Your "bolster" system

Alandauron

SwampRaider wrote: »

Ganksalot wrote: »

I belive your thinking is flawed. Why on earth would you think you should be able to go toe to toe with someone who is lvl49 when you are lvl15?

Because, theoretically due to PROPER SCALING, a level 15 SHOULD be able to kil la level 49. Or else there is NO POINT for a lowbie to be in cyrodiil

If that's the way you feel then stay out of Cyrodil until you hit VR.

In fact though there are plenty of things to do as a sub-level. Siege weapons all do the same damage regardless of level, only thing that breaks that rule is Emperor.

If you think you should be able to hand someone so many levels above you their a$$ because it's unfair if you can't then please stop playing MMOs. I'm being serious, please just stop playing them, that mindset is destroying MMOs. If you are working with a group through voice chat and trying to be organized then you can heal, stay at range, or get on siege and still contribute to the fight.

If you are trying to gank people as a lvl 20ish and they are VR1 or higher then you just need to get that idea out of your head. In combat there are soldiers and there are VETERANS. A veteran has learned the ins and outs of combat and can manage the field better, that is the concept behind Cyrodil, and it is a really great concept.

Anyway, if you are complaining because it sucks to be sub-level in Cyrodil I completely understand. But I have gone out there plenty of times and contributed as a sub-level. I have even managed to cause VRs to run away from me due to their build requiring them to get in close and I made sure to keep them at range. IMO that shouldn't have happened, but due to the scaling system I was able to.

babanovac

Alandauron wrote: »

In combat there are soldiers and there are VETERANS. A veteran has learned the ins and outs of combat and can manage the field better, that is the concept behind Cyrodil, and it is a really great concept.

Except in this game a Veteran is someone who hasn't set foot in PvP, because if he had he would only be level 20-30, and is able to destroy lower levels thanks to his gear, even though he didn't learn to PvP at all.

An exaggeration, of course, but that's the basic gist of this Veteranship you speak of in ESO.

RivenEsq

Except the fact that a higher level should be stronger, especially one that is no longer being "bolstered".

The underlying issue is that low levels should get better EXP in Cyrodiil. I have no idea why the PvEers complained that leveling in Cyrodiil was too fast, but then insist that they want to play the game how they want, which includes never playing PvP while in the same breath making PvP players play PvE to level.

Eris

I'm sorry OP but it's your bolster system that is flawed. My bolster system works perfectly. However, you might have been talking about the EOS bolster system which I have no information about, but I'm sure mine works fine.

If you have a title which states YOUR I'm assuming your talking to me. Perhaps EOS bolster system might have been a better term, because in the forums you are not expected to be talking to Zenimax as there are tens of thousands of us and only a few of them.

Carde

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out as I refuse to read this thread other than the OP...

Level 49 is bolstered to the exact same stats as the level 15 was. They're identical outside of skills. You were killed because the other guy was a better player, not a better level.

Khyras

"Level 49 is bolstered to the exact same stats as the level 15 was. They're identical outside of skills. You were killed because the other guy was a better player, not a better level."
If that is the case how come lower lvl players deal pitiful amount of dmg to me when i fight them? Its a night and day difference fighting players 20 lvls lower compared to players 20 lvls higher.
Furthermore he should not have same stats as me,i was heavy armor SnB tank with alll attribute points in health,he was medium armor DW dps.If we have same stats that only proves my point that this bolster system is pathetic joke.

Khyras

Also, i want to say that im sick of this burst dmg combat trend in MMORPGs,these games are not FPS and burst damage has no place in them,especially when i purposefully build my character not to be bursted and especially not to be bursted by one guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqL6Tszymlc This is how pvp fight against a tank should look like,not getting bursted by one guy in 2 seconds.Then again,pvp in WAR was best in MMORPG history in every aspect( my opinion),and this is pve game with pathetic beta stage pvp systems.

RivenEsq

He does more damage because he has passives. Those aren't shaped or restricted by the bolster system.

Also, because your stats are bolstered and you are underleveled, you have no stats from any of your gear that is making you "tanky" and you have no passive tankiness because, at your low level, you have no significant passives.

So yeah, a guy with more passives and the same stats can stomp you, get used to it or level up.

Khyras

"He does more damage because he has passives. Those aren't shaped or restricted by the bolster system.

Also, because your stats are bolstered and you are underleveled, you have no stats from any of your gear that is making you "tanky" and you have no passive tankiness because, at your low level, you have no significant passives.

So yeah, a guy with more passives and the same stats can stomp you, get used to it or level up. "

You just named all the reasons why i dont like their pvp bolster system,so what exactly is your point? WAR had bolster system yet as lvl 15 highest lvl player you would go against was 26,not 49,because of how much difference skills and passives make even with bolstered stats.
I think this pvp system sucks for low level players,extremely so,hence why i made this thread.What exactly are YOU trying to say? If you like this system then stay out of this thread because,frankly,i dont care what you or people like you think.
I am providing my feedback to devs,if they even care,im not trying to start pointless discussion between people who do and dont like pvp systems in this game.If you like PvP bolster system in this game then make your own thread and say so, instead of trying to tell me what i should or should not like or think.

RivenEsq

This is a discussion board, and I am publicly disagreeing with you. You came in here expecting there to be 0 level of skill improvement or progression as pertains to PvP over your leveling. That is absurd. You think it is unfair that you died to a higher level player. Go back to playing WAR if it was so great, because the majority of the community doesn't share your attitude.

The whole point is to make underlevels have a chance in PvP, not make them inherently equal to those who have earned more passives and skills. Period.

SuperScrubby

Wow the amount of hate in this thread. I agree with the OP the "bolster" system or whatever you want to call it BEEEEELLLLOOOOOOOOWS.

It's awful and does nothing. I was lvl 49 and lost over 700 armor and 400 HP because of the "bolster" system.

It has nothing to do with entitlement because I was easily able to kill tons of players while pvping through Cyrodil. What it has to do with is that the system itself which was meant to "balance" things out does so at the cost of any real build. You want to be a wear heavy armor, stack hp, and use a 2H sword? Sure, except we'll give you the same hp as someone that put all their points into magicka or stamina with the same armor as them.

The only thing that makes a difference between 10-49 is your passives and unlocking those higher class skills that give you a self heal or bigger spike damage. That's why the bolster system blows for anyone below VR1. It uses a terribly lazy system to "balance" everyone out but it really doesn't. It takes the "play as you want" out of the game since none of your point or item choices matter.

Here's a secret in low lvl pvp. 1 initiating skill, a fast knock down/stun, CC or spike damage skill, finishing skill, self heal. Regardless of your level, weapon select, point distribution if you can hit 1-4 with the self heal as needed you can beat anyone in that level bracket because the game does no effort to take the build you currently have and scale it.

I don't know how SWTOR's scaling system worked at launch but its definitely a lot better than how this system works currently. I had to quit pvping until VR1 because I got tired of losing half of my stats when entering Cyrodil.

Alandauron

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Wow the amount of hate in this thread. I agree with the OP the "bolster" system or whatever you want to call it BEEEEELLLLOOOOOOOOWS.

It's awful and does nothing. I was lvl 49 and lost over 700 armor and 400 HP because of the "bolster" system.

It has nothing to do with entitlement because I was easily able to kill tons of players while pvping through Cyrodil. What it has to do with is that the system itself which was meant to "balance" things out does so at the cost of any real build. You want to be a wear heavy armor, stack hp, and use a 2H sword? Sure, except we'll give you the same hp as someone that put all their points into magicka or stamina with the same armor as them.

The only thing that makes a difference between 10-49 is your passives and unlocking those higher class skills that give you a self heal or bigger spike damage. That's why the bolster system blows for anyone below VR1. It uses a terribly lazy system to "balance" everyone out but it really doesn't. It takes the "play as you want" out of the game since none of your point or item choices matter.

Here's a secret in low lvl pvp. 1 initiating skill, a fast knock down/stun, CC or spike damage skill, finishing skill, self heal. Regardless of your level, weapon select, point distribution if you can hit 1-4 with the self heal as needed you can beat anyone in that level bracket because the game does no effort to take the build you currently have and scale it.

I don't know how SWTOR's scaling system worked at launch but its definitely a lot better than how this system works currently. I had to quit pvping until VR1 because I got tired of losing half of my stats when entering Cyrodil.

Yes, the system is flawed at it's core, you can't be a Mage or Tank, etc. until you hit VR. That part is flawed, and this has been stated several times and all throughout beta, I was there.

The entitlement comment was directed at those that have the mindset that someone at lvl 10-30 should be on even footing with VR players. That mindset is extremely entitled. It is still possible to take them out, but only if you are a great player and they are not. I have killed my share of VR players as a sub-level, it's not impossible thanks to the bolster system.

I will say that they need to implement the option they were discussing to turn off your bolster if you want. I know past lvl 35ish you start losing stats instead of gaining them, that is seriously flawed.

SuperScrubby

Oh that's what the entitlement comment was going for? Yeah that's ridiculous then. The whole point of me hitting VR is so I would quit being gimped in PvP due to the garbage bolster system.

cura666eb17_ESO

Ganksalot wrote: »

I belive your thinking is flawed. Why on earth would you think you should be able to go toe to toe with someone who is lvl49 when you are lvl15?

I believe your thinking is flawed. Why on earth would you think anybody should be forced to play against people whom they cant do a crap?

cura666eb17_ESO

nez wrote: »

on other hand, why then i bothered to lvl at all? just take out lvl's and make attributes static, leave only Cyrodiil and thats what you get per ur wish, guy from first post. sounds kinda boring, and yes, lvl 49 taking out 15lvl 2-3 seems just OK to me.

Thats funny. In all other games level 49 taking lowbies is called ganker. You know whats boring? Winning a duel becouse of better gear and not your skill. Thats lame and sad.

Viverim

In my very limited opinion (yes, stating that because I am expecting LOADS of disagreement) part of the problem is the fact that everyone is pushed into the same zone. I agree that passives are playing a large part of this, however the game tells you that at level 10 you can enter PvP. Why offer that as an option and then gimp the player for going in? It's great for the high level players who have tons of passives as they can now gank people who are fighting with a handicap, but not as fun for the lower level characters.

My suggestion is that there should be tiers. There are multiple campaigns, after all, so why not divide these up and have two or three campaigns for each tier of levels? Not sure what the set-up would be, but if you did every 10 levels or so in each bracket the highest player levels in a given tier wouldn't outshine the lowest by too high a margin. And I would also restrict VR levels to their own set of campaigns as well, if VR breaks the mold, as it were.

If the system remains as unbalanced as I hear a lot of people say then PvP will not remain healthy, and you will have a HUGE AvA area with only a few people participating. As someone who more enjoys large scale battles, this is something I personally would rather avoid.

RivenEsq

The 10 campaigns for all levels are hardly filled as it is with maybe 5 or so with decent populations during the height of North American prime time. There are really only 2 campaigns that are actually filled. Further stratification of campaigns based on levels would do nothing except increasingly dilute an already limited campaign population at this stage in the game.

I can concede that the bolster system should be improved such that, if you have stats that exceed the bolster in any area, those stats should be counted (i.e. players in their 40s having more stats in health/magicka/stamina than the bolster stats and being scaled down). This makes your gear impactful pre-50 if you exceed the stats granted by the bolster, while also making it so that levels still matter via passives, skills, etc. A level 10-30 is being handed a huge benefit to begin with by being bolstered at all. I firmly believe that levels should indicate some level of increased strength and they do; that is the point of progression. The OPs complaint is one of entitlement and not one of fixing the system, which is my main complaint with the direction and goal of this thread, not that improvements shouldn't be made with the system.

Alandauron

Viverim wrote: »

In my very limited opinion (yes, stating that because I am expecting LOADS of disagreement) part of the problem is the fact that everyone is pushed into the same zone. I agree that passives are playing a large part of this, however the game tells you that at level 10 you can enter PvP. Why offer that as an option and then gimp the player for going in? It's great for the high level players who have tons of passives as they can now gank people who are fighting with a handicap, but not as fun for the lower level characters.

My suggestion is that there should be tiers. There are multiple campaigns, after all, so why not divide these up and have two or three campaigns for each tier of levels? Not sure what the set-up would be, but if you did every 10 levels or so in each bracket the highest player levels in a given tier wouldn't outshine the lowest by too high a margin. And I would also restrict VR levels to their own set of campaigns as well, if VR breaks the mold, as it were.

If the system remains as unbalanced as I hear a lot of people say then PvP will not remain healthy, and you will have a HUGE AvA area with only a few people participating. As someone who more enjoys large scale battles, this is something I personally would rather avoid.

Because Cyrodil is simulating a WAR scenario. In a war there are all kinds, skilled and unskilled, Veterans and non-Veterans.

You can choose to stay out of Cyrodil until reaching Veteran rank, or you can choose to go in and join a group to help decimate your enemy.

You can also choose to go in there solo but let me ask you something. If you were a fresh recruit with very limited skill would you go join a war only to go around by yourself and not have the support of a large allied force behind you?

This is what Cyrodil is, if you're looking for small scale "fair" fights for similarly leveled players then that doesn't exist in ESO yet. We have asked for this several times throughout beta, dueling and arena fights, and hopefully they are coming. Cyrodil is NOT that though, it is a WAR in which you are just one of many.

But when they create this arena system I pray that they don't take sub-levels out of Cyrodil, that is where you have the chance to learn tactics. If you aren't as high a level and don't have the gear/passives to be an equal match you have to learn tactics to survive and/or defeat your enemy. Just find a group/guild and either learn from them or with them, it's part of the fun.

Marstar

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Wow the amount of hate in this thread. I agree with the OP the "bolster" system or whatever you want to call it BEEEEELLLLOOOOOOOOWS.

It's awful and does nothing. I was lvl 49 and lost over 700 armor and 400 HP because of the "bolster" system.

Blah blah blah

That is the whole point of the bolster system .... it bolsters those who need it and nerfs those who don't, while you get a 'taste' for Cyrodiil.

Once you hit VR1. Then the gloves come off

Kingslayer

The bolsters been increased.

RivenEsq

They're also adding the option to toggle it off if you want your normal stats, which is cool.