Fix our Stealth! [Nightblade Shadow Cloak]

RookBorn

As I play purely Nightblade, there has been quite a lot of bugs associated with our class. I am generally fine with this - I know it will get fixed as quickly as possible.

However, there is one ability, one spell that makes us who we are - it's our ability to re-engage and reset a fight with Shadow Cloak. Right now? DoT damage breaks our cloak. I find this to be incredibly annoying as it should not break stealth - it is not directly from us. It is from our effects of our weapon, or our Strife.

Please Zenimax, don't gimp our class because DoT damage counts towards breaking our cloak - this is practically the reason why we die in fights so often. I don't know if it is intended, but it is incredibly annoying when my Strife DoTs take me out of the well-needed engage and get me killed.

I hope other Nightblades can relate as it's incredibly frustrating as a stealthy for our invis to fall off quicker than expected.

To any others that are saying that we don't need the extra time or we would be OP - Magelight takes us out of stealth instantly, our one skill that allows us to gain some distance from a fight. Please don't keep our class nerfed!

neocomab16_ESO

stealth is utterly broken. When it comes to classes there are some weird things going on.

Sorc have the most OP escape in the game, called blink.
DKs have the most ridiculous self healing in the game. Get from 30% to 100 in a blink of an eye.
Templars have great burst AND get some awesome healings.

NB has ...well, in combat stealth which doesnt work properly. If cloak would let you resneak again no matter you are in combat or not ..that would be something. But no. You spend 350 magicka for 2.5 secs stealth which breaks when you switch bars, which breaks for no reason, which breaks when you sprint plus doesnt apply properly to surprising attacks. It is broken.

tplink3r1

simple, use dark cloak morph.

RookBorn

tplink3r1 wrote: »

simple, use dark cloak morph.

I have the Morph already - Shadowy Disguise and it still does the same thing.

cubansyrusb16_ESO

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

stealth is utterly broken. When it comes to classes there are some weird things going on.

Sorc have the most OP escape in the game, called blink.
DKs have the most ridiculous self healing in the game. Get from 30% to 100 in a blink of an eye.
Templars have great burst AND get some awesome healings.

NB has ...well, in combat stealth which doesnt work properly. If cloak would let you resneak again no matter you are in combat or not ..that would be something. But no. You spend 350 magicka for 2.5 secs stealth which breaks when you switch bars, which breaks for no reason, which breaks when you sprint plus doesnt apply properly to surprising attacks. It is broken.

That requires a full bar of mana and its not 30%-100% its more like 40%-80%

Samadhi

RookBorn wrote: »

...DoT damage breaks our cloak. I find this to be incredibly annoying as it should not break stealth - it is not directly from us. It is from our effects of our weapon, or our Strife.
...

This issue is really strange to me.
DoT from Siphoning skills (Crippling Grasp) breaks stealth.
DoT from Bleed caused by Cleave with Two Handed breaks stealth.
DoT from Poison caused by Poison Injection with Bow does not break stealth.

That poison does not break stealth inclines me to think that this is an issue in the code rather than intentional.
I put in a /bug report about it yesterday; I suggest doing the same.

RookBorn

Not only this, but also even crouching in Shadow Cloak breaks it... now that's not intentional.

Gwarok

DoT damage breaks our cloak.

And it should.

Blink, on the other hand, horribly OP and needs to be seriously looked at (first?).

RookBorn

Gwarok wrote: »

DoT damage breaks our cloak.

And it should.

Why should it work as that? That's like saying that your Burning Talons shouldn't root. 'working as intended'

Hadan_of_Rift

tplink3r1 wrote: »

simple, use dark cloak morph.

You would think so but that skill is busted and doesn't remove most DoT attacks

adesanawa

Speaking of Shadow Cloaks, is it intentional that they didn't apply the stealth opener damage bonus?
Not only that, it doesn't trigger from other out-of-stealth skills, such as Camouflaged Hunter. (Hits for x amount of magic damage when hitting from stealth) Which should also proc with Shadow Cloak.

I'm starting to feel that the Devs didn't bother with Shadow Cloak's synergy other than Veiled Strike

RookBorn

adesanawa wrote: »

Speaking of Shadow Cloaks, is it intentional that they didn't apply the stealth opener damage bonus?
Not only that, it doesn't trigger from other out-of-stealth skills, such as Camouflaged Hunter. (Hits for x amount of magic damage when hitting from stealth) Which should also proc with Shadow Cloak.

I'm starting to feel that the Devs didn't bother with Shadow Cloak's synergy other than Veiled Strike

It only works if you're crouching

adesanawa

But you're automatically crouching when using Shadow Cloak...
And yes I've tried pressing crouch again after cloaking, the camera lowers like when you sneak, but still it doesn't proc Camouflaged Hunter nor the Sneak bonus

Kratork

also the spell (shadowy disguise) cost 300 something to cast but if you don't have at least 716 magicka it will not cast
Look this thread for info

Yelgis

No you aren't automatically crouching in Shadow Cloak. You are autmatically "Hidden" i.e invisible. That does not count as stealth (of the crouching kind) though.

You can actually hit crouch after cloaking. It doesn't break it but you also have no real indicator that you are in true crouch status since cloak makes you hidden.

This works outside of combat and can be tested. First hit cloak and just let it wear off. You won't be stealthed. Now hit cloak and then crouch and you will exit the cloak crouched. You can also start crouching then cloak and it works the same.

I am not sure this works in combat for the purposes of things like Camo Hunter.


Also Dark Cloak does remove dots. It only removes damage over time effects on your person though. So if you are on fire, poisoned etc it will remove those making it so the damage doesn't break your cloak. What you are confusing with it not breaking dots is that it does not break dots you have casted on other enemies. This includes burning, Cripple, Agony etc. If you cast one of those then cloak the very next time the tick on an enemy your cloak will break because the game attributes that damage to you and doing damage from invis breaks it.

Btw, Strife is not a dot. It is a direct damage spell that causes a HoT on you. It has not dot to break cloak and the hot part of it certainly does not.

The simplest way to make sure your cloak never breaks is to only use direct damage spells. That means no Path of Darkness, Cripple, Agony, or any of our ultimates that have a duration and do damage (Veiled Blades and the stun one that leashes a mob). Also take the Dark Cloak morph to remove any damage over time when you go into it. If you do all this it means you have no skills causing dots on enemies to break your own cloak and that the cloak itself will remove dots on yourself so they don't break it. I never have issues with my cloak breaking early using a setup like this.

Samadhi

Yelgis wrote: »

...
Also Dark Cloak does remove dots. It only removes damage over time effects on your person though. So if you are on fire, poisoned etc it will remove those making it so the damage doesn't break your cloak. What you are confusing with it not breaking dots is that it does not break dots you have casted on other enemies. This includes burning, Cripple, Agony etc. If you cast one of those then cloak the very next time the tick on an enemy your cloak will break because the game attributes that damage to you and doing damage from invis breaks it.
...

I've been playing around with this glitch and the skill seems really specific about which ticks break it.
DoTs from our Siphoning line break it.
The bleed damage from Two Handed Cleave skill breaks it.

The bleed that procs from axes with the Two Handed passive Heavy Weapons does not break it.
The poison from Bow's Poison Injection skill does not break it.
The burning effect from a fire enchanted weapon does not break it.

They really need to fix this skill so that our DoTs don't break it.

Murmeltier

Pls, think about this before you say it is broken. Maybe the Skill doesnt work perfect he should never allow you to disengange and leave a Fight into Stealth->Sneak.

Scenario: Nightblade attacks another Player in a Group and kills him fast, nice Work. Then he activates Stealth and runs away to go into the Sneak. The Rest off the Group doesnt have a Chance to get him and avenge the Death off the Groupmember. The most other Classes except (Sorcerer?) cant do that and will die.

The Stealth doesnt work here like in other Games. I think it is more the Wish off some Players who wants to kill other PPL in PvP and can get away without revenge. Then they dont need to jump off a Cliff (Ingame)) if they are hunted down, because they go insane if an other Player wins.

Every Skill in Game is in Work, the Game is new but i never hope Zenimax hear to the PPL who only wants an Easymode vs other Players because they know how this works from other Games.

Does Stealth Needs some Work, yes it does, like other Skills too.

MFG Murmeltier.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

I notice when I cloak in pvp ALOT of the time people are able to just keep shooting me as if im not even invisible. Also when I actually escape someone it takes like 30 seconds before it lets me restealth. On top of both those issues it seems whenever I cloak to try and use surprise attack it never stuns the enemy even if they arent immune. Could they be blocking it even though im hitting them in the back? Idk but it pretty much ruins the class and makes it pointless to use in pvp. Its a shame cause its awesome in pve.

Obscure

I've mentioned this in other threads but felt I'd toss it in on this one too.

Corn Flower + Wormwood + any level water you happen to have = 20m detection radius

Even if your doing everything right and not DoTing enemies, removing DoTs from yourself, staying out of AoE's, etc. anyone with these potions will just turn your Invisibility off and it will stay off as long as your in 20m of them for the base 10 second potion duration. Cast it again? Litterally just a waste of magicka. This is likely what you were running into
@xxslam48xxb14_ESO when trying to go invisible to disengage.

Stealth has entirely too many counter mechanics, and invisibility is just a crappier version as is doesn't even trigger stealth attack bonuses. Bottom line: don't use it in PvP, you will try to rely on it and it will get you killed.

RookBorn

Murmeltier wrote: »

Pls, think about this before you say it is broken. Maybe the Skill doesnt work perfect he should never allow you to disengange and leave a Fight into Stealth->Sneak.

Scenario: Nightblade attacks another Player in a Group and kills him fast, nice Work. Then he activates Stealth and runs away to go into the Sneak. The Rest off the Group doesnt have a Chance to get him and avenge the Death off the Groupmember. The most other Classes except (Sorcerer?) cant do that and will die.

The Stealth doesnt work here like in other Games. I think it is more the Wish off some Players who wants to kill other PPL in PvP and can get away without revenge. Then they dont need to jump off a Cliff (Ingame)) if they are hunted down, because they go insane if an other Player wins.

Every Skill in Game is in Work, the Game is new but i never hope Zenimax hear to the PPL who only wants an Easymode vs other Players because they know how this works from other Games.

Does Stealth Needs some Work, yes it does, like other Skills too.

MFG Murmeltier.

I agree with that many skills need work. I don't want the skill to be used as an instagib where it resets our killing capability and allows us to wipe a 5 man team on our own. Skill should still be involved, I agree. But at the moment there's too much time until we can stealth and do good damage as a burst.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Obscure wrote: »

I've mentioned this in other threads but felt I'd toss it in on this one too.

Corn Flower + Wormwood + any level water you happen to have = 20m detection radius

Even if your doing everything right and not DoTing enemies, removing DoTs from yourself, staying out of AoE's, etc. anyone with these potions will just turn your Invisibility off and it will stay off as long as your in 20m of them for the base 10 second potion duration. Cast it again? Litterally just a waste of magicka. This is likely what you were running into
@xxslam48xxb14_ESO when trying to go invisible to disengage.

Stealth has entirely too many counter mechanics, and invisibility is just a crappier version as is doesn't even trigger stealth attack bonuses. Bottom line: don't use it in PvP, you will try to rely on it and it will get you killed.

Ah cool I like counters(thats how you know your game cares about balance) its just why is stealth so heavily countered yet other things in this game have like no counter. Magelight should have been enough counters to stealth alone, if even one person uses this move all nightblades can go *** themselves. Something tells me one of the devs hates getting back stabbed! I feel like if a whole class can be hard countered by 1 skill/potion then vamps should get hard countered in the same way by fighters guild skills, but thats not the case now is it? They are just a skill line too and us nightblades are a whole entire class. Its pretty much non sense to play a steal..... a nightblade in pvp, because really what can we do thats different then any other class if we cant cloak?

pecheckler

Started a nightblade last week. Im finding shadow cloak and both morphs still completely broken. AFTER A YEAR IT'S NOT FIXED?!

Panda244

I'm sure @Cody can explain if he hasn't already.

Nightblades.

U NO GET CLOAK! NO CLOAK! NO NO NO NO!



It'd be absolutely worthless in 1.6 anyway, revealing flare prevents you from entering stealth for 5s, and you die in those 5s.

7788b14_ESO

pecheckler wrote: »

Started a nightblade last week. Im finding shadow cloak and both morphs still completely broken. AFTER A YEAR IT'S NOT FIXED?!

+1

Cody

Panda244 wrote: »

I'm sure @Cody can explain if he hasn't already.

Nightblades.

U NO GET CLOAK! NO CLOAK! NO NO NO NO!



It'd be absolutely worthless in 1.6 anyway, revealing flare prevents you from entering stealth for 5s, and you die in those 5s.

i think I may have commented on this thread already; but whether I have or have not, let me educate all those poor NBs who think cloak is a fully functioning ability.

It is not.

It is only good for the dark cloak morph; which removes DoT effects(i mainly take it to remove those hard hitting DoTs from oils.)

the intended main function works <50% of the time. DO not use it if your only intention is invisibility; you will be heavily disappointed

Kattemynte

Another thing I noticed with the cloak is that when I normally sneak and attack an npc, right now I crit for 14k. When I sneak and use the cloak before attacking, that attack is then only 4k. While already in combat I can use the cloak as a quick stun and auto crit but why am I doing 10k less damage with it?

deepseamk20b14_ESO

High level mobs are not confused by cloak, so they see through it. I use dark cloak all the time and its rare I have issues. However last night I noticed degeneration damage tick was taking me out of stelath. Did it only during heavy lag. I'm not sure if there is any corilation.

TheBucket

I dont have issues with cloak. I dont use it right on top of enemies though. I LoS and try to gain distance.

It also has a nice armor buff.

Morphine

I have a bit less than 200 hours of play time and was playing mostly NB since i was enjoying the Stealth class in all previous TES titles but i have a feeling that NB in ESO needs to try much harder than others to stay effective. I can understand that but what bothers me is time i need for all that work.

Going stealth should be a bit easier and faster, i am not talking about dmg output but at all. In group dungeons most of my group members kill a lot more just because i am slow when preparing my stealth attacks and all i can do is stay in background and fire a few shots while my group clear the room.

So skills like Shadow Cloak and its morphs should work faster and entering the sneak mode should be a bit faster. If that means nerf on other sides i will gladly accept it. btw. it would be much easier if Shadow cloak make you crouch instead of just going invisible.

edit: Many times i have problems staying in a sneak mode after Dark Cloak turns off. Entering the combat in sneak, crit hit, shadow cloak to pull back and try to deal another crit hit but although i press sneak button before Dark Cloak expire, most of the times i am not in sneak.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

I'm still grinding my VR9 Nightblade through Cadwell's Gold, and I'm noticing that Dark Cloak is REALLY twitchy.

A large chunk of the time, it just flat-out doesn't work.

F7sus4

The amount of times this topic was displayed (2000+) when compared to all the other ones (100/300-ish) probably should tip something to someone. And it does*.

(*except to the developers, however)