Veteran Dungeons are too easy

Keiffo

(contains some spoilers of boss mechanics)

Since I haven't gotten to VR6 or higher yet, I can't comment on the next VR dungeons.

I'm talking specifically about Spindleclutch and the Banished Cells. Fungal Grotto has an acceptable and enjoyable level of difficulty because of the coordination required to defeat 3 of the bosses.

I've soloed 3 bosses in VR Spindleclutch and 1 in the Banished Cells. I haven't tried 2 more bosses I think I can solo in the Banished Cells yet. I obviously cannot solo DPS race bosses or bosses that require other players to free each other from certain CC.

The key boss I've soloed in Spindleclutch:

Praxin's Ghost. The one who summons 4 armies of ghost warriors. easy to kite them, kill them and focus on the boss with minimal damage taken. He then turns into a phantom and gains more abilities that still allow solo play. I only need about 4 potions to defeat him.

Since I enjoy clearing these dungeons over and over, I often find myself in groups with random people. They are often there for their first time, now unless a certain boss requires teamwork and coordination I keep my mouth shut about the mechanics that boss has. The result often being that my 3 party members get killed before Praxin even morphs into a phantom. I then solo the phantom like it's nothing and have the 3 people in my group suddenly regret complaining like crazy, demanding nerfs and assuming they have learned enough about the game to be at an acceptable level to clear the damn dungeon.

The other 2 bosses I've soloed in there are the very first boss, kite his minions, use potions and then avoid the boss power attack. Easy. The other is the one with 4 skeletons by his side, and he goes into a red pool and chases you around the room. Kiting him isn't even required. Run from his pool and then fight him 1 on 1 straight up with melee or even a resto staff...

Don't complain about the VR dungeon difficulty, when you haven't even learned to play your characters efficiently.

The key boss I've soloed in Banished Cells

Keeper Imiril The one who sends energy spheres flying around the room and summons groups of adds. The adds are extremely weak and offer no challenge, and leaving one alive allows me to recover HP/Sta/Mag if required, it's often not.

This boss is super easy to solo, yet I've seen people get wiped on it and whine about difficulty. Maybe you are just not cut out for the VR dungeons.

The other 2 bosses I think I can solo are the first 2 keepers. I've never went in solo to attempt them, but they are far weaker than Imiril.

The first group of trash mobs in the Banished Cells are harder than the 2nd keeper boss.

My class and tactics

I'm a nightblade who uses bow and my other set dual wield daggers. You know, the class people complain is underpowered and all. Sure there may be broken passives / bugged skills, but it's still great enough to solo EVERY public dungeon boss and skill point final boss, and some bosses in the VR dungeons (which should be hard with 4 players, and impossible with 1)

I'm level 50 alchemy, and to solo the bosses I often need anywhere from 1-5 potions that recover HP, Sta, Mag. Very easy to collect tons of these.

I also use level 50 food to boost HP into overcharged, and stamina even further into overcharged.

My group of regulars

Me and 3 others rotate from Spindle to Banished Cells and clear each of them super fast for VP. 700k VP in 3 hours yesterday, and that was including coffee breaks and such things.

EDIT: For those who need clarification, the 3 regulars can consist of anybody I've added to my contacts list after clearing a dungeon and seeing they were a good player.

I also have a couple of friends who sometimes join the group, but that time is gone now, they are approaching VR10.

ZiRM

You think they are easy the next person doesn't. It's all opinions...

Veshal

@Keiffo‌ you know there comes a day in every gamers life where they must accept or the deny the fact that they, just might be pro. You sir are pro

Sarius

so u have exploitet bugged encounter by kiting everything outside there bossrooms wich should clearly be not possible and complain about how easy it is ?

try to do them as intended inside the actual bossroom "solo"

Keiffo

Sarius wrote: »

so u have exploitet bugged encounter by kiting everything outside there bossrooms wich should clearly be not possible and complain about how easy it is ?

try to do them as intended inside the actual bossroom "solo"

I fight all bosses in their boss rooms. Stop living in your silly world of denial. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean other people can. I've never used a bug to kill a boss in a dungeon.

My experienced group even unlocked all undaunted achievements and speed runs (fastest being 14 minutes).

These are not hard. And the people complaining about 'difficulty' are going to ruin this game for me. If the dungeons are nerfed, I'm going to have to find a new game to play.

LonePirate

Let me get this straight. You intentionally withheld information and tactics that resulted in the preventable deaths of your group members just so you could solo a boss? I think there is a specific word for that sort of behavior.

neocomab16_ESO

cant talk about dungeons being easy or not because I cannot manage to kill first spindle boss, that gargoyle things that enrages way too quickly.

Keiffo

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

cant talk about dungeons being easy or not because I cannot manage to kill first spindle boss, that gargoyle things that enrages way too quickly.

That boss is the hardest in the whole dungeon. Just requires higher DPS, most groups can't kill it, and have to skip it instead. It will change in a couple of weeks though, when everybody has better gear and more experience.

Keiffo

LonePirate wrote: »

Let me get this straight. You intentionally withheld information and tactics that resulted in the preventable deaths of your group members just so you could solo a boss? I think there is a specific word for that sort of behavior.

I never held back information the group had to know about mechanics requiring coordination. Telling them every little thing about a boss would just ruin the experience for them. Dungeons are meant to have deaths, hell, the thing I hope for most when I try a new dungeon is that my group gets wiped out so we can consider it a challenge.

And I soloed the bosses without my group being present just to see if I could. It's even a guild requirement that you are able to solo just one VR dungeon boss(your pick). OFC this guild will be the first to conquer the adventure zone.

Rayadrel

So basically you have a cheese build that's broken and think it's the content or players that are the problem rather than your build.

I've never heard of anyone complain that Nightblade is underpowered in fact I've heard the exact opposite, so nice try.

Please, get out of here with your attempts to demean other players and show off. You make me ill. People like you are precisely the type of people this game doesn't need.
So by all means, find a new game to play. Never darken this game with your incessant need to beat your chest again.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Well you should be able to solo bosses that are easly kiteable with a nightblade. Even the final boss in vet fungal grotto could probably be soloed cause all the damage it deals is easy to avoid if you are good at dodging. So yeah the bosses are a bit too easy. Most of them are just a simple case of learning the mechanics and then you dont take any damage period if you dont mess up. They could probably put an enrage timer on all bosses to avoid people soloing them, but not so short that a group with 4 people would struggle on the timer. Unless the bosses difficulty is the fact that its enrage is super short like the gargoyle, then its ok to have a short one.

Rayadrel

"Learning the mechanics" describes pretty much every boss ever.

We're dealing with someone here who is likely VR5 and overgeared thanks to being carried by his guild complaining that VR1 content is "too easy".
So no, we don't need silly tweaks and forced enrage modes to punish everyone because one little boy felt the need to show off.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Rayadrel wrote: »

"Learning the mechanics" describes pretty much every boss ever.

We're dealing with someone here who is likely VR5 and overgeared thanks to being carried by his guild complaining that VR1 content is "too easy".
So no, we don't need silly tweaks and forced enrage modes to punish everyone because one little boy felt the need to show off.

You dont take any damage at all as long as you know the mechanics though, there should be unavoidable damage so groups have to have healers. Then you wouldn't be able to solo them. Then when this guy comes on here and brags it will be a real accomplishment.

Rayadrel

There is unavoidable damage, mostly.
This Keiffo guy is speaking of a specific class with a specific setup that's better at kiting bosses and dodging than any other. Perhaps that needs to be addressed.
But bosses certainly don't need to be made harder.

Keiffo

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Well you should be able to solo bosses that are easly kiteable with a nightblade. Even the final boss in vet fungal grotto could probably be soloed cause all the damage it deals is easy to avoid if you are good at dodging. So yeah the bosses are a bit too easy. Most of them are just a simple case of learning the mechanics and then you dont take any damage period if you dont mess up. They could probably put an enrage timer on all bosses to avoid people soloing them, but not so short that a group with 4 people would struggle on the timer. Unless the bosses difficulty is the fact that its enrage is super short like the gargoyle, then its ok to have a short one.

DK is the best class to solo anything though.

Rayadrel wrote: »

"Learning the mechanics" describes pretty much every boss ever.

We're dealing with someone here who is likely VR5 and overgeared thanks to being carried by his guild complaining that VR1 content is "too easy".
So no, we don't need silly tweaks and forced enrage modes to punish everyone because one little boy felt the need to show off.

I haven't done any of the veteran dungeons with any of my guilds. I only do pugs and occasionally have 1 friend in the group.

The difficulty in this game is non-existent. Of course you get some generally awful players who are bad at every game they play, but that shouldn't be unexpected in ESO. If tons of people can do it, they can be sheep and copy builds/tactics.

That isn't even required though, almost any skill set, class, throw anything on your bars, and you can clear the veteran dungeons.

Rayadrel

Keiffo wrote: »

I haven't done any of the veteran dungeons with any of my guilds. I only do pugs and occasionally have 1 friend in the group.

Earlier you said:

My group of regulars

Me and 3 others rotate from Spindle to Banished Cells and clear each of them super fast for VP. 700k VP in 3 hours yesterday, and that was including coffee breaks and such things.

You know I'm not even going to bother with you if you will trip over your own lies so easily.
You present no challenge.

cubansyrusb16_ESO

Is this a brag thread or a buff the bosses thread ...

The title says "Veteran dungeons to easy" then the entire thread is talking about you and how you amaze people and how impressive you look to them ........

Keiffo

Rayadrel wrote: »

Keiffo wrote: »

I haven't done any of the veteran dungeons with any of my guilds. I only do pugs and occasionally have 1 friend in the group.

Earlier you said:

My group of regulars

Me and 3 others rotate from Spindle to Banished Cells and clear each of them super fast for VP. 700k VP in 3 hours yesterday, and that was including coffee breaks and such things.

You know I'm not even going to bother with you if you will trip over your own lies so easily.
You present no challenge.

Yes, me and one friend, 2 randoms, or 3 randoms. I recruit from zone chat for fast VP dungeon runs. I only build groups with the intent to rotate around each dungeon clearing them just for the VP. I only join ones who plan on staying for more than a single dungeon run.

'rotating' between the 3 dungeons is because most of the time 2 members in the group haven't cleared the dungeons yet for the skill points. So we rotate and collect the skill points, just for them.

There are some people on my contact lists who are just there because I invite them to those groups. They are not my friends or guildies, just people who are better than a lot of the strangers group finder throws in.

You know, the people who are bronze/silver/gold in League of Legends and whine on forums about an invisible barrier keeping them there.

The people who play single player games and turn the difficulty to easy.

And the relevant one, the idiots who claim there is difficulty somewhere in this game. It's not a brag thread, I'm stating that almost everybody can clear everything in this game without any difficulty. Most of the ones who have some difficulty clearing something will learn fast and clear it easy in the future. The rest are just hopeless cases who most likely find everything in the world difficult.

Comprehend what you read before trying to 'trip people up on lies'

Decimus_Rex

This whole game is to easy

Within two weeks there are V Ranks.

How freakin easy mode is that?!

The whole GAME needs A push back on difficulty

which means more quests in EACH zone to delay and satisfy players

But to slow progress is the point

Questing gives way to much xp.....

Quote me on this

The game will be a ghost town in four months because everyone has a rank 10 character or two

To easy to levels means the END game better be HUGE!!

It's not

Axer

Maybe you don't understand the dungeon design, but sorry you never solod a "boss in spindleclutch. (or probably any, never read the whole post).

But Praxins ghost isn't a boss. He's a joke and intended to be.

Each VR dungeon only has 3 bosses, and 3 mini-bosses. The bosses ARE a good challenge, especially when done at VR1-2 as intended. The minibosses are easy enough, they are just meant to be warm ups.

Pretty obvious what the difference is, the real bosses have 2-3x the health, more speical attacks, and the key point: Actaully drop purples. (Minibosses dont drop purples, and give very poor xp)

Boss list (official Axer names)

BC bosses:
Fire Deathdroth
Teleporting Chick
Bruce Rillis (Teifling Sorcerer)

FG Bosses:
Shadow chick
Spider Daedra
Necromancer chick

SC Bosses:
Raging Gargoyle
Summoning Ghost
Badass Vampire

Other ones are all mini bosses. Pretty clear if you watch the loot and xp (get some addons).

IIRC they possible also have differnet health borders, tho i never watch that much.

Keiffo

Axer wrote: »

Maybe you don't understand the dungeon design, but sorry you never solod a "boss in spindleclutch. (or probably any, never read the whole post).

But Praxins ghost isn't a boss. He's a joke and intended to be.

Each VR dungeon only has 3 bosses, and 3 mini-bosses. The bosses ARE a good challenge, especially when done at VR1-2 as intended. The minibosses are easy enough, they are just meant to be warm ups.

Pretty obvious what the difference is, the real bosses have 2-3x the health, more speical attacks, and the key point: Actaully drop purples. (Minibosses dont drop purples, and give very poor xp)

Boss list (official Axer names)

BC bosses:
Fire Deathdroth
Teleporting Chick
Bruce Rillis (Teifling Sorcerer)

FG Bosses:
Shadow chick
Spider Daedra
Necromancer chick

SC Bosses:
Raging Gargoyle
Summoning Ghost
Badass Vampire

Other ones are all mini bosses. Pretty clear if you watch the loot and xp (get some addons).

IIRC they possible also have differnet health borders, tho i never watch that much.

Plenty of people have soloed a lot of the bosses in veteran dungeons. Look up videos on youtube.

There is one where only 2 people kill the spider daedra in Fungal.

There are plenty of people soloing praxin (the summoning ghost). Who is one of the dungeon's main bosses, hence he is on the list required for the basic dungeon clear achievement.

A healer and one other person is all you need to kill the fire daedroth. Purify stops fire spread(it doesn't extinguish existing fire in case somebody reads this wrong and calls BS again) , giving infinite time to kill the boss, lack of DPS doesn't matter.

2 people with AoE and a heal or two can kill the teleporting chick in BC.

I've been in a group that cleared BC with only 3 people, but BC is the far easier one compared to fungal at least.

There seems to be a real lack of belief so here is what I would like you to do. Send me a contact request in-game, @Keiffo come into any vet dungeon of your choice and let's clear the dungeons with a cap of 3 people in the group. Just to prove you wrong.

Keiffo

Rayadrel wrote: »

Keiffo, you're a worthless braggart attempting to inflate your own importance with lies and exaggerations. I caught you in a lie and you had to scramble for a hasty explanation.

You are lying about how you do dungeons in a vain attempt to paint yourself as some kind of pro.
I wouldn't have wanted you to stay even when I thought you were just an elitist with a broken build. But now I see you're just a child desperate for attention.

Please, for the good of the community, go play something else. You are not needed or wanted here.

I'm here to discuss game balance. Keep it on topic.

aeroch

I'm impressed. Just finished the first 3 VR dungeons and got through them okay but I thought they were fun and suitably difficult, at least the first time around, and they were definitely a step up from the regular dungeons. Curious how our group's subsequent runs will play out.

Keiffo

aeroch wrote: »

I'm impressed. Just finished the first 3 VR dungeons and got through them okay but I thought they were fun and suitably difficult, at least the first time around, and they were definitely a step up from the regular dungeons. Curious how our group's subsequent runs will play out.

Right, the first runs can be difficult and so much fun, when you know nothing about the boss mechanics, but once you do... you will find your next runs so very smooth, the more runs you do, the more effortless they seem. The problem with this is that there are only 6 dungeons. Once you know them all, there is no end game left. At least until Craglorn gets here.

I really hope some content in Craglorn is almost impossible to complete, something to keep everybody's attention for a good chunk of time.

Axer

Keiffo wrote: »

There seems to be a real lack of belief so here is what I would like you to do. Send me a contact request in-game, @Keiffo come into any vet dungeon of your choice and let's clear the dungeons with a cap of 3 people in the group. Just to prove you wrong.

I've already done that, and two manned most bosses.

My point was simply, the op didn't solo a proper boss. It was a mini boss.

Just because the quest has an objective related to him (which isn't really kill him, it's smash the crystal he's guarding, he's just a minor obstacle) doesn't really mean anything. If the objective read " kill the grand powerful boss".. Maybe youd be getting at somethign ,but it doesn't. It's a lowly weak miniboss no real group has any trouble with.

Your very VERY confused if you thought I meant anything else, I was very specific on that point.

So no, beating any or all with 3 people doesn't prove me wrong, because I posted NOTHING of the sort. Really weird reply dude. Think you just looked for an excuse to gloat i guess.

Keiffo

Axer wrote: »

Keiffo wrote: »

There seems to be a real lack of belief so here is what I would like you to do. Send me a contact request in-game, @Keiffo come into any vet dungeon of your choice and let's clear the dungeons with a cap of 3 people in the group. Just to prove you wrong.

I've already done that, and two manned most bosses.

My point was simply, the op didn't solo a proper boss. It was a mini boss.

Just because the quest has an objective related to him (which isn't really kill him, it's smash the crystal he's guarding, he's just a minor obstacle) doesn't really mean anything. If the objective read " kill the grand powerful boss".. Maybe youd be getting at somethign ,but it doesn't. It's a lowly weak miniboss no real group has any trouble with.

Your very VERY confused if you thought I meant anything else, I was very specific on that point.

So no, beating any or all with 3 people doesn't prove me wrong, because I posted NOTHING of the sort. Really weird reply dude. Think you just looked for an excuse to gloat i guess.

You just proved the whole point of this thread with your post. You've two manned most bosses. It shouldn't be possible, but it is - that being possible is a real problem.

The veteran dungeons should never be cleared with less than 4 people, but if you and another player clear a dungeon as 2 people, think about what will happen next.

People are on the forums complaining that the dungeons are too hard. If they get nerfed, while you can do it with 2 people, what is the point? As it stands the veteran dungeons are the ONLY end game we have, and they are not difficult enough.

Reinmard

What is wrong with you guys? U mad coz he did something you couldnt do? Or maybe coz he said something you cannot even beat is easy?
Btw, I dont know this guy at all, and Im not saying Vt dungeon are easy, but they arent hard neither, especially after a bunch of runs and you just start to rush them...
And no, Im not any kind of supah dps or supah nigthblade or tank, im a healer and I play with random ppl, some of them suck, other play well, but we always finish the dungeon, and I finished them when I was vt 1 and it was hard and I rush them now when Im vt 5.
Just *** deal with the veteran dungeon, and stop whining all the time, things like this ruins all the Mmo, whats the point of builds and traits and skill points and blahblah if I can beat any dungeon with any build.
Difficulty is what makes you improve, there is no point of improving without it.

Zaxq

Plenty of people have soloed a lot of the bosses in veteran dungeons. Look up videos on youtube.

There is one where only 2 people kill the spider daedra in Fungal.

So the solo video has 2 people in it?

I think we have different definitions of solo.

Keiffo

Zaxq wrote: »

Plenty of people have soloed a lot of the bosses in veteran dungeons. Look up videos on youtube.

There is one where only 2 people kill the spider daedra in Fungal.

So the solo video has 2 people in it?

I think we have different definitions of solo.

Other bosses have been soloed, the reason 2 people are on the spider is because it sucks one player into the cave to kill 6 spider adds. If there is only one player there, the boss is reset to full HP.

Stop looking for cracks in what I'm telling you and just search for the damn videos. They exist. You are in denial. Go watch and get better.

blackwolf7

Too bad youre in daggerfall ;c i really needed some help finishing the first three dungeons, all the group ive been too werent able to finish it

Keiffo

Here is a video proving my case. This should not be possible, yet it is.

NOTE: This game is not about skill or any such thing, it's about knowing builds and mechanics, then copying them, if you are too stupid to come up with working builds yourself. Everybody can do what anybody else in the game can do. MMORPGs are like that. The person who plays the most has the most gold, the highest PvP points, but that is it. Nothing of interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ReeteKsvg

Freshly uploaded, so it will take some processing time to reach 1080p

All 6 veteran dungeons can be cleared with only two people. This label 'tank' people have is meaningless too. This is just the first of 6 videos (6 veteran dungeons) cleared by two people.

Taking a look at the dungeons as if they were balanced for only two people instead of four, here is what I have to say:

Spindleclutch: Without the best weapon power/crit and stamina elixirs or the magicka equivalent on both players, skipping the gargoyle is the wise move, everything else is easy.

Fungal Grotto: Nothing in here is difficult for two people, except the healer has a tougher time having to balance heals + DD to break the shadow chains. DPS could also hybrid heal to solve this.

Eden Hollow: No thought went into the boss mechanics in this dungeon, you just kill the adds and that's it...easy.

Darkshade Caverns: This one requires ridiculously good kiting on the centurions. The centurions are harder than the bosses by far.

Wayrest Sewers: The hardest part clearing this dungeon with two people is the giant harvester boss. Since pressing the altars on time while saving the other player is hard to do. The final boss can and has been soloed.

So once you see all 6 videos, you will have no choice but to adapt and agree that clearing all 6 vet dungeons with a group of two means they are too easy. With four people the dungeons can probably be completed while naked. Only weapons on one or 2 of the players. How's that?

Sarius wrote: »

so u have exploitet bugged encounter by kiting everything outside there bossrooms wich should clearly be not possible and complain about how easy it is ?

try to do them as intended inside the actual bossroom "solo"

Have a look at the video and then reconsider your silly accusation.

Rayadrel wrote: »

Keiffo wrote: »

I haven't done any of the veteran dungeons with any of my guilds. I only do pugs and occasionally have 1 friend in the group.

Earlier you said:

My group of regulars

Me and 3 others rotate from Spindle to Banished Cells and clear each of them super fast for VP. 700k VP in 3 hours yesterday, and that was including coffee breaks and such things.

You know I'm not even going to bother with you if you will trip over your own lies so easily.
You present no challenge.

Have a look at the video, you don't need groups of anybody, two people per dungeon. Most bosses can be soloed too. GG.