Basic Role Guidelines (Armor)

zgrssd

I have been answering a ton of "wich armor shold I choose" questions, both ingame and on the forum. So far nobody has ever disagreed with what I said, so I asume that those are true enough to be written down once for future reference. The Rules of the game and the Roles (state 1.0.5) are:

1. Class does not say anything about role
Telling me you are a "level 34 Templar" is about as usefull as saying "level 34 Character". There is some synergy between certain roles and classes as there is between some roles and races but every class can play every role.

2. What defines Role are the Weapon and Armor you choose, with armor being the slightly more important part (it's easier to switch weapon then armor).

3. The armor provided by armor is a secondary concern. Armor's primary purpose is to give bonuses that support the role via thier skilline passives. If you are not investing into armor skills you might as well run around in heavy regardless of role (because then you at least have some decent armor rating).
The only way to improove Spell Resistance at all is via the Passives.

4. This is only a basic guide. It will not hold up in the most extreme MinMaxing Scenarios. Like very late game and PvP/AvA. But it will still give you the right ideas.

Light Armor: If you are heavily using any class skills, Destruction Staff, Restoration Staff, Mages Guild or Undaunted Skills this is the Armor to go.
The skills drop magika costs, improove magica regeneration, spell crit and spell penetration. It also has the most impressive amount of spell Resistance bonus (via passives and the active).
Healer and Spell/Class based DPS is what these are all about. If I have any reason to give a character light armor, it often also has the healer role (so easier to find groups for Dungeons).

Medium Armor: Any weapon skill other then Staffs and 1 handed with Shield, this is the armor to go. Plain and simple this is non-spell, non-class DPS armor. It boosts Skill Critical chance, Stamina Regeneration and Attack Speed.
It also has some buffs for Stealth, Sprinting and Dodge Roll Costs making it a good idea for everyone valueing stealth or mobility.

Heavy Armor: This combined with 1 Handed and Shield is just plain the Tank armor. It has the best base armor rating of all armors and passives that further improove the Armor/Spell Resistance, Health Regeneration, Healing Received and Block Cost.
There is a boost to Weapon attack power, but before you choose heavy as DPS armor you have to be certain that this one cancels out the lack of the stamina regen and Crit Chance Provided by Medium Armor. Few things can make healers life as hard as a DPS that is not dealign enough damage agaisnt the proper targets.
It might also be possible to use Mage Guild Equilibrium skill to make a heavy armored spellslinger/healer.
Be advised that high Armor alone is not what makes a good tank. Proper direction of aggro and use of Block/Dodge is almost as important as high armor and easily healability.


The "Overcharge and Heavy Armor" problem:
Once you do select a proper tank built (maybe with some class buffs, racial buffs or higher quality armor) you will run into "Overcharge" on both Resistances. Basically it means you are pretty good already (for your level) and should consider investing into other things instead.
Overcharge is often called the "Softcap". For Armor and Spell Resistance it appears at about 33% mitigation*. There is also a hardcap at 50% mitigation*, but due to the softcap it is not likely to ever be reached.

There are three basic ways to deal with Overchage on Armor (and thus when tanking):
"High values are only for those commited": Basically this says "I don't care for overcharge, I just keep adding too it". There might be less return for the investment, but there still is a return. As long as you do not reach the hardcap more is still helping.

"Mix and match Armor": You only keep 5 pieces of heavy and take two of light/medium armor. This approach unlocks some bonuses from the other armor line while still retaining the Block cost reduction and most of the other passive effects of the heavy.
Especially with the high amount of usefull class/mages guild skills for tanks and the much bigger boost to spell resistance the "5 Heavy + 2 Light" combo seems to be common in lategame.

"Time go use something else": This accepts that your armor might not be the best or even approach the hardcap, but is good enough. Heavy armor gave you enough armor already that you don't need to waste further traits, enchatments and skillslots on boosting it anymore.
Heavy Armor freed up ressources for other things beside armor rating, so look for decreased Crit Damage (Impenetrable Trait), Elemental Resistance and Max Life/Magika/Stamina boosts. All of those make the tanks and/or healers life easier. It is closely related to the mix and match armor.

What is a spell and what is a skill/weapon?
This is the information most often said. I am not sure how accurate it is*:
If it uses Stamina, it is considered a weapon/skill. Wich leads to odd effects like "boost melee damage" to improve Bow use. And the bash damage done by staves.
If it uses Magika, it is considered a spell. It uses spell crit and is resisted by spell resistance.
If it uses both Stamina and Magika, it is considered a Skill. Stamina seems to go "first" and once it found a match noting else is considered.

Relative Armor values and Skill Bonuses per Armor Type (Armor values from white Veteran 10 according to crafting menu):



Light
Medium
Heavy


Chest
146
220
269


Feet
128
192
235


Hand
73
110
134


Head
128
192
235


Legs
128
192
235


Shoulders
128
192
235


Waist
54
82
100


Total
785
1180
1443


Armor value relative to heavy
54,40%
81,77%
100%


1st Passive
# * 1/2/3% less magika cost
# * 1/2/3% Weapon Crit
# * 1/2/3% more Armor
&
# * 1/2/3% more Spell Resistance


2nd Passive
# * 2/4% more max magika
# * 2/4% Stamian Regen
# * 2/4% Health Regen


3rd Passive
# * 4/8% more Spell Resistance
# * 3/6% less detection radius
&
# * 4/8% less stealth cost
# * 0.5/1% Weapon Power


4th Passive(5 set bonus)
5/10% higher Spell Crit
5/10% more attack speed
10/20% cheaper Block


5th Passive
# * 3/6% Spell Penetration
# * 2/4% more Sprint Speed
&
# * 2/4% less dodge roll cost
# * 0.5/1% more healing



(this was autogenerated BB Code, not sure why it is not being processed by the Forum).

Hope that helps and I did not get anything seriously wrong.

*In those cases I am only repeating what others have said. I cannot take any guarantee for accuracy and of course it might change in later version.

zgrssd

First correction already:
Magic Resistance seems to be totally unrelated to armor worn. It seems to be 100+(level times 20). That means the only way to boost spell resistance is via the passive skills of the armor line, racial passives and active skills.

Edit: Worked this into the above post.

GhostRunner521

Any numbers to support the theory that heavy armor dps can not be as good as medium armor dps?

It seems to me that one adds power to your attacks, the other crit chance. Wouldn't a 2hander or dual wielding swords make more use out of adding power behind the attacks. Also unless you plan to sneak why not go with heavy armor and take less damage.

To me it seems to just be an issue of what do you want to do between fights. Drink a health potion or drink a stamina potion.

Niminion

GhostRunner521 wrote: »

Any numbers to support the theory that heavy armor dps can not be as good as medium armor dps?

It seems to me that one adds power to your attacks, the other crit chance. Wouldn't a 2hander or dual wielding swords make more use out of adding power behind the attacks. Also unless you plan to sneak why not go with heavy armor and take less damage.

To me it seems to just be an issue of what do you want to do between fights. Drink a health potion or drink a stamina potion.

Math.

Any numbers to support your theory?

GhostRunner521

Niminion wrote: »

GhostRunner521 wrote: »

Any numbers to support the theory that heavy armor dps can not be as good as medium armor dps?

It seems to me that one adds power to your attacks, the other crit chance. Wouldn't a 2hander or dual wielding swords make more use out of adding power behind the attacks. Also unless you plan to sneak why not go with heavy armor and take less damage.

To me it seems to just be an issue of what do you want to do between fights. Drink a health potion or drink a stamina potion.

Math.

Any numbers to support your theory?

I'm not yet max level nor do I have the time to find out all the different calculations if I wanted to.

I was hoping the OP had something to backup the claims against heavy armor. Sure it's one thing to tell players don't wear this type of armor unless you are going sword and shield and do not wish to tank. It's a totally different thing to give them the absolute facts as to why you should ignore it.

Let's take the stamina regen into account for instance. Let's say you have a base stamina regeneration rate of 70 at level 50. If you go full medium you have 28% more so instead of 70 every two seconds you would get 70 * 1.28 = 89.6.

So is 20 extra stamina every two seconds worth the decrease in health regeneration and armor? Or could it be that when it comes to armor it's much harder to claim only one is for dps, one for tanks, and one for casters as the case is with most games.

zgrssd

GhostRunner521 wrote: »

Any numbers to support the theory that heavy armor dps can not be as good as medium armor dps?

I never said anything like that.
I said: "There is a boost to Weapon attack power, but before you choose heavy as DPS armor you have to be certain that this one cancels out the lack of the stamina regen and Crit Chance Provided by Medium Armor."
Power should propably outclass the Crit Chance. Crit Chance + Stamina Regen, now that is an entirely different mater. More Stamina means more skill use for longer times, wich means more damage.

I never said it was a generally bad idea, just that you have to be aware of both parts that you are missing when comparing.

GhostRunner521

zgrssd wrote: »

GhostRunner521 wrote: »

Any numbers to support the theory that heavy armor dps can not be as good as medium armor dps?

I never said anything like that.
I said: "There is a boost to Weapon attack power, but before you choose heavy as DPS armor you have to be certain that this one cancels out the lack of the stamina regen and Crit Chance Provided by Medium Armor."
Power should propably outclass the Crit Chance. Crit Chance + Stamina Regen, now that is an entirely different mater. More Stamina means more skill use for longer times, wich means more damage.

I never said it was a generally bad idea, just that you have to be aware of both parts that you are missing when comparing.

You are right, I was mistaken in the direction in which your post was tailored.

Ker.Rakb16_ESO

zgrssd wrote: »

What is a spell and what is a skill/weapon?
This is the information most often said. I am not sure how accurate it is*:
If it uses Stamina, it is considered a weapon/skill. Wich leads to odd effects like "boost melee damage" to improve Bow use. And the bash damage done by staves.
If it uses Magika, it is considered a spell. It uses spell crit and is resisted by spell resistance.
If it uses both Stamina and Magika, it is considered a Skill. Stamina seems to go "first" and once it found a match noting else is considered.

Hope that helps and I did not get anything seriously wrong.

I don't doubt that people say this, but it's wrong in a few ways.

The most important one is that many/all (?) melee-range class skills like Veiled Strike use physical crit chance instead of spell crit chance. If you want to use VS as your primary source of damage, you need to balance the crit chance boost from medium against the straight magicka/damage boost from light armor.

You might also add that some attacks scale off the attacker's health, like the burn damage on Force Shock.

One thing I'm not sure about myself is how poison and flame damage resists are calculated. If I shoot somebody with poison arrow, do I only roll against their poison resist, or also against their spell resist or armor? Do fire spells go up against spell resist+flame resist, or just against flame resist? I have no clue.

Marukeru

In regards to OP, and asking fellow members around,

I am playing a Lv35 NightBlade "Warlock" (I am going to craft a full set of gear for lv36). The Build is very Magicka intensive, as I have NO stamina skills on either bar. One bar is focused on AoE - combining Shadow, Siphoning and Destro skills; while the other focuses more on Single target skills from similar lines.

All of that in mind, I am sitting on the fence of whether or not I should go Full 7 Light to get maximum Bonuses to Spell Resist, Spell Crit, Spell cost and Magicka Regen OR if I should go 5L/2H to gain some durability through armor, HP regen and greater Spell resistance.

So, not only am I on the fence for which way to go, but, should I settle on 5L/2H, which is a good route to go for choosing the 2 Heavy pieces? I'm a very aesthetic player, but also want functionality. I feel that going for Max armor with Chest/Legs just looks too clunky and I lose the aspect of a Mage, while I am unsure if going with Heavy Hand/Feet would provide enough defense to warrant using Heavy over Light in those areas.

Am I going to lose out and get thrashed in Dungeons and/or PvP for using 7 Light? I have a fantastic Bloodmage that I play with, and he does an amazing job of keeping any player with the slightest bit of grey-matter in their heads alive, so would I be okay with 7Light?

I appreciate any and all insight provided from everyone.

Still_Mind

Heavy armour is pretty useless in endgame. By miles. You can easily cap out on armour with armour jewellery and class powers, but you get so much more effective Magicka (that can be used for mitigation, CC, sustenance, Ulti generation-which leads to more mitigation) that the measly Heavy passives look like an April's Fool's joke.

I suppose you may wear a Heavy chestpiece if you aren't fond of the whole "man in a dress" look. Or you could wear a disguise\costume.

zgrssd

Still_Mind wrote: »

Heavy armour is pretty useless in endgame. By miles. You can easily cap out on armour with armour jewellery and class powers

And there just is the thing: Doing so costs you Skill Points. Jewelry Slots. Possibly Skill Slots on your Quickbar. Trait slots on your gear you have to fill with Defending/Impenetrable. Possibly set places. All much rarer resources then Armor Slots.
Heavy would allow you to reach the cap while still having all your Skillpoints, Jewelry Slots and Quickslots free for other usefull stuff. And a full host of non-capped setbonuses to choose from.

Still_Mind

zgrssd wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

Heavy armour is pretty useless in endgame. By miles. You can easily cap out on armour with armour jewellery and class powers

And there just is the thing: Doing so costs you Skill Points. Jewelry Slots. Possibly Skill Slots on your Quickbar. Trait slots on your gear you have to fill with Defending/Impenetrable. Possibly set places. All much rarer resources then Armor Slots.
Heavy would allow you to reach the cap while still having all your Skillpoints, Jewelry Slots and Quickslots free for other usefull stuff. And a full host of non-capped setbonuses to choose from.

Dunno, I've got, like 240 skillpoints atm, and I don't feel restricted, at all.

No point in "extra quickslots", if you don't have the resources to back them up.

Don't get me wrong, you can tank in heavy armour just fine. It's just that how much more you can do in light, without really sacrificing anything of value (20% block cost reduction is the only thing that comes close). Heavy passives are just too mediocre.

zgrssd

Still_Mind wrote: »

It's just that how much more you can do in light, without really sacrificing anything of value (20% block cost reduction is the only thing that comes close).

I can agree that the Health Regen is rather uselesss outside of solo play (just to slow to make a difference). And the power boost is inferior to any other armors damage boosts.
But the other bonuses seem usefull:
The block cost reduction stays important, as you have to block a lot.
The Increased healing received (up to 7%) is important part of tanking. You will take more damage then most, it helps preserving the healers mana. And that is before you consider self-heals and class abilities.
The armor increase - tricky. It does affect armor gained from non-heavy armor so it helps to mitigate any losses. But we were already at the limit. And it might not be bad to leave some room for buffs to increase them further.

Moonchilde

Balderdash. Poppycock.

A lowbie Sorcerer in Bound Armor has higher physical and spell resist than any conventional tank in plate. Heavy armor needs a massive boost in both natural armor and spell resist values, and way better passives (at the expense of casting costs and speed).

Only if this is done, will a tank wearing real physical heavy armor be able to even compete with a sorc tank or light armor resist tank.

zgrssd

Moonchilde wrote: »

Balderdash. Poppycock.

A lowbie Sorcerer in Bound Armor has higher physical and spell resist than any conventional tank in plate. Heavy armor needs a massive boost in both natural armor and spell resist values, and way better passives (at the expense of casting costs and speed).

The thing is, this costs you one Quick Slot. Propably on both bars. One slot less you can use for active abilities.

And if I play a Sorc Tank with Heavy, Bound Armor I actually get close to hardcap. And reach it with Lightning form or similar buffs.

Moonchilde

zgrssd wrote: »

The thing is, this costs you one Quick Slot. Propably on both bars. One slot less you can use for active abilities.

And if I play a Sorc Tank with Heavy, Bound Armor I actually get close to hardcap. And reach it with Lightning form or similar buffs.

Right, its no different for us - if we want the best out of the heavy armor line, we have to sacrifice a quickslot for Unstoppable, pay for it with Stamina, and only get it 8 seconds at a time. Bound Armor is always on.

Marukeru

Yea, decided to go full 7 Light. Better spell cost, better Magicka regen, as well as some Spell crit and Spell Resist.
I still overcharge armor by like 800 when I'm with my Bloodmage (which is always!) so I think I'll be fine

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Last time I checked, light armor was good for any role.