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The real reason/problem for the AoE cap, and possible solutions
Jarnhand
✭✭✭
The whole AoE-cap bandaid will be a huge fail for this game! It will remove any tactic from the game, or chance for any smaller group of people to take on a larger group. It will all be huge roaming serg vs serg = utterly boring after 1 night.
It is still no cap on number of targets for spells in DAoC, about 13 years after release. And DAoC is still king of the hill in this type of MMO PvP.
But in DAoC skills have cast timers, which can be disrupted. The highest damage ae skills (pbaoe) do have damage fall off, close to caster its deadly, further out not so. DAoC have AE CC which would interupt the casters. BUT STILL NO CLASS OR CHAR IN DAOC EVER GET GODLIKE LIKE VAMPS IN THIS GAME!! Not even remotely close.
Zenimax need to balance skills one by one, not some slap on blanket bandaid for the whole game.
The main reason for the uproar and the reason for this bandaid fix is Vamps, yes Vamps. Solo Emperor Vamps soloing whole sergs, yes it happens, I have seen it several times. Do not even have to be a Emperor, but it just makes the whole thing even more utterly stupid!
Fix the vamp abilities, and stop blanket nerfing the whole game!
How it can be done (choose several):
- fix the bugs/exploits for vamp skills, they are clearly broken
- set caps on stacking effects (this is already ingame for stats/regen)
- set caps on ulti cost reduction
- set caps on ulti spamming
- cap max effect for a skill like return health vamps get per second
- make it smaller area
- rework the whole thing
DO NOT nerf the classes the vamps are missusing to get godlike, NERF the stupid thing called vampire. Like it went live, it has to be one of the worst balance misstake in any MMO ever!
These issues were flagged by testers in beta, and still Zenimax went live with this. What they were thinking is beyond me!
And even before you vamp kids start; do not bother to post your l2p and fire and silver bolts posts. THEY DO NOT WORK! The abilities are bugged/broken (they do not work like they should) and stacking exploits 4 cost ulti spamming makes vamps UNKILLABLE.
Here is a link directly to a honest post from a vamp player on how this works...ehh I mean does NOT work, since the whole thing is buged/broken:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/739758#Comment_739758
Yes a small group of people using tactics, cooperation and skill should be able to kill a whole serg of non-thinking auto attacking serglings, under the right circumtances.
But what is wrong here is buged skills combined with insane stacking without caps and broken skills, which was never intended to work like this. What vamps do is not m4d skillz, its using exploits in stacking + broken/'not working as intended' skills
What vamps do is use stacking and bugs so the whole thing breaks the game, and its Zenimax JOB to fix this before so many people get angry that the game get so bad rep it dies.
Fix the bugs, and stop slapping on blanket bandaids that hurt a lot more then the people using the broken skills/stackings!
I love the game, but the current state of the vampire makes people leave the game. And this needed to be fixed two weeks ago!
It is still no cap on number of targets for spells in DAoC, about 13 years after release. And DAoC is still king of the hill in this type of MMO PvP.
But in DAoC skills have cast timers, which can be disrupted. The highest damage ae skills (pbaoe) do have damage fall off, close to caster its deadly, further out not so. DAoC have AE CC which would interupt the casters. BUT STILL NO CLASS OR CHAR IN DAOC EVER GET GODLIKE LIKE VAMPS IN THIS GAME!! Not even remotely close.
Zenimax need to balance skills one by one, not some slap on blanket bandaid for the whole game.
The main reason for the uproar and the reason for this bandaid fix is Vamps, yes Vamps. Solo Emperor Vamps soloing whole sergs, yes it happens, I have seen it several times. Do not even have to be a Emperor, but it just makes the whole thing even more utterly stupid!
Fix the vamp abilities, and stop blanket nerfing the whole game!
How it can be done (choose several):
- fix the bugs/exploits for vamp skills, they are clearly broken
- set caps on stacking effects (this is already ingame for stats/regen)
- set caps on ulti cost reduction
- set caps on ulti spamming
- cap max effect for a skill like return health vamps get per second
- make it smaller area
- rework the whole thing
DO NOT nerf the classes the vamps are missusing to get godlike, NERF the stupid thing called vampire. Like it went live, it has to be one of the worst balance misstake in any MMO ever!
These issues were flagged by testers in beta, and still Zenimax went live with this. What they were thinking is beyond me!
And even before you vamp kids start; do not bother to post your l2p and fire and silver bolts posts. THEY DO NOT WORK! The abilities are bugged/broken (they do not work like they should) and stacking exploits 4 cost ulti spamming makes vamps UNKILLABLE.
Here is a link directly to a honest post from a vamp player on how this works...ehh I mean does NOT work, since the whole thing is buged/broken:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/739758#Comment_739758
Yes a small group of people using tactics, cooperation and skill should be able to kill a whole serg of non-thinking auto attacking serglings, under the right circumtances.
But what is wrong here is buged skills combined with insane stacking without caps and broken skills, which was never intended to work like this. What vamps do is not m4d skillz, its using exploits in stacking + broken/'not working as intended' skills
What vamps do is use stacking and bugs so the whole thing breaks the game, and its Zenimax JOB to fix this before so many people get angry that the game get so bad rep it dies.
Fix the bugs, and stop slapping on blanket bandaids that hurt a lot more then the people using the broken skills/stackings!
I love the game, but the current state of the vampire makes people leave the game. And this needed to be fixed two weeks ago!
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reggielee✭✭✭✭sounds like a logical solution to me, i like the decreasing effectiveness of the spells the further the distance bit the bestMama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.0 -
TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭Once agian... the AoE cap on most skills has been around since launch. It wasn't until they continued to fix the rest of the skills "did players start to complain".
It appears... what player's "didn't know about doesn't hurt them" was true in this situation: THIS GAME ALREADY HAS AOE CAPS! I didnt' see you complaining a few weeks ago before you "knew" this.Indeed it is so...1 -
Jarnhand✭✭✭1- Zenimax has not given hard facts about what limits it was on skills in the game, it could have been much higher then 6. I do not believe it was 6 limit before on many skills, I am guessing far higher, if any at all. I am pretty sure if many AoE skills had 6 target limit, this would have been reported as bugs a long time ago. Because it simply is not logical to have a AoE skill just hit 6 targets in a big group. I do believe they are now trying to sneak in a blanket bandaid nerf based on half truths.
2- They are now trying to introduce a 6 limit AoE to the whole game/all skills, see point 1, we do not know what the limit was before.
3- Reason for people to react to this now, is because people didnt know, and many skill descriptions are wrong/badly written/missleading. And as I said I do not think Zenimax here are being fully honest about the AoE limits before/on live.1 -
dumbo✭Personally:
- PBAE in DAoC was high damage because of the danger the caster placed themselves in. But, in ESO, a PBAE caster is in no more danger than the majority of characters.
- there's a belief that PBAE lets a smaller group beat a bigger group. Whilst true, the typical usage is the opposite. Players setup to spam PBAE do not suddenly decide to switch to a sword & board when in a zerg.
- if you were to ask 100 players how they thought PvP combat should work in an MMO, few of them would suggest a group running around spamming PBAE root + PBAE damage + PBAE heal.
I would rather see PBAE as an 'edge case' for combat, rather than something that is the dominant strategy.0 -
Jarnhand✭✭✭Personally:
- PBAE in DAoC was high damage because of the danger the caster placed themselves in. But, in ESO, a PBAE caster is in no more danger than the majority of characters.
- there's a belief that PBAE lets a smaller group beat a bigger group. Whilst true, the typical usage is the opposite. Players setup to spam PBAE do not suddenly decide to switch to a sword & board when in a zerg.
- if you were to ask 100 players how they thought PvP combat should work in an MMO, few of them would suggest a group running around spamming PBAE root + PBAE damage + PBAE heal.
I would rather see PBAE as an 'edge case' for combat, rather than something that is the dominant strategy.
Agree, but not sure what your point is. Whether spells are PBAOE or casted AoE, same alternative fixes could be used.
My point, and many with me, is that 6 limit target on a AoE spell is a bad idea. It is also a bad bandaid blanket nerf/fix to the whole game, to actually balance a few cases that is the problem.
And with a AoE 6 target limit, it will lead to even more serging and underpopulated realms/smaller groups, will get serged all the time by the serg. No way they can counter it with tactics, coordination or skills. The mindless auto target attack serg wins allways = boring boring boring = dead game in 1 year.0
