The skill level of PvP players has dropped considerably.

Xarc · May 22

The skill level of PvP players has dropped considerably.
And the number of n**bs in PvP has suddenly increased.
And that's not a good thing at all.

I've been playing a lot of battlegrounds for a while now (several years?), and I can tell you that the skill level of the players has dropped significantly.

What do I mean by that?
Well, when a player doesn't even bother to use the basic game moves—dodge, block, run—against an opponent who's attacking him, I think that's a major problem.

The likely reasons:

A) the fact that the TOMES (only) require participation in a Battleground. Some people come and don't even bother to enter the arena. So for them it's even worse, but anyway.
B ) The fact that ZENIMAX constantly gives players ways to instantly kill other players effortlessly, the famous "press to win" button. Between skills (hello arca's beam), mythics, and proc sets... you basically don't need to learn how to play anymore.
C) the new generation of players for whom everything must be easy or else they should give up. (I must be an old fool, I belong to that generation where we learn to play and where victory is earned.)

Alongside this, the number of good players who quit out/AFK of frustration has also increased.
This is a sign that things aren't going well.

I think this is killing the game.
Perhaps something needs to be done?

Luneca · May 22

I'd say the level dropped because the game allows you to facetank damage like never before, allows you to stack damage like never before. Roll and purge are both less relevant than ever before, etc.

The core combat mechanics in the game can be ignored for the most part this patch and the next thanks to things like block being OP, subclassing giving too much sustain (DK), gross mythics that should have been nerfed a long time ago and still have buggy interactions like ESOTERIC ENVIRONMENT, and the list goes on.

PvP in this patch does not take any skill. It hasn't taken skill for a long time, that's why players are leaving the PvP scene.

Let's say you go to PvP, you start fighting someone. They fight back. You're fighting hard, rolling, blocking, CCing them and they literally look like nothing you do is affecting them in the slightest while you are dying, and eventually die. The other guy? He just stood there and barely took any damage, never rolled, never engaged with any core combat mechanics and he still won.

^ That kind of situation is the reality in the game right now. Whether we talk about the gankers, the tower runners, the streamers, etc. you can even consider the situation the same for little siege firing me.

Core mechanics can be ignored completely in this game, but only if you know . And what "knowing" usually means is that you know something broken and exploit it to the extreme versus those that don't.

Who in their right mind can call what we have on live PvP? When the encounters are exclusively determined by builds and other nonsense before a single exchange even happens?

What's happening in PvP spaces isn't PvP. Relative power between builds and what you "know" or don't is so extreme that no one can claim that the game in its current, or even past patched states is anywher near a fair or balanced environment.

That's why the players are leaving PvP.

Xarc · May 22

Luneca wrote: »

I'd say the level dropped because the game allows you to facetank damage like never before, allows you to stack damage like never before. Roll and purge are both less relevant than ever before, etc.

yes and no.

When a player comes with 20k HP and full light armor without using any magicka shield, no move, no block, no dodge, not even sorc teleport, i mean, it's being NOOB as ***.

A lot of them dont even try to self heal.

[snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]

Luneca · May 22

Xarc wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

I'd say the level dropped because the game allows you to facetank damage like never before, allows you to stack damage like never before. Roll and purge are both less relevant than ever before, etc.

yes and no.

When a player comes with 20k HP and full light armor without using any magicka shield, no move, no block, no dodge, not even sorc teleport, i mean, it's being NOOB as ***.

A lot of them dont even try to self heal.

[snip]

See, there's the issue. In a majority of the game where do players need to roll, block, heal, or do anything? Where are they actually threatened?

Most spaces in the game (and now even PvP if you are in the right group or have someone healing you), you don't have to do anything besides do damage.

Also, I would never expect skilled players in BGs. The queue takes ages, there's no real reward besides EXP (worthless), and the experience is dependent almost entirely on team composition (factors before you even engage).

I could go to BGs, fight 4-8 sweats that are on mic and the same side because they all hit the queue button together, or... I could go to Cyrodiil and pick and choose where I fight...and fire siege.

I'm picking firing siege. Every time.

PvP is not balanced in any way, shape or form to expect any real meaningful PvP. That's the point I was trying to get across, even though it runs counter in some areas from what you've stated and believe.
[edited to remove quote]

Xarc · May 22

stop with "pvp is not balanced"

when you cant apply basics, dont cry about imbalancing. [snip]

And if you're talking about builds, the only way to get full balance would be something like "vengeance battlegrounds", but i dont know if we really want it.
[edited for baiting]

Weesacs · May 22

I cant speak for PC but on PS5 EU the population has certainly increased in recent months - this is easily backed up by the scores and number of players showing on the leaderboard.

Obviously with this increase has brought about quite a lot of new, inexperienced players to BGs which I think is a good thing.

One thing I have noticed is that with the introduction to the recent DK meta update, quite a few of the less skilled players have jumped on board and are competing better playing DK (I'm not a meta boy so have just stuck with my old and trusty Templar).

Ultimately, and which has been discussed to death on the forums, it's the MMR system to blame for the lack of balancing in BGs.

Here's the thing, and I'm not joking, as an experienced BG player who knows most of the player base, I can pretty much predict, with about 95% accuracy who is going to win the BG just by looking at the players on the teams at the beginning of a match, and thats just based off experience. With the stats a computer can hold, and the algorithms they can apply, team balancing and the MMR system should be so much better.

Blood_again · May 22

Xarc wrote: »

The skill level of PvP players has dropped considerably.
And the number of noobs in PvP has suddenly increased.
And that's not a good thing at all.

I remember you blamed the low-skilled BG players in September 2025.
If you still want the game to magically generate many skilled players for you, it doesn't work this way.

Xarc wrote: »

Perhaps something needs to be done?

We spoke about it.
Sure, plan B is that somebody has to do something to not let those bad players join the same BG with you.

Well, it is time for plan C.
The most simple and realistic way to change it from ZOS side is to set another BG mode as default, not "4x4 solo competitive" that you prefer. This way all those bad bad players you want to avoid will join something else, like "8x8 solo mode" for example. Just because they don't know and don't care which BG to choose, so they click the first option they see.

I keep insisting that playing BG with a premade group is the best solution for your case. Well, considering your demands didn't change for that period of time... it is up to you.
Also, plan C doesn't solve the real problem with players' experience etc. It only redirects the players you don't want to see to the place you don't visit. Somebody else will play with them and teach them if plan C works.

Now the hard part that you should do for plan C.
You need to persuade ZOS so they change the default BG mode in UI.
Yes, it is the part that won't work like "something needs to be done". It is your wish and your interest, so nobody but you can run it.
If you won't do it or won't manage it, well, we will meet nine months later in the same kind of topic.

newnamtab · May 22

And how would you expect causual player to learn PvP, if they can't play with you?

You don't want 'bad' players to ruin the game for you?

As I'm sure you know, when you get into a PvP area, the rules CHANGE!
Coming from PvE, where I've been doing okay.. Maybe a tough fight here and there.. My recovery suddenly drops.. My damage drops.. And I run into YOU.. A seasoned PvP'er.. And I'm dead. Didn't even get to dodge..
What have I learned?

That I should stay away from PvP, because I'm terrible, and I die instantly..
And I'm ruining it for the other PvP'ers, who don't want a noob like me running around, trying to figure out how the h... I can even make a dent in other players..

I sorry, but there's a skill gap, that needs to be adressed..
And saying people should just learn it right away, or stay away, isn't gonna adress that gap..
Basic PvP combat mechanics are bloody hard, when there's no "beginner/intermediate/veteran area".

Just "VETERAN HARDMODE GET GUD FAST, SON" area

I would love to learn and play PvP, but when I keep running into insta-death, and have to run for 10 minuttes just to get to the next insta-death, I'm not learning.
I know the builds, I know the basic mechanics, but people are just much better than me, and that kills the joy and incentive to get better.

Perhaps the Vengance campaign can help in this regard, but still seems that people with skill, are just that much better at it, to actually allow casual playes to get into PvP at their own skill level.

Aaaany way.. You have a nice day, and enjoy the game..
I know there are lots of great PvP'ers out there, to give you a good challenge, or to team up with to capture those castles.

Xarc · May 22

newnamtab wrote: »

You don't want 'bad' players to ruin the game for you?

No

I'm not saying that, I'm saying the players are getting worse and worse.

They're not casual players, they're at a very low level. What's the point of the game's tutorial at this stage?

Did you even bother to read what I wrote before replying?

Nordstern · May 22

Wow, this is a new one. Complaining about opponents being too bad, what the ???

xylena · May 22

The result of a system that privileges the stat sheet above combat skill. If you aren't up on the current gear meta, no amount of fancy fighting can save you (unless your opponents are extremely bad). Meanwhile if you lack skill, wearing busted gear can still carry you. I think we have seen by now that this is not a popular model for a PvP game.

Demonwolff · May 22

Xarc wrote: »

The skill level of PvP players has dropped considerably.
And the number of noobs in PvP has suddenly increased.
And that's not a good thing at all.

I've been playing a lot of battlegrounds for a while now (several years?), and I can tell you that the skill level of the players has dropped significantly.

What do I mean by that?
Well, when a player doesn't even bother to use the basic game moves—dodge, block, run—against an opponent who's attacking him, I think that's a major problem.

The likely reasons:
A) the fact that the TOMES (only) require participation in a Battleground. Some people come and don't even bother to enter the arena. So for them it's even worse, but anyway.

B ) The fact that ZENIMAX constantly gives players ways to instantly kill other players effortlessly, the famous "press to win" button. Between skills (hello Warlock's beam), mythics, and proc sets... you basically don't need to learn how to play anymore.

C) the new generation of players for whom everything must be easy or else they should give up. (I must be an old fool, I belong to that generation where we learn to play and where victory is earned.)

Alongside this, the number of good players who quit out/AFK of frustration has also increased.
This is a sign that things aren't going well.

I think this is killing the game.
Perhaps something needs to be done?

Lets be clear, Skill has dropped off because most of the skilled players have left the game. There are a handful left but most waved goodbye over a year ago. That holds true for Both PVP and PVE players.

The start of the erosion was the "minimization" of having to know how to L.A.W. (for newer players that's Light attack weave. under the guise of lowering the ceiling and raising the floor. epic fail, the good got better and the weak not so much)

Then came the broken proc sets, shield stacking, ridiculous heal stacks and Mythics that crutch players and allowed for a non skilled meta to be born. on this we absolutely agree.

I'm from the Old world where dinosaurs roamed the wilds of EQ. Nothing was easy there 3 day Raids that still didn't guarantee completion lol. Hard isn't a bad thing. Learning to play a class for its style isn't a bad thing.

Instant gratification That may be one of the worst things for MMOS
Designing vast amounts of solo content for MMOs not great. (I'm not saying don't have solo content, but its an MMO the name says it all. Collaboration is a must in these games. we older generation probably all have friends from our beginning days in MMORPGs.)

The reason a lot of "good" players afk/ bail on BGs is a two edged sword some do it out of frustration sure. Some do it because the thought of losing is to much for them to take and some just stand at the top and try to prolong the inevitable.
2 sided BGs will never improve, it is geared to allow one team to rofl stomp another. This is an MMR issue and will not improve until that's fixed.

However If you want "noobs" to be better, offer to help them, That's how you will get a better field of opponents. Don't give them broken sets or Mythics, reach out and offer to explain Block casting, Dodge rolling, LOS This has ever been a core value of ESO they explain nothing and rely upon the community to help new and returning players, and so we should.

Daily seekers are not what is destroying Battlegrounds, poor communication and toxic Behaviour (Canadian This is spelled correctly) is.

Avran_Sylt · May 22

I remember a time back when Tarnished Nightmare instant procced, and Merciless could be banked out of combat in the Imperial City.

The amount of 30k+ hp players I could kill because they sat flipping a flag, literally broadcasting their location to the instance, simply because they did not hold block on the objective point using Onslaught/Vamp/lowhp/Tarnished/Flame Blossom was practically every player that had more than 30K hp.

They were likely thinking any gank would usually end the same: They heal back to full in one or two GCD, then either they stalemate against a brawler build, or they kill the squishy. Back then a large complaint was that duels were stalemates.

Only the squishy players actually held block, because they actually had experience dying on point.

The pendulum has now shifted. Now we just need more sources of cleanse.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 22

They are never going to have skills again. Everyone keeps pushing more dps. More more more. Its out of control. Meta meta meta. They're all broken. Its the state of combat, what's allowed in it and the meta being so far away from anything else and also anything people think is cool or would be fun to play. Everyone is running the same things and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is all coming from. Zos needs to stop the cherry picking. They need to restore, set and enforce rules for combat. They need to remove Subclass. Or at the very least start instituting drawbacks to it to stop the cherry picking and exploits.

ToddIngram · May 22

newnamtab wrote: »

And how would you expect causual player to learn PvP, if they can't play with you?

You don't want 'bad' players to ruin the game for you?

As I'm sure you know, when you get into a PvP area, the rules CHANGE!
Coming from PvE, where I've been doing okay.. Maybe a tough fight here and there.. My recovery suddenly drops.. My damage drops.. And I run into YOU.. A seasoned PvP'er.. And I'm dead. Didn't even get to dodge..
What have I learned?

That I should stay away from PvP, because I'm terrible, and I die instantly..
And I'm ruining it for the other PvP'ers, who don't want a noob like me running around, trying to figure out how the h... I can even make a dent in other players..

I sorry, but there's a skill gap, that needs to be adressed..
And saying people should just learn it right away, or stay away, isn't gonna adress that gap..
Basic PvP combat mechanics are bloody hard, when there's no "beginner/intermediate/veteran area".

Just "VETERAN HARDMODE GET GUD FAST, SON" area

I would love to learn and play PvP, but when I keep running into insta-death, and have to run for 10 minuttes just to get to the next insta-death, I'm not learning.
I know the builds, I know the basic mechanics, but people are just much better than me, and that kills the joy and incentive to get better.

Perhaps the Vengance campaign can help in this regard, but still seems that people with skill, are just that much better at it, to actually allow casual playes to get into PvP at their own skill level.

Aaaany way.. You have a nice day, and enjoy the game..
I know there are lots of great PvP'ers out there, to give you a good challenge, or to team up with to capture those castles.

Vengeance in no way what ever prepares a player for actual PvP. That's the problem. Vengeance isn't a way to learn to be successful in normal live Pvp.

The learning curve for PvP is the same for everyone. If a player doesn't put in the effort that's on them.

ToddIngram · May 22

Demonwolff wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

The skill level of PvP players has dropped considerably.
And the number of noobs in PvP has suddenly increased.
And that's not a good thing at all.

I've been playing a lot of battlegrounds for a while now (several years?), and I can tell you that the skill level of the players has dropped significantly.

What do I mean by that?
Well, when a player doesn't even bother to use the basic game moves—dodge, block, run—against an opponent who's attacking him, I think that's a major problem.

The likely reasons:
A) the fact that the TOMES (only) require participation in a Battleground. Some people come and don't even bother to enter the arena. So for them it's even worse, but anyway.

B ) The fact that ZENIMAX constantly gives players ways to instantly kill other players effortlessly, the famous "press to win" button. Between skills (hello Warlock's beam), mythics, and proc sets... you basically don't need to learn how to play anymore.

C) the new generation of players for whom everything must be easy or else they should give up. (I must be an old fool, I belong to that generation where we learn to play and where victory is earned.)

Alongside this, the number of good players who quit out/AFK of frustration has also increased.
This is a sign that things aren't going well.

I think this is killing the game.
Perhaps something needs to be done?

Lets be clear, Skill has dropped off because most of the skilled players have left the game. There are a handful left but most waved goodbye over a year ago. That holds true for Both PVP and PVE players.

The start of the erosion was the "minimization" of having to know how to L.A.W. (for newer players that's Light attack weave. under the guise of lowering the ceiling and raising the floor. epic fail, the good got better and the weak not so much)

Then came the broken proc sets, shield stacking, ridiculous heal stacks and Mythics that crutch players and allowed for a non skilled meta to be born. on this we absolutely agree.

I'm from the Old world where dinosaurs roamed the wilds of EQ. Nothing was easy there 3 day Raids that still didn't guarantee completion lol. Hard isn't a bad thing. Learning to play a class for its style isn't a bad thing.

Instant gratification That may be one of the worst things for MMOS
Designing vast amounts of solo content for MMOs not great. (I'm not saying don't have solo content, but its an MMO the name says it all. Collaboration is a must in these games. we older generation probably all have friends from our beginning days in MMORPGs.)

The reason a lot of "good" players afk/ bail on BGs is a two edged sword some do it out of frustration sure. Some do it because the thought of losing is to much for them to take and some just stand at the top and try to prolong the inevitable.
2 sided BGs will never improve, it is geared to allow one team to rofl stomp another. This is an MMR issue and will not improve until that's fixed.

However If you want "noobs" to be better, offer to help them, That's how you will get a better field of opponents. Don't give them broken sets or Mythics, reach out and offer to explain Block casting, Dodge rolling, LOS This has ever been a core value of ESO they explain nothing and rely upon the community to help new and returning players, and so we should.

Daily seekers are not what is destroying Battlegrounds, poor communication and toxic Behaviour (Canadian This is spelled correctly) is.

Most of the end game players left with U35. Nefas did a great hour long video as to how and why this would happen. ZOS ignored the warning and went ahead anyway. The game has severely struggled with keeping the population up since then. Then there is the fact that ZOS is just shy of openly hostile to the PvP community. People get tired of being dissed sooner or later if they have any self respect.

ToddIngram · May 22

Xarc wrote: »

newnamtab wrote: »

You don't want 'bad' players to ruin the game for you?

No

I'm not saying that, I'm saying the players are getting worse and worse.

They're not casual players, they're at a very low level. What's the point of the game's tutorial at this stage?

Did you even bother to read what I wrote before replying?

The newer players in PvP are also notably more toxic than the original community. There is even a guild on PC NA that mass reports everyone who uses "foul" language in zone chat and gets people banned for language while at the same time promoting their religion and zos just lets them carry on anyway.

SkaiFaith · May 22

Guys guys guys... Playing PvP in ESO can be fun at any level, don't get discouraged; but engaging in forum PvP when a veteran PvPer taunts you... Don't make that mistake, unless your build is BIS and OP enough to shield you from the DragonKnight spam of Chains of Dominance - enemy sustain is infinite with that skill! Can go on forever.

Xarc · May 22

Demonwolff wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

The skill level of PvP players has dropped considerably.
And the number of noobs in PvP has suddenly increased.
And that's not a good thing at all.

I've been playing a lot of battlegrounds for a while now (several years?), and I can tell you that the skill level of the players has dropped significantly.

What do I mean by that?
Well, when a player doesn't even bother to use the basic game moves—dodge, block, run—against an opponent who's attacking him, I think that's a major problem.

The likely reasons:
A) the fact that the TOMES (only) require participation in a Battleground. Some people come and don't even bother to enter the arena. So for them it's even worse, but anyway.

B ) The fact that ZENIMAX constantly gives players ways to instantly kill other players effortlessly, the famous "press to win" button. Between skills (hello Warlock's beam), mythics, and proc sets... you basically don't need to learn how to play anymore.

C) the new generation of players for whom everything must be easy or else they should give up. (I must be an old fool, I belong to that generation where we learn to play and where victory is earned.)

Alongside this, the number of good players who quit out/AFK of frustration has also increased.
This is a sign that things aren't going well.

I think this is killing the game.
Perhaps something needs to be done?

Lets be clear, Skill has dropped off because most of the skilled players have left the game. There are a handful left but most waved goodbye over a year ago. That holds true for Both PVP and PVE players.

You're certainly right. This must have a significant impact on the current PvP community.

That said, I'm still quite optimistic;

firstly, the DK rework has brought some players back. At least, maybe some who had simply left PvP for PvE have returned to PvP, who knows?

Secondly, there are always new players starting ESO. That's a good thing; the game is alive. These players are supposed to take over from those who left, and we shouldn't see a huge difference.

At least not a difference as striking as what's happening now.

Demonwolff wrote: »

However If you want "noobs" to be better, offer to help them, That's how you will get a better field of opponents. Don't give them broken sets or Mythics, reach out and offer to explain Block casting, Dodge rolling, LOS This has ever been a core value of ESO they explain nothing and rely upon the community to help new and returning players, and so we should.

That's ZOS's role, not mine.

My role is to punish their actions in-game. You don't block? You don't dodge? You don't run? Well, you lose.

The problem is that in battlegrounds, you're rarely alone, and sometimes a healer or another player saves your skin. How are you supposed to learn that way?

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

They are never going to have skills again. Everyone keeps pushing more dps. More more more. Its out of control. Meta meta meta. They're all broken. Its the state of combat, what's allowed in it and the meta being so far away from anything else and also anything people think is cool or would be fun to play. Everyone is running the same things and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is all coming from. Zos needs to stop the cherry picking. They need to restore, set and enforce rules for combat. They need to remove Subclass. Or at the very least start instituting drawbacks to it to stop the cherry picking and exploits.

It's true that the subclasses haven't helped matters at all.
Regarding the META: There has always been a META, it's not a problem, it will always exist as long as a game offers the possibility of making different builds.
But I largely agree with this sad assessment, and the ZOS Combat Team has its work cut out for it, but I'm not sure they're keen to do it right now.

ToddIngram wrote: »

The newer players in PvP are also notably more toxic than the original community. There is even a guild on PC NA that mass reports everyone who uses "foul" language in zone chat and gets people banned for language while at the same time promoting their religion and zos just lets them carry on anyway.

That's crazy.

Anyway, PvP conflicts have always existed and always will.

The problem is when behavior starts to go too far.
It seems like, based on what you're saying, the criteria for what constitutes a transgression have changed, but maybe that's just the way things are these days, and this generation of players. That's actually my point C) in my original post.

Gabriel_H · May 22

Xarc wrote: »

newnamtab wrote: »

You don't want 'bad' players to ruin the game for you?

No

I'm not saying that, I'm saying the players are getting worse and worse.

They're not casual players, they're at a very low level. What's the point of the game's tutorial at this stage?

Did you even bother to read what I wrote before replying?

The game is not designed to be played out of its box, it's designed to be learned. If you are seeing an increase in less skilled players then that is either because of:

a) There are fewer skilled players to dilute the pool
b) There are more less skilled players entering into PvP
c) A combination of the above

Scenario A would mean fewer people engaging in PvP, Scenario B would mean more people engaging in PvP, and Scenario C could be either. So, lets find a way to remove all the players you don't want in PvP, then we can go back to complaining about the lack of players in PvP.

AScarlato · May 22

I personally feel like damage is just at an all-time high so I no longer do BGs once I'm level 50. Levelling is okay because most characters are a hot mess of random skills and gear, but at 50 I feel like I die in 2 seconds no matter what I have on, so it's not fun like it was years ago.

In regards to things like players not moving, blocking, rolling, or healing I haven't seen that. I have seen players die in half a second while blocking lol. I notice this as I've been healing and some people are mowed down while being spam healed. One CC is all it takes to kill a lot of players at this point.

Demonwolff · May 22

AScarlato wrote: »

I personally feel like damage is just at an all-time high so I no longer do BGs once I'm level 50. Levelling is okay because most characters are a hot mess of random skills and gear, but at 50 I feel like I die in 2 seconds no matter what I have on, so it's not fun like it was years ago.

In regards to things like players not moving, blocking, rolling, or healing I haven't seen that. I have seen players die in half a second while blocking lol. I notice this as I've been healing and some people are mowed down while being spam healed. One CC is all it takes to kill a lot of players at this point.

TTK has never been higher that is accurate, There is an abundance of burst and damage currently however If your issue is that your doing fine until level 50 then failing The issue is more that you are suffering from one of the major flaws Inherent to the system we use and that is the JUMP BETWEEN 49 no CP to 50 CP. There is a massive jump in damage between the two that takes time to adjust too mainly due to the set strengths but also the players you face.

As for the second part I've also seen this and there are multiple factors that go into it. Broken abilities, BF and Immunity not working as intended, and again TTk and damage increases.

ToddIngram wrote: »

Most of the end game players left with U35. Nefas did a great hour long video as to how and why this would happen. ZOS ignored the warning and went ahead anyway. The game has severely struggled with keeping the population up since then. Then there is the fact that ZOS is just shy of openly hostile to the PvP community. People get tired of being dissed sooner or later if they have any self respect.

I was avoiding mentioning his name as I don't want to get started on a rant in regards to how that whole thing went down. Many of us have some extremely hard feelings towards individuals. But yes that is a great reference.

Xarc wrote: »

That's ZOS's role, not mine.

My role is to punish their actions in-game. You don't block? You don't dodge? You don't run? Well, you lose.

Then you my friend will be complaining for a Loooooooong while about this with only yourself to blame.

Be part of the solution not the problem and you will see the rewards. If you don't want to do that then enjoy your easy kills until someone else finds you and makes you the prey.

moo_2021 · May 22

AScarlato wrote: »

I personally feel like damage is just at an all-time high so I no longer do BGs once I'm level 50. Levelling is okay because most characters are a hot mess of random skills and gear, but at 50 I feel like I die in 2 seconds no matter what I have on, so it's not fun like it was years ago.

In regards to things like players not moving, blocking, rolling, or healing I haven't seen that. I have seen players die in half a second while blocking lol. I notice this as I've been healing and some people are mowed down while being spam healed. One CC is all it takes to kill a lot of players at this point.

The damage is higher than when I started before U35, but so are healing and tankiness. These days you wouldn't find anyone walking without several HoT running simultaneously. In fact if you had tried to duel anyone on your level, the duel would probably last until both of you give up because neither can kill each other and it's just wasting costly potions.

Being a forever noob, my trick is to build max resist, health and health-scaled healing, then figure out how to do damage from there. It slows down the whole game to an acceptable level.

Divine1976 · May 22

Skilled players lol

Didn't see too much of this skill in Vengeance without the broken builds

AScarlato · May 22

moo_2021 wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

I personally feel like damage is just at an all-time high so I no longer do BGs once I'm level 50. Levelling is okay because most characters are a hot mess of random skills and gear, but at 50 I feel like I die in 2 seconds no matter what I have on, so it's not fun like it was years ago.

In regards to things like players not moving, blocking, rolling, or healing I haven't seen that. I have seen players die in half a second while blocking lol. I notice this as I've been healing and some people are mowed down while being spam healed. One CC is all it takes to kill a lot of players at this point.

The damage is higher than when I started before U35, but so are healing and tankiness. These days you wouldn't find anyone walking without several HoT running simultaneously. In fact if you had tried to duel anyone on your level, the duel would probably last until both of you give up because neither can kill each other and it's just wasting costly potions.

Being a forever noob, my trick is to build max resist, health and health-scaled healing, then figure out how to do damage from there. It slows down the whole game to an acceptable level.

Maybe I'll give that a shot, I did used to enjoy my "tank" but lately he isn't lasting as long as he used to since he seems to now lack the healing and sustain.

Demonwolff · May 22

Divine1976 wrote: »

Skilled players lol

Didn't see too much of this skill in Vengeance without the broken builds

Part of that is because there is no agency or counterplay in vengeance currently, Given time I'm hoping they will allow for some morphs to abilities while still holding to the principle that PVP can be conducted without crutch sets and be fun. I've seen arguments about set inclusion etc and I'm ok with either NO sets OR All sets w/disabled 5th line. the proc is the issue and generally inflates the TTK as well as the calculations causing lag. But that's a different post.
Skill is gained through practice repetition and training. The new players will get better with support.

Demonwolff · May 22

moo_2021 wrote: »

Being a forever noob, my trick is to build max resist, health and health-scaled healing, then figure out how to do damage from there. It slows down the whole game to an acceptable level.

This is my favorite take so far, People oft forget that we all started somewhere, and we all have to learn new things so we are all forever noobs.

Finding a way to manage how the game works for you by slowing the game down is awesome. Cudos!

tsaescishoeshiner · May 22

I personally think a broader range of skill levels is not only more fun, but important for PvP's health. Although it is also good to retain high skill players.

I remember when more casual players were more likely to join zergs in Cyrodiil, and it made it easier for anyone to find a victory here and there. Even if you can't beat that Grand Overlord, you can learn and maybe get there one day.

When only the highest-skill players PvP, that prevents players from jumping in and learning, and makes it pretty unpleasant and narrows the build meta. I respect high-skilled PvP players, but it's not always the most fun to build and play how you have to at that level.

For highly competitive PvP, that's what group queue BG, Cyro groups, and dueling are for.

With Night Market so populated and bringing players back to the game, hopefully the upcoming midsized PvP zone, veterancy, and Vengeance updates bring all types of players to PvP.

Kilthor69 · May 22

Post like the OP just bother me. You complain that nobody is in PVP, then when players want to try out/play PVP you complain they are noobs. Weren't you a noob at one time. It is the only way to learn and get better

Xarc · May 23

Kilthor69 wrote: »

Post like the OP just bother me. You complain that nobody is in PVP, then when players want to try out/play PVP you complain they are noobs. Weren't you a noob at one time. It is the only way to learn and get better

I never just stood in front of an ennemy spamming buttons like that, without any move or selfheal.

That's what they're doing.
That's what I regret.

please read my post before saying my post bother you.
Posts like yours (those who reply without reading) are just a plague on this forum.

Jeremy · May 23

AScarlato wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

I personally feel like damage is just at an all-time high so I no longer do BGs once I'm level 50. Levelling is okay because most characters are a hot mess of random skills and gear, but at 50 I feel like I die in 2 seconds no matter what I have on, so it's not fun like it was years ago.

In regards to things like players not moving, blocking, rolling, or healing I haven't seen that. I have seen players die in half a second while blocking lol. I notice this as I've been healing and some people are mowed down while being spam healed. One CC is all it takes to kill a lot of players at this point.

The damage is higher than when I started before U35, but so are healing and tankiness. These days you wouldn't find anyone walking without several HoT running simultaneously. In fact if you had tried to duel anyone on your level, the duel would probably last until both of you give up because neither can kill each other and it's just wasting costly potions.

Being a forever noob, my trick is to build max resist, health and health-scaled healing, then figure out how to do damage from there. It slows down the whole game to an acceptable level.

Maybe I'll give that a shot, I did used to enjoy my "tank" but lately he isn't lasting as long as he used to since he seems to now lack the healing and sustain.

For battle grounds I wouldn't bother. In my experience, it doesn't matter how defensive you build your character. It's going to fold like wet noodle once they inundate you with a million status effects.