Heavy armor sorcerer: 2H, DW, or staff?

ZenMonkey

I've enjoyed DK in beta and live, but I think I want something more magicky. I was thinking about rolling a sorcerer and putting him in heavy armor as sort of a battlemage, but I'm not sure what weapon would be best for this. I lean towards 2H but someone else suggested dual wielding swords or axes would be better. I'm guessing staves aren't the best for this kind of build, but please tell me if I'm wrong. Thanks for any suggestions you may have!

JoxerHD

Sorceror gets so many magicka regenerating/cost reduction etc etc abilities, I dont see why a heavy armored sorc wielding a staff wouldn't work.

ElSlayer

1H+Shield, using OP bash?

kasain

I like two handed weapons. Stampede, uppercut serves me well. Especially when you have some bosses with mobs all over. Stampede can move you instantly to hit and nuke death. Back up weapon should be a restore staff though

SexyVette07

Coming from a Sorcerer, I honestly think DK is better for what type of role you want. However, if you are dead set on rolling Sorcerer, dual wield would be my suggestion. Destruction staff is a joke, with the exception of Pulsar.

ZenMonkey

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Coming from a Sorcerer, I honestly think DK is better for what type of role you want.

Yeah, I'll be keeping my baby DK around in case I fail at this endeavor. But I wanted to take full advantage of ESO's flexible skill system and see if I can create something new and fun for me.

Thanks everyone for the weapon suggestions. Your responses and further reading have given me good ideas about different ways I might go.

zamiel

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Destruction staff is a joke, with the exception of Pulsar.

I disagree with you. Pulsar is godly (especially since I'm a NB). Elemental blockade is okay. Fire clench however lets you solo about all the world/dugneon bosses with ease which is extremely handy. Especially in veteran levels when these hit for a good 1k damage and due to adds you don't have any room to move.

SexyVette07

zamiel wrote: »

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Destruction staff is a joke, with the exception of Pulsar.

I disagree with you. Pulsar is godly (especially since I'm a NB). Elemental blockade is okay. Fire clench however lets you solo about all the world/dugneon bosses with ease which is extremely handy. Especially in veteran levels when these hit for a good 1k damage and due to adds you don't have any room to move.

Destructive clench is good at low levels, but its not as good as Restraining Prison with the passive to increase crit on targets of dark magic by 15%. Plus it hits all targets not just one.

Edit, keep in mind that the topic is sorcerers. I realize you said you are a NB, but my opinion of the staff was based on the sorcerer class, not NB.

zamiel

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Edit, keep in mind that the topic is sorcerers. I realize you said you are a NB, but my opinion of the staff was based on the sorcerer class, not NB.

Yes, I was aware.
Restraining prison is awesome against lots of trash, however it's useless against boss mobs as it roots them in place only. Clench knocks them back giving you breathing space and also it (obviously) breaks any casting, channeled abilities and stuns&knocks down.

You rarely have enough space to kite a world/dungeon boss, not mentioning that restraining prison costs a good 50% more mag.

I'm not bashing on restraining prison, it's an awesome cast, but against single target mobs destructive clench is far superior.

Edit: I also think you underappreciate Elemental Blockade. It's insanely cheap - it only costs 364 magicka on 50 and with some pretty low stats (2k mag, 100 weapon damage) it deals 352 damage throughout its duration. It's one of the best damage to magicka ratio out there for AoE spells, so if you are not in a hurry you definitely get the most bang for your buck with it. Not that it currently matters as mob resits are low but you theoretically are able to always hit elemental weakness with it as it's 3 spells in one.

SexyVette07

zamiel wrote: »

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Edit, keep in mind that the topic is sorcerers. I realize you said you are a NB, but my opinion of the staff was based on the sorcerer class, not NB.

Yes, I was aware.
Restraining prison is awesome against lots of trash, however it's useless against boss mobs as it roots them in place only. Clench knocks them back giving you breathing space and also it (obviously) breaks any casting, channeled abilities and stuns&knocks down.

You rarely have enough space to kite a world/dungeon boss, not mentioning that restraining prison costs a good 50% more mag.

I'm not bashing on restraining prison, it's an awesome cast, but against single target mobs destructive clench is far superior.

I dont have access to the game at the moment, but im pretty sure its not that high, maybe 25-33% more, but I dont think its 50% more. At any rate, they both have their uses. As long as the mob isnt free casting while at ranged, ill still stick with Restraining Prison. At max rank, it roots and snares for about 10 seconds. Cant ignore the 15% additional crit either and it heals you for 5% max health every time you use it. I use Crystal Shards anyway, which knocks down the same as Clench as long as they arent immune. So in almost every circumstance, Destructive Clench is just a waste of a skill slot for me.

jbrenston

I've actually create the exact build that you are talking about. I have a High Elf Sorc that wears (mostly) heavy armor and uses a 2H sword. I'm lvl 14 atm so i haven't ran into the delima of having to choose a secoundary weapon. I honestly think I'm going to roll with two 2H sword. I'm waiting until I unlock weapon swapping before I put any points in stamina.

So far I love the build! I don't know the exact name of the abilities off hand but I'm running with Crystal Shards, Encase, Summon Familiar, Mages Fury, Cleave, and overload for my ultimate. As long is my summon is alive, in most cases I can tae down 3 mobs 2 lvls higher than me. If things really get hairy I can toggle on my ultimate.

zamiel

SexyVette07 wrote: »

I dont have access to the game at the moment, but im pretty sure its not that high, maybe 25-33% more, but I dont think its 50% more...

It's 532 vs 364, so it's 46% more.
Character skills are usually extremely costly, weapon skills (especially destro stuff) are really low-budget skills.

SexyVette07

zamiel wrote: »

SexyVette07 wrote: »

I dont have access to the game at the moment, but im pretty sure its not that high, maybe 25-33% more, but I dont think its 50% more...

It's 532 vs 364, so it's 46% more.

Ah so I was wrong. Either way, magicka is a non issue once you get dark exchange leveled up and Crystal Shards is like two spells packdd into one, our highest single target dps and knockdown built in.

I understand the appeal of Destructive Clench for other classes though.

ElSlayer

@ZenMonkey, you are using words like "better" or "best for build", but have never actually told us your build's purpose.

Will it be PvP or PvE?
Solo or group?
What role or functions do you want to fill?

ZenMonkey

jbrenston wrote: »

I've actually create the exact build that you are talking about. I have a High Elf Sorc that wears (mostly) heavy armor and uses a 2H sword

Thanks for the input. Glad you're enjoying it! That does sound like what I'm going for.

ElSlayer wrote: »

@ZenMonkey, you are using words like "better" or "best for build", but have never actually told us your build's purpose.

*sigh* I usually remember to include that info; I think I was just too excited by the idea when I posted! Sorry about that. I play mostly solo PVE, and this is a levelling build so for the most part I'm looking for the DPS. I'm not planning for the endgame (since I play lazycore it's anyone's guess if I'll even make it there!), but I'm always willing to respec at max level if I want to adjust for what I'm doing then.

So, essentially, it doesn't make a world of difference because I don't PVP at all, and I only crunch numbers if there's obviously something really wrong with my build. (I do find discussions like the one above by @zamiel‌ and @SexyVette07‌ very helpful though.) I was just wondering whether there was an "obvious" choice. Which seems to be "the one you like the best." I'll probably go 2H/DW when I can swap.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

I'll share my bit on this. Breton sorcerer, lvl 43 now, racials all maxed whenever available, and 5 points into light armor and a couple more into medium. The reason why I was sort of 'trapped' into magicka addiction is because our class skills are so powerful for single target dps.

From the start I have always wanted a bow and something else. I put some SPs into bows but guess what, the majority of my damage (from lv 0-now) is basically 3 skills : Crystal Fragments morphed, Velocious Curse morphed and Mages Fury morphed. For bows its poisonous arrow and some passives, and it turns out my bow is just used for stamina sink (to balance so that I dont run out of magicka and still have full stam). The last slot is usually reserved for my clannfear. I never even have the need to swap weapons so my other 5 slot is almost obsolete.

This setup works wonders when leveling. But I got addicted to magicka so much I didnt realize I was actually setting myself up for glass cannon build. Spamming those 3 skills meant magicka was a problem. Sometimes pot is not enough sometimes is does. I got to the point where I hit softcap on mag.recovery and mag. amount. Lo and behold, I entered Reapers March. Lv 40. If i happen to aimlessly wander into a pack of 3 mobs, with 5L2M setup, I will actually die if i dont gulp a potion or have health buffs.

Just be careful with our class abilities, sometimes they felt so powerful until the game fights back on later levels. Now i am 5H2L with dual wield and faring quite a bit better on survivability

Varivox9

I personally like my 2h sorc atm. The nice thing is that with Surge + bound armaments (even if the daedric skin is a bit ugly imo), I not only get overcharged weapon damage, I get easy overcharged armour with extra 8(?)% damage on heavy attacks. I don't even need much in the way of heavy armour as long as I use bound armour (lightning form is a good survival skill too) and I can use light armour passives to further my already great magicka regen. I don't think duel wield or 2h are a bad option, desto staff gets boring fast imo (they feel like I'm trying to wield a sparkler at my opponent...).

Sorc is a great class with a lot of flexibility, you really can't go wrong.

ZenMonkey

Varivox9 wrote: »

I don't even need much in the way of heavy armour as long as I use bound armour (lightning form is a good survival skill too) and I can use light armour passives to further my already great magicka regen.

I was planning to stick with heavy armor, but I'll be sure to put points into light armor if/when I reach the point where I need more magicka than armor. I just really like the idea of a mage in heavy armor, since it's not something you can play in most games, but I realize that might end up gimping me later on.

Crescent

Stick with Dual Wield, it's superior damage sustained. Get blood craze, regen from resto staff+ cycle of life for that 10% extra damage. Save your magicka for thundering presence and surge precasts alongside the regen.

Things at vet rank hit really, really hard, so you either need to be full glass cannon to kill them before they kill you, or have enough self healing to last.

Don't use plate, it's worthless and a leather sorc will get you far more healing.

That's all assuming range.

The only situation where 2h shines is on large packs of mobs where you cleave spam with brawler. For every other scenario dual wield is superior, with much better single target dps for bosses.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

Crescent wrote: »

Stick with Dual Wield, it's superior damage sustained. Get blood craze, regen from resto staff+ cycle of life for that 10% extra damage. Save your magicka for thundering presence and surge precasts alongside the regen.

Things at vet rank hit really, really hard, so you either need to be full glass cannon to kill them before they kill you, or have enough self healing to last.

Don't use plate, it's worthless and a leather sorc will get you far more healing.

That's all assuming range.

The only situation where 2h shines is on large packs of mobs where you cleave spam with brawler. For every other scenario dual wield is superior, with much better single target dps for bosses.

You made it sound like in veteran there are only certain builds viable to comfortably make it through. A bit like Diablo 3's high end paragons of old? So at least im prepared of whats coming in a couple of days time lol

Varivox9

ZenMonkey wrote: »

Varivox9 wrote: »

I don't even need much in the way of heavy armour as long as I use bound armour (lightning form is a good survival skill too) and I can use light armour passives to further my already great magicka regen.

I was planning to stick with heavy armor, but I'll be sure to put points into light armor if/when I reach the point where I need more magicka than armor. I just really like the idea of a mage in heavy armor, since it's not something you can play in most games, but I realize that might end up gimping me later on.

The really cool part is that you can do whatever you want in terms of armour. I think if I transition out of "bound armour" I'll go 5heavy/2light so suit my melee nature, but as it stands, with bound armour, I am going 4light/3heavy (can't find a good light to replace one of my heavy) and bound armour gives me a heavy skin. I think, imo, mixing in some light is the way to go.

Crescent

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

Stick with Dual Wield, it's superior damage sustained. Get blood craze, regen from resto staff+ cycle of life for that 10% extra damage. Save your magicka for thundering presence and surge precasts alongside the regen.

Things at vet rank hit really, really hard, so you either need to be full glass cannon to kill them before they kill you, or have enough self healing to last.

Don't use plate, it's worthless and a leather sorc will get you far more healing.

That's all assuming range.

The only situation where 2h shines is on large packs of mobs where you cleave spam with brawler. For every other scenario dual wield is superior, with much better single target dps for bosses.

You made it sound like in veteran there are only certain builds viable to comfortably make it through. A bit like Diablo 3's high end paragons of old? So at least im prepared of whats coming in a couple of days time lol

That's the case. Like in any game with many options, some options tower over the others.

zamiel

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

You made it sound like in veteran there are only certain builds viable to comfortably make it through. A bit like Diablo 3's high end paragons of old? So at least im prepared of whats coming in a couple of days time lol

Veteran levels are painful, especially bosses. With 1000 armor they hit you for 1500 damage in a heavy attack. There are also quite a few bosses that cast insane spells - the siren's whilry stuff and the lightning storms comes to my mind - they deal somewhere around 2000 damage through an overcharged spell resist. Regular mobs are somewhat more manageable, but they still are capable of hitting you with throwing daggers for about 600.

I don't think however veteran levels are in their final difficulty, some mobs (even trash) are extreme difficulty spikes, and quite a few are in a solo environment.

ElSlayer

zamiel wrote: »

Veteran levels are painful, especially bosses. With 1000 armor they hit you for 1500 damage in a heavy attack. There are also quite a few bosses that cast insane spells - the siren's whilry stuff and the lightning storms comes to my mind - they deal somewhere around 2000 damage through an overcharged spell resist. Regular mobs are somewhat more manageable, but they still are capable of hitting you with throwing daggers for about 600.

It seems like someone has problems with blocking...

zamiel

ElSlayer wrote: »

It seems like someone has problems with blocking...

Please go out in the next lighting storm and block the bolts, it works like a charm - according to you at least.

How much experience do you have with veteran content anyway?

Kingslayer

why not just wear light and put points into bound armor and boundless storm?

Crescent

Skip heavy armor. Medium armor is decent. Light armor caster is best.

The most efficient way to play a sorcerer unfortunately is destro staff pulsar and crystal shards spam with velocious curse mixed in.

Vet rank mobs will eat through even overcharged armor and spell resist, and melee/stamina builds simply do not have the potent AoE to kill before they are overwhelmed.

Templars and Dragon Knights are a whole other story because their class skill AoE's don't suck unlike Lightning Splash and Daedric Mines, and they self heal in spikes which is what you need in vet ranks.

Medium armor might work alright for single target in dungeons mostly, but this game has a serious bias against melee with all the crap that can hit like a freight train, most of which caster sorcs can root away from or chain stun a veteran via destructive clench and crystal shards.

And in dungeons the positional flexibility of range has always been the reason they are favored throughout the genre.

flintstone

I'm VR2 (VR3 soon) high elf sorcerer.... and heavy armor. I switch between a bow and a restro staff and play 90% solo up to this point. It's a tuff world out there but so far I'm doing ok. I have most of the skill lines and my two weapons maxed out on the perks but I do favor 2-3 of my skills on both bars. Bolt escape, crystal shards, and my pet dino help a lot (I was fighting mobs of 3-5 today, and they were VR3 level mobs)..........tuff but doable if you use the right tactics.

kasain

under two handed weapon tree you do realize many of the passive skills increase spell dmg as well. stampede, uppercut and crave all own as well in right boss fights. Uppercut is 4.5 sec stun. Put that on top of our 19.5 sec bind it is great.

5/5 heavy armor is nice if you put the two skill points into regen. that's 16% regen HP. Add a magica bonus stat its cool.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

I have 7 chars. My blacksmith is an Orc Sorc and he has made it to level 10 and only died a few times. He was built to get into Cyrodiil to the best stations but I have other chars I built for fighting.

I did not expect him to be so effective, he was kinda a throw away combat wise, but the ability to effectively swap back and forth between magic and stamina, while letting the other recover, is impressive. You gotta stand still while casting and pay attention, but when they get close, 3 heavy and 4 light with a 2 hand sword is a fine back up.

ZenMonkey

Crescent wrote: »

The most efficient way to play a sorcerer unfortunately is destro staff pulsar and crystal shards spam with velocious curse mixed in.

Clearly I'm not concerned with maximum efficiency or cookie cutter builds, or I wouldn't be doing this. ;-) Also I did mention this is a levelling build. I'm not speccing for vet at the moment.