its a walk in the park and turns into farmed speed runs.
I cannot comment onVR 6- through 10 but ive heard some of the V5 bosses are tougher then the V10's at proper lvl.People need to get over the fact they cant just roll over everything like they did in the early levels these should be challenging and rewarding. right now though the VR1-4 the juice just aint worth the squeeze due to scalability and itemization.

Reevster

Its a MMO not a single player game or its suppose to be anyway lol, this game is so easy its laughable at times ,I would welcome harder content from 1 through 50 , VR content is fairly easy really , they should make all lvls harder but not before a better social system or have one main guild only , this 5 guild system is really not promoting guild cooperation at all , this game is more Elder Scrolls then it is Elder Scrolls "online". I guess thast ok but a true MMO should be harder and you should actually "Need" other players to fight most bosses.

jhaan.kreiib16_ESO

It's a similar thing in V6+ dungeons. You need to V8 or so really before attempting them. At V10 they are a walk in the park also. Sewers is easiest by far and hollow the hardest.

Mephiston87

honestly u just need a good tank that knows what he's doing, if you dont get that hope for a good healer. One or the other you should have a successful run.

Bandras

I think it depends on the dunegon as well. For instance, Banished Cells (to me at elast) seemed to be the easiest of the first three veteran dungeons. We did that a few times at V1.

Then we tried Spindleclutch and it turned out to be a bit difficult for us. We haven't tried the Grotto yet but (hopefully) tonight we will give that a chance as well.

Vet dungeons are less forgiving and you really need to pay attention to what you are doing. If ppl stand in the red aoe zones then they will take a lot of damage and it is also worth trying some other skills as well. In our group when we failed on a boss some of the members changed a few skills on the toolbar and then, suddenly, everything was easy.

It is also a good to know the fights. At first the bosses might seem tricky but then when you see what they do then it is a lot easier to counter them and kill them.

Of course you need gear as well but I think the most important thing is using the right skills.

Reevster

Bandras wrote: »

Vet dungeons are less forgiving and you really need to pay attention to what you are doing. If ppl stand in the red aoe zones then they will take a lot of damage and it is also worth trying some other skills as well. In our group when we failed on a boss some of the members changed a few skills on the toolbar and then, suddenly, everything was easy.

Exactly and is why i say lvl 1 through 50 is too easy, you dont need to worry about red zones etc etc hardly at all, so when players hit VR some play so poorly that they die fast when things get hairy and then complain about the content being "too hard" Need harder content pre VR to train some of these players properly.

HashxBrowns

You have to keep trying. after about 50 wipes my group completed the hardest vet dungeon. I like how hard it is.

jammery2k

I have been healing VR content since my Sorc Resto staff healer hit VR1 - and even tho its minor improvement, VR1 over 45 gear is your first step, most wouldn't walk into a level 12 dungeon with level 5 gear. That being said these are HARD to heal the first time. The next step is to watch your Magicka pool down to your very last drop, Heavy attack restores 10% of Magicka per attack means you better be attacking as much as you are healing.

Beyond that its learning the fights, an example - Spindlecluch - DPS Check at the Gargoyle, and a heal check at the last Vamp Boss.

The curious thing about making the earlier dungeons harder is I felt they added LOTS of mechanics to the later dungeons but not the "OMG I was 1 shot" aspect of the VR dungeons. I would have liked to seen that "one" dungeon that everyone at 45 still had to do because it was just that hard.

Oh and to all you Vamps out there.... Do your healer a favor and buy some Fire resist! BC Is sooo much easier with it!

Axer

There tough, and imo perfectly tuned for me, and my guild.

However I fully understand that makes them too hard for the majority of players.

IMO they should HEAVILY prioritize working on a difficulty setting system for dungeons.

One similar to the one used in DDO would be an extremely good guide, as it does a solid job at catering to all levels of player skill:
- Casual: Incredibly easy, but provides very little rewards. Intended for solo players who are only interested in the story. (-50% xp/vp, -5 lvls loot tables, purples don't drop)
- Normal: A fair bit easier then it is now (say -25% hp/damage/general stats, bosses uses specials less often). Intended for groups of 4 brand new players who never did it before, and don't have good gear/skill/synergy, but understand the core concepts of the game. (-10% VP, Standard loot levels, -10% drop rate on purples)
- Hard: Current difficulty level. Imo intended for skilled players who build powerful characters designed to handle challenging content well. No changes to xp/loot.

And the fun new stuff!:

Elite:
- At least +50% harder. Bosses use specials with reckless abandon and no cooldowns. Increased randomization in ability use. Random placement of mini bosses inside trash packs.
- Death means more: Players CANNOT self rez period ever inside this mode. Resurrecting other players consumes 2 soul gems. Releasing always puts you in the start of the dungeon - no checkpoints.
- Loot: +1 level on random loot table. -5% drop rate on common purples, but +10% rate BoP Items (and bloody allow us to trade within the party members).
- XP: +10%

Legendary:
- Not available for "leveling dungeons". VR dungeons only.
- Insanely hard. Intended for very skilled players to fail at least 10 attempts before having even a chance at success. +100% stats, Bosses all have double the number of adds/specials are 50% faster, and random chances at mini bosse showing up along side full blown bosses.
- Death is extremely punishing: Cannot self rez ever. Ressurrecting other players is 10% slower, and consumes 3 soul gems. Well of Souls mechanic from trials is present: Once 50 ressurections are performed, no more are possible, and the dungeon is locked - releasing from death removes you from the instance.
- Speed is required. Dungeons have a 60-120 minute time limit, depending on intended length and design. After the time limit expires, you are removed from the instance.
- Lockouts are in place. Upon success or failure of the dungeon, you may not re-attempt that one for 16 hours.- If you all exit the dungeon within 30 minutes of starting, and not completed, you may try again - but only up to 3 times. Failure from deaths ignores this and locks the dungeon.
(May be best to forego this until several more dungeons are VR'd)
- Loot: +2 levels on random loot, with random purples being more common. Random common purple drops no longer drop, instead the BoP powerful epics drop as legendaries, and 1-2 special legendary only items can drop - at a very low rate.
- Due to the timer, you are always given a completion token each run, so that if you aren't lucky enough to get a correct pull.. You can grind out the gear as an option. 20 tokens allow you to trade in from a single piece of gear from the standard list. 5 tokens let you get a weaker version of the same item (maybe same stats, but has no 4/5 piece set bonus).
- XP: +50% (Really should be +1000% from current rates, tho I expect the base amounts to be increased to be reasonable across the board some day)
- VP: None is awarded. These aren't intended to be attempted/completable by non capped characters.

Rembrandt

Dungeons and Dungeon Difficulty is fine as it is.

@Axer more difficulty levels are imho a bad idea. they would only create an even greater gap between top notch players and casuals and thin out the ESO playerbase even further. Yet with dwindling subscriptions in the future exactly the opposite should be the case. Everyone must be encouraged to give their best in group play. No easy way through dungeons. One difficulty for everybody at maxlevel


With additional difficulty levels, in the end there would be the same situation as now, people complaining about legendary/normal/casual being too hard while other people clearing everything with ease. Your additional difficulty levels would only force most people to use cookie cutter builds (more than already) to complete these insane requirements. Some things would probably even be impossible without perfect timing and class synergies. Only a fraction of the players would most likely even be able to compete in such an environment.


Dungeon difficulty is just fine, yet it would be better if there were more Dungeons at veteran level. Lets see how the adventure zones work out. one difficulty level for top- and casual player alike. if some people need many attempts to kill something, so what. The satisfaction after a kill will be greater for everyone involved if you actually achieve something instead of running a silly sandbox mode just for the sake of it.

Axer

re:Rembrandt
Self centered attitude imo.

Yes, it would seperate groups of players. But it would do so in an excellent way that would improve the community.

Having everyone in one big pot doesn't help things. It results in the rage that is these forums lately. Have you not see hte hundred plus reply threads stating the dungeons, and even solo questing is too hard?

It's 100% absolutely not a matter of "Argh i have to attempt this more times then others to get it" It's 100% "I and my 3 friends of similar skill 100% can't complete this dungeon as it currently is designed". Thats not fair to those players.

Inevtiably without difficulty settings, the devs WILL give in. The dungeons WILL get nerfed, and will become increbily boring for players like myself, only to cater to another crowd.

You simply can't tune 1 difficulty for every player. Not in a game with millions. Not in a game that advertised "Play it your way". Not in a game that lets you focus only just 1 ultra utterly underpowered weapon skill and doesn't ever caution you not to do that. Simply can't happen.

I'm a student of mmo, pugging dungeons and enjoying a challenging, and I know from far too many games that the current system, no matter how much you like it, or I, cannot work.

DDO had difficulty settings from the get go, and remained a 100% subscription based hardcore game for years despite that. It had only maybe 100k subscribers at it's peak, this game is likely near a million. They are not in any danger of "thinning" the player base too harshly.

It's entirely the opposite. The hardcores WILL get burned out of the current modes and the casuals will continue to complain. Neither will be happy when you try to force them all down one pipe.

So while I appreciate you enjoy the current level, and would not like my "elite" or legendary settings, I urge you to think more about others, and the long terms results, rather then just your own personal desires.

Where you see "cookie cutter" I see excellent team work and intense fun. We all won't enjoy the game in the same way. But the devs can still cater to us both.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

Are you all kidding me ? Its actually to easy, Banished cells for instant can be done VERY easy if you know mechanics, same for Spindleclutch !

You cant and wont do it on V1/2 But on 3 its already doable..
Stop complaining, only Fungal grotto is a pain.. The rest i did without any1 dying ( and i could actually DPS as a Healer )

They are not called Vet dun for nothing guys, but they are NOT to hard at all..

RagePlug

HashxBrowns wrote: »

You have to keep trying. after about 50 wipes my group completed the hardest vet dungeon. I like how hard it is.

50 WIPES?! I'm leaving after 10 max.

SexyVette07

Axer wrote: »

There tough, and imo perfectly tuned for me, and my guild.

However I fully understand that makes them too hard for the majority of players.

IMO they should HEAVILY prioritize working on a difficulty setting system for dungeons.

One similar to the one used in DDO would be an extremely good guide, as it does a solid job at catering to all levels of player skill:
- Casual: Incredibly easy, but provides very little rewards. Intended for solo players who are only interested in the story. (-50% xp/vp, -5 lvls loot tables, purples don't drop)
- Normal: A fair bit easier then it is now (say -25% hp/damage/general stats, bosses uses specials less often). Intended for groups of 4 brand new players who never did it before, and don't have good gear/skill/synergy, but understand the core concepts of the game. (-10% VP, Standard loot levels, -10% drop rate on purples)
- Hard: Current difficulty level. Imo intended for skilled players who build powerful characters designed to handle challenging content well. No changes to xp/loot.

And the fun new stuff!:

Elite:
- At least +50% harder. Bosses use specials with reckless abandon and no cooldowns. Increased randomization in ability use. Random placement of mini bosses inside trash packs.
- Death means more: Players CANNOT self rez period ever inside this mode. Resurrecting other players consumes 2 soul gems. Releasing always puts you in the start of the dungeon - no checkpoints.
- Loot: +1 level on random loot table. -5% drop rate on common purples, but +10% rate BoP Items (and bloody allow us to trade within the party members).
- XP: +10%

Legendary:
- Not available for "leveling dungeons". VR dungeons only.
- Insanely hard. Intended for very skilled players to fail at least 10 attempts before having even a chance at success. +100% stats, Bosses all have double the number of adds/specials are 50% faster, and random chances at mini bosse showing up along side full blown bosses.
- Death is extremely punishing: Cannot self rez ever. Ressurrecting other players is 10% slower, and consumes 3 soul gems. Well of Souls mechanic from trials is present: Once 50 ressurections are performed, no more are possible, and the dungeon is locked - releasing from death removes you from the instance.
- Speed is required. Dungeons have a 60-120 minute time limit, depending on intended length and design. After the time limit expires, you are removed from the instance.
- Lockouts are in place. Upon success or failure of the dungeon, you may not re-attempt that one for 16 hours.- If you all exit the dungeon within 30 minutes of starting, and not completed, you may try again - but only up to 3 times. Failure from deaths ignores this and locks the dungeon.
(May be best to forego this until several more dungeons are VR'd)
- Loot: +2 levels on random loot, with random purples being more common. Random common purple drops no longer drop, instead the BoP powerful epics drop as legendaries, and 1-2 special legendary only items can drop - at a very low rate.
- Due to the timer, you are always given a completion token each run, so that if you aren't lucky enough to get a correct pull.. You can grind out the gear as an option. 20 tokens allow you to trade in from a single piece of gear from the standard list. 5 tokens let you get a weaker version of the same item (maybe same stats, but has no 4/5 piece set bonus).
- XP: +50% (Really should be +1000% from current rates, tho I expect the base amounts to be increased to be reasonable across the board some day)
- VP: None is awarded. These aren't intended to be attempted/completable by non capped characters.

I like your thinking.

Im sick of people complaining about how hard this game is.... Try getting better, developing a better strategy, or heres a crazy idea... Try putting a healing ability on your bar or a damage reduction skill instead of only facerolling dps abilities?

I dont think people understand what "veteran" dungeons imply... its not level 51 or 53, its VETERAN level 1-3. Its supposed to be much harder. Its content for VETERAN (ie experienced) players. Playing veteran levels is not required, you can stay in the 1-50 levels where people are more comfortanle with the difficulty. Quit complaining for veteran content to be nerfed...

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

I went through vet dungeons. In general they are easier then i expected and wished for, although certainly some boss tells are not there and some mechanics should be improved.
It is logical that some people need harder modes and some people are looking for more casual ones. Answer on that will be to introduce difficulty levels and appropriate loot tables.

Kroin

hamon wrote: »

i like to think i,m slightly above average as an MMO player. but vet mode is just too punishing , and with the zero xp the dungeons are just an expensive frustrating vaste of time and money at present.. its a shame cos i think they have ruined their own content here.

If you would be slightly above the average MMO player, you woudent say that Vet Dungeons are hard.

Step up and learn your class and learn to move you will see that the dungeons are really easy after 1 or 2 times.

Enikka

The elitist attitude on this thread is astounding. Yes, vet dungeons are fine with an organized group that knows exactly what to do.

BUT, they aren't puggable and arguing otherwise just makes you look like you're trying to flex your epeen.

I spent most of the night last night trying to get a run in bc my partner who happens to be a tank is busy this week. First I tried to heal, but the dps check wasn't happening. So then I went dps, and ended up tanking in cloth gear several times. After several attempts I finally found a guild group that just needed another dps and we blew through. But the pug groups were absolutely doomed. (Oh yea, I also got no freaking loot for all of that effort.)

Now look at this from a subscription standpoint once all the "non-raider" type players get to VR levels. What do you think they're gonna do when they realize there's no content for them? They're going to quit, that's what. And you can be happy about that all you like, till you realize that's where the financial support for the game is gonna go too.

Dungeons are not that rewarding. And once Craglorn comes out many of the higher tier players won't run them. So there is not much justification for them to sit where they are in terms of difficulty. Fail to give the casuals any sort of endgame and this game will die of starvation from funds. It's about time some of you realize that simple economic fact because it's going to happen whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Axer

Kroin wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

i like to think i,m slightly above average as an MMO player. but vet mode is just too punishing , and with the zero xp the dungeons are just an expensive frustrating vaste of time and money at present.. its a shame cos i think they have ruined their own content here.

If you would be slightly above the average MMO player, you woudent say that Vet Dungeons are hard.

Step up and learn your class and learn to move you will see that the dungeons are really easy after 1 or 2 times.

Incredibly wrong.

I've played with every type of player, pugged thousands of dungeons and raids in many mmos, and you "average" player simply is not as good as you think. Or you have a very misplaced view of the dungeons difficulty, or cant understand the forums dozens of threads stating thats the case. (or a combo of all 3).

They are very hard for above average players in pugs.

I'd say yes, average players of moderate to high levels in organized guild groups can beat them all. But not easily, not without frusteration, and not at all in pugs.

And they NEVER become "really easy".

You can trilivize a dungeon through heavy repitition and practice to the point you never fail anymore. But that does not mean it's lost all of it's challenge. It means you've broken the mechanics by memorization. Not the same thing.

They are all still tough at V10. And I'd bet a ton of golds that if you somehow forgot all you learned along the way and tried them again in a full V10 group, who had no experience, youd sitll die a ton.

drlsd1985b16_ESO

Too hard?!!!!! come on! figure out mechanic and its a walkover.... Content is far to easy, im sorry but if you can't kill bosses, ur doing it wrong!!!

I am by no way a "hardcore player" i would call it casual.. +/- some hours, this is the 2nd MMORPG im playing.
the only thing i love about dungeons are they look gorgeous and i love the shock effect from bosses showing up out of nowhere, but really there are too few mechanics, when you can figure every dungeon out in 1 day, its just too easy.

Ive been into every VR Dungeon as of yesterday, and really i was so disappointed... In other games we used to spend months.. MONTHS on figuring out mechanics of the bosses, here we spend 1 hour figuring out one mechanic.. and thats it, its all the boss does.. Shoot some flameballs up in the air you can dodge, rest is just management from healer.

I want challenges, i want to feel like i conquered the *** world when i slay that boss... there is no screams of happiness in mumble when we down a boss anymore, cause its just that easy.

In other mmo's its always been about getting world firsts or 2nd or 3rd, or whatever for some of us who loves dungeons!! But here its about who gets it first within the hour the dungeon is release.


And i really love this game for so many thing, i love the graphics, i love the lore... I was hoping this was the game i was going to play for many many years, but now im not so sure after all. I will keep on playing, but if Craglorn is a major walkover like every other veteran content has been so far, ive gotta find a new game to play.
PvP is only gonna keep on being fun for so long, when you taken the same damn keeps 1000 times, its just not fun anymore.

I can't even belive people are complaining its too hard..

Enikka

If the group knows the mechanics you're fine. If not you're screwed.

And the group finder wouldn't exist if it wasn't intended to be possible to use it. Therefore pugging is in fact intended. It's just not really achievable in most groups right now.

As it currently stands the dungeons aren't worth the headache when I can craft better gear anyway. I'm going to wait for Craglorn. I prefer raiding anyway. But if dungeons stay the way they are it might be the only raid we get bc there won't be enough casuals left to help pay for another one.

Fact is people can shame on WoW all they want but they've still got millions of players after 10 years for a reason. They have content for everyone. ESO does not. I came to ESO from a heroic raiding guild in WoW so this elitist attitude is nothing new to me. Had a few in my own guild but here's a reality check. LFR, flex, normal raid weren't for us, it is for the ppl who can't handle the heroics. And it helped some learn so we did get a few new players due to those being available. The dungeons.... Yea I don't even remember the last time I ran a dungeon in WoW.

And some of you are talking about these dungeons as if they're raids. That's coming. Dungeons are a stepping stone to that. And the fact that most VR1's can't even do the dungeons available to them is a problem.

I don't know why I bother trying to explain this to some of you though bc a lot of you remind me of the idiots that claim they're 14/14H on their main then we bring em in on shamans and they die to tomb then blame lag.

Once you learn mechanics everything seems easy. But, waltzing around acting like something is face roll when you flat out know it really isn't just makes you look like an elitist prick.

drlsd1985b16_ESO

Enikka wrote: »

If the group knows the mechanics you're fine. If not you're screwed.

Once you learn mechanics everything seems easy. But, waltzing around acting like something is face roll when you flat out know it really isn't just makes you look like an elitist prick.

ok i can to some extent relate that in some pugs there will always be people who are not willing to learn or play as a team.

But every instanced dungeon 12 man / 4 man / 24 / 40 man is about coming together as a group... if you do not phantom the concept of bringing 4 people together that doesnt know eachother, i just dont see how you can make it work better with 12 people or more.

Its all about being nice to people, and come up with solutions to mechanics try it out and if it works, it works. .
But still most boss mechanics can be figured out "in fight" stay out of red circles.. go into them when they glow white? , thats not hard in anyway.
Call me a prick all you want

Ive always taken the time to write to people i play with, guild , pug or whatever... But a lot of people dont bother responding / chatting in games any more. And i think thats why they fail, not because its too hard.

And i based my experience from another mmo where hard content was 6 man groups.

Enikka

drlsd1985b16_ESO wrote: »

Enikka wrote: »

If the group knows the mechanics you're fine. If not you're screwed.

Once you learn mechanics everything seems easy. But, waltzing around acting like something is face roll when you flat out know it really isn't just makes you look like an elitist prick.

ok i can to some extent relate that in some pugs there will always be people who are not willing to learn or play as a team.

But every instanced dungeon 12 man / 4 man / 24 / 40 man is about coming together as a group... if you do not phantom the concept of bringing 4 people together that doesnt know eachother, i just dont see how you can make it work better with 12 people or more.

Its all about being nice to people, and come up with solutions to mechanics try it out and if it works, it works. .
But still most boss mechanics can be figured out "in fight" stay out of red circles.. go into them when they glow white? , thats not hard in anyway.
Call me a prick all you want

Ive always taken the time to write to people i play with, guild , pug or whatever... But a lot of people dont bother responding / chatting in games any more. And i think thats why they fail, not because its too hard.

And i based my experience from another mmo where hard content was 6 man groups.

I'm not talking about pugging Craglorn. That will be done in a guild group. So do try to pay attention to what I wrote before assuming I'm some random noob. Dungeons are not raids. And they should be puggable. They aren't.

Comparing 12 man to 4 man is apples to oranges. I expect difficult in the 12 mans and I welcome it. Also realize I personally have no issue with the current dungeon mechanics. I am acknowledging that dungeons however aren't MY content. Not once Craglorn releases.

I spent the better part of an hour last night explaining to a dude what was killing him. I attempted explaining to another group they had to kill one add to break chains b4 it finally picked the other guy and I did it my bloody self.

So stop making assumptions about the ppl defending this topic. I'm fully aware of how to overcome mechanics. I likely spend far more time researching my class and boss mechanics to see what tiny thing I can change than many. I've been in those #1 on the server raid groups. And I also know when to acknowledge when something is too difficult for the majority of the player base. There is no end game for casuals like this. Which is a $$$ problem in the future.

I know this is a foreign concept to many of you but some people playing at the top tier acknowledge the little guys deserve to have some fun too. And right now they're finding out that hitting max level was pretty much all that is offered to them. Not really a key selling point to retaining those subs now is it? Or do you actually think this game will thrive without them? If so I suggest you go take some courses on economics.

hamon

yes ive no problem with really hard mode dungeons for the folk who want to sped hours researching all the boss mechaics , watching videos and farming specific resist gear for certain fights etc.. i was that guy for 3 year in wow and everquest before that . Now i,m 42 and have a kid a full time job etc. i dont have the time nor want to devote the time to do all those things in order to be able to do a 4 man dungeon. i really enjoyed how we could pug the dugeons from 1-50 with a decent group. now in vet or "levelling plus" mode all thats taken away with a difficulty thats insane for pugs. bear in mind ineurope you could easily be in a group who cant even speak the same language so having to explain complicated boss mechanics would be an grim process..

have uber dugeons if you want but give us a reasonable dungeon mode to at least the skill points for completing it once.. i dont give a monkeys about farming them for loot.

Xanxarib16_ESO

you know what rift had harder dungeons then ESO have now, and rift had a raid out at release.

im sorry, but these dungeons are just to easy... you may want dungeons to be a stepping stone Enikka, but the fact is these dungeons are there endgame, craglorn is not out yet...

another point more and more testers have allready posted and showed us vids, of how there so called craglorn that should be for 4 man groups are done solo. many vet dungeons bosses can be done solo to, all in all craglorn that i hoped will be hard will infact not be hard at all, its a time trail so they want everyone to be able to complete it. and then work for the best time on the server.

my quess is everyone and there mother can complete the 12 man raid, the hard part will be the top 10 position, and you know what??? if this is true, i am probaly off to Wildstar! like many other raiders will be,

danteafk

What is this pathetic whine thread? Vet dungeons are far too easy. Learn to play and get the right players to complete these dungeons, scrub.

Wifeaggro13

RagePlug wrote: »

HashxBrowns wrote: »

You have to keep trying. after about 50 wipes my group completed the hardest vet dungeon. I like how hard it is.

50 WIPES?! I'm leaving after 10 max.

you would never survive in a hard game

hamon

danteafk wrote: »

What is this pathetic whine thread? Vet dungeons are far too easy. Learn to play and get the right players to complete these dungeons, scrub.

people who say things like this are the detrius of the MMO genre. trust me have a word with yourself. if you think thats how to communicate with other people.
possibly you're apparent lack of communication skills would be a factor in you having plenty of time to play games without the hindrance of jobs friends and girlfriends?..