Vengeance insanity

CappyCaineZ · July 22

So because no one likes Vengeance PVP, which is kind of obvious as it’s never had a single one bar on any alliance since it’s been running, unlike Blackreach and Greyhost. So the powers that be have decided in their infinite wisdom to remove Black Reach & Greyhost, thus forcing all pvp players to use Vengeance and guess what, still not a single bar is getting filled. Players are now either playing PVE or worse still, gone to games like Crimson Desert.

Now I’ve played ESO for many years with over 850 days of actual game play and the vast majority of my time was spent in U50, Icereach… I’ve spent many hours perfecting many U50 sets over the years, all of which are now useless and I can’t deconstruct them because I know the moment I do so, ESO will undoubtedly bring Icereach back! So obviously like so many others I’m not happy with the current thinking of ESO.

To make matters worse, you can no longer increase your mount speed by doing the Cyrodiil quest because you simply cannot use the temporary siege repair kit in Vengeance… Seriously unbelievable thinking on the part of the Devs.

Can we please have the U50 campaign back so we can get back to enjoying PVP as it was before?

I did actually try to send in a support ticket about this but amazingly, that doesn’t work either…

Friendly-assasin81 · July 22

Thank you american.
On the eu server we have 2-3 bars in Vengeance.
Im in a pvp guild that plays Greyhost every night(this week Vengeance every night).
We don't really like it either, but pvp is what we do.
Why would you decon your sets because of a one week test???
You can also increase your mount speed with other means.
Good luck.

Sidewaves89 · July 22

You spent majority of 850 days of actual gameplay in Icereach killing newbies?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 22

CappyCaineZ wrote: »

I’ve spent many hours perfecting many U50 sets over the years exploiting the low level gear scaling mechanics against new players

Fixed the above sentence. I hope they don't bring Icereach back - Vengeance is a far better system for new players (I'm speaking about the template character and gear not mattering mechanics not any other aspects).

CatalinaWineMixer2 · July 22

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

LadyGP · July 22

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

But the vast majority are, if we are being honest.

Katheriah · July 22

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Amy

I think if there was ingame communcation about the Vengeance test that more people would join ánd people would not worry like this. Zonechat in Vengeance still has people joining that have no clue and I feel like OP here also missed that this is a temporary test.

xylteh · July 22

Katheriah wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Amy

I think if there was ingame communcation about the Vengeance test that more people would join ánd people would not worry like this. Zonechat in Vengeance still has people joining that have no clue and I feel like OP here also missed that this is a temporary test.

It's not the point. I think he is aware that it is a temporary test but it just keeps happening and we are forced to play either vengeance or other games as players who enjoy normal campaigns only. We are unable to play it since they are closed during the test. If this was a one time thing I guess we wouldn't care so much but it just keeps happening over and over! I pay for my ESO+ each month and play this game just to enjoy regular cyrodiil so I basically already lost over a full month of my eso+ when I wasn't able to play it due to other campaigns being closed in order to force us to participate in yet another vengeance test.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 22

Katheriah wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Amy

I think if there was ingame communcation about the Vengeance test that more people would join ánd people would not worry like this. Zonechat in Vengeance still has people joining that have no clue and I feel like OP here also missed that this is a temporary test.

It's a misuse of resources that should be focused on improving GH. This is the most generous critique of the current situation that can be made.

DiouriR · July 22

I think it's really smart that ZOS shoves a campaign nobody wants down our throat when their playerbase is being cut every day. You guys should just make vengeance permanent so people can finally call it a day with this game. Mismanagement so criminal it rivals Bungee's handling of Destiny 2 lmfao

BardokRedSnow · July 22

Friendly-assasin81 wrote: »

Thank you american.
On the eu server we have 2-3 bars in Vengeance.

Good luck.

The company is american, the majority of people playing the game are american. So good luck keeping the lights on for this game without us.

LarsS · July 22

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Friendly-assasin81 wrote: »

Thank you american.
On the eu server we have 2-3 bars in Vengeance.

Good luck.

The company is american, the majority of people playing the game are american. So good luck keeping the lights on for this game without us.

As far as I am aware of ZOS statements on server pop, PC/EU is the biggest by some margin. The statment is probably 3 years old, do you have a newer statement from ZOS?

Gabriel_H · July 22

DiouriR wrote: »

I think it's really smart that ZOS shoves a campaign nobody wants down our throat when their playerbase is being cut every day. You guys should just make vengeance permanent so people can finally call it a day with this game. Mismanagement so criminal it rivals Bungee's handling of Destiny 2 lmfao

Vengeance as is isn't the final product. It's still a testing environment. They need a large number of players in Vengeance to test. Y'all weren't helping with that, so they forced the issue.

Do you want Cyrodiil fixed or not? The more people participate, the quicker ZOS gets the data it needs, and the faster Vengeance moves closer to the GH ruleset.

There is this notion out there that Vengeance is a direct competitor to GH. It isn't. It's ZOS stripping the ruleset back and adding things back in an attempt to get as close to GH as possible without tanking the performance.

Gabriel_H · July 22

LarsS wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Friendly-assasin81 wrote: »

Thank you american.
On the eu server we have 2-3 bars in Vengeance.

Good luck.

The company is american, the majority of people playing the game are american. So good luck keeping the lights on for this game without us.

As far as I am aware of ZOS statements on server pop, PC/EU is the biggest by some margin. The statment is probably 3 years old, do you have a newer statement from ZOS?

Extrapolating from the NM scores, we can reasonably surmise that PC EU is the bigger server, but across all platforms NA is bigger as they have a 2:1 share of consoles.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · July 22

Gabriel_H wrote: »

DiouriR wrote: »

I think it's really smart that ZOS shoves a campaign nobody wants down our throat when their playerbase is being cut every day. You guys should just make vengeance permanent so people can finally call it a day with this game. Mismanagement so criminal it rivals Bungee's handling of Destiny 2 lmfao

Vengeance as is isn't the final product. It's still a testing environment. They need a large number of players in Vengeance to test. Y'all weren't helping with that, so they forced the issue.

Do you want Cyrodiil fixed or not? The more people participate, the quicker ZOS gets the data it needs, and the faster Vengeance moves closer to the GH ruleset.

There is this notion out there that Vengeance is a direct competitor to GH. It isn't. It's ZOS stripping the ruleset back and adding things back in an attempt to get as close to GH as possible without tanking the performance.

Dam Brian Wheeler’s alt is here too!

BigPlays420 · July 22

DiouriR wrote: »

I think it's really smart that ZOS shoves a campaign nobody wants down our throat when their playerbase is being cut every day. You guys should just make vengeance permanent so people can finally call it a day with this game. Mismanagement so criminal it rivals Bungee's handling of Destiny 2 lmfao

Watching Zenimax destroy its own game is truly a sight to behold. If they mandate another test I believe it’ll truly be over for PvP.

Sylosi · July 22

LadyGP wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

But the vast majority are, if we are being honest.

If we are being honest, there aren't many PvP'ers in GH any more.

People who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc, none of these people are PvP'ers, roleplayers is more accurate.

Which is of course the problem with "PvP" like Cyrodiil, the near total lack of mechanisms to produce competitive PvP means these type of games only last as PvP games as long as the amount of tryhard guilds / players is there to bandage over that flaw. But that ship sailed long ago.

All that is left is "PvP" that is mostly uncompetitve, low skilled and boring AF to actual PvPer's, which is why barely anyone plays it any more.

NovelliESO · July 22

Gabriel_H wrote: »

DiouriR wrote: »

I think it's really smart that ZOS shoves a campaign nobody wants down our throat when their playerbase is being cut every day. You guys should just make vengeance permanent so people can finally call it a day with this game. Mismanagement so criminal it rivals Bungee's handling of Destiny 2 lmfao

Vengeance as is isn't the final product. It's still a testing environment. They need a large number of players in Vengeance to test. Y'all weren't helping with that, so they forced the issue.

Do you want Cyrodiil fixed or not? The more people participate, the quicker ZOS gets the data it needs, and the faster Vengeance moves closer to the GH ruleset.

There is this notion out there that Vengeance is a direct competitor to GH. It isn't. It's ZOS stripping the ruleset back and adding things back in an attempt to get as close to GH as possible without tanking the performance.

You have said this over 50 times in the last week. You literally got a few of your comments removed for trolling because you called people delusional while you yourself lacked the ability to read when a ZOS member said there were "no plans" to remove gh, meaning there was no concrete yes or no. You shill constantly but prove nothing. Are you not tired of saying absolutely nothing yet being on the forums for hours on end every single day?

xylteh · July 22

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Friendly-assasin81 wrote: »

Thank you american.
On the eu server we have 2-3 bars in Vengeance.

Good luck.

The company is american, the majority of people playing the game are american. So good luck keeping the lights on for this game without us.[/quot

Friendly-assasin81 wrote: »

Thank you american.
On the eu server we have 2-3 bars in Vengeance.
Im in a pvp guild that plays Greyhost every night(this week Vengeance every night).
We don't really like it either, but pvp is what we do.
Why would you decon your sets because of a one week test???
You can also increase your mount speed with other means.
Good luck.

PC/EU here. Many of us give it a try during the first day then we usually quit to play something else or do PVE / IC, you usually won't see 2/3 bars of players in IC unless its mayhem or vengeance test lol. When we had vengeance and GH as option side by side we had to wait in 100 players queue to enter GH. Being forced to participate in this test for a week straight over and over without any other reasonable alternative is just really disappointing.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 22

Sylosi wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

But the vast majority are, if we are being honest.

If we are being honest, there aren't many PvP'ers in GH any more.

People who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc, none of these people are PvP'ers, roleplayers is more accurate.

Which is of course the problem with "PvP" like Cyrodiil, the near total lack of mechanisms to produce competitive PvP means these type of games only last as PvP games as long as the amount of tryhard guilds / players is there to bandage over that flaw. But that ship sailed long ago.

All that is left is "PvP" that is mostly uncompetitve, low skilled and boring AF to actual PvPer's, which is why barely anyone plays it any more.

If we are being honest, your post that's quoted isn't fact based.

NovelliESO · July 22

Sylosi wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

But the vast majority are, if we are being honest.

If we are being honest, there aren't many PvP'ers in GH any more.

People who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc, none of these people are PvP'ers, roleplayers is more accurate.

Which is of course the problem with "PvP" like Cyrodiil, the near total lack of mechanisms to produce competitive PvP means these type of games only last as PvP games as long as the amount of tryhard guilds / players is there to bandage over that flaw. But that ship sailed long ago.

All that is left is "PvP" that is mostly uncompetitve, low skilled and boring AF to actual PvPer's, which is why barely anyone plays it any more.

Not many PvPers yet BR had to be reopened just to lessen the constant que in GH. Makes sense.

Sylosi · July 22

NovelliESO wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

But the vast majority are, if we are being honest.

If we are being honest, there aren't many PvP'ers in GH any more.

People who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc, none of these people are PvP'ers, roleplayers is more accurate.

Which is of course the problem with "PvP" like Cyrodiil, the near total lack of mechanisms to produce competitive PvP means these type of games only last as PvP games as long as the amount of tryhard guilds / players is there to bandage over that flaw. But that ship sailed long ago.

All that is left is "PvP" that is mostly uncompetitve, low skilled and boring AF to actual PvPer's, which is why barely anyone plays it any more.

Not many PvPers yet BR had to be reopened just to lessen the constant que in GH. Makes sense.

When I started this game IIRC there were 8 or 9 max level campaigns, each had a map population cap of 1800 (or 900 depending on who you believe), most of them were also far more active than GH has been in years.

What do you have now, one laughably termed "healthy" campaign, which has a map cap of 360 (or probably even lower now), which on most platforms is basically a ghostown with a handful of players for most hours of the day outside prime and even NA PC is only a little better in that regard, but still pitiful in comparison to when Cyrodiil wasn't dead.

You could fit GH & BR into a single instance of one of the older campaigns and still have hundreds of slots to spare.

And then of course you have that a large chunk of the remaining population are more roleplayer than PvPer - people who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc.

Maybe in a roleplay world that is "PvP", but for actual PvP'ers the state of the alleged ESO "PvP" playerbase is part of reason Cyrodiil is so unappealing and most of us quit it years ago and why so few still play it.

And for fun, let's compare it to an actual successful PvP game, I was playing CS2 the other day, when I was on there were 1.3 million other people playing it, ESO PvP is a rounding error in comparison. And that isn't because it is some hidden unappreciated gem, it is because the PvP it serves up is mostly really, really bad, even by its own standards it just got worse and worse over the years.

But as that CS2 comparison is somewhat unfair let's compare to the other MMORPG with something like Cyrodiil (GW2), last time I played these games GW2's equivalent of Cyrodiil had at least 4 times the population, and that is in a game 2 years older and in a game mode that is also considered dead by most of us that played it at launch. Even by the tragically low standards of MMORPG PVP and failed niche of MMORPG RvR, Cyrodiil is bad.

Gabriel_H · July 22

[snip]

Cyrodiil doesn't need a fix? That's the most laughable thing I have ever heard.

[removed quote]

Gabriel_H · July 22

NovelliESO wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

But the vast majority are, if we are being honest.

If we are being honest, there aren't many PvP'ers in GH any more.

People who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc, none of these people are PvP'ers, roleplayers is more accurate.

Which is of course the problem with "PvP" like Cyrodiil, the near total lack of mechanisms to produce competitive PvP means these type of games only last as PvP games as long as the amount of tryhard guilds / players is there to bandage over that flaw. But that ship sailed long ago.

All that is left is "PvP" that is mostly uncompetitve, low skilled and boring AF to actual PvPer's, which is why barely anyone plays it any more.

Not many PvPers yet BR had to be reopened just to lessen the constant que in GH. Makes sense.

At any given moment there are between 40,000 to 80,000 people online, of that there are less than 2,000 across 6 servers, in Cyrodiil.

Gabriel_H · July 22

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

DiouriR wrote: »

I think it's really smart that ZOS shoves a campaign nobody wants down our throat when their playerbase is being cut every day. You guys should just make vengeance permanent so people can finally call it a day with this game. Mismanagement so criminal it rivals Bungee's handling of Destiny 2 lmfao

Vengeance as is isn't the final product. It's still a testing environment. They need a large number of players in Vengeance to test. Y'all weren't helping with that, so they forced the issue.

Do you want Cyrodiil fixed or not? The more people participate, the quicker ZOS gets the data it needs, and the faster Vengeance moves closer to the GH ruleset.

There is this notion out there that Vengeance is a direct competitor to GH. It isn't. It's ZOS stripping the ruleset back and adding things back in an attempt to get as close to GH as possible without tanking the performance.

Dam Brian Wheeler’s alt is here too!

Try making an actual argument, instead of attempting insults.

NovelliESO · July 22

Gabriel_H wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

But the vast majority are, if we are being honest.

If we are being honest, there aren't many PvP'ers in GH any more.

People who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc, none of these people are PvP'ers, roleplayers is more accurate.

Which is of course the problem with "PvP" like Cyrodiil, the near total lack of mechanisms to produce competitive PvP means these type of games only last as PvP games as long as the amount of tryhard guilds / players is there to bandage over that flaw. But that ship sailed long ago.

All that is left is "PvP" that is mostly uncompetitve, low skilled and boring AF to actual PvPer's, which is why barely anyone plays it any more.

Not many PvPers yet BR had to be reopened just to lessen the constant que in GH. Makes sense.

At any given moment there are between 40,000 to 80,000 people online, of that there are less than 2,000 across 6 servers, in Cyrodiil.

Provide a source. You were asked to provide a source last time you made up numbers about the population and didn't do so. In addition, ESO's PvP population was never the majority so your point is moot. Keep coming back here to make another 100 comments a week while saying nothing of value as you dance around providing sources though.

Korvax_Ironwhisper · July 22

So far my guild has been pretty positive about this rendition with more sets unlocked. I see bombers wiping out silly Gus' pixel stacking on flags and stuff. While I am not sure removing the other campaigns temporarily is the best route, they must have reasons. I think Vengeance is heading in a better place though, you have to remember one bar of Vengeance is three bars of normal campaigns, right? When the teams are balanced, it is a lot of fun and the lag has been minimal for how massive some of the battles have been. If that happened on GH I would have crashed or disconnected and been moved to the front of home base.

Lord_Hev · July 23

Sylosi wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

But the vast majority are, if we are being honest.

If we are being honest, there aren't many PvP'ers in GH any more.

People who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc, none of these people are PvP'ers, roleplayers is more accurate.

Which is of course the problem with "PvP" like Cyrodiil, the near total lack of mechanisms to produce competitive PvP means these type of games only last as PvP games as long as the amount of tryhard guilds / players is there to bandage over that flaw. But that ship sailed long ago.

All that is left is "PvP" that is mostly uncompetitve, low skilled and boring AF to actual PvPer's, which is why barely anyone plays it any more.

Not many PvPers yet BR had to be reopened just to lessen the constant que in GH. Makes sense.

When I started this game IIRC there were 8 or 9 max level campaigns, each had a map population cap of 1800 (or 900 depending on who you believe), most of them were also far more active than GH has been in years.

What do you have now, one laughably termed "healthy" campaign, which has a map cap of 360 (or probably even lower now), which on most platforms is basically a ghostown with a handful of players for most hours of the day outside prime and even NA PC is only a little better in that regard, but still pitiful in comparison to when Cyrodiil wasn't dead.

You could fit GH & BR into a single instance of one of the older campaigns and still have hundreds of slots to spare.

And then of course you have that a large chunk of the remaining population are more roleplayer than PvPer - people who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc.

Maybe in a roleplay world that is "PvP", but for actual PvP'ers the state of the alleged ESO "PvP" playerbase is part of reason Cyrodiil is so unappealing and most of us quit it years ago and why so few still play it.

And for fun, let's compare it to an actual successful PvP game, I was playing CS2 the other day, when I was on there were 1.3 million other people playing it, ESO PvP is a rounding error in comparison. And that isn't because it is some hidden unappreciated gem, it is because the PvP it serves up is mostly really, really bad, even by its own standards it just got worse and worse over the years.

But as that CS2 comparison is somewhat unfair let's compare to the other MMORPG with something like Cyrodiil (GW2), last time I played these games GW2's equivalent of Cyrodiil had at least 4 times the population, and that is in a game 2 years older and in a game mode that is also considered dead by most of us that played it at launch. Even by the tragically low standards of MMORPG PVP and failed niche of MMORPG RvR, Cyrodiil is bad.

The problem with eso pvp right now isn't the fact that it is filled with "non-pvpers". The problem is that it is filled with predominately pvp-focused sweats that treat it like it's esports. And it far outweighs the casual population.

The cyrodiil you remember back then had plenty of hardcore pvp guilds, groups, and players. But it also had a MASSIVE amount of interested casuals that were able to enjoy the content just as much as the sweats. This large pool of players created an environment of vibrancy.

ESO now has had an avalanche of "snow-ball" accumulating balance changes that have ironically tuned the game for min-max optimization. It is a PvE and PvP problem btw, not exclusive to PvP. As this pertains to Cyrodiil, most of the casuals who would naturally dip their toes in Cyrodiil, do so for only brief moments then never return. The environment is overwhelmingly oppressive compared to 2014. So only actual PvPers remain. And yes, the steady constant performance decline also plays a part, but the greatest consensus I have seen from ex pvpers that quit the game long ago, was the direction ZoS was taking that led them to make that decision. These are balance issues first and foremost. People will suffer through bad performance, as long as it's still fun to fight and feel like you are actually doing something. Hardcore/dedicated/committed players can endure this. The vast vibrant casual population, cannot.

CappyCaineZ · July 23

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

GH just like BR is for Zerglings, Icereach U50 is a lot more skill based and more fun, especially back in the days when we had a continuous Blue/Red war going on.

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

At least they’ve fixed that then

Katheriah wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Amy

I think if there was ingame communcation about the Vengeance test that more people would join ánd people would not worry like this. Zonechat in Vengeance still has people joining that have no clue and I feel like OP here also missed that this is a temporary test.

It’s been an extremely long and painful test, how long does it take Devs to realise no one likes Vengeance?

Friendly-assasin81 · July 23

CappyCaineZ wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

GH just like BR is for Zerglings, Icereach U50 is a lot more skill based and more fun, especially back in the days when we had a continuous Blue/Red war going on.

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

At least they’ve fixed that then

Katheriah wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Amy

I think if there was ingame communcation about the Vengeance test that more people would join ánd people would not worry like this. Zonechat in Vengeance still has people joining that have no clue and I feel like OP here also missed that this is a temporary test.

It’s been an extremely long and painful test, how long does it take Devs to realise no one likes Vengeance?

We're on the 4th day...

ceruulean · July 23

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

You can use the repair kit now, they changed it. 'All PvP players' are not just the people who play GH.

But the vast majority are, if we are being honest.

If we are being honest, there aren't many PvP'ers in GH any more.

People who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc, none of these people are PvP'ers, roleplayers is more accurate.

Which is of course the problem with "PvP" like Cyrodiil, the near total lack of mechanisms to produce competitive PvP means these type of games only last as PvP games as long as the amount of tryhard guilds / players is there to bandage over that flaw. But that ship sailed long ago.

All that is left is "PvP" that is mostly uncompetitve, low skilled and boring AF to actual PvPer's, which is why barely anyone plays it any more.

Not many PvPers yet BR had to be reopened just to lessen the constant que in GH. Makes sense.

When I started this game IIRC there were 8 or 9 max level campaigns, each had a map population cap of 1800 (or 900 depending on who you believe), most of them were also far more active than GH has been in years.

What do you have now, one laughably termed "healthy" campaign, which has a map cap of 360 (or probably even lower now), which on most platforms is basically a ghostown with a handful of players for most hours of the day outside prime and even NA PC is only a little better in that regard, but still pitiful in comparison to when Cyrodiil wasn't dead.

You could fit GH & BR into a single instance of one of the older campaigns and still have hundreds of slots to spare.

And then of course you have that a large chunk of the remaining population are more roleplayer than PvPer - people who do virtually nothing but sit on siege, zerglings who run down 2 guys with 20 people but run from 1v1, ballgroups who spend the vast majority of their time "fighting" pugs rather than other groups, PvDoor zombies, etc.

Maybe in a roleplay world that is "PvP", but for actual PvP'ers the state of the alleged ESO "PvP" playerbase is part of reason Cyrodiil is so unappealing and most of us quit it years ago and why so few still play it.

And for fun, let's compare it to an actual successful PvP game, I was playing CS2 the other day, when I was on there were 1.3 million other people playing it, ESO PvP is a rounding error in comparison. And that isn't because it is some hidden unappreciated gem, it is because the PvP it serves up is mostly really, really bad, even by its own standards it just got worse and worse over the years.

But as that CS2 comparison is somewhat unfair let's compare to the other MMORPG with something like Cyrodiil (GW2), last time I played these games GW2's equivalent of Cyrodiil had at least 4 times the population, and that is in a game 2 years older and in a game mode that is also considered dead by most of us that played it at launch. Even by the tragically low standards of MMORPG PVP and failed niche of MMORPG RvR, Cyrodiil is bad.

The problem with eso pvp right now isn't the fact that it is filled with "non-pvpers". The problem is that it is filled with predominately pvp-focused sweats that treat it like it's esports. And it far outweighs the casual population.

The cyrodiil you remember back then had plenty of hardcore pvp guilds, groups, and players. But it also had a MASSIVE amount of interested casuals that were able to enjoy the content just as much as the sweats. This large pool of players created an environment of vibrancy.

ESO now has had an avalanche of "snow-ball" accumulating balance changes that have ironically tuned the game for min-max optimization. It is a PvE and PvP problem btw, not exclusive to PvP. As this pertains to Cyrodiil, most of the casuals who would naturally dip their toes in Cyrodiil, do so for only brief moments then never return. The environment is overwhelmingly oppressive compared to 2014. So only actual PvPers remain. And yes, the steady constant performance decline also plays a part, but the greatest consensus I have seen from ex pvpers that quit the game long ago, was the direction ZoS was taking that led them to make that decision. These are balance issues first and foremost. People will suffer through bad performance, as long as it's still fun to fight and feel like you are actually doing something. Hardcore/dedicated/committed players can endure this. The vast vibrant casual population, cannot.

Your claim that GH is filled with PvP sweats makes less sense than the Sylosi guy you quoted. Sylosi is saying that GH is filled with casuals who don't enjoy PvP and direct confrontation. Or rather, most players will zerg because it's human nature to stick together. If a player cannot beat another in a 1v1, they will retreat or try to overwhelm with greater numbers. Nothing wrong with that. Now one person claims that GH is too sweaty and yet another claims GH is too casual. Which is true and which is just opinion?

Is the GH environment oppressive? Yes, because it is imbalanced and mostly P2W gear from dlc. Balance affects everyone. Not every player cares about balance, there will be a small majority who enjoy unbalanced chaos, and that's who remains in GH. The majority of players who prefer balance have quit and play other games with devs who balance seriously.

It makes sense because a lot of ZOS dev decisions are about introducing new and overpowered procs that are chaotic and fun rather than balanced. We can see the list of 600+ useless meme sets and how they made DK have every fun utility after rework: AOE knockback, dmg buffs, snare cleanse, speed, sustain and burst. The combat team kinda cares about balance because classes like NB, arc, and templar have restrictions in their class masteries, but balance is inconsistently applied, or applied so egregiously lopsided that it's frustrating, they shift the meta too much. Meta shifts cause people to spend money rerolling a new class/character, but it doesn't have to be to the point where 1 class dominates everything else. No AAA PvP game would make such drastic meta shifts to the point where other classes are considered a joke, but this seems to happen often with ESO because devs prioritize catering to power fantasies over balance.

On one hand, when classes do not have access to every buff, sets like Toothrow and Scourge Harvester become valuable in the Vengeance environment. A lot of old sets have a use there, which is really nice for PvP accessibility. You only need the white/green quality of items to benefit from last set bonuses. On the other hand, a modern set like Rush of Agony is very oppressive and can chain pull you from 100 miles away because of desync, and it does not belong in Vengeance or Cyrodiil for that matter. However, devs want to keep a set that bypasses CC immunity because it fulfills a power fantasy of chain domination control, as paraphrased from a patch note. Here, the Rush of Agony set is an example where the devs explicitly decided to forgo balance in favor of power fantasy.

I don't think sweats who treat pvp as esports would appreciate GH because there's no balance, and most of them went to play Ravenwatch/Icereach or left ESO. Some have come back to check out Venegance. Most people seem to agree that balance in ESO PvP is horrendous and needs to be addressed.