REQUEST : Vampire balancing

Vizjun

AlliN wrote: »

another one...

BUT. Despite all of that, it is BALANCED. Shh, don't cry right now and keep reading, I'll explain everything now.

and then he says

But it's not the case, you can just stack multiple instances of Bat Swarm. That's what makes it broken.

yeah.

Let me picture that logic for you - If a chair has one leg broken, and 3 perfectly good legs - using above reasoning, it's a perfectly good and balanced chair.

Obviously you don't get my point. Even with a 0UP cost, if the ultimate couldn't stack multiple instances of Bat Swarm a simple Standard of Might from DK would completely ruin any vampire. "But you can mist form out of it" -> Dark Talons + Bash, here, you just broke Mist Form. Simple as that. I was just saying the ult itself is balanced, but the way you can endlessly stack multiple swarms is broken.

Borondir

You can negate the increased fire damage with fire resist glyphs.

And yes i hate people who think they must use these unbalanced skills in pvp. There are enough people who quit pvp because of this and this is hurting the community. No cheating but it is still lame.

Like someone already mentioned in another thread: give every ultimate a cooldown of 30 seconds and the problem will be solved. This would be a quick fix and they can finetune it later. At the moment it hurts the pvp community.

bugulu

patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »

You guys just dont know how to play then.
Silver bolts have a chance to do 1600dmg, use it maybe?

I've killed tons of vampires with it.

1600 damage? Wow, that's alot... not.
Reflective Scales, blocking with the shield negates your precious Silver Bolt damage.

If you think Silver Bolts does anything against a veteran rank 10 vampire killing a zerg by himself, then you clearly haven't met one in action.

withershadow

So basically the issue is stackable cost reduction, stackable bat swarm, a few overly synergistic DK abilities, and a whole slew of ignorant *** that say "just use silver bolts".

Vizjun

withershadow wrote: »

So basically the issue is stackable cost reduction, stackable bat swarm, a few overly synergistic DK abilities, and a whole slew of ignorant *** that say "just use silver bolts".

All my +1.

If you guys weren't on the PTS, there was a huge issue with the passive "Bloodrage" from the werewolf tree. Maybe you've heard of it, or seen it in videos/streams.

You could cast any ultimate every 1sec or 2sec if you were doing it right. Dragon Knights running around with a permanent Magma Armor, NBs casting Veil of Blades all day long, etc. It was even more broken (imo) than the actual Bat Swarm stacking.

And guess what? They included a 3 seconds ICD to Bloodrage, it completely ruined those builds. And I'm sure they will do the same for the vampire ultimate cost reduction or the fact you can stack multiple Bat Swarms at the same time.

Because let's face it. Critical Surge -> Streak -> spam Fire Ring in a zerg and with a 164UP cost gives me enough points to cast 5-6 Bat Swarms at the same time. And it will kill half of the zerg before I die.

Lorgren_Benirus

Funny to see vamps whine here how their OP abilities should not be nerfed because then they'll be too weak. Especially funny when those who have WW skill read this, since WW is "utter bollocks" already. Crazy ult cost to activate, temporary effect, abilities only work in WW form and abilities are completely and utterly useless. And then these vamps run around and wipe out whole raid size groups or take on multiple enemies at veteran levels and walk away pretty much scratch free while everyone else (non-vamp) gets mowed down if there are already 3 of those mobs against them. And then these vamps say "no no, we're not OP, we're weak". Stop your BS here on forums, WE CAN SEE WHAT VAMPS DO IN THE GAME. You're not convincing anyone, you just come off as a whiner who tries to justify the broken game mechanic which you use (or maybe we should say exploit) to your advantage.

And then their excuses "but fire hurts us" and "silver bolt kills us". What a BS. Every day in-game I see how these vamps simply roll over by fire spell casting mobs, sure the fire hurts but every other ability they have allow to totally negate all of that "hurt" (and it's ironic, in a sad way, how WW's get damaged by poison mobs and have absolutely no abilities like vamps do to negate it). Silver bolts? Excuse me but that's ONLY 5% chance to deliver extra kick. It means there's 95% chance you will NOT be affected. Funny how you keep quiet about that.

Frankly, vamps need to have more penalties as right now the penalties what they have are a joke, easily overcome - and many times - by their abilities. Vamps need to take constant damage while sun is out starting from stage 2 at least, and damage needs to increase with each stage, being highest at stage 4. At stage 2 and 3 vamps need to be shunned by NPC's because come on, frikkin' vamps walking in the city? Prices should be raised by NPC's for them for any service. At stage 4 vamps should be marked as KOS, that is every NPC's should con red, as an enemy to them. No sane person would allow a blasted blood sucking monster walk among them freely, and shop and bank and whatever. You want all that "cool power"? Well, face the consequences then as well.

Hexi

All it takes is one guy with a bow or a fire staff and the correct skill slotted to knock the vamp back and make their bat swarm meaningless.

The problem with PvP is that all you noobs just stack damage abilities and then wonder why you get owned, you're useless and should stick to PvE. It's laughable.

I fought a DK vamp one on one 2 days ago and he had no chance as he had no way to close the distance against me, none, zero. But hey, keep stading there casting crystal shards or poison arrows LOL.

Govalon

All people here who say it is easy to win vampires in pvp are lying. You either troll or do not pvp at all or both. I am a vampire myself and I do not believe that every person I meet in in pvp simply just sucks. If you come across me in pvp, you and your guild dies. If vampire knows how to play, you do not stand a chance against him with your little 40 man pvp-group

flow.currypoteb17_ESO

FIX BROKEN VAMPIRES

Anzaman

bugulu wrote: »

patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »

You guys just dont know how to play then.
Silver bolts have a chance to do 1600dmg, use it maybe?

I've killed tons of vampires with it.

1600 damage? Wow, that's alot... not.
Reflective Scales, blocking with the shield negates your precious Silver Bolt damage.

Only that Reflective Scales isn't Vampire ability.

I don't want to get nerf'd for nothing due some Dragon Knight ability, which I don't even have as Sorcerer.

Govalon

Lorgren_Benirus wrote: »

Prices should be raised by NPC's for them for any service. At stage 4 vamps should be marked as KOS, that is every NPC's should con red, as an enemy to them. No sane person would allow a blasted blood sucking monster walk among them freely, and shop and bank and whatever. You want all that "cool power"? Well, face the consequences then as well.

Fair enough if I, as a vampire can also kill you or anyone else anywhere in the world. This actually would be pretty awesome and would be even more tempting to be vampire.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

Hexi wrote: »

All it takes is one guy with a bow or a fire staff and the correct skill slotted to knock the vamp back and make their bat swarm meaningless.

The problem with PvP is that all you noobs just stack damage abilities and then wonder why you get owned, you're useless and should stick to PvE. It's laughable.

I fought a DK vamp one on one 2 days ago and he had no chance as he had no way to close the distance against me, none, zero. But hey, keep stading there casting crystal shards or poison arrows LOL.

I launched crystal shards and silver arrows on him - I spammed it at him. Did not even scratch that bugger. He only landed on his ass, which just gave me a bit more time to cast another crystal shard. Prison Runes, Restraining Prison did not work on him.
My Fire-Staff did not damage him even a tiny wee bit.

Being too low level and not strong enough with VR1 Level to take down a VR10 Vampire is OK - but what is NOT OK is that they do not even take a scratch from any maxed out (skill wise) dmg spell that got launched at them.

No player should have such an advantage that he can kill an entire Player-Raid sized group or even more alone or in duo - without any hussle. It still should be a struggle and painful for them - vampire or not!

If another player (group) has no real chance (I do not consider a weak ghost of a chance a real chance, sorry) against another player - not even just to be a pain in the ass to him - where is the point in PvP? Are we noobs, because the mechanics are broken and abused? I don't think so.

I guess the vampires you killed, either just made a mistake and did not spam their exploits in time - or you caught a lower level one who had not yet the full skill tree active or was inexperienced.

I am not playing this game and paying for it that some Mechanic-Exploiter can boost their ego on my behalf.

There needs to be a real point and it should not destroy the fun factor - and sorry - I do not consider constant easy wins nor constant instant death without having even seen any combat fun...

I prefer a pretty balanced forth and back between forces. I love a challenge that is a challenge and not a futile boring one-sided "Skill-Clone-Fest" because people exploit like ***.

If you guys want to keep your exploits - just don't abuse them. That is my suggestion.

And no! I am not jealous because I am not a vampire yet at VR1.
I do not want to have this character turned into a bloodsucker. He will go werewolf, even if that skill-tree is not as powerful and even if my class is not the best suited for it.
I want to roleplay and experience quests as I wish to - without becoming just another super-OP "skill-clone".

EDIT: Spelling

Jaxom

flow.currypoteb17_ESO wrote: »

FIX BROKEN VAMPIRES

We definitely needed this highly intelligent post. Not to mention you posted this twice in the same thread at different times. Keep up the work good sir.....

Ciedoc

Vamp is OP in PvP because players don't adjust to fighting the vampire. Vamps are deadly at close range. What is the common thing you see in all the video's and screenshots of the OP vamps? Thats right a bunch of people at close range. Move to range and you can negate most of what a vamp can do to survive. Not to mention Fighter guild abilities that destroy vampires and werewolves. Oh but that means you can't keep your uber skills on your bar and have to switch skills...QQ thats kind of the point of limiting skill bars as they are.

This isn't WoW where you can have every ability at your finger tips. You have to pick and chose the right skills for the right fight. If you don't want to use fighter guild skills...don't fight werewolves or vampires. The biggest thing you can do when you see a vamp is stay ranged. You take away 90% of their survivability by staying at range. They can't drain you to recover health. A group around a vamp the vamp can go person to person draining them once and seem invulnerable. When he can't drain you anymore bat swarm with the morph to gain health per enemy hit will keep him healed up because again lots of people around the vamp...lots of health to draw in.

Mist form...please you do realize that in mist form the vamp can not do ANYTHING. They are invulnerable to heals so if they bat swarm and go mist form they don't get heals. They are hard to target in mist form yes...kind of the point but you know what? AoE still hits them. And while they do take less damage for a few seconds enough aoe will still hurt them greatly. As long as idiots are not surrounding the vamp when they come out of mist form and fall victim to bat swarm to re-heal the vamp, the vamp should be hurting pretty good. Learn your prey and play smart.

The AoE nerf coming up is going to effect this a great deal but if you still have stupid people trying to melee a vamp, they will still drain, they will still bat swarm and heal. Get range, use fighter guild skills, and fire and vamps melt.

frwinters_ESO

Artemys_Knight wrote: »

I've 2shotted many vampires in PvP 1v1 with the Fighter's Guild skill line. When i PvP, I equip abilities from there to counter the vamp bandwagon, and they don't see it coming.

I dont want to waste a precious ability slot to equip an ability which was obviously designed for PvE. Ban the Vampires from PvP!

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Big cost increase are you all just outright blind? Cost increase is meaningless here the real issue is the fact the cost reduction is based of percentage! Basicaly the total is 100% because it stack with the vamp passive by default. We don't need to nerf vampire we need to nerf the offspec reduction stacking by adding it diminishing returns! Anything post 60% reduction should only reduce by 1%

of its 200 base cost its reduced by 60% by the stage 4
= 80
reduce the 200 by another 15% from sorcerer
= 50
Reduce it by 20% from akaviri
=10
Reduce it by 3 by seducer
=6
reduce by 5 by emperor
=0!
(Yea you people heard me that stacking IS the issue not the spell itself!)

Ill tell you the damn issue its the freaking percentage reduction stacking and that crap would apply to just any other ultimate! What needs to be done is to remove all those dumb item or make sure the subsecant reduction apply to 80 and not 200!

KoooZ

This video is quite possibly the most relevantly necessary of all to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS1BkF-TBng

Niminion

GET RID OF STAGE 4! That is the entire issue. Give any decent ability 60% + w/e else they can get, cost reduction, and since nothing has a cooldown it becomes OP. Stage 4 cost reduction is the biggest contributor to making these broken, just get rid of it or nerf the hell out of it.

Mistform is ok by itself, making it spammable is ridiculous and transforms it from a good emergency escape skill to the best defensive/mobility spell in the game by far. Same with bat swarm it is ok by itself but making it spammable is broken it goes from a good aoe drain to a raid wiping mega heal.

Same reason deadly bash became overpowered, giant % bonuses break things.

Zolyok

From reddit question with dev ;

When is batswarm going to be fixed?
ZOS_JessicaFolsom It's planned for a near future patch. It'll be in the patch notes when we do make adjustments to the skill.

Fixed the bug where multiple Bat Swarms can be stacked on the same Vampire.
Reduced the movement speed bonus during mist form to 30% (which makes it equivalent to the "Boundless storm" morph of Lightning form)
Reduced the Vampire ability cost reduction to 7% per stage

ChampionSheWolf

DitsyGirl wrote: »

If anything its dragon knight reflective scales ability that needs nerfed. Not Vampire.

Huh? you mean the shield reflect that ANYONE can get in the sword and board line? The only advantage a dragonknight has is the root ability, but any line can pull off the whole immortality thing as the prime abilities they use for magicka and survival are all in skill lines everyone can get.