Please skip Warden and Sorc refreshes and rework Nightblade!

Pinktraining

Pure Nightblade is currently in a terrible state in both PvE and PvP. Grim Focus deals too little damage and is too easily dodged, failing to deliver the unstoppable stunning effect of Streak. Shadowy Disguise is extremely resource-intensive and only increases damage dealt to monsters, unlike Netch which provides a general damage buff and can purge.

Magicka Flood only provides 6% resources, while Sorc gains 108 Weapon Damage through Expert Mage, and Warden gains 5% Critical Damage per skill through Advanced Species. This is incredibly unfair to Nightblade!

As this post on the PTS states,
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691932/youve-nerfed-the-worst-class-in-this-pts/p1

Nightblade is at the bottom in both PvE and PvP, the weakest class and in dire need of a rework more than any other! ZOS, please don't waste resources on classes that are already strong; you need to help the weakest class like Nightblade!

Vaqual

As much as I am looking forward to the NB rework, this seems to be an unreasonable request. Someone has to be the worst, might as well be NB for now. The feedback for the masteries was given, beyond that I am not interested in half-baked changes.

AlienatedGoat

DenverRalphy

Pinktraining wrote: »

Nightblade is at the bottom in both PvE and PvP, the weakest class and in dire need of a rework more than any other! ZOS, please don't waste resources on classes that are already strong; you need to help the weakest class like Nightblade!

Necros

Pinktraining

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Nightblade is at the bottom in both PvE and PvP, the weakest class and in dire need of a rework more than any other! ZOS, please don't waste resources on classes that are already strong; you need to help the weakest class like Nightblade!

Necros

The Necromancer was always in better shape than Nightblade, especially after obtaining Masteries in U50, which gave it almost unlimited stamina, completely overwhelming Nightblade.

Pinktraining

Vaqual wrote: »

As much as I am looking forward to the NB rework, this seems to be an unreasonable request. Someone has to be the worst, might as well be NB for now. The feedback for the masteries was given, beyond that I am not interested in half-baked changes.

As mentioned in the link, Nightblade has the lowest burst damage and the weakest lane pressure of all classes. There's absolutely no reason to wait until next year to rework Nightblade.

BardokRedSnow

Pinktraining wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Nightblade is at the bottom in both PvE and PvP, the weakest class and in dire need of a rework more than any other! ZOS, please don't waste resources on classes that are already strong; you need to help the weakest class like Nightblade!

Necros

The Necromancer was always in better shape than Nightblade, especially after obtaining Masteries in U50, which gave it almost unlimited stamina, completely overwhelming Nightblade.

bruh no, necros have been dogwater since like 2021. If anyone deserves a skip to the front its them.

I am not at all biased, ignore the necromancer i leveled fully just before they nerfed it and has been a crafter ever since lol.

Thoriorz

No, thanks, I'm waiting for Sorc...

Pinktraining

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Nightblade is at the bottom in both PvE and PvP, the weakest class and in dire need of a rework more than any other! ZOS, please don't waste resources on classes that are already strong; you need to help the weakest class like Nightblade!

Necros

The Necromancer was always in better shape than Nightblade, especially after obtaining Masteries in U50, which gave it almost unlimited stamina, completely overwhelming Nightblade.

bruh no, necros have been dogwater since like 2021. If anyone deserves a skip to the front its them.

I am not at all biased, ignore the necromancer i leveled fully just before they nerfed it and has been a crafter ever since lol.

No ! Necro have always been one of the best classes in both PvP and PvE.But NB is always the bad in PVP/PVE.
NB needs huge buffs. Easily all its tooltips could be tripled and it would be still be lightyears behind the PVP God Classes like Necro and Arcanist

CatalinaWineMixer2

They need to remove Subclassing and stop the cherry picking. And stop the exploitation and sidelining of everyone else. The only people who should be using Assassination ARE Nightblades. Real ones with 3 Nightblade skill lines.

Pinktraining

Thoriorz wrote: »

No, thanks, I'm waiting for Sorc...

No , Stop discriminating against Nightblade .Sorc is great in PVE /PVP , it doesn't need a rework, it should even needs a nerf. Streak is an unstoppable burst of power, Hardened Ward is the strongest survival skill in the game, not to mention Sorc is the class with the strongest AoE damage in the game.

Pinktraining

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

They need to remove Subclassing and stop the cherry picking. And stop the exploitation and sidelining of everyone else. The only people who should be using Assassination ARE Nightblades. Real ones with 3 Nightblade skill lines.

This is far from enough; the pure Nightblade class has consistently performed the worst in the game. In PvE, nobody plays pure Nightblade anymore, and in PvP, any pure class performs better than pure Nightblade, not to mention subclasses.

The pure Nightblade needs a complete rework and buff to even have a chance to compete with top-tier classes like Dragon Knight and Necromancer.

MasterSpatula

I don't know what game you're playing, but I'd honestly like to try it.

Pinktraining

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I don't know what game you're playing, but I'd honestly like to try it.

Denigrating Nightblade won't help achieve balance, you should know that.

Silaf

Hell no Sorcerer is the class that most of all need a rework.

Pinktraining

Silaf wrote: »

Hell no Sorcerer is the class that most of all need a rework.

There's no clear evidence that Sorc is in poor condition. In fact, quite the opposite; Sorc is A-S tier in both PvE and PvP. You can see people everywhere using heavy attacks to deal considerable area damage, or using their pets to absorb attacks from other players.

Furthermore, Sorc gains 108 Weapon Damage per skill through Expert Mage, while Nightblade's Magicka Flood only grants 6% of maximum resources.

Do you really think that's fair?

LunaFlora

it appears we all believe our favourite class needs their refresh the most

Nemesis7884

Warden is most likely in full swing if not nearly done and the sorc certainly already in planning and conceptional stage so... these things most likely take months to animate so...

CalamityCat

The last thing I want right now is the devs tinkering with nightblades, because I really don't think they want to give us more power or enhance the class. The adjustments to the nightblade class masteries doesn't give me any optimism about their revamp.

I think it's better that the other classes are refreshed first, otherwise they will scream the second a nightblade kills someone in PvP. There will be endless complaints, given that so many PvPers hate us sneaking around assassinating them. I love my two nightblades, but I cannot see a good outcome for them being revamped early. I'm already dreading the warden revamp because I know we'll be lucky to get any improvements past the PvP nerf callers. Maybe once the sorcs are revamped and destroying everything, we might have a chance of being supported

I think the only love for nightblades this year is the Night Market being so well suited to their sneaky ways, and siphoning being rather lovely in big fights where there aren't dedicated healers.

Demonwolff

I main a NB and if you think they are in a bad spot I am not sure what to say. I can name 3 classes that are woefully worse and that's being cynical seeing as DK is probably the ONLY class that ranks higher atm with sorc being close to NB. If any class Needs a Fast pass to rework it is BEYOND a shadow of a doubt Necro.

Pinktraining

Demonwolff wrote: »

I main a NB and if you think they are in a bad spot I am not sure what to say. I can name 3 classes that are woefully worse and that's being cynical seeing as DK is probably the ONLY class that ranks higher atm with sorc being close to NB. If any class Needs a Fast pass to rework it is BEYOND a shadow of a doubt Necro.

Necro is definitely stronger than NB.
Necro boasts one of the top three delayed burst damage in the game, and can also gain additional damage buffs and resource recovery through Siphon, not to mention the numerous unnamed damage reduction buffs in Necro's class abilities!

nightbringer1993

Check at this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691398/what-class-is-the-most-in-need-of-attention-bug-fixes-and-buffs-right-now/p1

People want necromancer refresh this year because of how destroyed the class is.

If a class has to be refreshed, it is necromancer due to it being unplayable right now as it is too weak and the corpse gameplay is destroyed.

I hope the devs see reason and refresh Necro this year, because otherwise I will be forced to leave the game.

Pinktraining

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Check at this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691398/what-class-is-the-most-in-need-of-attention-bug-fixes-and-buffs-right-now/p1

People want necromancer refresh this year because of how destroyed the class is.

If a class has to be refreshed, it is necromancer due to it being unplayable right now as it is too weak and the corpse gameplay is destroyed.

I hope the devs see reason and refresh Necro this year, because otherwise I will be forced to leave the game.

Necromancer is perfectly fine; it's currently one of the strongest classes in U50. Through Class Mastery, Necromancers are dominating both PvP and PvE with Blastbones, Nothing Wasted, and Pound of Flesh. Stop saying Necromancers are weak; Nightblade has undoubtedly always been the weakest class. Since U35, Nightblade has been constantly nerfed and is practically unplayable. In PvE, you almost never see anyone using Nightblade skills, and in PvP, Nightblade is being driven out of Cyrodiil; nobody wants to use it in PvP.

Class refresh is a hard-won opportunity for Nightblade; don't take it away from them!

Luneca

Pinktraining wrote: »

Demonwolff wrote: »

I main a NB and if you think they are in a bad spot I am not sure what to say. I can name 3 classes that are woefully worse and that's being cynical seeing as DK is probably the ONLY class that ranks higher atm with sorc being close to NB. If any class Needs a Fast pass to rework it is BEYOND a shadow of a doubt Necro.

Necro is definitely stronger than NB.
Necro boasts one of the top three delayed burst damage in the game, and can also gain additional damage buffs and resource recovery through Siphon, not to mention the numerous unnamed damage reduction buffs in Necro's class abilities!

Have you actually played Necro? In this context of "delayed burst" I am guessing you mean PvP.

Have you played necro this patch? If you did, you would know that the corpse mechanic and changes that ZOS did to address server load have made the class the undisputable bottom-most class. Templar is also reaching that level in PvP, but at least it doesn't have a corpse mechanic.

You know, every time I talk about necromancer it's impossible to not mention templar because both neromancer and templar have healing skill lines with purge and similar buffs that have simply lost relevancy outside of group play. Purge not being needed actually makes the class irrelevant, even for tanking purposes

Want to talk about damage reduction? There's a CP star that reduces damage so much it makes necro's class abilities redundant, if you even want to slot them since most aren't even usable or impactful without a corpse.

Then delayed burst. Really, what's that? Blastbones? The skill that doesn't work properly in lag, has the same skill blackout issue (unsable except on mostly flat or flat planes) as most of Arcanists' skills, and gets reduced by major and minor evasion?

There's a reason why no one sees necromancers in PvP much. The other classes we don't see much: templar and arcanist, also have their reasons.

But this isn't the PTS section and unless ZOS asks for my opinion on balance I'm not going to type out 20 pages on those three classes, 8 pages of them would belong to necromancer alone.

Even in the context of tanking in PvP, I would never run necro over DK, warden, NB, arcanist, even templar. it just would never happen. But maybe you know more than I do and know a super-secret build with that special sauce under a loaded cheese pizza.

nightbringer1993

Pinktraining wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Check at this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691398/what-class-is-the-most-in-need-of-attention-bug-fixes-and-buffs-right-now/p1

People want necromancer refresh this year because of how destroyed the class is.

If a class has to be refreshed, it is necromancer due to it being unplayable right now as it is too weak and the corpse gameplay is destroyed.

I hope the devs see reason and refresh Necro this year, because otherwise I will be forced to leave the game.

Necromancer is perfectly fine; it's currently one of the strongest classes in U50. Through Class Mastery, Necromancers are dominating both PvP and PvE with Blastbones, Nothing Wasted, and Pound of Flesh. Stop saying Necromancers are weak; Nightblade has undoubtedly always been the weakest class. Since U35, Nightblade has been constantly nerfed and is practically unplayable. In PvE, you almost never see anyone using Nightblade skills, and in PvP, Nightblade is being driven out of Cyrodiil; nobody wants to use it in PvP.

Class refresh is a hard-won opportunity for Nightblade; don't take it away from them!

[snip] I showed you a link of what players truly want, and we keep on mentioning that necro is in most need of help and needs to be refreshed this year. And templar was mentioned above, and I know what templar felt in U35 when jab got changed.

When necro got nerfed, I went nightblade and I was destroying people with it, just needed to debuff the player, throw my ulti to stun and proc the monster set, and then just needed to use merciless resolve and spamable and job done. And sublassing made things worst. Assassination, animal companion and storm calling, and the players were being destroyed. So much that many left the game, and cyro went empty. And the last DK refresh didn't help either, and made things even worst.

Necro's only burst was stalking blastbone, a skill the devs took away from us two years ago. Some were still using the animate blastbone skill despite it being expensive as hell, but last year the corpse limitation destroyed that skill.

And you still think nightblade is the worst class? Necro is the worst class right now, and the worst thing about it is that it is a PAID class, people are paying and they are not getting anything in return but loss and depression.
[edited for baiting]

Pinktraining

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Check at this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691398/what-class-is-the-most-in-need-of-attention-bug-fixes-and-buffs-right-now/p1

People want necromancer refresh this year because of how destroyed the class is.

If a class has to be refreshed, it is necromancer due to it being unplayable right now as it is too weak and the corpse gameplay is destroyed.

I hope the devs see reason and refresh Necro this year, because otherwise I will be forced to leave the game.

Necromancer is perfectly fine; it's currently one of the strongest classes in U50. Through Class Mastery, Necromancers are dominating both PvP and PvE with Blastbones, Nothing Wasted, and Pound of Flesh. Stop saying Necromancers are weak; Nightblade has undoubtedly always been the weakest class. Since U35, Nightblade has been constantly nerfed and is practically unplayable. In PvE, you almost never see anyone using Nightblade skills, and in PvP, Nightblade is being driven out of Cyrodiil; nobody wants to use it in PvP.

Class refresh is a hard-won opportunity for Nightblade; don't take it away from them!

[snip] I showed you a link of what players truly want, and we keep on mentioning that necro is in most need of help and needs to be refreshed this year. And templar was mentioned above, and I know what templar felt in U35 when jab got changed.

When necro got nerfed, I went nightblade and I was destroying people with it, just needed to debuff the player, throw my ulti to stun and proc the monster set, and then just needed to use merciless resolve and spamable and job done. And sublassing made things worst. Assassination, animal companion and storm calling, and the players were being destroyed. So much that many left the game, and cyro went empty. And the last DK refresh didn't help either, and made things even worst.

Necro's only burst was stalking blastbone, a skill the devs took away from us two years ago. Some were still using the animate blastbone skill despite it being expensive as hell, but last year the corpse limitation destroyed that skill.

And you still think nightblade is the worst class? Necro is the worst class right now, and the worst thing about it is that it is a PAID class, people are paying and they are not getting anything in return but loss and depression.
[edited for baiting]

Go play Necromancer on the PTS and you'll see how good it really is.

Nightblade has always been subject to too many unnecessary restrictions and is undoubtedly the weakest class.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691932/youve-nerfed-the-worst-class-in-this-pts/p1
The reasons why Necromancer is better than Nightblade have been well explained; please study it carefully.

Al_Ex_Andre

Unfortuntely refresh were decided upon which class looks like the most popular, either to the devs or the community, but yeah, OP is certainly right Nightblades probably need a refresh asap..along Necros and Templars.

It's refreshing to read a new voice on the forums, that all disagree with, but who has seemingly true backups for her claims.

tomofhyrule

Al_Ex_Andre wrote: »

Unfortuntely refresh were decided upon which class looks like the most popular, either to the devs or the community, but yeah, OP is certainly right Nightblades probably need a refresh asap..along Necros and Templars.

The refreshes were clearly done based on how much work classes needed and their current stance. Anyone who is trying to say that some classes 'deserve' it more is not looking at a holistic picture (and I can't help but notice everyone arguing "[X] Class should be earlier!" also surprisingly mains that Class.. hmmm...).

DK was chosen as the first one since the DK is a very simple Class - there's no special mechanics that DKs need to worry about, it's essentially the best starter class that people should be able to pick up and go with. It also has three well-defined themes for its lines and the Class skills could just be reshuffled a bit to get each line to be able to do all three roles, and there really wasn't that much that needed to be redone. As such, DK would be a perfect proof-of-concept since they could focus on making it a template for other Classes instead of having to spend a lot of time trying to solve problems while they were trying to get a baseline.

Warden was second because it proved the first major challenge: how to take a Class with role-defined lines and shuffle it into something with Skill Line-based concepts. Again though, Warden really doesn't have any special mechanics that it needs to sort through beyond one single skill that involves a permanent pet. But the big focus there would be the fact that skills need to be decently modified to make the Green Balance line get some damage capability and Animal Companions get some support (Winter's did have a lot already done to make it have damage capability already).

With the fact that they're starting on pet logic, the next obvious class to move to is the class that's all about pets. Most of Sorc's rework is probably going to go into getting the pets figured out, but then they'll need to deal with a lot of its imbalance in the PvP arena and the fact that some of its skill lines are kinda useless. However, the lines aren't super strictly delineated by role

As for the later ones, Templars have one skill with a corpse mechanic so that's something they'll have to work on there. Templars also are one of the basegame Classes with a strict healing line that needs to be broken up. Nightblades are kind of in the same boat where they have one strict damage line that's so OP that it's essentially required on every build, along with two other lines that are practically unused. There will need to be a lot of fiddling to get that to work. NB also has the issue that most of its damage is single-target while more and more encounters are desiring of cleave, so that's another area that will have to get some attention.

And then of course is the Class that needs the most attention hands down. However, by the time they get to Necromancer, they'll have already figured out the pet logic from Sorcs and maybe even started to touch on the corpse mechanic from Templar. The entire Class almost needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to deemphasize the role-based system and get it to work well (which it currently doesn't), along with dealing with things like Grave Lord's Sacrifice, which pretty well nobody likes. As such, that's a massive undertaking. Finally, they need to give the same treatment to Arcanist, but at least that one doesn't feel obscenely clunky to use, but it does need a lot of work to split the lines.

It's fully logical why they chose the order they did, and has nothing to do with "my favorite Class is first and the Class I hate is last." They are building on each other in this order, and the later ones will need more work than the earlier ones because of how many unique mechanics/features they involve and how much would need to be rebuilt from scratch.
I get that it's not fun to have to wait for your main to get touched, but the "scrap everything and do my Class NOW!" idea would only result in that Class only getting less than a month of work and end up being a thrown-together disaster while all the other Classes get to become amazing. I have to wonder why so many people hate their main Classes so much that the want the devs to do a rushed hack job on their main Class instead of giving it the time it needs.

SundarahFr3akinrican

I'm a nightblade and would love this, however, its crazy that templar didnt even show up in this first year, behind warden, a once DLC class.

I feel templar has been the one of the most neglected classes, next to necro

Pinktraining

Demanding that Nightblade be refreshed first is perfectly reasonable, as Nightblade is the weakest class, with all three lines being poor and offering fewer bonuses compared to other similar abilities. For example, Magicka Flood only provides 6% resources, while Sorc gains 108 Weapon Damage through Expert Mage, and Warden gains 5% Critical Damage per skill through Advanced Species.

Not to mention in random groups, you'll see a lot of players using pets(Bear and Bird) and HA, but you'll never see anyone using Nightblade to gain a damage buff through stealth. Even the Necromancer is used more often than Nightblade; Colo and Resurrection are everywhere.

nightbringer1993

I can still destroy people with a nightblade but necromancers can’t.

Read the PTS, people are extremely disappointed from the Necro masteries. Melavolent does not even target players, merciless resolve does crazy amounts of damage and nightblade have more buff than Necro.

Go play Necro and check! I am a want to remain Necro main who is about to leave the game because of all of the nerfs. And I can tell you that nightblade is doing far better than Necro.

Necro has no proper execution skill, NB does.

Necro has no proper stun skills, NB does.

Necro has no proper burst damage as blastbone got nerfed. NB can mix cloak, ulti and merciless resolve to destroy people.

Necro’s heal give us debuff like minor defile where nb can heal much more. And our ghost got nerfed five years ago.

Those class masteries are bad as hell, and people complained and then the devs told us that the refresh was needed to have those masteries optimized, which means that the class will remain unplayable up until winter 2027. And once again this is a PAID class!