Why the "I love The Elder Scrolls" argument is wrong

Moraisu

When you talk to players or when you read forums, such as this one, the notion that they went to this game because they love The Elder Scrolls Lore and they loved games like Syrim and Oblivion is just wrong!

You did not love the previous games for its lore, you loved the game because it was a First Person action RPG with great exploration elements and a certain degree of choice and not because of the game's lore, and I said that because this MMO is a The Elder Scrolls game lore-wise but not a The Elder Scrolls game like Syrim or Morrowind.

For starters it's a Tab targeting MMO, not a Action RPG (yes, the game has a crosshair but it's just a immersion tool, the game works just like a tab targeting MMO, that becomes very obvious if you play a ranged class/weapon), the game combat system has nothing to do with none of the previous The Elder Scrolls game.

There is no stealing, there is no real moral system in this game, there is no Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild (the two most cool guilds of all the game!) and in order to preserve the Lore for future real The Elder Scrolls VI they made this game 1000 years before the latest game, so whatever you do in this game has no meaning whatsoever in the game's lore.

This is generic MMO that uses the The Elder Scrolls lore, not a True The Elder Scrolls game, a true Elder Scrolls game offers choice, consequence, this game offers none.

Zaxq

Moraisu wrote: »

When you talk to players or when you read forums, such as this one, the notion that they went to this game because they love The Elder Scrolls Lore and they loved games like Syrim and Oblivion is just wrong!

You did not love the previous games for its lore, you loved the game because it was a First Person action RPG with great exploration elements and a certain degree of choice and not because of the game's lore, and I said that because this MMO is a The Elder Scrolls game lore-wise but not a The Elder Scrolls game like Syrim or Morrowind.

So you're telling people that what they think is wrong and what you think they are thinking is correct? Are you some sort of psychic?

This forum gets worse by the day.

Zaxq

Moraisu wrote: »

For starters it's a Tab targeting MMO, not a Action RPG (yes, the game has a crosshair but it's just a immersion tool, the game works just like a tab targeting MMO, that becomes very obvious if you play a ranged class/weapon), the game combat system has nothing to do with none of the previous The Elder Scrolls game.

Missed that bit - I havent pressed tab since I started, as the crosshair is a better targetting tool.

And Ive only played Bowspec NB the whole time. To VT7.

Youre talking rubbish.

Rosveen

I'm inclined to agree that due to being an MMO, ESO is fundamentally different from other TES games, but...

Literally the only reason I started playing this game is the lore.
I played Morrowind and Oblivion exclusively in third person for 6 years.
I've never used Tab in ESO.

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.

Nox_Aeterna

Yes and no OP.

While i agree with you , this game feels nothing like the other ES games , for starters , im not playing a rogue char. Which is something i never even did try in the ES single player games. And also playing this game in first person is just crazy , so i only use third person.

The class system is ... annoying, i never saw a ES game that locked out skill trees right at the start , which is trully a loss.

Still im quite enjoying the lore in general , the story in this game is quite huge , and im for the first time learning about all the races in length at once. It is fair to say , im only playing this game right now because of the story , which is the reason i will probably quit at vet 10.

Xaei

I don't really see how there isn't choice and consequence in the game. There's only a degree of choice and consequence you can put into a MMO before completely breaking it. ESO is already on the edge of breaking it with all the phasing.

If we can kill all the NPCs and steal everything like in Skyrim, then you'd end up with whole entire towns dead and every house empty.

About whatever you do having no consequence in the game's lore. I don't really get this argument. A huge part of lore is about what happened in the past, and this is exactly what happened in the past.

And before you say that none of the other TES games mentions it. I cannot think of one franchise where the lore isn't added upon ever.

Calaban

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I'll sleep better tonight now that I don't have to wonder what you think of the game.

Beryl

Moraisu wrote: »

When you talk to players or when you read forums, such as this one, the notion that they went to this game because they love The Elder Scrolls Lore and they loved games like Syrim and Oblivion is just wrong!

You did not love the previous games for its lore, you loved the game because it was a First Person action RPG with great exploration elements and a certain degree of choice and not because of the game's lore, and I said that because this MMO is a The Elder Scrolls game lore-wise but not a The Elder Scrolls game like Syrim or Morrowind.

Why are you telling us, other players, that our arguments or reasons to love some games is wrong? You have no right to do so.

Like others have mentioned here already, I never used TAB here and I never played Oblivion/Skyrim in first person view. I play games which I like and in a way I like. ESO has all the features I loved in other Elder Scrolls games. Unfortunately, it does not have enough of MMO features for my taste, but that's a different story.

Gisgo

Next time i need to know why im loving something ill call you.

Reinmard

Omg...I didnt know it until you said it, thanks you for telling me how I think, thanks...thank you so much, you are right I dont give a *** about Anu or Padomay which thanks to it is probably the only assasin creed with non a stupid objective or just "we kill for money or because we are good at it " lore!
"I have played Skyrim and the lore wasnt so awesome I prefer blizzard one" is pissing me off already, play all the TES, read the book while you play in-game and then come back.

Ygge

Moraisu wrote: »

You did not love the previous games for its lore, you loved the game because it was a First Person action RPG with great exploration elements and a certain degree of choice and not because of the game's lore, and I said that because this MMO is a The Elder Scrolls game lore-wise but not a The Elder Scrolls game like Syrim or Morrowind.

Do you want people to disagree with you? Cause' that's how you make people disagree with you.

Moraisu wrote: »

For starters it's a Tab targeting MMO, not a Action RPG (yes, the game has a crosshair but it's just a immersion tool, the game works just like a tab targeting MMO, that becomes very obvious if you play a ranged class/weapon), the game combat system has nothing to do with none of the previous The Elder Scrolls game.

Since no one takes any head to inertia (except when jumping!) and can run as irradically as they please the act aiming would be impossible without a crosshair-lock system in pvp.

Moraisu wrote: »

There is no stealing, there is no real moral system in this game, there is no Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild (the two most cool guilds of all the game!) and in order to preserve the Lore for future real The Elder Scrolls VI they made this game 1000 years before the latest game, so whatever you do in this game has no meaning whatsoever in the game's lore.

I believe those guilds are to be added in the future, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also, no elder scrolls game saves your choices between the games. Even if I side with Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion the lore in Skyrim will say that the champion helped defeat Dagon. The Nerevarine stopped Dagoth Ur. Every game assumes the previous heroes took the morally correct action presented.

Lore-wise, sure some things are a bit more cliche and not really anything we recognize from other Elder Scrolls games. I like to think of the world as more primal and simple. Also, some books have not been written yet according to earlier lore.. But, meh. We'll live. Also, I haven't grasped the whole Mannimarco thing. Pretty much lore surrounding him from nearly every Elder Scrolls game.

Moraisu wrote: »

This is generic MMO that uses the The Elder Scrolls lore, not a True The Elder Scrolls game, a true Elder Scrolls game offers choice, consequence, this game offers none.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree here too. The Mages Guild questline presented me with the hardest choice yet in my gaming history. Even after having played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.

Elember

Thing is though they are going to add Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild so those complaints are no good right off the bat.

No matter what you call it, ESO is actually a step above most theme park MMO's because it actually takes a while to level, some of the bosses are somewhat difficult especially they ones the force you to solo. Which by the way I think is the wrong approach, ALL quests should be open to group play and scale to the level of the group. Also all quests should have the multiplayer feature where if you need to pick up 4 items when the group leader picks an item up everyone in the group gets that item.

That is about all I am complaining about in ESO, the developer was too lazy to accommodate group play properly for an MMO and if they don't know how to do that then they should stick to making single player games.

The fact that Zenimax Online Studios was formed to make Elder Scrolls Online, and the key word there is ONLINE, means all quests should be open to group play, scale to the group, and work properly for multiplayer.

Blackhorne

Moraisu wrote: »

You did not love the previous games for its lore,

1. How do you know why I loved the previous games?
2. I loved them for many reasons, of which lore is in the top 1.

you loved the game because it was a First Person action RPG with great exploration elements and a certain degree of choice and not because of the game's lore,

Actually, Exploration is # 2 for me, RPG # 3, and First Person action is about # 7.

and I said that because this MMO is a The Elder Scrolls game lore-wise but not a The Elder Scrolls game like S[k]yrim or Morrowind.

Okay, there's your conclusion, now how do you back it up...?

For starters it's a Tab targeting MMO, not a Action RPG (yes, the game has a crosshair but it's just a immersion tool, the game works just like a tab targeting MMO, that becomes very obvious if you play a ranged class/weapon), the game combat system has nothing to do with none of the previous The Elder Scrolls game.

Play a ranged character in Skyrim or Oblivion and there's not as much action as in melee, either, because the entire point of a ranged character is to kill your foe before you experience the action (e.g, get hit with the mace). This game has active attacks, blocking, and dodging, just like earlier Elder Scrolls games. It also has an action bar like MMOs.
Because of the client-server model, there has to be some change to the combat, but this is definitely a lot closer to action RPG than any other MMO I've seen.

There is no stealing,

So you haven't done the Wine quests in Stonefalls, then?

there is no real moral system in this game,

And haven't finished the Mages Guild questline either, then?

there is no Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild

YET.

and in order to preserve the Lore for future real The Elder Scrolls VI they made this game 1000 years before the latest game, so whatever you do in this game has no meaning whatsoever in the game's lore.

Okay, here's where you really lose me. The Elder Scrolls games from Arena on all take place in very different times across a history that spans millennia. None of the actions in any of the games have a significant effect on either their prequels or sequels.

Skyrim, for example, owes more to its plot to the Great War and the White-Gold Concordat than anything from Oblivion.

In ESO, as in every Elder Scrolls game, you have a significant role in a specific event in the history of Nirn, but one that does not generally tie significantly in with other games in the series.

This is generic MMO that uses the The Elder Scrolls lore, not a True The Elder Scrolls game, a true Elder Scrolls game offers choice, consequence, this game offers none.

If you haven't seen the choices and consequences in this game, then you haven't been paying attention.

Moraisu

It would seem that I did not explain my point correctly.

I was (am) not stating what you did or did not love about the game, I was referring that there is a very important different between the previous The Elder Scrolls game in terms of mechanics and in terms of Lore. I understand that I did not phrase my opinion the best way possible.

I was merely stating that, for some, liking a previous TES game might have nothing to do with the Lore but with the game itself, one might even state that most players that loved Skyrim have no idea about the TES lore and just liked the freedom to go around looting stuff, exploring and killing dragons.

So, what I was trying to say is that, if you remove the notion that this game's lore is based on The Elder Scrolls and just focus on the way the combat system / questing / leveling works and you compare it with previous games you understand that they have very little in common.

And, yes, this game uses a proximity based targeting system, your actions are based on the last mob your crosshair targeted (if you are using a bow you can point at a mob, arm you arrow, turn around, shoot and the arrow will hit the mob, thus firing at said mob not because your were aiming at it but just because you selected that target... thus the "tab targeting" comment).

If you want a example of a real crosshair targeting MMO check Tera or DC Universe Online for a notion of how proximity based combat should work. I'm nor saying that this is a bad game, it's just it's a generic MMO that uses the The Elder Scrolls lore and not a MMO the uses the TES game mechanics that made the previous games famous.

In fact, if it weren't due to public demand, this game would not even have a first person view... that sould give you an idea of how "true" to the TES core this game was planed to be.

Covarnis

.. well to each its own. I can assure you, that I abandoned probably otherwise great games because of shallow, superficial and uninteresting lore (including WoW and GW2). Of course the amount of choice and freedom like in single player is impossible (yet?) in MMO. but to my understanding ESO does a lot of things better (especially in the sphere of questing, phasing, combat builds, immersion etc) that other offerings on the market. I'm curious to see how it develops. All the main things people are complaining about are actually minor and temporary problems, the very solid basis is there. Well, let's live and see.

joanjett

Ok from now on i will only let others think for me.
Tell me what is good and not good who to vote for....ect ect ect....
You sure this ain't lib 101?

Xaei

Ocarina of Time didn't have a top-down view. That game sucks.

Phazzle

How would they incorporate combat elements from the previous game into this MMO? For instance when I used my bow in Skyrim the 'world' would slow down. That is impossible to do in an MMO (it would screw up PvP for one)!

I think a lot of people bought this game expecting it to be another single player title and that is leading to a disconnect among some players. The people who bought ESO expecting it to be an MMO are quite satisfied, I think--apart from the phasing problems.

Armoril

Moraisu wrote: »

When you talk to players or when you read forums, such as this one, the notion that they went to this game because they love The Elder Scrolls Lore and they loved games like Syrim and Oblivion is just wrong!

They were wrong when they said they loved the Elder Scrolls games? How can you be wrong about your own opinion?

Sir, you've been hitting the Skooma

Saerydoth

I hereby refute your entire argument with a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman

MasterSpatula

And all this time, I thought I knew me. All these years, I thought I was playing these games for the story and the rich world. Thank you, OP, for setting me straight.

Sakiri

Lore nerd here.
MMO nerd here.
Wasnt expecting TES 6. Was expecting wow in ES skin. Pleasantly surprised.

Still annoyed with solo only quest lines. I have bad player friends I want to help damn it.

jorj82

I believe your argument to be flawed. Perhaps it could be true for people who picked up the series in the XBox days, but you do not speak for me and many others who started with Arena, and then played Daggerfall. I highly doubt those games would be considered "action rpg". These games came from an era when lore could make or break a game, regardless of graphics and game mechanics. The Elder Scrolls is the only video game series from those days that's still held my interest after all these years. And yes, it's all about the lore

theerin

AWESOME!!! Thanks for letting me know what my opinion was, OP!!! Now, what's my opinion on current world events because I'm just dying to know what I think about that...

tryia3b14a_ESO

Daggerfall was my first Elder Scrolls game, and believe me when I say that I enjoyed it for reasons other than its weird controls and combat system. That game was from an era where the user just had to try to make due with the controls that were provided.

I bought Morrowind only because it was in the same world (had the same lore) and not for its questionable combat design choices. I remember fighting a scrib for like 5 minutes as it kept paralyzing me until I eventually died, unable to do anything because when I wasn't paralyzed I was swinging and missing 100 times in a row.