DK solos Craglon Delve.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXdLy3KYmWc

This is meant for 4 players.... maybe they should be buffed a little ZOS, like when anchors where solable and then you buffed them

thunderstrikeb16_ESO

Really funny to see DK solo or duo so much group stuff... my Nightblade is sitting in a corner crying cause he dies nearly instantly fighting 3 questsmobs at once. I dont wanna call nerfs to DK but instead rethink your Nightblade concept ( tripple our weak heals maybe?)

Travail

He's gaining so much ultimate that at times he's overlapping 2 Standards. Now, I'm no developer, but I'd hazard a guess that this isn't working the way the devs intended. That's not to say he's exploiting, but rather that the ultimate mechanic in general has been implemented poorly.

No one should be keeping a 100% uptime on any ultimate. The way I understand it, ultimates were designed to be game-changing abilities, which are used sparingly (basically a mechanic ripped right out of MOBAs.) Being able to have your ultimate running for the entire duration of the fight makes your character far more powerful than the game is balanced for, which is a contributing factor in videos like this (or Vampires who are wrecking in Cyrodiil with Bat Swarm spam.)

They also need to look at the Talons ability, because it is one of the best CC's in the game. They either need to nerf it, or give other classes that same kind of functionality, because currently that skill alone allows Dragonknights to take on too many melee enemies at once. If this is how the game is designed, then design each class to be able to do it. If that's not how the game was intended (which seems more likely) then Talons needs a change.

The nature of CC probably could use a change across the board, specifically when dealing with AoE crowd control powers. I wouldn't mind seeing specific CC immunities given to NPCs for a short period after being affected by AoE crowd control. For example, after affecting an enemy with Talons, they become immune to "immobilize" for 10 seconds. They could still be knocked down, stunned, feared, mesmerized, etc.; but they would be immune to the affect of the ability which was last used on them. This would mean that no single power, and likely no single player, could keep an entire group of enemies locked down indefinitely.

Just like the ability to keep 100% uptime on ultimates is making some ultimate attacks too powerful, allowing everyone to take a single, spammable AoE CC attack is making those mechanics far too powerful as well. If they don't any cooldowns on abilities, then CC immunity might be the way to go.

-Travail.

Tr1n1ty

thunderstrikeb16_ESO wrote: »

Really funny to see DK solo or duo so much group stuff... my Nightblade is sitting in a corner crying cause he dies nearly instantly fighting 3 questsmobs at once. I dont wanna call nerfs to DK but instead rethink your Nightblade concept ( tripple our weak heals maybe?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVgYs3MFA4

yeah...

Wifeaggro13

Travail wrote: »

He's gaining so much ultimate that at times he's overlapping 2 Standards. Now, I'm no developer, but I'd hazard a guess that this isn't working the way the devs intended. That's not to say he's exploiting, but rather that the ultimate mechanic in general has been implemented poorly.

No one should be keeping a 100% uptime on any ultimate. The way I understand it, ultimates were designed to be game-changing abilities, which are used sparingly (basically a mechanic ripped right out of MOBAs.) Being able to have your ultimate running for the entire duration of the fight makes your character far more powerful than the game is balanced for, which is a contributing factor in videos like this (or Vampires who are wrecking in Cyrodiil with Bat Swarm spam.)

They also need to look at the Talons ability, because it is one of the best CC's in the game. They either need to nerf it, or give other classes that same kind of functionality, because currently that skill alone allows Dragonknights to take on too many melee enemies at once. If this is how the game is designed, then design each class to be able to do it. If that's not how the game was intended (which seems more likely) then Talons needs a change.

The nature of CC probably could use a change across the board, specifically when dealing with AoE crowd control powers. I wouldn't mind seeing specific CC immunities given to NPCs for a short period after being affected by AoE crowd control. For example, after affecting an enemy with Talons, they become immune to "immobilize" for 10 seconds. They could still be knocked down, stunned, feared, mesmerized, etc.; but they would be immune to the affect of the ability which was last used on them. This would mean that no single power, and likely no single player, could keep an entire group of enemies locked down indefinitely.

Just like the ability to keep 100% uptime on ultimates is making some ultimate attacks too powerful, allowing everyone to take a single, spammable AoE CC attack is making those mechanics far too powerful as well. If they don't any cooldowns on abilities, then CC immunity might be the way to go.

-Travail.

they just need to increase the diffculty DK's are not this overpowered monster as you say. any class can don heavy armor and CC the daylights out things. in all honesty im a DK and i rarely use DT as my staple CC in VR dungeons DT is a massive cost for what it does. i use Volcanic rune. honestly as far as AOE damage goes DK is very lack luster only a nightblade would be worse but they do way bigger ST damage then a DK.
What your upset about is the survivablity of a DK . you take that away and the class will suck . But being able to spam a banner is wrong . you will see adjusments on the ultimate returns across the boark DK is not the only one that has this spammable ultimate because of the return on abilities. As far as diminshing returns on CC. ? its the game design there are only two taunts in game .you take thataway and actually group mechanics will suffer greatly . trash pulls are already just a massive eye strain . just about all the classes lack any real tools to control the battlefield. Just make the delves harder. what you are posting is doable with any class.

Travail

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

they just need to increase the diffculty DK's are not this overpowered mosster as you say an class can don heavy armor and CC the daylights out things. in all honesty im a DK and i rarely use DT as my staple CC in VR dungeons. i use Volcanic rune. honestly as far as AOE damage goes DK is very lack luster only a nightblade would be worse but they do way bigger ST damage then a DK.
What your upset about is the survivablity of a DK . you take that away and the class will suck . But being able to spam a banner . you will see adjusments on the ultimate returns across the boark DK is not the only one that has this spammable ultimate because of the return on abilities.

Talons is in the situation of having one of the largest radii of any CC in the game (perhaps the largest?) Volcanic Rune may be a more powerful CC (Talons doesn't do much against casters, obviously) but it can rarely affect so many enemies at once. That said, Volcanic Rune would fall under the "AoE CC" category that I referred to in my post, and so would also undergo the same change as Talons. Anything affected by Volcanic Rune would become immune to further Volcanic Rune CC for a few seconds, so you couldn't spam the Rune as a win button. The point is to prevent any one player from being able to lock down an entire mob pack indefinitely; not just DK's, and not just while using Talons. If locking down a mob is a tactic the developers wish to make available to us, it should require group coordination.

As for the Dragonknight Standard ultimate, I agree that the problem lies with the mechanics of ultimates (and ultimate generation), not the Standard specifically. I like the Standard; it's powerful, and it should be. The problem is with being able to keep it on the ground for the entire duration of the fight. Nerfing the Standard itself (increasing the ultimate cost or decreasing the duration) would be the wrong move. If you don't address the larger problems with how the character in the video is gaining that much ultimate over time, players will simply find another ultimate to abuse.

-Travail.

yorzo

Travail wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

they just need to increase the diffculty DK's are not this overpowered mosster as you say an class can don heavy armor and CC the daylights out things. in all honesty im a DK and i rarely use DT as my staple CC in VR dungeons. i use Volcanic rune. honestly as far as AOE damage goes DK is very lack luster only a nightblade would be worse but they do way bigger ST damage then a DK.
What your upset about is the survivablity of a DK . you take that away and the class will suck . But being able to spam a banner . you will see adjusments on the ultimate returns across the boark DK is not the only one that has this spammable ultimate because of the return on abilities.

Talons is in the situation of having one of the largest radii of any CC in the game (perhaps the largest?) Volcanic Rune may be a more powerful CC (Talons doesn't do much against casters, obviously) but it can rarely affect so many enemies at once. That said, Volcanic Rune would fall under the "AoE CC" category that I referred to in my post, and so would also undergo the same change as Talons. Anything affected by Volcanic Rune would become immune to further Volcanic Rune CC for a few seconds, so you couldn't spam the Rune as a win button. The point is to prevent any one player from being able to lock down an entire mob pack indefinitely; not just DK's, and not just while using Talons. If locking down a mob is a tactic the developers wish to make available to us, it should require group coordination.

As for the Dragonknight Standard ultimate, I agree that the problem lies with the mechanics of ultimates (and ultimate generation), not the Standard specifically. I like the Standard; it's powerful, and it should be. The problem is with being able to keep it on the ground for the entire duration of the fight. Nerfing the Standard itself (increasing the ultimate cost or decreasing the duration) would be the wrong move. If you don't address the larger problems with how the character in the video is gaining that much ultimate over time, players will simply find another ultimate to abuse.

-Travail.

As a DK with a similar build, i'm fairly certain if they nerfed ultimate's to a cool down of around 2minutes (maybe less) this would be very hard to do, do to the fact of running out of resources like magicka and stamina. Also I think they should increase the difficulty of this fight. I can see a group of 4 with no DK's face rolling this fight it looks so easy. Instead of nerfing CC all together, maybe make fights like this one unique in the sense that they can only be affected by a stasis ability once every few seconds, kind of like you said.

Malediktus

maybe no cooldown, increasing the ultimate cost a bit (lets say 20% for a start) would be good enough

Wifeaggro13

Travail wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

they just need to increase the diffculty DK's are not this overpowered mosster as you say an class can don heavy armor and CC the daylights out things. in all honesty im a DK and i rarely use DT as my staple CC in VR dungeons. i use Volcanic rune. honestly as far as AOE damage goes DK is very lack luster only a nightblade would be worse but they do way bigger ST damage then a DK.
What your upset about is the survivablity of a DK . you take that away and the class will suck . But being able to spam a banner . you will see adjusments on the ultimate returns across the boark DK is not the only one that has this spammable ultimate because of the return on abilities.

Talons is in the situation of having one of the largest radii of any CC in the game (perhaps the largest?) Volcanic Rune may be a more powerful CC (Talons doesn't do much against casters, obviously) but it can rarely affect so many enemies at once. That said, Volcanic Rune would fall under the "AoE CC" category that I referred to in my post, and so would also undergo the same change as Talons. Anything affected by Volcanic Rune would become immune to further Volcanic Rune CC for a few seconds, so you couldn't spam the Rune as a win button. The point is to prevent any one player from being able to lock down an entire mob pack indefinitely; not just DK's, and not just while using Talons. If locking down a mob is a tactic the developers wish to make available to us, it should require group coordination.

As for the Dragonknight Standard ultimate, I agree that the problem lies with the mechanics of ultimates (and ultimate generation), not the Standard specifically. I like the Standard; it's powerful, and it should be. The problem is with being able to keep it on the ground for the entire duration of the fight. Nerfing the Standard itself (increasing the ultimate cost or decreasing the duration) would be the wrong move. If you don't address the larger problems with how the character in the video is gaining that much ultimate over time, players will simply find another ultimate to abuse.

-Travail.

you do understand spamm

nG cc is the way mechanics work in Vr dungeons. With out that you would not get past many of the trash pulls to even get to a boss.im fine if they nrf cc. But they would have to nerf every trash pull and multi mob encou ter in th vr content

Ysne58

So one person has solo'd this. Doesn't mean everybody can. Lawl has worked really hard to get to the point that he is at in game and knows his skills inside and out. At least someone is managing to test stuff in PTS and hopefully catch some bugs.

Malediktus

Ysne58 wrote: »

So one person has solo'd this. Doesn't mean everybody can. Lawl has worked really hard to get to the point that he is at in game and knows his skills inside and out. At least someone is managing to test stuff in PTS and hopefully catch some bugs.

Doesnt matter if only one has soloed. Group content should never be able to soloed unless you outleveled and outgeared it. If you can solo group content at its intended level range it means its far too easy for a group.

Maverick827

They're already looking into this. It's most likely an unintended interaction of abilities causing unintended ultimate gain, but since everyone keeps whining about DKs they'll probably just nerf all of their abilities into the ground anyway.

tordr86b16_ESO

He is soloing it because ZOS is lazy. Instead of throwing huge nerfs down at eryone, they should instead design their boss mechanics so that you must have a group of 3 or 4 to kill it. Having soft enrage timers also defeats this issue with people soloing content that was meant to be played with a group.

So please, ask for better designed boss mechanics instead of crying for nerfs. If not then the DK will be rendered useless. Because right now, they seem to be acting on everything this forum has to say, which is bad.

All I can say to end this post is: Enjoy playing ESO without tanks if you wish ZOS to nerf them into oblivion.

Minsc

OP, instead of creating multiple threads for the same topic it will probably be more beneficial to stick with your original thread http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/92624/dk-solos-craglon-delve where the player on the video has answered to some of the ignorant things that people say ( either because of lack of knowledge for how the game works , or because they have their own agenda )

Silestia

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

He is soloing it because ZOS is lazy. Instead of throwing huge nerfs down at eryone, they should instead design their boss mechanics so that you must have a group of 3 or 4 to kill it. Having soft enrage timers also defeats this issue with people soloing content that was meant to be played with a group.

So please, ask for better designed boss mechanics instead of crying for nerfs. If not then the DK will be rendered useless. Because right now, they seem to be acting on everything this forum has to say, which is bad.

All I can say to end this post is: Enjoy playing ESO without tanks if you wish ZOS to nerf them into oblivion.

I do not want to nerf DKs to oblivion, I play one along with my sorc, but I would like to make them less of a one man army that can tank heal & DPS at the same time through content other classes need a group to attempt.

As it stands right now they are a little overpowered and any mature player will accept that they need to be toned down a little so that their abilities are about the same power level as the other classes in order to keep game balance.

Axer

Yea looks way too easy, hope they buff it a ton.

re: DKs:
Yea they are very slightly OP'd.

Just in a general sense though, because they are very good at EVERYTHING.

For any mmorpg to be fun/balanced, each class should have a role they excel, and are really the best at. Currently that's not really the case as DKs rule too many:

- Best AoE DPS (Synergy of destro impulse + dk fire class abilities beats everything else in the game by far)
- Best CC class (As shown in the video, burning talons is extremely effective. No other class gets any CC ANYTHING near this magnitude. Only better is sorcs antimagic, but being an ultimate with a high enough cost that it can't be spammed, it's not as effective).
- Best pvp class. (Can pull others off towers, can tank insane amounts of players due to good block mitigation, synergy with blackswarm, and high general dps)

And they aren't bad at any other roles either:
- Top tier tank. Compared to a Templar, they are fairly evenly matched. Both are very effective.
- Effective healer. Since the best heals in the game by far are simply resto staff abilities, no class has any real advantage, the fact a DK can toss down a standard while healing puts him ahead though in many cases. Sorcerers are argueably better sustained thanks to dark exchange, and templars burst due to cleansing ritual, but not by any large margin. In 90% of fights, a DK doing it would simply be better as dps would be up.
- Great single target dps. Fairly evenly matched with templar and sorcerer, though they have way more options about how to do it (Templar just spams spears, Sorcersr just rotate 2 abilities, DKs can have many that work well)
- Effective ranged dps (mainly the synergy of fire damage spec'd with destro staff)

Where as other class are simply plain bad at certain roles:
- Templars and Nightblades are plain crap at aoe dps. Not a single skill they have covers enough range or deals enough damage to put in a dent. (excluding ultimates that cost FAR more then DKs). Even sorcerers aren't all that greatmhaving only slightly better mana management to spam impulse more then others, but at a lower effectiveness then DKs. (and Templar and Nightblade can spam it too, but it's pretty silly we all boil down to 1 skill due to game unbalance)
- Templars and Nightblades have weak ranged dps. The entire dawns wrath tree for example is so bad, it could be deleted and the class wouldn't be much different (minus the ultimate - which is on par with DKs, but cost vastly more ultimate and requires party members to synergize it).
- Nightblades and Sorcerers can tank, but they are unarguably worse at it then templar/dk.
- Nightblades are sadly just bad at everything. There one claim to fame is argueably an exploit.


No saying DK needs any nerfs. Really just the other classes, and especially weapon skills that synergize with said classes need buffs.
EG:
-Give templars more synergy with resto staff. Allow their restoring light passive to apply to restoration abilities so they aren't weaker healers then DK/Sorcerers.
- Massivley buff the Dawns Wrath tree so templars have SOME option at ranged dps. (Sorcerers should be better imo, but not to the degree they are atm)
-Massively buff Mages Fury or Daedric Mines so sorcerers can actaully compete with DKs for best aoe dps, and aren't always forced to just spam impulse at a lower effectiveness.
- Make tanking more challenging, allowing Templar tanks to outshine DKs more by a couple tiny tweaks:
--- Allow us to disable smart targeting of heals (Especially honor the dead, as it's a templars main ability that can outshine a DKs heal, but far too often heals a party member resulting in a dead tank)
--- Have melee bosses hit even harder, so the extra block mitigaiton a templar has matters. Maybe also buff their passive to also lower block stamina cost.
- Massively buff all melee weapon skills, and slightly buff nightblades synergy with them by lower their damage penalty of syphoning strikes, allowing them to be at least competitive with magicka builds, as single target dps stamina spec builds. (Currently they are laughably behind, as is anyone who specs in stamina in general).

RagePlug

Tr1n1ty wrote: »

thunderstrikeb16_ESO wrote: »

Really funny to see DK solo or duo so much group stuff... my Nightblade is sitting in a corner crying cause he dies nearly instantly fighting 3 questsmobs at once. I dont wanna call nerfs to DK but instead rethink your Nightblade concept ( tripple our weak heals maybe?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVgYs3MFA4

yeah...

Haha. But yeah, there are some other people, like you know, the normal ones, who want to play their class by the name is given, like if i would play a NB, i would play it with a bow or dual weild...

Chirru

Maverick827 wrote: »

They're already looking into this. It's most likely an unintended interaction of abilities causing unintended ultimate gain, but since everyone keeps whining about DKs they'll probably just nerf all of their abilities into the ground anyway.

point one
Well, mt DK is far from the level of the one in this video. Neither is my player skill as good as the player's in the video. I am warrant to say that 90% of all players with the same DK build...even playing the very same char, would have not made it.

point two
having been on these forums from Beta on I have read complaining and crying and calls to Nerf abilities from EVERY class there is and even from some classes that do not exist.

point three
STOP it... for the moment the Dev's do Nerf an ability there is a Chorus of players crying exactly the opposite. You who now cry the loudest that a certain ability is WAY too powerful are the same who later will cry that a certain other ability has been WAY too much reduced.

point four
Calling to Nerf certain abilities just because one player has managed to do something that YOU can not do is a silly game (in my opinion) some (mostly PvP) players play to mess with the minds of the community.It is a simple as that.

point five
heed my words and prophecy. If the Dev's really would implement the suggestions made in this post there would be another post much longer than this one about how bad the changes are.

Be careful what you wish for... You might get it...And what Then?

Happy Nerf-ing.

killedbyping

I dont really get it, whats Craglorn Delve is ? I thought Craglorn was NOT released yet.

Crescent

Tr1n1ty wrote: »

thunderstrikeb16_ESO wrote: »

Really funny to see DK solo or duo so much group stuff... my Nightblade is sitting in a corner crying cause he dies nearly instantly fighting 3 questsmobs at once. I dont wanna call nerfs to DK but instead rethink your Nightblade concept ( tripple our weak heals maybe?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVgYs3MFA4

yeah...

Cool, so you can exploit shoddy game mechanics like resto staff mana returns and animation cancelling along with stealth spam to avoid AI attack activation.

Most solo's I've seen have been resto staff solos, probably the mana return from heavy attacks will need to get nerfed.

Xanxarib16_ESO

i love this, you cry over a DK like this can solo a 4man content but he could do it much much better then what he is doing.

1st. he is in cloth armor, heavy armor would make him a much better tank.
2nd. he's using DW weapons, SnS would make him sooo much better.
3rd he uses the shield buff... Ash cloud give 30% miss chance for 18 sec. a much better tool


anyway they will change AoE skills to affect no more then 6 or 8 targets that is a nerf. they will make sure our breath only affect 3 targets. thats a huge nerf. we wont gain as much hp from it anymore



but the biggest problem here is that everyone can gain ultimate while they have an ultimate running. they should have fixed this a long time ago to if you have an ultimate running you cant generate any ultimate! this will fix it...

Wifeaggro13

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

i love this, you cry over a DK like this can solo a 4man content but he could do it much much better then what he is doing.

1st. he is in cloth armor, heavy armor would make him a much better tank.
2nd. he's using DW weapons, SnS would make him sooo much better.
3rd he uses the shield buff... Ash cloud give 30% miss chance for 18 sec. a much better tool


anyway they will change AoE skills to affect no more then 6 or 8 targets that is a nerf. they will make sure our breath only affect 3 targets. thats a huge nerf. we wont gain as much hp from it anymore



but the biggest problem here is that everyone can gain ultimate while they have an ultimate running. they should have fixed this a long time ago to if you have an ultimate running you cant generate any ultimate! this will fix it...

problem with nerfing AOE's is the ridiculous amount of trash and adds this shortsighted development team put in with no really effective tools to deal with them.

Crescent

Yeah, if they nerf AoE they will need to nerf the amount of mobs that can take off 1/4-1/3 of your HP in one hit.

And some of the boss tells in this game are way too late for how fast the massive damage skill activates.

Xanxarib16_ESO

impulse spam comes to my mind, AoE cc come to my mind, trash is not a problem.

PvE its still okey they nerf the AoE target limit, PvP thats another problem they just made zergs a 100% win in PvP... the devs are clueless what they are doing to there own game.

Arpheus

For immobilize/root make it so that 15% or 20% of total HP damage taken breakes the root. That way Talons are properly nerfed to not trivialize PvE content and also are fine for PvP.
The other option for that is immunity to immobilize once you got immobilized. This should also affect PvE mobs so that you can't trivialize PvE content. Perma CC makes content really easy. At least you should use different CC's instead of being able to spam the same ability over and over and not be touched.

The ultimate gain is a problem when AoE comes into play. Either make it so that per hit/cast you can only gain ultimate once no matter if you hit one or 6 targets or like Xanxarib16_ESO said make it so that you can't gain ultimate as long as an ultimate is running.
If these two are not an option decrease the duration of the DK ulti from 15 to 6 seconds because especially PvE mobs are too stupid to stay out of its area of effect.

mwsacto_ESO

thunderstrikeb16_ESO wrote: »

Really funny to see DK solo or duo so much group stuff... my Nightblade is sitting in a corner crying cause he dies nearly instantly fighting 3 questsmobs at once. I dont wanna call nerfs to DK but instead rethink your Nightblade concept ( tripple our weak heals maybe?)

I guess you missed nightblade tanks then and the things they can pull off. Stop with the nerf dk stuff.

Kelsaik

So.. i'm @PTS and to be honest, it's not hard to solo bosses atm.

Ofc you will be able to solo stuff like this, but the problem is that this isnt a DK only problem. I can solo this with my Mage aswell. Open world bosses / dungeons are pretty easy atm.

But thats why we test stuff like this. And most of the time they listen to us and change things. There are tons of posts about the difficulty @PTS atm, and as they already said they probably gonna change it a bit untill release.

cbbouletb16_ESO

DK needs nerfs on almost every single ability.
Most notably: Dragon's Blood, Reflective Scale, Dark Talons, Standard of Might
And the passive Battle Roar.

These skills/passive in particular are what makes them so stupidly overpowered. Far beyond every other class.

the.dzeneralb16_ESO

Well it's not a secret that classes in this game need work, but I wouldn't blame ZoS. Given the freedom this game allows with weapons, classes,skills etc... There are way to many variables to have had tested all possibilities (trust me, do the math).

With that said, obviously there are going to be issues regarding classes, dungeons, soloing content, exploits, etc... These are delicate things and there really isnt a magically 'off/on switch' to fix these things.

Sihnfahl

the.dzeneralb16_ESO wrote: »

There are way to many variables to have had tested all possibilities (trust me, do the math).

Well, the dual issue can be attributed to erroneous stacking of buffs (buffs being multiplicative instead of additive can really knock calculations for a loop) and from folks being very, very good at seeing how skills from different lines tie together.

That's why you listen to the top beta and PTR folks, because you know that once ONE person works out a 'killer combination', other folks will ... and that'll wreck any intended class balance once it becomes widespread. (I mean, really, if you pay attention to the vamp DKs in Cyrodiil, most of them do the same rotation and show 0 ingenuity - and have 0 idea what to do when someone counters them other than run away. You think they had the insight to see the combination of passives and actives?)

the.dzeneralb16_ESO

Sihnfahl wrote: »

the.dzeneralb16_ESO wrote: »

There are way to many variables to have had tested all possibilities (trust me, do the math).

Well, the dual issue can be attributed to erroneous stacking of buffs (buffs being multiplicative instead of additive can really knock calculations for a loop) and from folks being very, very good at seeing how skills from different lines tie together.

That's why you listen to the top beta and PTR folks, because you know that once ONE person works out a 'killer combination', other folks will ... and that'll wreck any intended class balance once it becomes widespread. (I mean, really, if you pay attention to the vamp DKs in Cyrodiil, most of them do the same rotation and show 0 ingenuity - and have 0 idea what to do when someone counters them other than run away. You think they had the insight to see the combination of passives and actives?)

Don't get me wrong, I agree with DK's needing nerfs, or the rest of us needing buffs (especially sorcerers from what I hear). I'm aware of the power of DK's due to PvPing and asking around on guild chat to high vr ranked DK's.

I myself play a nightblade and recently, I've seen how much more powerful DK's are than most people, especially in PvP. I'm just saying that balancing a game isn't as simple as most people think it is. While I would like the balancing to come sooner, but ultimately I'm going to assume that a large company, full of teams, that have developed tons of games and have worked on this for years, probably know what theyre doing more so than most people.

Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't have input or that it's bad (people should constantly give them feedback and what not), I'm just saying that chances are, they probably know what theyre doing.