2 steps forward 10 steps back, now you're helping gold sellers and bots!

norrisnick

Gisgo wrote: »

Im just happy im not a DEV because honestly how do you deal with this?

Make drops harder to obtain for everyone, and legit players will be even more tempted to buy gold/items from professional farmers (bots) that dont mind wasting their time on a boss.

I dont know...

Have someone with the power to ban players actually go into dungeons from time to time. It's not terribly hard to figure out who is botting and who isn't. Zap the accounts and move to the next dungeon.

Penumbra

I am pvper since the days of EQ. But I decided to play PVE on TESO, because to me its one of those games that are worth playing and pay attention to the storyline and immerse yourself in it.

I have never farmed a mob for mats, or other items until TESO. Why now then? For one reason only. I need potions and I need soul shards. And why not get mats on the process since for the first time I was actually getting crafting up. I could probably say that 60% of the people that farm bosses do it for shards more than anything.

Every mat that are listed on vendors are ridiculously priced. Is it 600g for an empty greater soul gem? What about Potions? Stones for armor and weapons, etc? Everything is overpriced. Put the prices down and you will see the reduction on boss farming big time.

The same goes for C.O.D, inventory spaces, bank spaces, respec skill and attribute points. EVERYTHING IS OVERPRICED. Then how do you not expect people to farm for shards and whatnot to cover the insane prices you have put. Who's fault is it?

Now, there are farmers in every game because there are crafters. Period. Is there going to be a measure put in place for node camping too? Now, while that is a different story you know where I'm getting at? If you guys did this move for bots, you went out it the wrong way.

Get that Sensei No Boto 1 hour a day for an entire month to get rid of the bots. Let them see they will get their bots killed and their accounts banned hopefully. Make a real stand like that, not nerfing something common in every game that is player farming.

thomas.manzellaub17_ESO

I like how everyone against this is acting like dungeon farming is new and devs could never have foreseen this. It happens in every MMO. EVERY MMO. It has never not happened. However there are many better ways to solve this "problem" than capping the amount of loot you get from one boss. Especially at 1 kill.

Badh0rse

I read this thread and ... wow. The thing I found the most entertaining is that everyone who said that your way was not a good way to make cash completely failed to present a faster/better way. What do they do instead? They try to point out some flaws in your post to cover their own inability to answer your question. I am not saying I am in agreement or not ... just saying that if you can't answer a question just frakkin say so. I think the OP, you, me, everyone should have a chance to play the way they like unless it directly ruins the game for everyone else. Now before you even say ppl camping the boss does ruin the game I am calling BS! Just wait for it to respawn and press a damn button ... if you are looking for a challenging boss fight then you went to the wrong kind of dungeon anyway!

Volkoth

Zaxq wrote: »

Farming bosses wasnt a good way to farm mats anyway. Not sure why you were wasting your time doing that.

And there are better ways to make gold.

Sounds like another bad player came to the forums to complain.

Not at all, he made several valid points, if you dispute them give some examples. What better ways are there to farm mats? What better ways are there to get gold? Farming isn't against the EULA, botting is. There is nothing wrong with actual players farming. I myself fill up my inventory with gear then go to the crafting station and deconstruct/research. Many others do the same. This is what we enjoy doing. This is why WE pay a sub. Just saying, your way might not be right for us and our way might not be right for you. But don't cut the man down for saying how he feels. As previously stated, they were logical and valid points.

Volkoth

Lkory wrote: »

How long is the actual timer?

EDIT: oh it wasn't even deployed hehe

Still would love an official answer on how long this timer is and is it a global timer?

I can tell you this, In shadowfen I killed a boss, got loot, waited for respawn, killed boss for NO loot. I left the dungeon, killed a world boss and again got NO loot, traveled to the complete other side of the map and killed another dungeon boss for NO loot. The whole ordeal was about 25 or 30min with no boss loot.

Tetujin

Volkoth wrote: »

Lkory wrote: »

How long is the actual timer?

EDIT: oh it wasn't even deployed hehe

Still would love an official answer on how long this timer is and is it a global timer?

I can tell you this, In shadowfen I killed a boss, got loot, waited for respawn, killed boss for NO loot. I left the dungeon, killed a world boss and again got NO loot, traveled to the complete other side of the map and killed another dungeon boss for NO loot. The whole ordeal was about 25 or 30min with no boss loot.

Well, personally I was only referring to camping and spamming a single boss, which I can in no way see anyone defending with a straight face. I can't say I'm in favor of being locked out from all bosses' loot like that, just like I would not be in favor of being unable to get loot by going through a dungeon a second time.

Lkory

Volkoth wrote: »

Lkory wrote: »

How long is the actual timer?

EDIT: oh it wasn't even deployed hehe

Still would love an official answer on how long this timer is and is it a global timer?

I can tell you this, In shadowfen I killed a boss, got loot, waited for respawn, killed boss for NO loot. I left the dungeon, killed a world boss and again got NO loot, traveled to the complete other side of the map and killed another dungeon boss for NO loot. The whole ordeal was about 25 or 30min with no boss loot.

Cool and a few days before sub kicks....BRAVO Zenimax!

Probably wont sub if its is really the case.

KaizerXul

Farming should not be part of the game play. It is what bots do and people hate that. Why should it be any different for actual players? Kill the boss and move on.
Come back later. This gives everyone a fair shake.

Everyone wants a nice experience and farmers or bots turn the game into a job and not a game. If you can't get the mats you need in bulk, maybe you're trying too hard and not enjoying yourself enough. I get the mats I need by exploring and playing. SURE it takes longer, but when did this become a race?

Personally, I feel the game drops too much loot in general. I have advocated for less so that your focus is on the play rather than the treasure. Less loot = more value = less farming = less bots = less bs.

Just my two cents.

Enundr

KaizerXul wrote: »

Farming should not be part of the game play. It is what bots do and people hate that. Why should it be any different for actual players? Kill the boss and move on.
Come back later. This gives everyone a fair shake.

Everyone wants a nice experience and farmers or bots turn the game into a job and not a game. If you can't get the mats you need in bulk, maybe you're trying too hard and not enjoying yourself enough. I get the mats I need by exploring and playing. SURE it takes longer, but when did this become a race?

Personally, I feel the game drops too much loot in general. I have advocated for less so that your focus is on the play rather than the treasure. Less loot = more value = less farming = less bots = less bs.

Just my two cents.

welcome to MMOs , farming / camping has been around for ALONG time , nothing new in its concept , botters have gotten out of hand cause people always buy gold due to either A)laziness , feel that they cant make enough gold to make ends meet (which if they farmed/camped delvs and such they would have enough gold) or C) little kid playing online.....again not a new concept , bots are just there cause of said people.

Volkoth

KaizerXul wrote: »

Farming should not be part of the game play. It is what bots do and people hate that. Why should it be any different for actual players? Kill the boss and move on.
Come back later. This gives everyone a fair shake.

Everyone wants a nice experience and farmers or bots turn the game into a job and not a game. If you can't get the mats you need in bulk, maybe you're trying too hard and not enjoying yourself enough. I get the mats I need by exploring and playing. SURE it takes longer, but when did this become a race?

Personally, I feel the game drops too much loot in general. I have advocated for less so that your focus is on the play rather than the treasure. Less loot = more value = less farming = less bots = less bs.

Just my two cents.

What I enjoy Vs. What you enjoy, nothing more or less. Its all about what flavor you want.

Lkory

KaizerXul wrote: »

Farming should not be part of the game play. It is what bots do and people hate that. Why should it be any different for actual players? Kill the boss and move on.
Come back later. This gives everyone a fair shake.

Everyone wants a nice experience and farmers or bots turn the game into a job and not a game. If you can't get the mats you need in bulk, maybe you're trying too hard and not enjoying yourself enough. I get the mats I need by exploring and playing. SURE it takes longer, but when did this become a race?

Personally, I feel the game drops too much loot in general. I have advocated for less so that your focus is on the play rather than the treasure. Less loot = more value = less farming = less bots = less bs.

Just my two cents.

Your logic is flawed. Here is a more realistic version.

More Value = Need more gold to buy things = People willing to buy gold = A lot more bots.

ChairGraveyard

Enundr wrote: »

General Rule of thumb after seeing how GW2 treated this subject NEVER SCREW WITH DROPS , didnt stop botters , WONT stop botters , never will stop botters. only hurts the player base , not the bots. hopefully this decision does a complete reversal before they lose more subscribers......if not well , youve made your bed zennimax , this is your first and only warning.

At least ZOS isn't deleting all the threads about it and banning people that point it out.

Oh and they at least had the decency to put it in the patch notes.

Not saying I like this change (it's crap - even a per boss timer would be fine compared to this), but they aren't quite at ArenaNet level yet.

That said, this change needs to go ASAP, as it only harms regular players, not bots.

I can see making it so you can't just camp the boss - whatever, I'm fine with that - but this change also makes it so you can't even go from Public Dungeon to Public Dungeon which is total crapola.

Volkoth

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Enundr wrote: »

General Rule of thumb after seeing how GW2 treated this subject NEVER SCREW WITH DROPS , didnt stop botters , WONT stop botters , never will stop botters. only hurts the player base , not the bots. hopefully this decision does a complete reversal before they lose more subscribers......if not well , youve made your bed zennimax , this is your first and only warning.

At least ZOS isn't deleting all the threads about it and banning people that point it out.

Oh and they at least had the decency to put it in the patch notes.

Not saying I like this change (it's crap - even a per boss timer would be fine compared to this), but they aren't quite at ArenaNet level yet.

That said, this change needs to go ASAP, as it only harms regular players, not bots.

I can see making it so you can't just camp the boss - whatever, I'm fine with that - but this change also makes it so you can't even go from Public Dungeon to Public Dungeon which is total crapola.

#truth

Enundr

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Enundr wrote: »

General Rule of thumb after seeing how GW2 treated this subject NEVER SCREW WITH DROPS , didnt stop botters , WONT stop botters , never will stop botters. only hurts the player base , not the bots. hopefully this decision does a complete reversal before they lose more subscribers......if not well , youve made your bed zennimax , this is your first and only warning.

At least ZOS isn't deleting all the threads about it and banning people that point it out.

Oh and they at least had the decency to put it in the patch notes.

Not saying I like this change (it's crap - even a per boss timer would be fine compared to this), but they aren't quite at ArenaNet level yet.

That said, this change needs to go ASAP, as it only harms regular players, not bots.

I can see making it so you can't just camp the boss - whatever, I'm fine with that - but this change also makes it so you can't even go from Public Dungeon to Public Dungeon which is total crapola.

diff is , this is not a free to play mmo , GW2 is (buy once and play for free) so really they dont have to worry beyond that , this game does not have that luxury.....it is something they have to be very careful about or lose people (which they have been since this patch went up) , if they wnat to differ themselves from Anet , then reverse this IMMEDIATELY and you know , actually LISTEN to the complaints. none of what theyve done affects bots , only affects the legit players that camp the bosses for loot (deconstruction , research traits , etc) and gems. this is a form of farming (aka camping) no matter how much you want to deny it , its always been in mmos and always will be , otherwise no point in being online when you could have just done a new ES game with just coop mode. at that point your not catering to try to sell to others , your just looking out for #1 , which of course isnt as farm intensive.

Lkory

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Enundr wrote: »

General Rule of thumb after seeing how GW2 treated this subject NEVER SCREW WITH DROPS , didnt stop botters , WONT stop botters , never will stop botters. only hurts the player base , not the bots. hopefully this decision does a complete reversal before they lose more subscribers......if not well , youve made your bed zennimax , this is your first and only warning.

At least ZOS isn't deleting all the threads about it and banning people that point it out.

Oh and they at least had the decency to put it in the patch notes.

Not saying I like this change (it's crap - even a per boss timer would be fine compared to this), but they aren't quite at ArenaNet level yet.

That said, this change needs to go ASAP, as it only harms regular players, not bots.

I can see making it so you can't just camp the boss - whatever, I'm fine with that - but this change also makes it so you can't even go from Public Dungeon to Public Dungeon which is total crapola.

doesn't even accomplish that... 10 mins loot timer sounds like 10x more bots

Just tested the loot timer over 5 boss kills in a nice troll cave (All solo elites). Wont work but doesnt even bother me just need to farm some thrash as well if i am not watching a show on my second screen.

I agree with every thing you said btw.

ChairGraveyard

@Lkory, exactly. The botters will just add extra accounts to make up the difference.

Congratulations ZOS, this change made the botting problem worse not better, and also screwed over normal players that just want to go from dungeon to dungeon sometimes.

I mean, given how grouping up is already an issue, I don't see how ZOS can afford to make one of the only areas where grouping is totally painless (public dungeons and world bosses) worse for groups, and that's what this does.

It's just really unfortunate, short-sighted and actually makes the problem they intend to fix worse.

I mean, what are they going to do when the bots move to regular mobs? Nerf the loot there? Put a global timer?

Either way, it just means more bots, and less real players as players get frustrated by the game stiffing them out of rewards for no good reason.

Edit: That said, I do highly appreciate being given notice about this change (even if it was impossible to point out how bad it was over the mountain of people that didn't understand the change, and so were in favor of it), and the fact that ZOS isn't sneakily deleting threads about it or banning the authors of the threads that have been posted. Quite refreshing after dealing with these same things from ArenaNet, who are not at all friendly to people questioning their sneaky loot nerfing.

aRealClassAct

The bots will just add extra accounts? Ok, that's another 60 dollars and they WILL be banned. No skin off my back.

I dream of the day where I can get to the end of a dungeon and have a rewarding fight with a boss without a bunch of douchnozzles standing there nuking the boss so I can barely get a hit in. If that was how the developers envisioned their game, they would not be implementing this change. Period.

Rare drops are supposed to be just that - RARE. Not something you can get every 2-3 minutes because you are sitting in one spot hitting one mob and ruining the experience for someone else who actually wants to fight the damn mob.

My favorite part is how everyone is complaining this wont get rid of bots even though Zenimax never even said it was intended to get rid of bots. I'll bet you anything it's intended to get rid of YOU. So people who play a game for enjoyments sake can actually enjoy it.

By the way, I have all blue gear, never farmed a boss sooooooo I have no idea where you are getting the idea that this is how you have to get money in ESO.

Lkory

aRealClassAct wrote: »

I dream of the day where I can get to the end of a dungeon and have a rewarding fight with a boss without a bunch of douchnozzles standing there nuking the boss so I can barely get a hit in. If that was how the developers envisioned their game, they would not be implementing this change. Period.

Well get to VR1 and enjoy having 2-3 farmer helping you kill bosses that would probably destroy you in a second.

Well not the case anymore...i spend more time waiting for other player than waiting on timer since tonight.

Enundr

Lkory wrote: »

aRealClassAct wrote: »

I dream of the day where I can get to the end of a dungeon and have a rewarding fight with a boss without a bunch of douchnozzles standing there nuking the boss so I can barely get a hit in. If that was how the developers envisioned their game, they would not be implementing this change. Period.

Well get to VR1 and enjoy having 2-3 farmer helping you kill bosses that would probably destroy you in a second.

Well not the case anymore...i spend more time waiting for other player than waiting on timer since tonight.

pretty much hit the nail in the head there , i bet NOTHING was given into thoughts on how this would affect the veteran zones , smh Zenni reverse this BS NOW , your going to end up losing more then its worth.

aRealClassAct

Enundr wrote: »

Lkory wrote: »

Well get to VR1 and enjoy having 2-3 farmer helping you kill bosses that would probably destroy you in a second.

Well not the case anymore...i spend more time waiting for other player than waiting on timer since tonight.

pretty much hit the nail in the head there , i bet NOTHING was given into thoughts on how this would affect the veteran zones , smh Zenni reverse this BS NOW , your going to end up losing more then its worth.

Guys..... get a group together. Put the "multiplayer" back in Massively multiplayer. I promise you if you actually have a challenging time doing something in this game then you will feel a really nice sense of accomplishment when you and a couple of guildies show up and win a hard fought battle. Definitely moreso than if you just stumbled into a group of 10 other players who are standing around swinging a sword at the air and melting down a mob as soon as it spawns. They are called bosses for a reason, they are supposed to be harder to beat.

Enundr

class , the fact that if youve killed ONE thing in the zone , you cant get loot from another....sorta promotes AGAINST the very thing you suggest....get the hint?

aRealClassAct

Enundr wrote: »

class , the fact that if youve killed ONE thing in the zone , you cant get loot from another....sorta promotes AGAINST the very thing you suggest....get the hint?

That's not how it works. You kill a boss and you can't get loot from another boss again for x minutes.

"Adjusted the time after you loot a delve or overworld boss before you are eligible to receive loot from these types of bosses again."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody has provided any evidence on exactly how long this timer lasts. Assuming the developers did this as a measures to prevent the effectiveness of camping bosses, they should have made the timer short enough that you can kill a boss, travel to another delve, and fight your way to another boss who will then give you loot (lets say 10 minutes?). So until someone comes out with the timer we can't say it interferes with playing the game the way that its creators intended.

krushbone

GG ZMO! Almost time to resub! Not going to now. Think I'll go play EVE some more and wait for Star Citizen to come out. I may take the money I was gonna use to resub and go buy crack instead. Thank you for making this game just another pile of bovine defecation!

Punche

I don't understand why this is such a big deal. You want to farm? I get just as many mats overall from killing normal npc enemies as I do farming world bosses and delves, that includes blue and sometimes epic drops. It's not like drop rates are abysmal in this game...

WraithAzraiel

OR they could strike the problem at the source and give themselves a nice chunk of time to put other roadblocks in place by just instituting naming restrictions

IE = if there's a name that is all lowercase, makes no sense or is something along the lines of xxslowjamz987 or Spurmslinger the Uterusromper - they get kicked to a rename window and temporarily banned until proof of humanity via one of those CAPTCHA thingers and a response to an email is given.

Dolenz

I was in a dungeon the other day and and trouble killing the boss, not because there were bots there, because there were not, but there was some player 20 levels higher than the rest of us demolishing the boss almost immediately

But according to the original poster that is somehow okay even though it effectively hurts the gameplay of others in the same manner as the botters?

Enundr

Dolenz wrote: »

I was in a dungeon the other day and and trouble killing the boss, not because there were bots there, because there were not, but there was some player 20 levels higher than the rest of us demolishing the boss almost immediately

But according to the original poster that is somehow okay even though it effectively hurts the gameplay of others in the same manner as the botters?

Ill give you a big hint , if theyre higher lvl then the mob , they tend to not get any loot.....aka he was there just to mess with you guys.

thomas.manzellaub17_ESO

Dolenz wrote: »

I was in a dungeon the other day and and trouble killing the boss, not because there were bots there, because there were not, but there was some player 20 levels higher than the rest of us demolishing the boss almost immediately

But according to the original poster that is somehow okay even though it effectively hurts the gameplay of others in the same manner as the botters?

When did I ever say this? My whole purpose for the post was me boss camping to get blue crafting mats to make armor for MY LEVEL or to sell the loot for gold.
You don't get loot if you're too high of a lvl for the boss.

Apples and oranges... You were getting trolled.


I rarely use knockbacks, When somebody else does I use shield charge which is a knock-down and stun so the mob cant get knocked back by the d bags.

I let other people tag too. I don't murder the boss. I cast 1 or 2 biting jabs and let others finish them off.

atthwsm

*Edited: Flame, Troll, profanations, curse and insults are obviously not allowed in our forums