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Dark Talon shall not be nerfed
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Ruddertail✭✭✭Nightblades would be fine in my opinion if not for the extreme imbalance with AOE grinding. You are stuck leveling through questing as plinking targets off one at a time just can't compare.
Sorcerers are OP I think since they can AOE grind and AOE grinding is OP. So much is broke though it's hard to tell if without that they'd still be OP.
I don't understand why you'd AoE grind in this game when you reach level V9 easily by questing and the remainder is quickest to get by running V6-10 dungeons. (Mainly Wayrest)0 -
hasselhoffman✭✭✭How about they make immovable work like its supposed to. No nerfing and it stops the complaints. I can be immune to NB's surpise attack stun while immovable is active, but I can't be immune to dark talons for 8 seconds? That's ***. Makes absolutely no sense to me. The problem is they need to fix the skills that should work to counter abilities like dark talons. Rant complete.0 -
vicNBitis✭✭✭Because AOE grinding is the most efficient(time-wise) way to level. It's not even close. You can't have one class that is the best at everything save healing and have them also the easiest/quickest to level. That level of imbalance is toxic.
Talons is toxic as well. Just to recap:
1) crowd control
2) damage-over-time or debuff
3) direct damage
4) synergy
5) non-ultimate
6) tier 2
7) spammable cost
8) instant cast1 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only toxic thing here is your, misinformation, embellishment, and unhealthy crusade against a class in a video game.2 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭I think I'm just going to post this again:From the Recent AuA:
"Dark talons is currently bugged and can hit more targets than intended. We're also discussing improving players' ability to counter immobilize effects, but I don't have details for you on that just yet." -zos_konk
ZOS is aware of Broken Talons. It will be fixed, and then expect that counterplay to immobilize effects will be added because the lack of them is self evident. Load up on the Paxil now you zealous defenders of unblockable AoE immobilize spamming, the coming months are going to be really sad for you.
I'll just keep re-posting this over and over in every effin' "QQ Nerf Dark Talons" thread that pops up. Eventually people will read it.0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, please keep spamming your childish post. Laughing at your over-investment in this topic is hilarious.0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO wrote: »You can do it the other way round:
Talons:
-Radius: 5mtr. (meele range, still 78 sqm)
-Costs: 500 Magicka
-Damage: 117 + 137dot
still better in all points but not that OP anymore
You don't have to raise the cost. I'd rather have them deal with the cost reduction stuff across the board. Lots of builds are benefitting from high cost reduction, so nerfing a single ability doesn't really help.
The other stuff looks fine, especially considering Talons still has the synergy which will add additional damage. This seems more in line with other CC skills.
-Travail.
Im a DK and ive no problem with the nerf. Just dont cry when they cant root 9 out of the 12 mobs Zos throws at you in craglorn. Just fix melee next the ridiculous magica light armor power builds need to be brought in line.I think I'm just going to post this again:From the Recent AuA:
"Dark talons is currently bugged and can hit more targets than intended. We're also discussing improving players' ability to counter immobilize effects, but I don't have details for you on that just yet." -zos_konk
ZOS is aware of Broken Talons. It will be fixed, and then expect that counterplay to immobilize effects will be added because the lack of them is self evident. Load up on the Paxil now you zealous defenders of unblockable AoE immobilize spamming, the coming months are going to be really sad for you.
I'll just keep re-posting this over and over in every effin' "QQ Nerf Dark Talons" thread that pops up. Eventually people will read it.
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Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »Yes, please keep spamming your childish post. Laughing at your over-investment in this topic is hilarious.
Laugh it up. I've been waiting for a DAoC successor for over a decade. I'd prefer not to see it muddied up by tourists who will be gone by the end of the year anyhow. What's your excuse? Enjoy the show?0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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If you truly had the game's best intentions in mind, you'd support fixing the route cause of imbalances rather than advocating knee-jerk reactions to the class that killed you that one time.Maverick827 wrote: »Yes, please keep spamming your childish post. Laughing at your over-investment in this topic is hilarious.
Laugh it up. I've been waiting for a DAoC successor for over a decade. I'd prefer not to see it muddied up by tourists who will be gone by the end of the year anyhow. What's your excuse? Enjoy the show?Edited by Maverick827 on 20 May 2014 19:140 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Maverick827
Obscure is a DK. And he doesn't die very much.
Advocating for game balance is a real thing that people do, even when it would negatively affect their class or even their particular build.
People like you ruin these conversations by making things personal. It doesn't matter what class you play or what classes you fight. What matters is whether your arguments are good or bad.
My biggest concern right now is with a Templar ability, something I'm not going to share publicly because it would be a big issue. I don't even play Templar, but I feel its unfair to those in my guild that do.1 -
Ruddertail✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Im a DK and ive no problem with the nerf. Just dont cry when they cant root 9 out of the 12 mobs Zos throws at you in craglorn. Just fix melee next the ridiculous magica light armor power builds need to be brought in line.
The problem is that if they nerf light armor they'll kill off sorcerers, and we're not the issue. (except possibly bolt escape, and then only in pvp)
1 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
If you truly had the game's best intentions in mind, you'd support fixing the route cause of imbalances rather than advocating knee-jerk reactions to the class that killed you that one time.Maverick827 wrote: »Yes, please keep spamming your childish post. Laughing at your over-investment in this topic is hilarious.
Laugh it up. I've been waiting for a DAoC successor for over a decade. I'd prefer not to see it muddied up by tourists who will be gone by the end of the year anyhow. What's your excuse? Enjoy the show?
The root cause is immobilize spam and stacking cost reduction. A knee jerk would be nerfing Dark Talons. The Dev's are on the case and I'm satisfied they know how to identity a root cause. Talon spamming scrubs bring shame to my game...and yes I main a VR6 Dragonknight.0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So we agree on what the actual issues are. I guess it's just your toxic rhetoric that's causing this disconnect.Maverick827 wrote: »
If you truly had the game's best intentions in mind, you'd support fixing the route cause of imbalances rather than advocating knee-jerk reactions to the class that killed you that one time.Maverick827 wrote: »Yes, please keep spamming your childish post. Laughing at your over-investment in this topic is hilarious.
Laugh it up. I've been waiting for a DAoC successor for over a decade. I'd prefer not to see it muddied up by tourists who will be gone by the end of the year anyhow. What's your excuse? Enjoy the show?
The root cause is immobilize spam and stacking cost reduction. A knee jerk would be nerfing Dark Talons. The Dev's are on the case and I'm satisfied they know how to identity a root cause. Talon spamming scrubs bring shame to my game...and yes I main a VR6 Dragonknight.0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
So we agree on what the actual issues are. I guess it's just your toxic rhetoric that's causing this disconnect.Maverick827 wrote: »
If you truly had the game's best intentions in mind, you'd support fixing the route cause of imbalances rather than advocating knee-jerk reactions to the class that killed you that one time.Maverick827 wrote: »Yes, please keep spamming your childish post. Laughing at your over-investment in this topic is hilarious.
Laugh it up. I've been waiting for a DAoC successor for over a decade. I'd prefer not to see it muddied up by tourists who will be gone by the end of the year anyhow. What's your excuse? Enjoy the show?
The root cause is immobilize spam and stacking cost reduction. A knee jerk would be nerfing Dark Talons. The Dev's are on the case and I'm satisfied they know how to identity a root cause. Talon spamming scrubs bring shame to my game...and yes I main a VR6 Dragonknight.
Lol you are one of the worst people on these forums. Anyone sniffs at DKs being over powered and you spew garbage. Tough to stomach you calling anyone else toxic.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You, Obscure, and (to a lesser extent) NordJitsu refuse to treat the topic and others who disagree with you with respect, so why should I treat you with any?Maverick827 wrote: »
So we agree on what the actual issues are. I guess it's just your toxic rhetoric that's causing this disconnect.Maverick827 wrote: »
If you truly had the game's best intentions in mind, you'd support fixing the route cause of imbalances rather than advocating knee-jerk reactions to the class that killed you that one time.Maverick827 wrote: »Yes, please keep spamming your childish post. Laughing at your over-investment in this topic is hilarious.
Laugh it up. I've been waiting for a DAoC successor for over a decade. I'd prefer not to see it muddied up by tourists who will be gone by the end of the year anyhow. What's your excuse? Enjoy the show?
The root cause is immobilize spam and stacking cost reduction. A knee jerk would be nerfing Dark Talons. The Dev's are on the case and I'm satisfied they know how to identity a root cause. Talon spamming scrubs bring shame to my game...and yes I main a VR6 Dragonknight.
Lol you are one of the worst people on these forums. Anyone sniffs at DKs being over powered and you spew garbage. Tough to stomach you calling anyone else toxic.Edited by Maverick827 on 20 May 2014 21:420 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Maverick827
Sorry, but where was I disrespectful to anyone?
I've made a handful of comments in this thread. Each of them has been directed at what I think the problem is, what the solutions are, ect. The only semi-off-topic post was to inform you that Obscure is a DK (and a very good one at that) so he isn't asking for balancing because he "died to a DK." I don't consider that disrespectful.1 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭Talons is toxic as well. Just to recap:
1) crowd control
2) damage-over-time or debuff
3) direct damage
4) synergy
5) non-ultimate
6) tier 2
7) spammable cost
8) instant cast
AND I PLAY A DK. Talons' only 'saving' grace (hardly) is that it is expensive in a non-light armor build, but that hardly justifies the 8 things above. They can start with the changes to immobilizes and cc immunity (honestly cc immunity should mean ALL immunity, not just stuns). The synergy on talons makes it really really stupid in group pvp, combined with not being able to get out is really just dumb, I don't see how anyone can't see that. Add banner and you have an absurd chokepoint control combination no other class can come close to.
Now this is a bit off topic but... Maverick did you happen to ever play a warrior in Rift? There is a strange sense of familiarity to these comments."nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/editor/2n/35zpb92kfggx.gif0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maverick827 wrote: »You, Obscure, and (to a lesser extent) NordJitsu refuse to treat the topic and others who disagree with you with respect, so why should I treat you with any?
I think, it's pretty clear to anyone reading your post, who the toxic poster is.2 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It is pretty clear because I said their names.CapuchinSeven wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »You, Obscure, and (to a lesser extent) NordJitsu refuse to treat the topic and others who disagree with you with respect, so why should I treat you with any?
I think, it's pretty clear to anyone reading your post, who the toxic poster is.1 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maverick827 wrote: »
It is pretty clear because I said their names.CapuchinSeven wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »You, Obscure, and (to a lesser extent) NordJitsu refuse to treat the topic and others who disagree with you with respect, so why should I treat you with any?
I think, it's pretty clear to anyone reading your post, who the toxic poster is.
No. It's pretty clear you're unable to reply without being an ass about it.
I'm out.1 -
nerf spell cost reduce VS nerf 1 skill that has too low costs for the benefits he has:
- nerf spell cost: Would affect everyone and every magicka skill, still letting Talons be the best of them all
- nerf Talons: Would bring it on par with Shattering Prison for example, although you would have to nerf Talons really hard to have this state.
You guys understand what I mean?
If you just nerf spell cost reduce, you still have the same problem with Talons and Bolt Escape being the best skills comparing benefits and costs.
Its not that spell cost reduce is the problem, those skills being so powerful, its the fact, that they are better compared to other skills for what they cost.
To Balance certain skills you have to change the skills and not an mechanic.
Same with CC, you can nerf soft-CC, but you also affect all other Soft-CC-Skills who arent OP.
Balancing mechanics, because 1-3 skills with that mechanic are op is just utterly plain stupid. You beat those people in the face who have classes with the weaker skills using that mechanic, because the difference between their skills and the op skills still stays the same.
This is like:
Weapon 1: 125 damage, 1 swing per Second
Weapon 2: 120 damage, 0,8 swing per Second
-> Aeehmmm lets reduce speed of all weapons by 10% because Weapon 1 is too fast.0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Hypocrite.CapuchinSeven wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
It is pretty clear because I said their names.CapuchinSeven wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »You, Obscure, and (to a lesser extent) NordJitsu refuse to treat the topic and others who disagree with you with respect, so why should I treat you with any?
I think, it's pretty clear to anyone reading your post, who the toxic poster is.
No. It's pretty clear you're unable to reply without being an ass about it.
I'm out.0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think a 2-4 sec Immunity after dodging out of immobilize would do the trick.
Pretty much fixes the issue, I dunno why they feel this needs so much thought behind it, it's a no-brainer. Even no magic stack builds can spam it, so let them, add in the immune and all they are doing is burning magic.
As it stands though, no one should find themselves rolling out of CC to be stuck in it immediately after. And again, right after that.Edited by CapuchinSeven on 21 May 2014 12:572 -
hasselhoffman✭✭✭I've been saying this. They just need to make immovable from the heavy armor skill line counter all CC. I should be able to pop immovable before engaging a DK and not get stuck with talons just saying.1
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Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭
it is broken in PVE as well . really the whole stamina passive system in heavy and medium armor is severly deficient to Light armor. you are fare more effective in light armor for all classes. melee weapon lines are severly under powered to casting ranged specs. it completely nullifies any usefullness of melee . you need only look at the craglorn videos to see they have no intention of changing this anytime soon as the whole trial force was ranged.hasselhoffman wrote: »I've been saying this. They just need to make immovable from the heavy armor skill line counter all CC. I should be able to pop immovable before engaging a DK and not get stuck with talons just saying.
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Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »
it is broken in PVE as well . really the whole stamina passive system in heavy and medium armor is severly deficient to Light armor. you are fare more effective in light armor for all classes. melee weapon lines are severly under powered to casting ranged specs. it completely nullifies any usefullness of melee . you need only look at the craglorn videos to see they have no intention of changing this anytime soon as the whole trial force was ranged.hasselhoffman wrote: »I've been saying this. They just need to make immovable from the heavy armor skill line counter all CC. I should be able to pop immovable before engaging a DK and not get stuck with talons just saying.
Indeed.
Add an immunity on Dodge to correct for rapid reapplication, significantly improve weapon line skill damage (or heavily reduce the costs), and balance Light Armor with Medium Armor and Heavy Armor in terms of resource management (get rid of the cost reduction on light and there's no need to touch Talons). Fix a wide variety of problems with the core mechanics over night. That said they also need to constrain the amount of ultimate that can be generated by AoE, and the cost reductions involved, to ensure AoE's like Talons aren't continually exploited for the quick speed of ultimate charging they contribute to.0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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Who you are as a poster is not defined by just this thread. A lot of your posts in the other Dark Talons threads are just really trollish, abrasive, and elitist. I don't feel like compiling all of your unhelpful, pithy "welcome to Dragon Knights online" and "I'm awesome at this game, so I know what I'm talking about and you're wrong" style of comments, but I think we both know that they exist.@Maverick827
Sorry, but where was I disrespectful to anyone?
I've made a handful of comments in this thread. Each of them has been directed at what I think the problem is, what the solutions are, ect. The only semi-off-topic post was to inform you that Obscure is a DK (and a very good one at that) so he isn't asking for balancing because he "died to a DK." I don't consider that disrespectful.
And I don't think even Obscure can say that Obscure isn't an outright *** in pretty much every post he makes on this topic.0 -
Evergreen✭✭✭hasselhoffman wrote: »I've been saying this. They just need to make immovable from the heavy armor skill line counter all CC. I should be able to pop immovable before engaging a DK and not get stuck with talons just saying.
Yes this has got to be the best solution because nerfing a class should be the last resort. Even as powerful or overpowered Dragon Knights might be I think we should find solutions which do not include nerfing Dragon Knight abilities.
What OP suggested about making immovable counter all CC is a great example of buffing skills other classes can use in order to deal with the power, class synergy, survivability and utility of a Dragon Knight.
Simply buff classes like the Nightblade and Templar to bring them up to par with a Dragon Knight. Nerfing should always be the last option imo.0
