Lack of armor customization is causing me to lose interest....

Abeille

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

People also seem to forget that the problem is that when half the players have max lvl yellow gear (in, say, a couple of months or so), we will only have the 14 racial motifs and the top sets as "variety".
The "we have hundreds of possibilities!" claim would only hold any water if it was possible to wear lower level/quality skins with higher level/quality stats.

Level 1-4 characters Only:

10 Racial motifs
3 armor types
2 quality types (Normal and Fine)
2 sexes
4 classes

10 x 3 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 240 distinct sets.

Thats assuming you cannot find anything better than Fine quality...in reality a Level 4 character would technically be able to wear 5 quality types.

The problem is NOT when you are lvl 1-4, is when you are V10.
Unless you want to gimp yourself, you will be using yellow armor by then.
Then you have these options, excluding set pieces:
1 quality
3 armor types
14 racial motifs
1 sex, because you can't use the armor model of the other sex (and most of the pieces are the same for both sexes anyway).

There is no difference between classes. I just tested it like five minutes ago.

Not so many options then, huh? Unless you don't mind using stuff of a lower level/quality for the sake of character customization, of course.

SadisticSavior

Abeille wrote: »

The problem is NOT when you are lvl 1-4, is when you are V10.
Unless you want to gimp yourself, you will be using yellow armor by then.
Then you have these options, excluding set pieces:
1 quality
3 armor types
14 racial motifs
1 sex, because you can't use the armor model of the other sex (and most of the pieces are the same for both sexes anyway).

Many custom sets and dropped items.

You have access to 5 quality levels at 50, not 1. Legendary items are supposed to be an end goal, not a "gimme" at level 50. By the time you are able to grind through to that point they will have added more content.

Even in your (IMO) unreasonably narrow example you still have 42 complete sets to work with. At launch.

Abeille wrote: »

There is no difference between classes. I just tested it like five minutes ago.

Well, several people on here are claiming different.

Abeille

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

The problem is NOT when you are lvl 1-4, is when you are V10.
Unless you want to gimp yourself, you will be using yellow armor by then.
Then you have these options, excluding set pieces:
1 quality
3 armor types
14 racial motifs
1 sex, because you can't use the armor model of the other sex (and most of the pieces are the same for both sexes anyway).

Many custom sets and dropped items.

You have access to 5 quality levels at 50, not 1. Legendary items are supposed to be an end goal, not a "gimme" at level 50. By the time you are able to grind through to that point they will have added more content.

Even in your (IMO) unreasonably narrow example you still have 42 complete sets to work with. At launch.

It doesn't matter what Legendary items are supposed to be. Right now, they are a given. The hirelings are giving all the tempers anyone could ever need to get a legendary, so much that the legendary tempers are not expensive at all.
It doesn't matter if you have access to 5 quality levels at V10. You won't be using anything but legendary items when you are V10, much like all the other V10 players, unless (like I said before) you plan on gimping yourself in the name of character customization.
"42 complete sets", yeah, if you don't care about armor type bonuses. Even so, 42 complete sets are way too few when you take into consideration that there are two megaservers. The odds to find other people that look exactly like you are too damn high.
There are not many good dropped items and sets, too. By "good", I mean "what you would want to use when you are V10".

Do you see my point? It might looks like that there is enough variety right now because not many people got to the cap already. Once they do, though...

SadisticSavior

Abeille wrote: »

It doesn't matter what Legendary items are supposed to be. Right now, they are a given. The hirelings are giving all the tempers anyone could ever need to get a legendary, so much that the legendary tempers are not expensive at all.

So far I have received a grand total of one (1) Legendary temper. After about a week. I will not be crafting full sets of Legendary armor any time soon.

Abeille wrote: »

"42 complete sets", yeah, if you don't care about armor type bonuses.

Thats 42 sets that are a distinct look. Bonuses come in a variety of forms, including enchantments and traits...if you only care about bonuses, the number is way higher than that.

There are unique crafted sets and drops, both of which can be improved via crafting. The 42 sets is just what you can make from scratch, it's not the only choices.

Abeille wrote: »

Even so, 42 complete sets are way too few when you take into consideration that there are two megaservers.

Well, IMO, you're too demanding. 42 sets, in your ridiculously narrow example, are pretty damn good for a game that just launched. Which other games offered more than that at launch?

Abeille wrote: »

Do you see my point? It might looks like that there is enough variety right now because not many people got to the cap already. Once they do, though...

I might agree with you if this is all there will ever be, but we both know that is not the case. There will be patches and add-ons that add to this.

Abeille

SadisticSavior wrote: »

So far I have received a grand total of one (1) Legendary temper. After about a week. I will not be crafting full sets of Legendary armor any time soon.

Then check some trading guilds or even the zone chat and see how much people are selling their tempers for. Even if you are not getting tons of it, other people are, so the prices are not really high. Therefore, you will be able to buy your legendary temper and make your legendary armor if you want to.

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Thats 42 sets that are a distinct look. Bonuses come in a variety of forms, including enchantments and traits...if you only care about bonuses, the number is way higher than that.

There are unique crafted sets and drops, both of which can be improved via crafting. The 42 sets is just what you can make from scratch, it's not the only choices.

Some of the crafted sets are alright, but there are not a lot of them, specially if you want meaningful bonuses.
The dropped sets, well, most of them are too low level for a V10 to wear anyway.
And yes, bonuses come in many forms, and one of them is by having many pieces of a single armor type or a single set. This shouldn't be ignored and it is another limiting factor to customization, because to get certain bonuses you can't mix and match as much as you would be able to if you ignored the bonuses.

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Well, IMO, you're too demanding. 42 sets, in your ridiculously narrow example, are pretty damn good for a game that just launched. Which other games offered more than that at launch?

Maybe I am. If there were not so many people playing together at the same time, maybe I wouldn't care that much. If we could use the stats of a high level/quality piece with a low lvl/quality armor, like on GW2 for example, I certainly would be absolutely fine with the variety we have. I wouldn't even ask for dyes.

SadisticSavior wrote: »

I might agree with you if this is all there will ever be, but we both know that is not the case. There will be patches and add-ons that add to this.

Add-ons can't modify textures or add new armor to the game, so no, there won't be add-ons that add to this. Will there be patches? Certainly. That's the beauty of MMOs. They are never finished, they are always improving, but if we ignore a problem and just hope that the devs will read our minds and add what we want, we might be really disappointed in the end. That's why I keep complaining about the lack of black hair for Altmer every now and then, and that's why I am complaining about the lack of variety of armor skins in the end game now.

SadisticSavior

Abeille wrote: »

Add-ons can't modify textures or add new armor to the game

By add-ons I meant expansions, not just UI tweaks.

Abeille wrote: »

Will there be patches? Certainly. That's the beauty of MMOs. They are never finished, they are always improving, but if we ignore a problem and just hope that the devs will read our minds and add what we want, we might be really disappointed in the end.

I think the DEVs were already planning on expanding this stuff before anyone ever complained about it. But the complaining doesn't really bother me. And more variety would not be a bad thing.

Rainingblood

This is a dead horse. There are a ton of threads on this topic and the devs have said they will most likely be adding more armor customization, but it will be in a future patch.

Lookoutitsdomkeub17_ESO

SadisticSavior wrote: »

derpmonster wrote: »

800? You're gonna have to explain that one because there are only 15 different sets of armor in the game. 5 of those only have 1 specific look.

2 Sexes
10 racial motifs (playable races + Imperial)
4 classes
4 levels of quality (technically 5)

= 320 sets of armor that have a specific look.

x 3 armor types (Metal, cloth, & leather) = 960

That is not counting any unique drops, special sets, or the higher level motifs (Primal, Ancient Elf, Deadric, ect). So the real number is probably a lot higher.

This figure is only if you want complete sets...if you are mixing and matching (which almost everyone does from what I've seen), the number is exponentially larger. It also does not account for level (armor can change appearance by level as well).

The number of combinations at this point is staggering. It's a lot. Dyes would be awesome, but it is not as if we have painfully limited choices right now. Thats a lot of choices already.

Don't figure gender into it, that makes no sense. It's the same armor, it just changes how it looks depending on gender. In the same armor a male will look different from a female, which means that it shouldn't be figured into your calculation. It IS the same armor, not different armor. Classes also shouldn't be figured into it because a mage can wear heavy armor and look the same as a dragonknight.

So it should really be just 10 racial motifs, 3 armor classes (heavy/med/light) and the 5 levels of quality (white/green/blue/purple/gold). But if you want to go even further and show how they can mix and match all of the armor slots, you can factor in the 7 slots for boots, greaves, cuirass, pauldrons, gauntlets, helmet and belt.

10 level 1 motifs
3 armor classes
5 levels of quality
7 armor slots

I came to the number 1,050.

Still a lot, but you have to figure that not everyone is going to mix and match heavy/med/light armor. There are a lot of reasons for people not doing it, so you can't expect them to. The new calculation comes to be around 350. But you can't expect a level 1 to be able to upgrade their armor to more than green, MAYBE blue. 140 when you figure that in.

I myself have been using all heavy armor. It's either all grey and boring, or I get armor drops that are better than what I have, but the color is bad.
Giving players the ability to dye their armor or use costume skins to look how they want is a big part of any MMO. GW2, I feel, hit it dead on with how they used armor dye. I would love to see that sort of system brought to ESO, but it would be bad for lore and roleplay if people could dye their armor really bright, garish colors that don't fit in with the world. It should be adjusted to fit the game, but it would still be a fantastic addition.

sociald100ub17_ESO

Honestly the things people finding to whine about is just dumb.

Krym

I'd love if I could simply choose a lower quality look after a certain quality (let's say on purple and above I can select what it will look like). sometimes the purple+ looks worse than the blue.

Abeille wrote: »

Then check some trading guilds or even the zone chat and see how much people are selling their tempers for. Even if you are not getting tons of it, other people are, so the prices are not really high. Therefore, you will be able to buy your legendary temper and make your legendary armor if you want to.

slightly offtopic, but those people are not getting extraordinarily more of them, they're just selling the few that they have instead of keeping them for themselves. they either don't know better or don't care cause money is more important right now. those items will get more expensive once the majority figured out how many they need at levelcap (and that they should've kept theirs).

Eris

Don't forget about disguises. That option might allow the devs to create armor shells for characters to wear that change the appearance of the entire character... it's a possibility and a pretty easy one for them to utilize.

UnknownXV

There are a lot of options when it comes to racial styles, but when it comes to truly unique looking armor, yeah. It's a bit.. problematic. Eventually, most tanks will be in full primal or ancient elf, since it's objectively the best looking. I am fearful that it may be a bit too common.

Ways to distinguish your armor and weapons, that would be nice.

Ysbal

I rather like how DC Universe Online does it. Each character gets 3 channels, choose any color you like to go in them and those three channels can be picked to go among the 3 channels that each piece of gear has.

It would probably be a coding nightmare and would mean redesigning all the armors, I think. I'm not sure how this sort of stuff works.

Otherwise, I agree with everyone who said "dyes." Add the dyes during crafting maybe?

Abeille

grayssonb16_ESO wrote: »

I'd love if I could simply choose a lower quality look after a certain quality (let's say on purple and above I can select what it will look like). sometimes the purple+ looks worse than the blue.

Abeille wrote: »

Then check some trading guilds or even the zone chat and see how much people are selling their tempers for. Even if you are not getting tons of it, other people are, so the prices are not really high. Therefore, you will be able to buy your legendary temper and make your legendary armor if you want to.

slightly offtopic, but those people are not getting extraordinarily more of them, they're just selling the few that they have instead of keeping them for themselves. they either don't know better or don't care cause money is more important right now. those items will get more expensive once the majority figured out how many they need at levelcap (and that they should've kept theirs).

That makes sense, though I am getting them quite frequently (I have more yellow tempers than blue tempers atm).

Separating skin from stats would be great. Being able to use a low level skin with high level stats would be incredible. It ia my favourite thing about GW2's character customization.
Usually, people say "but it would make pvp confusing and it would mislead people", but we can use costumes over our gear already so it doesn't really matter if my gear looks less powerful than it really is. I mean, just go full power on everyone regardless of what they are wearing.

Katkon

Well, other than the occasional math-based argument that suggests that "there's plenty to choose from, aesthetics and personal preference be darned", I'm clearly seeing others suggest that dyes and more visual customization would be welcomed.

Personally, I like the Imperial look - in general. I also like the more traditional Breton look - both in heavy armor. I'd just like to tweak it a bit - with dyes or something else that makes it feel a bit unique but not look like I got dressed in the dark. Sounds like plenty of others feel the same way, which is good. I look fwd to the enhancements down the road.

Katkon

sociald100ub17_ESO wrote: »

Honestly the things people finding to whine about is just dumb.

I agree completely. This post is a prime example. Well done for digging it up.

Maverick827

The solution is pretty simple.

Once you unlock another crafting tier, all previous tiers of armor should be able to be crafted up to the max level of that tier. So you could have Dwarven armor at max level, or even iron armor, without losing any stats.

Catches_the_Sun

Interesting take. I hit 36 a few days ago myself and have yet to see another player wearing the same gear I am.

Also, if you're a huge fan of ESO, how can you be disappointed in the armor variety? I mean, Morrowind, Oblivion, & Skyrim didn't come close to the options that ESO has.

Valmond

Two things they could add that would exponentially increase customization options on gear.

1. Dye's, this would not only allow us to recolor our gear, but also to mix and match different racial sets without looking like someone randomly threw paint at us while we were dressing up.
2. Allow us to use lower level looks on higher level items. I like crafting, i'm levelling (in 2 cases, have already hit 50) all of the crafting skills, but what sometimes bothers me is that some styles have great looks on an item at one level, but become worse when made of higher level.

Also, why are there weird things dangling on your hips on almost all robes?
And what's going on with the Dunmer hats?

Amylee4000

I really like the crafting system, but I agree that dyes could be give more customization and see more variety in the game.

AlexDougherty

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

Ok, seriously, you are getting bored cause your armor isn't "sparkly"?

Someone get this man an in game bedazzler, STAT!

No, but the fact that everyone in the same type of armour looks virtually identical is annoying, was that the guy who was helping you before, or someone else, etc.

Some armour customisation and dyes are needed, otherwise no sense of individuality will develop, and MMOs need a sense of individuality.

Krym

Abeille wrote: »

That makes sense, though I am getting them quite frequently (I have more yellow tempers than blue tempers atm).

Separating skin from stats would be great. Being able to use a low level skin with high level stats would be incredible. It ia my favourite thing about GW2's character customization.
Usually, people say "but it would make pvp confusing and it would mislead people", but we can use costumes over our gear already so it doesn't really matter if my gear looks less powerful than it really is. I mean, just go full power on everyone regardless of what they are wearing.

nature of the RNG, I got one in two weeks, from refining ore.

thinking about player looks, I'd love if players would be able to craft costumes from armor pieces. make it a new profession or attach it to an existing one, but let us choose different pieces of armor and turn it into a single costume item we can equip.

although in the end it depends how their system handles it, it's probably easier to extend items with an extra model property we can change...

yodased

I can give you a small glimmer of hope:

During the first 10-15 beta weekends (non PTS) the armor looked painted on. It looked like all of us were wearing spandex. As time went on the armor improved and improved until we were put on the PTS and boom the armor you see now appeared out of nowhere.

The point being the DEVS obviously have put serious time and thought into the armor and I can only logically infer from this that there will be significant additions to the entire armor visual system as time progresses.

huntgod_ESO

Color matching (please done better than SWOTOR) or dyes would be a god send. I am even fine with them having to be incorporated during construction and not applied after, though from a marketing standpoint being able to apply after construction is preferable.

A better preview is also really needed, that tiny image doesn't really convey the look, I want a larger blown up image like when you look at a piece of armor.

Draaconis

I'm sorry, but what? An asthetics issue is causing loss of interest? I don't even know how to respond to that.

Krym

Draaconis wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what? An asthetics issue is causing loss of interest? I don't even know how to respond to that.

people play a game for different reasons with different interests?

Beryl

Draaconis wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what? An asthetics issue is causing loss of interest? I don't even know how to respond to that.

We all are different, aren't we? Some people can't stare for several hours in a row at a character they don't enjoy. It is quite common among MMO players and I am surprised that you don't know how to respond that.

Just like in real life I can't allow myself to go outside in a dirty shirt combined with bright green boots, in the same way in a game I can't let my character to wear a thin red cotton robe with massive green metal pauldrons. Maybe I am spoiled by other games where the degree of customisation is much higher, but here in ESO I have to choose my gear and gear upgrades not only based on their stats but also on their look. It is an absolutely not needed complexity which is hard to plan. I already gave up on trying to match heavy chest/trousers with other light armour items. Today I made a full set of ancient elf armour (6 light + heavy pants which are hidden fully under the robe) and all of it was of a disgusting pale green colour, nothing like the dark version of the icon. When I started upgrading it, the colour of the items was gradually becoming darker and darker. I did not really plan to make the helm of "purple" quality, but a "blue" helm looked much lighter than a "purple" robe and this was spoiling the look completely. All other smaller items are still lighter than the robe and helm, but at least they look symmetric.

(I am mostly talking about the colour here. Though I still can't get used to the armour which feels like a cute 3D paint on the body. When you start turning you character, heavy armour has a thickness of a paper and it is completely unnatural.)

AlexDougherty

Draaconis wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what? An asthetics issue is causing loss of interest? I don't even know how to respond to that.

Aesthetics are an important part of MMOs, if the look and feel are wrong, then the game is wrong.

Yes playing the game is still fun, but we can't express who we are, in other MMOs like SWTOR and WOW the armours and weapons are a huge aspect of the game, you choose the ones you like from those available, and it makes your character more you.

In Swtor I picked up multiple armours, that felt right, changing periodically, and the best one was a Jacket for my Agent that was a random drop, it looked perfect. This is what we want for the Elder Scrolls Online, it doesn't have to be perfect, but different and expressing personality.

Edda

Making me loose interest is a bit strongly worded but I think they went through too much trouble to make all these different armor types and not giving us more control over how we look. If I like the look of a particular level 6 armor, or whatever, it would be nice if I could keep that look for as long as I want without gimping myself. Also, while I'm not 100% sure on this there seems to be some (cool looking) armor styles that can't be reproduced by crafting.

Of all the MMOs I've played Lord of the Rings Online does it best. Vanity slots for every body armor piece (they are sadly missing weapon and shield slots). Tasteful dye colors that (mostly) look normal. The ability to turn off the graphics for not just helmets but also gloves, boots and shoulder pads (and cloaks). Because for some pieces of armors and robes there just isn't shoulder pad that wont look weird, bulky and obscuring.

Also, I want the ability to preview armor. So you know what it looks like before you craft or buy it.

Philman

I would be happy if there was more chest armor that didn't have all the flaps hanging down.