Skill-Based Combat is Back: Why the Night Market is the Ultimate "Mistake Check" for solo players

heimdall14_9

Note: I used an AI collaborator to help me organize my thoughts and structure this post

For years, the veteran community has been vocal about the lack of meaningful challenge in the open world. Since the removal of the original Veteran Craglorn difficulty and the shift to One Tamriel, much of the game's non-instanced content has become something you can breeze through without a second thought. The Night Market finally changes that, and it’s exactly what the game needs.

The Return of the "Skill Check"
The Night Market isn't just "harder"—it’s mechanically demanding. We have spent years asking for content where:

Mistakes Matter: If you miss a block, fail to dodge-roll a heavy, or mess up your positioning, you actually die.

Tactics Over Power: It isn’t just about having the highest DPS; it’s about using skill-based fighting tactics to survive something that can easily kill you if you slip up.

Engagement: You can't just "heavy attack" your way through while half-asleep. You have to be present and active.

Bridging the Gap
While I understand the frustration from more casual players, we have to recognize that the vast majority of ESO is designed to be accessible to everyone. The veteran community needs a place where their builds and their years of practice actually feel necessary.

The Night Market feels like a nod to the old-school difficulty where the world felt dangerous. It provides a sense of accomplishment that has been missing from the "overland" experience for a decade. If you want the rewards and the glory of the Market, you should have to earn it through skill.

The "Hard Question": What is a Solo Player?
We also need to have a real conversation about what it means to be a "solo player" in ESO.

A lot of people claim they want to play solo, but they seem unable to progress through challenging content without the safety net of a group or low-difficulty tuning. If you can only complete content when the mechanics are stripped away, are you really a "solo player," or are you just playing a multiplayer game on "story mode"?

It’s time to reevaluate the definition. A true solo player should be defined by their ability to master their class and the game's mechanics—blocking, dodging, and interrupting—on their own merit. The Night Market isn't "anti-solo"; it’s a test for those who claim to play solo to see if they actually have the skill to back it up. We shouldn't nerf the challenge just because some people realize they aren't as self-sufficient as they thought.

Jammy420

Hear hear. I am very much looking forward to playing this more once I have the new Diablo content done

duagloth

Night market is not the new VMA. Your reading too far into it,its designed as group content not a challenge for soloists.
Craglorn was an adventure zone,also meant for groups. If you desire to challenge yourself without a group,this isnt the game for it.

Syldras

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

The "Hard Question": What is a Solo Player?
We also need to have a real conversation about what it means to be a "solo player" in ESO.

A solo player is a person who plays this game solo, no matter if it's soloing vet dungeons, story-based questing, decorating houses or picking flowers. Obviously, it says nothing about combat skills.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

A true solo player

Are there also "false solo players"?

DenverRalphy

This is probably the best "Git Gud" post I've seen on this forum in a long time. And without actually saying it.

Malyore

I was surprised that my IA build was taking as much rapid damage as it was, and that my Zerith tank, whl can handle just about any world boss, was dying in just a few seconds to trash mobs.

The difficulty is definitely higher on this content than I was expecting. While it was a little overwhelming at first just because I didn't have time today to actually sit down and truly interact with all of the nightmarket, I will say it's nice to actually feel a sense of danger without artificially nerfing my character. This feels like something I can work towards for the next couple of weeks to further develop myself, my character, plus my roleplaying and lore exposure.

heimdall14_9

duagloth wrote: »

Night market is not the new VMA. Your reading too far into it,its designed as group content not a challenge for soloists.
Craglorn was an adventure zone,also meant for groups. If you desire to challenge yourself without a group,this isnt the game for it.

i never said it was for solos or groups i just said this will be that true heart check to as if your a solo playing or a real soloist real fast and with 85% of the negative about the NIM being its to hard solo i think my point is showing itself running along side a group solo needing help really doesnt make you a solo player just someone who doesnt want to group but needs help

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Found a simple solution to Night Market.

Brought my PVP Ice Warden to it and then made sense.

IS NOT CONTENT FOR PVE BUILDS, BUT PVP BUILDS.

Need max resistance, max penetration, all the self protection & self healing possible.

magnus01

walking into the "new" zone and getting clapped buy 10 trash mobs with 300k hp each ground spam and stun lock is not what id call hard content but more along the lines of waste my time content.
Im glad you enjoy it but this is not challenging its just over powered garbage.
Soloing world bosses in DLC zones is hard but rewarding for me.
soloing vet dung is hard but rewarding for me
having Zero chance at killing trash mobs is just plain mockery.
world event work because we are all guided to the same point at the same time

this a pure make a trial team or don't do the content.

and we can't even quest shear with this GROUP content.
Its poorly made and badly balanced and NPC don't respawn in trials that's why they work this is just a slug fest for trash rewards almost no one wants

rewards players that have already done trials and have trial gear with TRIAL gear that they don't want and a house with some trinkets is not compelling game play it's fluff filler content that disrespects peoples time and our money.

newnamtab

Please allow me to weigh in, as one of those whining casuals.

1. I do not begrudge you (super veteran hard mode players) some tough content. You should have that.
2. That being said, this Night Market is marketed as being for every one. Veteran Hard Mode is NOT for every one.
3. Night Market absolutely should be a group content, but scattered groups of casual players don't very well for group content.
4. If you have 11 super maxed mates, then you're set. If you're a casual player, you can't participate because the level is simply too high for 12 casual players. An option for "super max veteran hard mode " would solve a lot, as all us casuals wouldn't interfere with hard moders, and we would still feel like we belong.
5. I truely belive Night Market would be perfect for you guys, if it was just instanced for your group(s), and then some throttled down instance for us peasants.
6. ALL THIS RANTING being said, I think this game lacks a flatter learning curve. Once you get to 50 CP 160, you have to get good, and there's not really a natural progression from there.. Just start "getting gud". And I, for one, don't learn very well from being killed instantly, with a combat review saying "35000 damage! Try avoiding damage from monsters"

Sorry if I whined too much, but I honestly don't mean it as criticism on you.
I would LOVE to be as good as you guys.. It's just really hard to get from mediocre to "Whatever next level is".
We casuals sort of hit a certain level, and can't really progress from there. Because you are right. Having the right build and setup doesn't account for much after level 1000. You need to learn some skills that the game itself, doesnt teach you.

You have a good day, and hopefully a happy time with Night Market.

frogthroat

Good points. My thoughts mirror this exactly, except the "hard question".

Why is this a "hard question"? - a solo player is a player who does not play in a group. That's it, end of description. They can be questers, overland players, solo arena players, solo PVP players, or even end game soloers who play group content solo. Talking about "true solo players" is such weird gatekeeping.

It's simple. Group content is not meant to be soloed. If you choose to solo it, you're on your own. I don't complain in group content when I go there solo. I just git gud. That's the name of the game. But a person who just likes the lore, quests alone and decorates their house is as much a solo player as me. We just have different interests. If you want to differentiate between casual questers and end game soloers, call the latter group "end game soloers", for example.

Night Market is group content. Nothing prevents you from entering there alone, but unless you like punishment, you're going to have a bad time. Same as other group content. Nothing stops you from going to vDSR HM solo, but you're not going to have great time there. Not even all dungeons are soloable. Some are, others aren't. Takes a certain level of pain enjoyment to find out which ones can be and which ones can't be soloed. Anyway, I will be soloing it but I will also be going there with a group. Seems to be fun either way. But that's for me.

heimdall14_9

It isn’t gatekeeping to define terms accurately; it’s a matter of distinguishing participation from mastery. When players use the "solo" label to demand that high-level content be tuned down, they are ignoring the mechanical gap between simply being alone and being self-contained to face whatever come at them in content they are doing rather it be housing, fishing, questing , picking flowers , pvp, IA, dungeons, arena's and now NM , especially when the content wasnt made as solo play

you wouldn't say someone soloed a keep only because he wasn't grouped up with the other 3 or more players there now would you ? how about they all playing alone but together they all have the right to say they soloed that keep ? NO on both as they did nothing by themselves but now 1 play goes and takes a keep you say they soloed it because them and only them did it

frogthroat wrote: »

Good points. My thoughts mirror this exactly, except the "hard question".

Why is this a "hard question"? - a solo player is a player who does not play in a group. That's it, end of description. They can be questers, overland players, solo arena players, solo PVP players, or even end game soloers who play group content solo. Talking about "true solo players" is such weird gatekeeping.

It's simple. Group content is not meant to be soloed. If you choose to solo it, you're on your own. I don't complain in group content when I go there solo. I just git gud. That's the name of the game. But a person who just likes the lore, quests alone and decorates their house is as much a solo player as me. We just have different interests. If you want to differentiate between casual questers and end game soloers, call the latter group "end game soloers", for example.

Night Market is group content. Nothing prevents you from entering there alone, but unless you like punishment, you're going to have a bad time. Same as other group content. Nothing stops you from going to vDSR HM solo, but you're not going to have great time there. Not even all dungeons are soloable. Some are, others aren't. Takes a certain level of pain enjoyment to find out which ones can be and which ones can't be soloed. Anyway, I will be soloing it but I will also be going there with a group. Seems to be fun either way. But that's for me.

frogthroat

You can't just say something isn't gatekeeping and then start gatekeeping. Of course people who play solo can say they are solo players and still request that some difficult content is toned down. I may not agree with all the demands, and usually don't, but I am not asking them to return their solo cards. Same way as those who do more casual content can of course complain if the casual content is too difficult, no matter how easy you think it is.

For example, there's an on-going discussion about nN-C. For me, that is not an issue. But I see it is an issue for many pugs and I can estimate the toughness. And that dungeon is not comparable to other dungeons on normal difficulty. The casual players are absolutely 100% in the right for asking the dungeon to be toned down on normal difficulty.

If you want to distinguish between different types of solo players, add qualifiers. Don't gatekeep. Like I mentioned, I would call myself an end game soloer if I need to show some difference between people who quest alone and people who solo vet DLC dungeons. But usually I don't add qualifiers because I don't have the need to show I am "better" than more casual players.

But if we move the goalposts from trioing a keep back to Night Market, if you go there solo, fight trash mobs and bosses, regardless of what other people do, sure, you are a solo player. Even if someone joins your fight, or if you occasionally join someone else's fight.

Where the line could be muddied is if you exclusively follow a group, never engage anything alone, but never group... if you are really, really hell-bent in gatekeeping, those players, I suppose, could be said not to be soloers. I don't care enough to do that, but I suppose in that case you could gatekeep. Oh, sorry, you didn't like the word gatekeeping. Let's say you could... portguard in that case.

heimdall14_9

frogthroat wrote: »

You can't just say something isn't gatekeeping and then start gatekeeping. Of course people who play solo can say they are solo players and still request that some difficult content is toned down. I may not agree with all the demands, and usually don't, but I am not asking them to return their solo cards. Same way as those who do more casual content can of course complain if the casual content is too difficult, no matter how easy you think it is.

For example, there's an on-going discussion about nN-C. For me, that is not an issue. But I see it is an issue for many pugs and I can estimate the toughness. And that dungeon is not comparable to other dungeons on normal difficulty. The casual players are absolutely 100% in the right for asking the dungeon to be toned down on normal difficulty.

If you want to distinguish between different types of solo players, add qualifiers. Don't gatekeep. Like I mentioned, I would call myself an end game soloer if I need to show some difference between people who quest alone and people who solo vet DLC dungeons. But usually I don't add qualifiers because I don't have the need to show I am "better" than more casual players.

But if we move the goalposts from trioing a keep back to Night Market, if you go there solo, fight trash mobs and bosses, regardless of what other people do, sure, you are a solo player. Even if someone joins your fight, or if you occasionally join someone else's fight.

Where the line could be muddied is if you exclusively follow a group, never engage anything alone, but never group... if you are really, really hell-bent in gatekeeping, those players, I suppose, could be said not to be soloers. I don't care enough to do that, but I suppose in that case you could gatekeep. Oh, sorry, you didn't like the word gatekeeping. Let's say you could... portguard in that case.

i just think its dishonest to know you are not set up to do something ( solo) , then try to use that factor as a point of your reasoning to ask for change to the thing ... especially when you reach out to some of them and ask what they having problems with 98% will say im dying in my high dps no survivability build again and again and its no fun , hmmm change your build , your not meant for soloing , get good , whats the nice way to tell someone they aint what they think they are when labeling themselves as so giving off the impression they was set-up and prepared to face the challenge alone

Tzirzhalir

So Night market is catered to 5% of players(uh, elitists-cough) while the 95% (normal folk)suffer. What an intriguing idea. I can see why the "seasons" era is nothing more than a cover for maintenance mode and in 5 years from now this game will be down the toilet and will no longer be around. It's not about getting good, it's about having an "event" that caters to all of the community.

heimdall14_9

Tzirzhalir wrote: »

So Night market is catered to 5% of players(uh, elitists-cough) while the 95% (normal folk)suffer. What an intriguing idea. I can see why the "seasons" era is nothing more than a cover for maintenance mode and in 5 years from now this game will be down the toilet and will no longer be around. It's not about getting good, it's about having an "event" that caters to all of the community.

in 10 years this the 1st event for VETERANS think on that number and for 10 of them players has been asking for harder overland and a VET LEVEL playground like old day crag was ..

frogthroat

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

You can't just say something isn't gatekeeping and then start gatekeeping. Of course people who play solo can say they are solo players and still request that some difficult content is toned down. I may not agree with all the demands, and usually don't, but I am not asking them to return their solo cards. Same way as those who do more casual content can of course complain if the casual content is too difficult, no matter how easy you think it is.

For example, there's an on-going discussion about nN-C. For me, that is not an issue. But I see it is an issue for many pugs and I can estimate the toughness. And that dungeon is not comparable to other dungeons on normal difficulty. The casual players are absolutely 100% in the right for asking the dungeon to be toned down on normal difficulty.

If you want to distinguish between different types of solo players, add qualifiers. Don't gatekeep. Like I mentioned, I would call myself an end game soloer if I need to show some difference between people who quest alone and people who solo vet DLC dungeons. But usually I don't add qualifiers because I don't have the need to show I am "better" than more casual players.

But if we move the goalposts from trioing a keep back to Night Market, if you go there solo, fight trash mobs and bosses, regardless of what other people do, sure, you are a solo player. Even if someone joins your fight, or if you occasionally join someone else's fight.

Where the line could be muddied is if you exclusively follow a group, never engage anything alone, but never group... if you are really, really hell-bent in gatekeeping, those players, I suppose, could be said not to be soloers. I don't care enough to do that, but I suppose in that case you could gatekeep. Oh, sorry, you didn't like the word gatekeeping. Let's say you could... portguard in that case.

i just think its dishonest to know you are not set up to do something ( solo) , then try to use that factor as a point of your reasoning to ask for change to the thing ... especially when you reach out to some of them and ask what they having problems with 98% will say im dying in my high dps no survivability build again and again and its no fun , hmmm change your build , your not meant for soloing , get good , whats the nice way to tell someone they aint what they think they are when labeling themselves as so giving off the impression they was set-up and prepared to face the challenge alone

Yes, this is how you can explain your point of view without gatekeeping. If you mean this, say this. Don't say those players are not "real solo players" like a gatekeeping elitist.

Even better, guide those players. Help them to tweak their build so they can survive solo. Lift up, don't push down.

liliub17_ESO

Tl;Dr: Git Guid

While I appreciate your aided analysis, I disagree on the "solo player" parts and actually find it rather dismissive.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Note: I used an AI collaborator to help me organize my thoughts and structure this post

For years, the veteran community has been vocal about the lack of meaningful challenge in the open world. Since the removal of the original Veteran Craglorn difficulty and the shift to One Tamriel, much of the game's non-instanced content has become something you can breeze through without a second thought. The Night Market finally changes that, and it’s exactly what the game needs.

The Return of the "Skill Check"
The Night Market isn't just "harder"—it’s mechanically demanding. We have spent years asking for content where:

Mistakes Matter: If you miss a block, fail to dodge-roll a heavy, or mess up your positioning, you actually die.

Tactics Over Power: It isn’t just about having the highest DPS; it’s about using skill-based fighting tactics to survive something that can easily kill you if you slip up.

Engagement: You can't just "heavy attack" your way through while half-asleep. You have to be present and active.

Bridging the Gap
While I understand the frustration from more casual players, we have to recognize that the vast majority of ESO is designed to be accessible to everyone. The veteran community needs a place where their builds and their years of practice actually feel necessary.

The Night Market feels like a nod to the old-school difficulty where the world felt dangerous. It provides a sense of accomplishment that has been missing from the "overland" experience for a decade. If you want the rewards and the glory of the Market, you should have to earn it through skill.

The "Hard Question": What is a Solo Player?
We also need to have a real conversation about what it means to be a "solo player" in ESO.

A lot of people claim they want to play solo, but they seem unable to progress through challenging content without the safety net of a group or low-difficulty tuning. If you can only complete content when the mechanics are stripped away, are you really a "solo player," or are you just playing a multiplayer game on "story mode"?

It’s time to reevaluate the definition. A true solo player should be defined by their ability to master their class and the game's mechanics—blocking, dodging, and interrupting—on their own merit. The Night Market isn't "anti-solo"; it’s a test for those who claim to play solo to see if they actually have the skill to back it up. We shouldn't nerf the challenge just because some people realize they aren't as self-sufficient as they thought.

wolfie1.0.

But is it really skill based? I mean if yall really want a challenge why not play a real hardcore mode?

If you die, delete your character. No soul gems, no resurrections, no retrieving gear. Go right to character select screen and delete.

heimdall14_9

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

But is it really skill based? I mean if yall really want a challenge why not play a real hardcore mode?

If you die, delete your character. No soul gems, no resurrections, no retrieving gear. Go right to character select screen and delete.

that be funny and sad as i picked up 6 or 7 players tonight a few 3xs over theyd really hate the game if that was HM lol 😂

frogthroat

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

But is it really skill based? I mean if yall really want a challenge why not play a real hardcore mode?

If you die, delete your character. No soul gems, no resurrections, no retrieving gear. Go right to character select screen and delete.

Pffft... if you don't do a no-hit-run (no CPs, no health attributes, 50 stacks of Thrassian, 5 stacks of simmering frenzy) are you even playing this game?

Mayrael

DenverRalphy wrote: »

This is probably the best "Git Gud" post I've seen on this forum in a long time. And without actually saying it.

... and I love it!

Personally, I’d rather spend 3 hours a day on this event than 10 minutes mindlessly clicking through tasks that do nothing but waste your time. Here at least I actually have fun fighting or being clever! For me, this event is a solid 10/10.

frogthroat

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

You can't just say something isn't gatekeeping and then start gatekeeping. Of course people who play solo can say they are solo players and still request that some difficult content is toned down. I may not agree with all the demands, and usually don't, but I am not asking them to return their solo cards. Same way as those who do more casual content can of course complain if the casual content is too difficult, no matter how easy you think it is.

For example, there's an on-going discussion about nN-C. For me, that is not an issue. But I see it is an issue for many pugs and I can estimate the toughness. And that dungeon is not comparable to other dungeons on normal difficulty. The casual players are absolutely 100% in the right for asking the dungeon to be toned down on normal difficulty.

If you want to distinguish between different types of solo players, add qualifiers. Don't gatekeep. Like I mentioned, I would call myself an end game soloer if I need to show some difference between people who quest alone and people who solo vet DLC dungeons. But usually I don't add qualifiers because I don't have the need to show I am "better" than more casual players.

But if we move the goalposts from trioing a keep back to Night Market, if you go there solo, fight trash mobs and bosses, regardless of what other people do, sure, you are a solo player. Even if someone joins your fight, or if you occasionally join someone else's fight.

Where the line could be muddied is if you exclusively follow a group, never engage anything alone, but never group... if you are really, really hell-bent in gatekeeping, those players, I suppose, could be said not to be soloers. I don't care enough to do that, but I suppose in that case you could gatekeep. Oh, sorry, you didn't like the word gatekeeping. Let's say you could... portguard in that case.

i just think its dishonest to know you are not set up to do something ( solo) , then try to use that factor as a point of your reasoning to ask for change to the thing ... especially when you reach out to some of them and ask what they having problems with 98% will say im dying in my high dps no survivability build again and again and its no fun , hmmm change your build , your not meant for soloing , get good , whats the nice way to tell someone they aint what they think they are when labeling themselves as so giving off the impression they was set-up and prepared to face the challenge alone

Also, don't get me wrong. Everything else you have said I wholeheartedly agree. You were spot on. My only disagreement is when we start to rule out other solo players when they don't play exactly like we want them to play. And in light of this rewording, if you would have said this in the beginning instead of the "real solo players" stuff, I would have agreed with the entire post.

SerafinaWaterstar

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Tzirzhalir wrote: »

So Night market is catered to 5% of players(uh, elitists-cough) while the 95% (normal folk)suffer. What an intriguing idea. I can see why the "seasons" era is nothing more than a cover for maintenance mode and in 5 years from now this game will be down the toilet and will no longer be around. It's not about getting good, it's about having an "event" that caters to all of the community.

in 10 years this the 1st event for VETERANS think on that number and for 10 of them players has been asking for harder overland and a VET LEVEL playground like old day crag was ..

I’m what would be considered a VETERAN player and personally I disagree with you (not just because you used AI 🙄 which means it is poorly written). Your ‘arguments’ come across as elitist and unfair to the vast majority of players in this game. And speak for yourself, not on behalf of others.

The majority of players in this game are not VETERANS, and so should not be excluded from main content. The game normally has different levels, so all can play. The Night Market does not.

heimdall14_9

frogthroat wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

You can't just say something isn't gatekeeping and then start gatekeeping. Of course people who play solo can say they are solo players and still request that some difficult content is toned down. I may not agree with all the demands, and usually don't, but I am not asking them to return their solo cards. Same way as those who do more casual content can of course complain if the casual content is too difficult, no matter how easy you think it is.

For example, there's an on-going discussion about nN-C. For me, that is not an issue. But I see it is an issue for many pugs and I can estimate the toughness. And that dungeon is not comparable to other dungeons on normal difficulty. The casual players are absolutely 100% in the right for asking the dungeon to be toned down on normal difficulty.

If you want to distinguish between different types of solo players, add qualifiers. Don't gatekeep. Like I mentioned, I would call myself an end game soloer if I need to show some difference between people who quest alone and people who solo vet DLC dungeons. But usually I don't add qualifiers because I don't have the need to show I am "better" than more casual players.

But if we move the goalposts from trioing a keep back to Night Market, if you go there solo, fight trash mobs and bosses, regardless of what other people do, sure, you are a solo player. Even if someone joins your fight, or if you occasionally join someone else's fight.

Where the line could be muddied is if you exclusively follow a group, never engage anything alone, but never group... if you are really, really hell-bent in gatekeeping, those players, I suppose, could be said not to be soloers. I don't care enough to do that, but I suppose in that case you could gatekeep. Oh, sorry, you didn't like the word gatekeeping. Let's say you could... portguard in that case.

i just think its dishonest to know you are not set up to do something ( solo) , then try to use that factor as a point of your reasoning to ask for change to the thing ... especially when you reach out to some of them and ask what they having problems with 98% will say im dying in my high dps no survivability build again and again and its no fun , hmmm change your build , your not meant for soloing , get good , whats the nice way to tell someone they aint what they think they are when labeling themselves as so giving off the impression they was set-up and prepared to face the challenge alone

Also, don't get me wrong. Everything else you have said I wholeheartedly agree. You were spot on. My only disagreement is when we start to rule out other solo players when they don't play exactly like we want them to play. And in light of this rewording, if you would have said this in the beginning instead of the "real solo players" stuff, I would have agreed with the entire post.

i just think its disingenuous to call yourself a solo play if you know you are not set up to solo whatever comes your way especially using the title to justify that something cant be done that others have no issue doing

Bernz007

People shocked by the hard content...it's not like they didn't warn you all:

CP5

Tzirzhalir wrote: »

So Night market is catered to 5% of players(uh, elitists-cough) while the 95% (normal folk)suffer. What an intriguing idea. I can see why the "seasons" era is nothing more than a cover for maintenance mode and in 5 years from now this game will be down the toilet and will no longer be around. It's not about getting good, it's about having an "event" that caters to all of the community.

I just want to chime in and point out how, short sighted, that jab is. Just because people enjoy the gameplay of the game, are practiced enough to do veteran difficulty content regularly, doesn't mean they're this cabal of toxic and horrible people that want to ruin things for you. This content being difficult isn't a personal attack against people who enjoy casual content, the tier of which dominates the vast majority of the game as every single overland zone caters to this group, it's to give people who enjoy higher difficulty content something else to enjoy. It is explicitly stated to be designed for groups in the announcement post, and to me it felt more like a combat theme park, a veteran difficulty public dungeon featuring a collection of recognizable bosses with some extra chaos thrown in. I adore that, because for players like me the only alternative to this content is to re-run the same dungeons and trials over and over again, content I've done to death, and having content of a similar caliber to engage with is refreshing, rather than being forced to just stay in my corner.

No event will cater to all of the community, ever, housing event's don't cater to everyone, pvp event's don't cater to everyone, new player onboarding event's don't cater to everyone, so why must the zone that was explicitly stated to be designed for groups cater to players who only know overland questing, and story final bosses who are defeated with the synergy key? This games combat goes well beyond that, and it is refreshing to have content that respects that potential, rather than just being more content designed to be steam rolled.

frogthroat

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

You can't just say something isn't gatekeeping and then start gatekeeping. Of course people who play solo can say they are solo players and still request that some difficult content is toned down. I may not agree with all the demands, and usually don't, but I am not asking them to return their solo cards. Same way as those who do more casual content can of course complain if the casual content is too difficult, no matter how easy you think it is.

For example, there's an on-going discussion about nN-C. For me, that is not an issue. But I see it is an issue for many pugs and I can estimate the toughness. And that dungeon is not comparable to other dungeons on normal difficulty. The casual players are absolutely 100% in the right for asking the dungeon to be toned down on normal difficulty.

If you want to distinguish between different types of solo players, add qualifiers. Don't gatekeep. Like I mentioned, I would call myself an end game soloer if I need to show some difference between people who quest alone and people who solo vet DLC dungeons. But usually I don't add qualifiers because I don't have the need to show I am "better" than more casual players.

But if we move the goalposts from trioing a keep back to Night Market, if you go there solo, fight trash mobs and bosses, regardless of what other people do, sure, you are a solo player. Even if someone joins your fight, or if you occasionally join someone else's fight.

Where the line could be muddied is if you exclusively follow a group, never engage anything alone, but never group... if you are really, really hell-bent in gatekeeping, those players, I suppose, could be said not to be soloers. I don't care enough to do that, but I suppose in that case you could gatekeep. Oh, sorry, you didn't like the word gatekeeping. Let's say you could... portguard in that case.

i just think its dishonest to know you are not set up to do something ( solo) , then try to use that factor as a point of your reasoning to ask for change to the thing ... especially when you reach out to some of them and ask what they having problems with 98% will say im dying in my high dps no survivability build again and again and its no fun , hmmm change your build , your not meant for soloing , get good , whats the nice way to tell someone they aint what they think they are when labeling themselves as so giving off the impression they was set-up and prepared to face the challenge alone

Also, don't get me wrong. Everything else you have said I wholeheartedly agree. You were spot on. My only disagreement is when we start to rule out other solo players when they don't play exactly like we want them to play. And in light of this rewording, if you would have said this in the beginning instead of the "real solo players" stuff, I would have agreed with the entire post.

i just think its disingenuous to call yourself a solo play if you know you are not set up to solo whatever comes your way especially using the title to justify that something cant be done that others have no issue doing

Yeah, people have different ideas and opinions of it. I, for example, talk about me soloing but usually as a response if it is relevant, but I never, ever consider it as "a title". I don't do it for bragging rights. I do it because I enjoy it. Like... what title? Who is using it as a title? It's not stolen valour like if you would pay a Swashbuckler Supreme carry. It's just a different way of playing.

BardokRedSnow

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

But is it really skill based? I mean if yall really want a challenge why not play a real hardcore mode?

If you die, delete your character. No soul gems, no resurrections, no retrieving gear. Go right to character select screen and delete.

I agree, Night Market needs a difficulty buff, it is entirely too easy still, albeit a step in the right direction. They should add delayed hits like in Elden Ring to punish roll dodgers and make the hits regenerate the boss health like Malenia, Blade of Miquella.

Then maybe we could see a true challenge. And get rid of convenient spawn points and send the player out of the instance entirely, make them run back to the bonfire so to speak. Perma death is too harsh but this should suffice.

AlterBlika

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

A lot of people claim they want to play solo, but they seem unable to progress through challenging content without the safety net of a group or low-difficulty tuning. If you can only complete content when the mechanics are stripped away, are you really a "solo player," or are you just playing a multiplayer game on "story mode"?

This is crazy ngl

Tzirzhalir

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Tzirzhalir wrote: »

So Night market is catered to 5% of players(uh, elitists-cough) while the 95% (normal folk)suffer. What an intriguing idea. I can see why the "seasons" era is nothing more than a cover for maintenance mode and in 5 years from now this game will be down the toilet and will no longer be around. It's not about getting good, it's about having an "event" that caters to all of the community.

in 10 years this the 1st event for VETERANS think on that number and for 10 of them players has been asking for harder overland and a VET LEVEL playground like old day crag was ..

Yes, 95% suffer and 95% will leave and say why am I doing this? To receive cheap rewards and get sucked into FOMO golden pursuits. Looking at this from a third person perspective ZOS are clearly in chaos and have bad leadership and are frantically trying to save a dying horse but during their twitch streams they seem so positive and happy... which is a lie. Everything is fake because they all know the truth, ESO is on it's last legs and ZOS will now hunt down and manipulate new players because they are blind to their ugly truths. You and I Sir Crowley are considered old players who have been around since 2015 and know how this organization operates. I, personally have been flogging this dead horse (ESO) and I have finally realized that it is time to walk away and focus on real life and ignore this blatant manipulation and extortion from this company. The greed tactics are obvious, ESO used to be a beautiful and a fun game where communities supported each other because we felt secure in a structured environment, it's now chaos, the same chaos of a dying system. "SEASONS" is just a word to say we are in maintenance mode and following from maintenance it will go into administration and will end. ESO's death is on every member leading and directing from ZOS, it's on them entirely. After 11 years, having capped CP, having many experiences good and bad in ESO I have unsubscribed and uninstalled. WE THE PEOPLE have the POWER to walk away and to realize we are not going to be "played" by this organization any longer. Without us - your player base - You ZOS will cease to be anything but the real identity of your real life personalities that being living under this motto - we actually despise our player base and go out of our way to be supremely toxic to them by creating content which makes them unhappy. Night Market is an embarrassment as was last years "Solstice" and it will continue going down until it's completely destroyed.