OK, I'm convinced. Vamp is overpowered in PvP.

Chryos

You must be smarter than the zerg.

Zershar_Vemod

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi, folks. We wanted to let you know that we are actively monitoring and working to balance Vampires. In our recent reddit AUA, we stated that the following tweaks are coming soon in a future patch:

• Fixed the bug where multiple Bat Swarms can be stacked on the same Vampire.
• Reduced the movement speed bonus during mist form to 30% (which makes it equivalent to the "Boundless storm" morph of Lightning form)
• Reduced the Vampire ability cost reduction to 7% per stage

We'll continue to keep an eye on Vampires in PvP, and want to thank you for your feedback!

So, are you guys even bothering to deal with DK/Sorc/Emperor bonuses which made ultimate cool downs so low that a small amount of players have been able to spam ult abilities in the first place? Or just listening to the vocal minority's "nerf" chant again?

Neferath

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi, folks. We wanted to let you know that we are actively monitoring and working to balance Vampires. In our recent reddit AUA, we stated that the following tweaks are coming soon in a future patch:

• Fixed the bug where multiple Bat Swarms can be stacked on the same Vampire.
• Reduced the movement speed bonus during mist form to 30% (which makes it equivalent to the "Boundless storm" morph of Lightning form)
• Reduced the Vampire ability cost reduction to 7% per stage

We'll continue to keep an eye on Vampires in PvP, and want to thank you for your feedback!

Actually i really should laugh bout that. Especially about the feedback part.

What you guys did, was not listen to feedback but to "whiners" and "ranters" who of course had a serious point with the vampire issue but didnt even understand what the real problem was / is.

I am a vamp player and planned my dunmer vamp back in january during the beta and i can tell you for sure what you are about to do with this patch will change nothing except of nerfing the wrong ppl.

PVE vampire players and those who dont abuse bat swarm + mist form.

Actually the real problem with us vamps is that

1. We are able to heal ourselfs while using mist form since the bat swarm healing isnt implemented as healing in this game but as drain and therefore allows us to get healed while using mist form wich shouldn't be the case.
2. The ridiculous ultimate cost reduction that can be achieved while playing a sorc or a dk and, wich actually isnt a vampire related problem at all but a general one because of all the vet. set items that reduce ult. cost. And to make it even more worse there is another introduced iirc.


These would have been the 2 points that needed a rework or "fix" on your side in order to solve the vamp problem.

Mist form alone, wasnt op at all. Just like the bat swarm ultimate alone isnt op in any way. But allowing us to combine both in order to negate the "you can't get healed part" of mist form - since bat swarm is a drain and not a heal - is utterly wrong.

What you are about to do, is nothing else but punishing those vampires, who arent abusing these mechanisms. Honestly i really appreciate your attempt to solve the vampire problem since it definately needs to be solved.

But this, is the wrong way to do it sorry.

Trayt

I agree with Neferath

I too am a vampire (NB breton specifically) and while I recognize the need to stop the constant spam and issues experienced in Cyrodiil, these nerfs are not the way to go about doing so.

What has been described really just means being a vampire is just a disadvantage I mean, if you reduce the reduction costs to 7% per stage + the obviously bad regen rates and the fact that you have to feed EVERY HALF HOUR to stay in stage 1, and weakness to fire, and now mist form is no better than an average class ability. what is the point of even having vampires in the game? They are no longer these "super human" creatures any longer as they were advertised, but now become a mediocre skill line with lots of negatives and no positives.

Alexandrious

Snit wrote: »

cwbriggs6ub17_ESO wrote: »

O and for you non Vamps saying this 'rebalance' is great .... beware ur class/char nerf is next (based on whiners in forums).

Hi.

You're not actually a vampire. You're a human playing a multiplayer game, so perhaps don't take it so personally.

Vampire DK/ Sorcs were able to single-handedly wipe zergs. I understand if you were excited about being to do this yourself, but as a human playing a game with *other humans,* I hope you can understand that everyone else isn't here to play cannon-fodder to your apex predator.

Vampires will still be very strong, and they'll probably still be the strongest PvP option available in the game. They're not going to be raidbosses, though. The other players are paying $15/ month, too, and they deserve a chance.

I'm pretty pleased ZOS jumped on this quickly. I hope it's enough. We'll see.

Strongest option? Naw, maybe more in line with other builds and combos, even now I seen vamps get melted by Fire DKs who manage to get up to 65 to 75 percent or so spell pent chugging 100 percent crit/mana pots. All that mostly wasted fire resist glyphs, hurts so guud.

AshTal

I actually suspect the changes will be too little too late.
I think a lot of people who wanted mass battlefield PvP have been put off by the Vampire God mode. How something this broken and damaging to a game which sold it's self on mass PvP made it into live amazes me. Vampire is a choice it should be no better than mages guild or Fighters guild. But it is, half the raids I join in PvP ask how many Vampies we have so we know if we will win or not. The rest of us are just cannon fodder and this may surprise the Dev's and Vampire players I don't pay a subscription to make someone else feel uber powerful.

Alexandrious

AshTal wrote: »

I actually suspect the changes will be too little too late.
I think a lot of people who wanted mass battlefield PvP have been put off by the Vampire God mode. How something this broken and damaging to a game which sold it's self on mass PvP made it into live amazes me. Vampire is a choice it should be no better than mages guild or Fighters guild. But it is, half the raids I join in PvP ask how many Vampies we have so we know if we will win or not. The rest of us are just cannon fodder and this may surprise the Dev's and Vampire players I don't pay a subscription to make someone else feel uber powerful.

Then dont, yea I agree, they are OP, and need alot of the right nerfs right now, but you can counter them if your a Light wearing Fire DK who also uses Crit Potions, silver bolts, and turn undead to fear them. Many times I used turn undead on a one trick pony bat swarm spamming blocking vamp tank and it caused him to drop his shield getting him obliterated if he cant get out of fear quick enough. They can have all the fire resist they want too, I seen Fire DKs with over 70 spell pent stacked using trait, Passives, Mundus stone the apprentice with divines traits, etc.

They got a counter, but its still difficult to do if theirs too many people trying to melee the damn thing. Only people who should be meleeing one is a VR10 himself.

Though really, thing I want fixed most right now, is the six group lag/crash thing, the cyrodiil infinite loads, and other server related problems in cyrodiil. Thats whats making me not wanna pvp right now.

Reinmard

Thank god I dont do pvp at this mmo.

danteafk

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi, folks. We wanted to let you know that we are actively monitoring and working to balance Vampires. In our recent reddit AUA, we stated that the following tweaks are coming soon in a future patch:

• Fixed the bug where multiple Bat Swarms can be stacked on the same Vampire.
• Reduced the movement speed bonus during mist form to 30% (which makes it equivalent to the "Boundless storm" morph of Lightning form)
• Reduced the Vampire ability cost reduction to 7% per stage

We'll continue to keep an eye on Vampires in PvP, and want to thank you for your feedback!

This is not enough. The faulty calculation of stacking cooldown reduction has to be fixed.

Sorcs will still be able to spam batswarm. Why don't you realize this?

tjrichards01_ESO

vampires are not op ppl just to dumb to use bows and spells vamps die extremely fast at range, but since ppl too stupid to say out of melee range all they do is feed the bat swarm making the person immune to damage THIS ISNT BROKEN ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK LIKE THAT, u run in i pop bats i get health if u and 20 other ppl run in i take health from everyone, but if everyone is at range i cant charge my bats or get my health back and i die almost instantly.
-VR2 DK vamp

Igolbug

cwbriggs6ub17_ESO wrote: »

21% cost reduction and keeping tons of debuffs ... ESO is not for me.

Thats a HUGE change to a skill line i was unaware of till today .... i got at least 10 points invested in vamp skill line and looks like ESO is going to do more than weaken it instead they will make it fragile ..... if this the direction ESO is heading .... a MAJOR rebalance (based off incorrect facts and a high forum count of whining post) every month............well a 15 dollar a MMO is not for me, just dont feel like playing a game of musical chairs ... ill wait for Elder Scrolls 6, with no sub fee and i play a normal powerful vampire not a weak creature ...... if u feel the same tell ESO.

O and for you non Vamps saying this 'rebalance' is great .... beware ur class/char nerf is next (based on whiners in forums).

No, I don't think my class/char will be nerfed for a very very long time.

Glurin

tjrichards01_ESO wrote: »

vampires are not op ppl just to dumb to use bows and spells vamps die extremely fast at range, but since ppl too stupid to say out of melee range all they do is feed the bat swarm making the person immune to damage THIS ISNT BROKEN ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK LIKE THAT, u run in i pop bats i get health if u and 20 other ppl run in i take health from everyone, but if everyone is at range i cant charge my bats or get my health back and i die almost instantly.
-VR2 DK vamp

That's kind of the point. One vampire v.s. say four enemies, he pops bat swarm and gets health from them making him harder to bring down because he's leaching health from them. The problem is that right now it makes him invincible rather than simply harder to kill.

I don't care what your class is or if you picked vampire or werewolf or zombie monster or brony. If you're all alone against twenty or thirty enemy players filling you with so many flaming silver bolts that you could buy Mournhold with them, then that group should be able to put you down so hard that you die three more times just trying to rez at the nearest wayshrine.

Something is broke when it comes to vampires in PvP. What that something is, ultimately that's for the devs to puzzle out. But to say it's working as intended is clearly incorrect.

moXrox

AshTal wrote: »

I actually suspect the changes will be too little too late.
I think a lot of people who wanted mass battlefield PvP have been put off by the Vampire God mode. How something this broken and damaging to a game which sold it's self on mass PvP made it into live amazes me. Vampire is a choice it should be no better than mages guild or Fighters guild. But it is, half the raids I join in PvP ask how many Vampies we have so we know if we will win or not. The rest of us are just cannon fodder and this may surprise the Dev's and Vampire players I don't pay a subscription to make someone else feel uber powerful.

Totally agree.

Vodkaphile

I'm concerned that the recently announced upcoming nerfs to Vamps actually do very little to address the problems.

nopressure

I dont know mutch about vampire abilities, but when i see bat swarm in battlefield, i know that my team is done. Only thing i can do is quickly go in stealth and get out of vamps way. Then i must observe sad and pointless battle against vamp, everyone dies..Some say, that you can silence vamp, dont know how effective is that.

Iceman_mat

The key thing in taking down a vampire is teamwork. Sadly dev's in every game ever can not buff nor nerf things enough to make people do this effectively.

I went into a pvp at level 28 and was able to cc (once) a vr10 vampire. My team (alliance) then laid into him and forced him to retreat to the other vets on his team.

No they probably didn't win many battles and the vamp probably wrecked face but he was forced into a retreat with teamwork. You should try it sometime. *** is OP as ***.

-Cheers

AshTal

Problem is the Vampire fix isn't enough and as some people have said team work and luck can drive off the vampire but he just mist forms gets out of there waits for us to engage someone else or nan objective and wipes the entire raid solo.

Lee

And people crying like OP is the reason why PvP in this game will always lack and have absolutely no balancing. There is very little wrong with vampire, it's a mechanical issue. Reducing ultimate cost in any form is OP and the 'fixes' Zenimax is going to do will not stop bat swarm, but will reduce everything else in the vampire tree, this solves nothing. Then when Zenimax finds out this wont work, vampire will become the next WW. I am a vampire, I do not abuse bat swarm and I can understand why people think vampire is OP, but people never understand why and this is what hurts balancing more then anything.

andrewb14_ESO45

Chryos wrote: »

"The counter for vamps is to NOT play as a zerg."

This.

That's great when you are out in the open but I was in a Raid where one of the Bad Swarm unlimited ulimate abusers jumped into a keep that was being taken. How you supposed to spread out when you are trying to hold a flag at a keep or resource?

You don't.

I have been able to kill vet ranked vampires at level 30 with minimal support so I don't consider them overpowered other than the broken unlimited badswarms like in the video above. Something must be done about that and spread out is not the answer, you have to clump up to capture flags and resources.

Tandara

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi, folks. We wanted to let you know that we are actively monitoring and working to balance Vampires. In our recent reddit AUA, we stated that the following tweaks are coming soon in a future patch:

• Fixed the bug where multiple Bat Swarms can be stacked on the same Vampire.
• Reduced the movement speed bonus during mist form to 30% (which makes it equivalent to the "Boundless storm" morph of Lightning form)
• Reduced the Vampire ability cost reduction to 7% per stage

We'll continue to keep an eye on Vampires in PvP, and want to thank you for your feedback!

So, are you guys even bothering to deal with DK/Sorc/Emperor bonuses which made ultimate cool downs so low that a small amount of players have been able to spam ult abilities in the first place? Or just listening to the vocal minority's "nerf" chant again?

Dk has no ulti reduce except spamming a 300 mana abilty for 2 ulti. Yay well worth it. Seems like you're just on the nerf dk train without knowing anything about classes. Please don't post nerf threads if you're acutally don't know what you're talking about.

Edit: missed da "don't"

Asava

I guess that you've never heard of reduction stacking gear then.

Tandara

Asava wrote: »

I guess that you've never heard of reduction stacking gear then.

He said Dk/Sorc/Emp bonuses. DK has none. Sorc has one and Emp of course, too.

Seems like you too don't know what you're talking about. EVERYONE can get the 20% reduction set. This was about abilities which only single classes can get to reduce their ulti needed. ;>

Asava

That's why I said GEAR not abilities.

Tandara

Now I don't really know what you want from me at all.

I only commented about his post:


Zershar_Vemod wrote: »
» show previous quotes

So, are you guys even bothering to deal with DK/Sorc/Emperor bonuses which made ultimate cool downs so low that a small amount of players have been able to spam ult abilities in the first place? Or just listening to the vocal minority's "nerf" chant again?

What does this have to do with your gear thing? I just don't get it.

Asava

You can wear 2-3 sets of gear that stacks the reduction which includes ultimates. Sorcs can get down to 4 utli per bat swarm and Dk's can easily drop it down to 40 per use. Personally I think that reductions should work on everything except ultimate abilities.

Tandara

Yeah and now it also doesn't have anything to do with my post at all. Everyone knows that you can stack gear? so what?

And btw for sorc it's atm 4 ulti for bat and for dk 34. Emp gets out with 0 cost.

BenjaminKacher_ESO

ZNICK wrote: »

I'm leaving and buying the $150 AA alpha... only because of this. Shame really, I was really loving ESO too. I won't play a game where this is possible though.

Z

Can haz ur stuff?

cjtignub17_ESO

Bat swarm even at 4 ulti cost isnt OP its a good anti zerg tactic. All u gota do is move outside of the aoe and nuke doen the vamp.

Bc of the babies crying vamp is getting nerfed to hell. This game is gona turn into zerg v zerg if they keep nerfing all the good aoe builds. Its the onky defense against 50 man zergs (except for bigger zergs).

This game shouldnt honor zergging no good guild groups die to ulti spamming vamps. I tried it on entropy risings group the other day and got wtfpwned. They all moved out of aoe, Cced and nuked. It not that hard newbies learn to pvp this vamp 7% cost reduction nerf and aoe nerf r gona ruin this game.

Vamp shoukd be at least 50% cost reduction at stage four. That barley offsets the 50% dmg ur taking from fire and fight guild abilities. Even in mist form ur still taking 38% dmg from fire and cant get healed....

Asava

Unless you wear a 1040 fire resist ring, thank you come again!

kijima

Even with the vamp nerf's that have come through, they are still OP.