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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
How to avoid making this too easy for attacking/defending teams.
CaptainVanguard
Soul Shriven
My biggest gripe right now is that I notice right off the bat that the game's pvp core is basically, zerg rush this, zerg rush that, zerg rush the other.
Its GW2 WvW all over again, with minimal tactical values, so let me offer a few suggestions on how to improve it short, simple and paragraphed.
1. Nerf the Guards to High Hell, Players should Defend points not NPC's:
Having players forced to actually monitor their own holdings offers a better, more engaging experience where the people with large numbers will have to spread out their own troops in order to defend multiple points of interest from attacking forces.
Having NPC guards that can 1 shot a soloist is just BS, minor points of interest, such as the points around a keep should be both soloable and easily captured by smaller groups, allowing viable gurrellia tactics rather than giving people with smaller units no opportunity to catch up.
Top this off with the fact that keep sieges would be infinitely more interesting if the players had to defend them rather than the npc's, remove the interior npc's defending keeps and only keep the minimum number of guards around them to defend them, with the option to buy upgrades for guilds and keep claimants over time.
2. There are not enough ways to take a Keep aside from Rushing it to Death:
This game gives an advantage to the large team with a big army and an easily defend-able garrison, its too forgiving for a huge force to just defend itself, while even throwing an aggressive counter attack forcing the smaller group on the run.
This is where the game needs to change to favor the underdog.
- Siege Towers/Ladders:
Players have to deploy siege ladders or the more powerful siege towers onto the walls, they have weak/moderate hp respectively and act as a means of forcing your enemy to act more reactivity rather than simply hoarding up a zerg and waiting for you to try and rush the gate/treb the wall.
Points could be added to the Gate's around the outer wall, which allows players to overwhelm the defenders and capture the gateways, forcing themselves in via a back passage, this makes the game more reactive, and more entertaining, giving smaller groups more options against zergs, and large zergs in contrast more epic scale battles.
- Trebs should hit harder, Battering Rams too:
Siege weapons should also be made to be more dangerous, trebuchets could be made more expensive, but hit significantly harder, eg:
Currently, it takes about 10-20 Trebs to really hurt a wall, rework this, so that it only takes 2.
This means there's less need for a clutter of siege weapons all over the place, but also makes them more dangerous and forces defenders to actually leave the wall to attack the treb before it can do any real damage.
Battering rams should also be improved, with enough force they should be able to flat out level a gate with ease rather than struggling to damage it.
- Attrition:
Option three is the most interesting, so your enemy has the keep, but keeps need supplies or they will wither over time, introducing attrition:
This acts as a method of forcing the defenders to leave the comfort of the walls allowing smaller gurellia teams to sneak around and cap the walls, while the other teams attack the outlying areas.
So, the idea is, if a team looses an area, it starts an attrition timer, this gives your faction 20 minutes to retake the point, or your keep will be lost by attrition, rather than by direct defeat.
Players then have to capture the other two points around the area, reducing the timer by 5, each time, but increasing it in turn, if the defending team can retake a point.
As for two teams fighting over a keep, attrition would be determined by which team holds the most outlying areas at the end of the timer, dividing it to the largest cut.
3. Incentive has to be bigger than just giving the rank of emperor:
People enjoy PVE but people can get tired of farming, its more entertaining to have multiple ways of leveling, of which PvP is an option, but not a significantly valuable one when compared to its counterparts.
Ultimately, this means that PvPers should get XP when ever gaining kills, have more daily quests assosiated with PvP, and less focused ones.
e.g.
Presently, the daily quest requires me to, cap a specific area, take a specific outlying region, and scout a specific point.
For starters, do away with specific, and replace it with, simply scout an area, cap an area, and take an outlying area of any enemy position.
That way we do away with the fuss of silly semantics and make the process much more smooth.
Secondly, a fixed sum of XP per every cap, every time you capture a point, the value should respectively be given to you in a lump sum of XP, giving people reason to pvp in the first place.
4. Doors are easily exploitable in Towers:
I noticed this the other day but playing with some fellow pvpers we tried to retake a scroll from a bunch of players that had capped it, only for them to exploit the fact that they were currently locked inside one of our towers, thus, we were unable to damage it, and they were able to spam knockdowns and variant other spells to keep us from getting in.
This, should never, happen, ever.
Players should not have a cheap way of winning, as such, any non keep area should have an open door, forcing players cluttered together to actually defend it, rather than exploit a bug that requires us to sheathe weapons while opening a door.
There is nothing more kill joy than a cheap win.
So fix the exploits, or simply make it possible to enter doors seamlessly during game without having to sheathe weapons.
To me, these things would allow for some serious improvements to PvP, and finally give us something that isn't just another GW2 WvW knock off with zerging, which presently, it is.
I want to see this game do well and to do that, it needs to distinguish itself from GW2, and other games like it doing the 3 way faction keep thing.
These suggestions would be a good start, take notice, devs.
Its GW2 WvW all over again, with minimal tactical values, so let me offer a few suggestions on how to improve it short, simple and paragraphed.
1. Nerf the Guards to High Hell, Players should Defend points not NPC's:
Having players forced to actually monitor their own holdings offers a better, more engaging experience where the people with large numbers will have to spread out their own troops in order to defend multiple points of interest from attacking forces.
Having NPC guards that can 1 shot a soloist is just BS, minor points of interest, such as the points around a keep should be both soloable and easily captured by smaller groups, allowing viable gurrellia tactics rather than giving people with smaller units no opportunity to catch up.
Top this off with the fact that keep sieges would be infinitely more interesting if the players had to defend them rather than the npc's, remove the interior npc's defending keeps and only keep the minimum number of guards around them to defend them, with the option to buy upgrades for guilds and keep claimants over time.
2. There are not enough ways to take a Keep aside from Rushing it to Death:
This game gives an advantage to the large team with a big army and an easily defend-able garrison, its too forgiving for a huge force to just defend itself, while even throwing an aggressive counter attack forcing the smaller group on the run.
This is where the game needs to change to favor the underdog.
- Siege Towers/Ladders:
Players have to deploy siege ladders or the more powerful siege towers onto the walls, they have weak/moderate hp respectively and act as a means of forcing your enemy to act more reactivity rather than simply hoarding up a zerg and waiting for you to try and rush the gate/treb the wall.
Points could be added to the Gate's around the outer wall, which allows players to overwhelm the defenders and capture the gateways, forcing themselves in via a back passage, this makes the game more reactive, and more entertaining, giving smaller groups more options against zergs, and large zergs in contrast more epic scale battles.
- Trebs should hit harder, Battering Rams too:
Siege weapons should also be made to be more dangerous, trebuchets could be made more expensive, but hit significantly harder, eg:
Currently, it takes about 10-20 Trebs to really hurt a wall, rework this, so that it only takes 2.
This means there's less need for a clutter of siege weapons all over the place, but also makes them more dangerous and forces defenders to actually leave the wall to attack the treb before it can do any real damage.
Battering rams should also be improved, with enough force they should be able to flat out level a gate with ease rather than struggling to damage it.
- Attrition:
Option three is the most interesting, so your enemy has the keep, but keeps need supplies or they will wither over time, introducing attrition:
This acts as a method of forcing the defenders to leave the comfort of the walls allowing smaller gurellia teams to sneak around and cap the walls, while the other teams attack the outlying areas.
So, the idea is, if a team looses an area, it starts an attrition timer, this gives your faction 20 minutes to retake the point, or your keep will be lost by attrition, rather than by direct defeat.
Players then have to capture the other two points around the area, reducing the timer by 5, each time, but increasing it in turn, if the defending team can retake a point.
As for two teams fighting over a keep, attrition would be determined by which team holds the most outlying areas at the end of the timer, dividing it to the largest cut.
3. Incentive has to be bigger than just giving the rank of emperor:
People enjoy PVE but people can get tired of farming, its more entertaining to have multiple ways of leveling, of which PvP is an option, but not a significantly valuable one when compared to its counterparts.
Ultimately, this means that PvPers should get XP when ever gaining kills, have more daily quests assosiated with PvP, and less focused ones.
e.g.
Presently, the daily quest requires me to, cap a specific area, take a specific outlying region, and scout a specific point.
For starters, do away with specific, and replace it with, simply scout an area, cap an area, and take an outlying area of any enemy position.
That way we do away with the fuss of silly semantics and make the process much more smooth.
Secondly, a fixed sum of XP per every cap, every time you capture a point, the value should respectively be given to you in a lump sum of XP, giving people reason to pvp in the first place.
4. Doors are easily exploitable in Towers:
I noticed this the other day but playing with some fellow pvpers we tried to retake a scroll from a bunch of players that had capped it, only for them to exploit the fact that they were currently locked inside one of our towers, thus, we were unable to damage it, and they were able to spam knockdowns and variant other spells to keep us from getting in.
This, should never, happen, ever.
Players should not have a cheap way of winning, as such, any non keep area should have an open door, forcing players cluttered together to actually defend it, rather than exploit a bug that requires us to sheathe weapons while opening a door.
There is nothing more kill joy than a cheap win.
So fix the exploits, or simply make it possible to enter doors seamlessly during game without having to sheathe weapons.
To me, these things would allow for some serious improvements to PvP, and finally give us something that isn't just another GW2 WvW knock off with zerging, which presently, it is.
I want to see this game do well and to do that, it needs to distinguish itself from GW2, and other games like it doing the 3 way faction keep thing.
These suggestions would be a good start, take notice, devs.
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