Dear ESO pvp veterans…

Vaqual

I can not have fun playing PvP on a build that doesn't match my characters role play. Of course that often leaves me with a disadvantage, but at least winning feels more rewarding that way. I also have to say that, however broken PvP may currently be, it feels less annoying than the previous year with almost non-stop Sorc domination.

Realistically, the onus is really on the Devs here. If their choices uncouple the RP from the PvP gameplay, that is just bad design. It would be nice if players would bring variety into PvP, but I do not have high expectations. Many players have a surprisingly bad grasp of the combat balancing to begin with, and of course they have no clue what is fun or fair. And many just don't feel the need for fair play with the anonymity the internet provides. The only actual issue with this is that tryhard cope has had an impact on balancing decisions. But, as we all know, getting a bombing, dueling or ganking montage in a 10 year old video game for 23 YouTube viewers is where the fun lies. This is clearly far more important than all this RPG nonsense.

The silly thing about this topic is, that many factors would be easily fixable through purely numerical changes. Also, having Critical Resistance as a PvP-exclusive stat is extremely weak and outdated design. If it can not be reasonably sourced to keep up with Crit Damage builds, it is just a needless problem that ends up propping a select few gear and build options. Just make Crit Damage harder to source, take some HP off vet trial bosses and get rid of the Crit Resistance stat altogether. Or go the other route and reduce opportunity cost for those stats (and maybe give it a PvE purpose) to give other options a better chance. It just doesn't serve a purpose to have a selection of 500 knives for a gun fight.

Whatever the future brings, I'd rather quit the game than play the current™ cringe slop.

heimdall14_9

Vaqual wrote: »

I can not have fun playing PvP on a build that doesn't match my characters role play. Of course that often leaves me with a disadvantage, but at least winning feels more rewarding that way. I also have to say that, however broken PvP may currently be, it feels less annoying than the previous year with almost non-stop Sorc domination.

Realistically, the onus is really on the Devs here. If their choices uncouple the RP from the PvP gameplay, that is just bad design. It would be nice if players would bring variety into PvP, but I do not have high expectations. Many players have a surprisingly bad grasp of the combat balancing to begin with, and of course they have no clue what is fun or fair. And many just don't feel the need for fair play with the anonymity the internet provides. The only actual issue with this is that tryhard cope has had an impact on balancing decisions. But, as we all know, getting a bombing, dueling or ganking montage in a 10 year old video game for 23 YouTube viewers is where the fun lies. This is clearly far more important than all this RPG nonsense.

The silly thing about this topic is, that many factors would be easily fixable through purely numerical changes. Also, having Critical Resistance as a PvP-exclusive stat is extremely weak and outdated design. If it can not be reasonably sourced to keep up with Crit Damage builds, it is just a needless problem that ends up propping a select few gear and build options. Just make Crit Damage harder to source, take some HP off vet trial bosses and get rid of the Crit Resistance stat altogether. Or go the other route and reduce opportunity cost for those stats (and maybe give it a PvE purpose) to give other options a better chance. It just doesn't serve a purpose to have a selection of 500 knives for a gun fight.

Whatever the future brings, I'd rather quit the game than play the current™ cringe slop.

SORC meta wasnt all this bad really as you might of had 5-8 GOOD sorcs but you still had DKs WARDENS , NB , TEMP , that kept the fights fun

this META all you got is the same builds using the same skill's no matter the class as their all SUB-CLASSED the same , making for boring fights that end up being nothing but an numbers game over coming something simply due to NUMBERS not skill takes the FUN OUT of doing something day after day for a lot of players that want to feel like their build and skill are meaningful , something missing in an META where everyone is the SAME

Ugrak

Vaqual wrote: »

The silly thing about this topic is, that many factors would be easily fixable through purely numerical changes. Also, having Critical Resistance as a PvP-exclusive stat is extremely weak and outdated design. If it can not be reasonably sourced to keep up with Crit Damage builds, it is just a needless problem that ends up propping a select few gear and build options. Just make Crit Damage harder to source, take some HP off vet trial bosses and get rid of the Crit Resistance stat altogether. Or go the other route and reduce opportunity cost for those stats (and maybe give it a PvE purpose) to give other options a better chance. It just doesn't serve a purpose to have a selection of 500 knives for a gun fight.

Why even have separate PVE and PVP maths in the first place? I think that was their first mistake, and the better way to go about it instead seems like just to start with PVP as the place to balance all player power. Then construct the PVE fights around whatever that ends up as. This way it becomes one game instead of two.

Instead what the game apparently did was build the PVE game, and then added layers on layers of crazy duct tape through things like battle spirit to make PVP sort of work. To be fair I suspect one of the reasons might have been as a workaround to even out players with different levels or something, but I feel levels are also an outdated design. Just a time sink pretending to be progression that I'm sure could be replaced with something else, and it also complicates the task of balancing a PVPVE game of this scale.

Wereswan

Xarc wrote: »

You can't just politely ask people to give up skills and playstyles when they're going to have to face people who won't. It's not fair, so it's impossible.

This right here is the answer. There was a point in Overwatch's history where there was a tank comp meta (four tanks plus two healers desperately trying to keep up.) Nobody enjoyed it and everyone would've preferred to play a more sensible team comp—but if you did, you lost to the team that didn't.

Human nature means only ZOS can fix this one.

Oblivion_Protocol

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

so COMPETTITIVE that EMPEORS run from an 1v1 to their 6 friends lmao so GOOD AND COMPETITIVE that the TOP PLAYERS cant fight alone THAT NOT BEING COMPTITIVED THAT BEING COWARDLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mistake my words. I didn’t say that “competitive” means engaging in balanced 1v1 fights where everyone shakes hands after. I said that it means “trying to win”. Top players become top players by taking advantages. You say “cowardly” like there’s some kind of honor code in this video game, and people are going to go against group-based PvP to seek out duels. I assure you, this is not the case and it never will be, not on a wide scale, anyway.

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone miss the point so hard on these forums.

As I previously stated, if you’re -still- having fun that using the meta, and you haven’t gotten bored of that yet, and you like being OP or whatever, then rock on mate. I am not coming for your precious build or trying to force it from you.

My post is aimed at those people who ARE bored, and who ARE tired of this, and I’m saying there ARE other options to run than the meta. I’m giving a shoutout that since ZOS aren’t changing things, we as a community CAN make a difference by spreading that same attitude around, and encouraging our guild members / guild mates to try something unique instead of a copy paste ball group set up.

You do not have to run that same cheese to combat it. The answer to beating an optimised set up isn’t to just run the same and ‘get gud’ and the answer to ball groups isn’t just more ball groups;
You’d be surprised how many discord servers I’m in where people in this same head space are of the mentality; “Bro I’m so sick of ball groups ruining the game, yea bro let’s get 5 of us in rush of agony and ruin it some more because that’s the ONLY thing we can do about it”

I’m personally not posting from a “I’m sick of losing” angle at all; I do fine right now.
I’m posting from an angle of seeing every single pvp meta since release and experiencing it in great depth, and actually caring that this particular one is driving players away more than any has before; most specifically the rush of agony / charm spam in cross healed ball groups, that not only lags out the game but kills variety.

If literally anyone is defending that particular garbage as fair and enjoyable action (on either side of the action) that’s good for the life of the game, I really am speechless lol

I’ve also seen a lot of PvP metas. Maybe not all of them, but a solid amount. And at every point, every single of them was “killing the game and driving players away”. Literally every change to PvP brings out the doom and gloom crowd who swear up and down that this game will die a miserable death because PvP isn’t fun. Any day now. It’s coming. Brace yourselves. They’ll sunset this game and we’ll have told you so.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but ESO PvP isn’t going anywhere any time soon, certainly not because a vocal subset of the game’s population is disgruntled that they keep seeing and getting killed by the same things.

I see new faces in Cyro every day; and most of them stick around for a while. Meta or no meta, PvP will keep rolling along, and those of us who enjoy it will continue to do so.

heimdall14_9

@Oblivion_Protocol

You mistake my words. I didn’t say that “competitive” means engaging in balanced 1v1 fights where everyone shakes hands after. I said that it means “trying to win”. Top players become top players by taking advantages. You say “cowardly” like there’s some kind of honor code in this video game, and people are going to go against group-based PvP to seek out duels. I assure you, this is not the case and it never will be, not on a wide scale, anyway.


if am not mistaken WINNING means DEFENDING an keep trying to be taken by another player/s not RUNNING out the side door once inter FD opens up / running up to tower jump off and RUNNING to next keep over, all while 1 player follows you ( THE EMP ) trying to get an fight since they found you coming out the side door in your escape from defending NOT just an KEEP but PART OF EMP BUFFS ( HIS BUFFS RUNNING FROM SAVING ) you know the things that matter if your GOAL is to WIN !!! If you thought i was talking about dueling off in middle of nowhere nope im talking about running when another is taken points away from you just because you dont have back up so many PVP vets and even EMPEROR"S do just that , sadly.But watch-out you run into same player with back-up because they going to be the one being the biggest try hard god slaying player out the whole group , its quite funny and in this dulll meta about the only FUN i get out of ESO pvp . WHOS going to RUN today 😂 its actually been my STREAM title more then once

PS: the EMP messaged me back saying he was only an bomber not set for 1v1 fights and when asked if they'd be willing to switch up into an 1v1 build ( few hours later when things was dead and they had all keeps agin so no worry of loosing anything) they still said NO . BUT HE WAS OUT 7v1ing the lot that was outnumbered 4 to 1 COMPEITIVE !!!!! LMAO

ToddIngram

ZOS needs to just try limiting heal stacking and adjust a few of the most out of balance sets and see where things play then.

It's not up to us to change our behavior. It's up to zos to maintain their game in an enjoyable state.

Oblivion_Protocol

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

if am not mistaken WINNING means DEFENDING an keep trying to be taken by another player/s not RUNNING out the side door once inter FD opens up / running up to tower jump off and RUNNING to next keep over, all while 1 player follows you ( THE EMP ) trying to get an fight since they found you coming out the side door in your escape from defending NOT just an KEEP but PART OF EMP BUFFS ( HIS BUFFS RUNNING FROM SAVING ) you know the things that matter if your GOAL is to WIN !!! If you thought i was talking about dueling off in middle of nowhere nope im talking about running when another is taken points away from you just because you dont have back up so many PVP vets and even EMPEROR"S do just that , sadly.But watch-out you run into same player with back-up because they going to be the one being the biggest try hard god slaying player out the whole group , its quite funny and in this dulll meta about the only FUN i get out of ESO pvp . WHOS going to RUN today 😂 its actually been my STREAM title more then once

PS: the EMP messaged me back saying he was only an bomber not set for 1v1 fights and when asked if they'd be willing to switch up into an 1v1 build ( few hours later when things was dead and they had all keeps agin so no worry of loosing anything) they still said NO . BUT HE WAS OUT 7v1ing the lot that was outnumbered 4 to 1 COMPEITIVE !!!!! LMAO

Winning means not getting slapped around when a zerg comes to take your keep because you’re fighting outnumbered. Yes, I could spend all my time trying to 1vX in a keep about to flip. But it’s not going to stop the flip from happening. Better to go set up defenses in the next keep, or wait for help to take back the keep you lost. If the points are what matter in your estimation, then who wants to fight where they aren’t going to get them?

Also, why would you expect someone to swap to a 1v1 build in Cyro? It’s group-based PvP. You want to challenge the EMP to a fair fight? Duel him in a PvE zone.

I’ll never understand people who complain about getting attacked by multiple people in a mode that encourages grouping up and working together.

heimdall14_9

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

if am not mistaken WINNING means DEFENDING an keep trying to be taken by another player/s not RUNNING out the side door once inter FD opens up / running up to tower jump off and RUNNING to next keep over, all while 1 player follows you ( THE EMP ) trying to get an fight since they found you coming out the side door in your escape from defending NOT just an KEEP but PART OF EMP BUFFS ( HIS BUFFS RUNNING FROM SAVING ) you know the things that matter if your GOAL is to WIN !!! If you thought i was talking about dueling off in middle of nowhere nope im talking about running when another is taken points away from you just because you dont have back up so many PVP vets and even EMPEROR"S do just that , sadly.But watch-out you run into same player with back-up because they going to be the one being the biggest try hard god slaying player out the whole group , its quite funny and in this dulll meta about the only FUN i get out of ESO pvp . WHOS going to RUN today 😂 its actually been my STREAM title more then once

PS: the EMP messaged me back saying he was only an bomber not set for 1v1 fights and when asked if they'd be willing to switch up into an 1v1 build ( few hours later when things was dead and they had all keeps agin so no worry of loosing anything) they still said NO . BUT HE WAS OUT 7v1ing the lot that was outnumbered 4 to 1 COMPEITIVE !!!!! LMAO

Winning means not getting slapped around when a zerg comes to take your keep because you’re fighting outnumbered. Yes, I could spend all my time trying to 1vX in a keep about to flip. But it’s not going to stop the flip from happening. Better to go set up defenses in the next keep, or wait for help to take back the keep you lost. If the points are what matter in your estimation, then who wants to fight where they aren’t going to get them?

Also, why would you expect someone to swap to a 1v1 build in Cyro? It’s group-based PvP. You want to challenge the EMP to a fair fight? Duel him in a PvE zone.

I’ll never understand people who complain about getting attacked by multiple people in a mode that encourages grouping up and working together.

you say your an PVP VET ? then how do you NOT know that the EMPERORS buffs DO NOT APPLY in PVE duels .......and THAT AN BOMBER EMPs BEST TARGET IS ZERGS (if you find 4 , 5 if you add me as an zerg lol 😂 ) AS HE IS 100% SET FOR 1VX , and you can get back to next keep faster by dying trying then RUNNING on foot ( and with it only being an small scale group of 4 and 1 solo ( ME) TRYING would been more COMPEITIVE then just letting it go .. I KNOW AS AN 19X EMP ID NEVER RAN AWAY WITHOUT TRYING SOMETHING ( set up tent / kill or be killed , rez and reevaluate THAT outcome ( if i killed 3 out of the 5 iD try again for sure as ads can help pick off the others if played right ) ( if id just died and know back up was coming at ALL i might walk away from it but most likely me being me nope id try something else like pulling them apart at flags or try to get to case upstairs , AS IM NOT BIG ON RUNNING FROM AN FIGHT ...EVEN WHEN OUTNUMBERED !!!!!!!!!! NOT ONCE HAVE I COMPLAIN about getting ATTCACKED more so the opposite BECAUSE my complaint is that TOP PLAYERS RUN FROM AN FIGHT but lets not sidetrack the OP thats about BROKEN GEAR SETS AND SKILLS being used in PVP that US as an WHOLE need to LOOK at OURSELFS because DEV TEAM WONT and these items are making PVP dull and unenjoyable to play in any manner competitive or not , running or fighting , pulling or lag

Xarc

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

if am not mistaken WINNING means DEFENDING an keep trying to be taken by another player/s not RUNNING out the side door once inter FD opens up / running up to tower jump off and RUNNING to next keep over, all while 1 player follows you ( THE EMP ) trying to get an fight since they found you coming out the side door in your escape from defending NOT just an KEEP but PART OF EMP BUFFS ( HIS BUFFS RUNNING FROM SAVING ) you know the things that matter if your GOAL is to WIN !!! If you thought i was talking about dueling off in middle of nowhere nope im talking about running when another is taken points away from you just because you dont have back up so many PVP vets and even EMPEROR"S do just that , sadly.But watch-out you run into same player with back-up because they going to be the one being the biggest try hard god slaying player out the whole group , its quite funny and in this dulll meta about the only FUN i get out of ESO pvp . WHOS going to RUN today 😂 its actually been my STREAM title more then once

PS: the EMP messaged me back saying he was only an bomber not set for 1v1 fights and when asked if they'd be willing to switch up into an 1v1 build ( few hours later when things was dead and they had all keeps agin so no worry of loosing anything) they still said NO . BUT HE WAS OUT 7v1ing the lot that was outnumbered 4 to 1 COMPEITIVE !!!!! LMAO

Winning means not getting slapped around when a zerg comes to take your keep because you’re fighting outnumbered. Yes, I could spend all my time trying to 1vX in a keep about to flip. But it’s not going to stop the flip from happening. Better to go set up defenses in the next keep, or wait for help to take back the keep you lost. If the points are what matter in your estimation, then who wants to fight where they aren’t going to get them?

Also, why would you expect someone to swap to a 1v1 build in Cyro? It’s group-based PvP. You want to challenge the EMP to a fair fight? Duel him in a PvE zone.

I’ll never understand people who complain about getting attacked by multiple people in a mode that encourages grouping up and working together.

you say your an PVP VET ? then how do you NOT know that the EMPERORS buffs DO NOT APPLY in PVE duels .......and THAT AN BOMBER EMPs BEST TARGET IS ZERGS (if you find 4 , 5 if you add me as an zerg lol 😂 ) AS HE IS 100% SET FOR 1VX , and you can get back to next keep faster by dying trying then RUNNING on foot ( and with it only being an small scale group of 4 and 1 solo ( ME) TRYING would been more COMPEITIVE then just letting it go .. I KNOW AS AN 19X EMP ID NEVER RAN AWAY WITHOUT TRYING SOMETHING ( set up tent / kill or be killed , rez and reevaluate THAT outcome ( if i killed 3 out of the 5 iD try again for sure as ads can help pick off the others if played right ) ( if id just died and know back up was coming at ALL i might walk away from it but most likely me being me nope id try something else like pulling them apart at flags or try to get to case upstairs , AS IM NOT BIG ON RUNNING FROM AN FIGHT ...EVEN WHEN OUTNUMBERED !!!!!!!!!! NOT ONCE HAVE I COMPLAIN about getting ATTCACKED more so the opposite BECAUSE my complaint is that TOP PLAYERS RUN FROM AN FIGHT but lets not sidetrack the OP thats about BROKEN GEAR SETS AND SKILLS being used in PVP that US as an WHOLE need to LOOK at OURSELFS because DEV TEAM WONT and these items are making PVP dull and unenjoyable to play in any manner competitive or not , running or fighting , pulling or lag

JustLovely

ToddIngram wrote: »

ZOS needs to just try limiting heal stacking and adjust a few of the most out of balance sets and see where things play then.

It's not up to us to change our behavior. It's up to zos to maintain their game in an enjoyable state.

This is the only view to have on this topic. Anything else is a distraction.

Oblivion_Protocol

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

you say your an PVP VET ? then how do you NOT know that the EMPERORS buffs DO NOT APPLY in PVE duels .......and THAT AN BOMBER EMPs BEST TARGET IS ZERGS (if you find 4 , 5 if you add me as an zerg lol 😂 ) AS HE IS 100% SET FOR 1VX , and you can get back to next keep faster by dying trying then RUNNING on foot ( and with it only being an small scale group of 4 and 1 solo ( ME) TRYING would been more COMPEITIVE then just letting it go .. I KNOW AS AN 19X EMP ID NEVER RAN AWAY WITHOUT TRYING SOMETHING ( set up tent / kill or be killed , rez and reevaluate THAT outcome ( if i killed 3 out of the 5 iD try again for sure as ads can help pick off the others if played right ) ( if id just died and know back up was coming at ALL i might walk away from it but most likely me being me nope id try something else like pulling them apart at flags or try to get to case upstairs , AS IM NOT BIG ON RUNNING FROM AN FIGHT ...EVEN WHEN OUTNUMBERED !!!!!!!!!! NOT ONCE HAVE I COMPLAIN about getting ATTCACKED more so the opposite BECAUSE my complaint is that TOP PLAYERS RUN FROM AN FIGHT but lets not sidetrack the OP thats about BROKEN GEAR SETS AND SKILLS being used in PVP that US as an WHOLE need to LOOK at OURSELFS because DEV TEAM WONT and these items are making PVP dull and unenjoyable to play in any manner competitive or not , running or fighting , pulling or lag

Okay, I don’t have the energy to read through another unpunctuated, caps lock-humping word salad, so I’m mostly going to address your final point. As someone else said, it’s not our job to balance this game. It’s the devs. We’re going to use what works, what wins, and what feels good. Because that’s how most of us have fun.

As for your point about players running from fights, maybe people need to use LOS to heal. Maybe they don’t feel like porting from a far away keep. Maybe they want help from the group. Complaining about it on the forum isn’t going to change that. Either get faster so you can catch them or accept that you won the engagement and move on 😂

olsborg

Agreed with OP, wholeheartedly.
I wish they would revert the whole subclass thing, but seems like they wont or cant. It might be the one thing that broke the game in the end, certainly looks that way when looking at my friendlist, and even I am hardly playing anymore.

ThoraxtheDark

Honestly not trying to detract from the points you've made but, what do you honestly expect from this post.

Take a break , find a more meaningful pvp experience . Its not that deep. Everyone knows what the meta is. If anything you are just giving people the steps to build for more "annoying " builds by laying it out for them step by step.

Must be bait

reazea

It's up to ZOS to create systems that are balanced and fair. It's not up to the players to do anything other than maximize their effectiveness.

Until ZOS limits heal stacking and makes some minor adjustments to some sets abused in PvP ZOS can't credibly claim they're even trying to fix performance and increase participation in Cyrodiil.

Vengeance is a total distraction and an excuse to not work on the game we purchased and have been playing for more than a decade now.

Thumbless_Bot

reazea wrote: »

It's up to ZOS to create systems that are balanced and fair. It's not up to the players to do anything other than maximize their effectiveness.

Until ZOS limits heal stacking and makes some minor adjustments to some sets abused in PvP ZOS can't credibly claim they're even trying to fix performance and increase participation in Cyrodiil.

Vengeance is a total distraction and an excuse to not work on the game we purchased and have been playing for more than a decade now.

This is the right answer in a vacuum. However, zos does not address imbalance timely and sometimes not at all and....AND... they introduce imbalance to sell chapters.

How long did it take for them to adjust ward? The ridiculous mythic from Solstice is still there. Just an example of each...

Oblivion_Protocol

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

This is the right answer in a vacuum. However, zos does not address imbalance timely and sometimes not at all and....AND... they introduce imbalance to sell chapters.

How long did it take for them to adjust ward? The ridiculous mythic from Solstice is still there. Just an example of each...

The timeliness, or lack thereof, of ZOS addressing changes doesn’t change the fact that it is their responsibility to balance the game by creating balanced systems and items, not ours by purposefully avoiding what works.

Look at it this way. If my friends and I order food for delivery, and we don’t get it after two hours, is it my responsibility to make that food for everyone in my kitchen?

reazea

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

It's up to ZOS to create systems that are balanced and fair. It's not up to the players to do anything other than maximize their effectiveness.

Until ZOS limits heal stacking and makes some minor adjustments to some sets abused in PvP ZOS can't credibly claim they're even trying to fix performance and increase participation in Cyrodiil.

Vengeance is a total distraction and an excuse to not work on the game we purchased and have been playing for more than a decade now.

This is the right answer in a vacuum. However, zos does not address imbalance timely and sometimes not at all and....AND... they introduce imbalance to sell chapters.

How long did it take for them to adjust ward? The ridiculous mythic from Solstice is still there. Just an example of each...

I'm only expecting ZOS do what they've been claiming they're doing for the last decade. My expectations on this topic are not unreasonable in any way, shape, or form. I'm just expecting ZOS to do what they've committed themselves to doing over and over again.

Thumbless_Bot

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

This is the right answer in a vacuum. However, zos does not address imbalance timely and sometimes not at all and....AND... they introduce imbalance to sell chapters.

How long did it take for them to adjust ward? The ridiculous mythic from Solstice is still there. Just an example of each...

The timeliness, or lack thereof, of ZOS addressing changes doesn’t change the fact that it is their responsibility to balance the game by creating balanced systems and items, not ours by purposefully avoiding what works.

Look at it this way. If my friends and I order food for delivery, and we don’t get it after two hours, is it my responsibility to make that food for everyone in my kitchen?

Agree. But they dont. Not only that, they one, dont care, or two, more insidious, they create imbalance to make money. Thats all I am saying.

Long story long, it's never gonna happen...

Thumbless_Bot

reazea wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

It's up to ZOS to create systems that are balanced and fair. It's not up to the players to do anything other than maximize their effectiveness.

Until ZOS limits heal stacking and makes some minor adjustments to some sets abused in PvP ZOS can't credibly claim they're even trying to fix performance and increase participation in Cyrodiil.

Vengeance is a total distraction and an excuse to not work on the game we purchased and have been playing for more than a decade now.

This is the right answer in a vacuum. However, zos does not address imbalance timely and sometimes not at all and....AND... they introduce imbalance to sell chapters.

How long did it take for them to adjust ward? The ridiculous mythic from Solstice is still there. Just an example of each...

I'm only expecting ZOS do what they've been claiming they're doing for the last decade. My expectations on this topic are not unreasonable in any way, shape, or form. I'm just expecting ZOS to do what they've committed themselves to doing over and over again.

Me too.

randconfig

Xarc wrote: »

cool story bro

But no one will give that up for you.

Not true. We complained about Dragonknight's wing reflecting all projectiles having zero counterplay for ranged playstyles and eventually the devs listened and removed it. Maybe one day they'll remove the overpowered Warden Charm too.

MorallyBipolar

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

I challenge you, put down the rallying cry, the monomyth, The charm, the rush of agony, the same 3 subclasses that 90% of cyrodil is using for like, and try something new.

Hear me out. We, as the community are the fix here.

I get it - When subclassing was released, we were all excited to be OP, our PVE DPS doubled overnight, we got instant insane PvP builds and felt stronger than emperors…

But it’s getting old now. I don’t think I’ve spoken to a single pvp regular who enjoys the current state of pvp, and ZOS clearly aren’t doing anything about it anytime soon;

The charm spam.
- It’s annoying and overpowered. No other class mastery performs this well. If Procs on healing soul (also overtuned) so can be used both offensively and defensively, to stun entire groups through block and dodge roll… without even slotting a stun. The AOE is also huge. If you use charm and deny how ridiculous this is, you’re in denial. Drop it for a week and I’ll see you back here. No one enjoys this trash.

Rush of agony
- I still have no idea why a set that has the best CC in the game, doesn’t grant CC immunity, and has an explosion attached to it afterwards because why not. It’s even got its own internal cooldown separate to regular CC, which I have to assume is harder to code than just making it obey the rules of normal CC?? It does nothing for pve, and all it does is ruin PvP with that ridiculous interaction. It’s a tool for ball groups to decimate solo / small groups, and large fights are almost always decided by this annoying set, often spammed every 8 seconds in tandem with charm. No one enjoys this.

The same subclasses
- Everyone is using assassination, with a combo of storm calling, animal companions, aedric spear or restoring light. Everyone. They are overtuned and it makes every player an infinite sustaining, speed machine TankHealsDeeps with no counter, no weakness, and everyone just bouncing off each others invincible builds, until you notice some poor soul trying something different in a group fight - and you go and 2 shot them, before getting back to being more survivable than a trials tank. It’s boring. No one likes this.

Monomyth / Rallying / Wretched
- I mean mostly Monomyth. It’s busted OP and it’s why we all use it. But the Same builds are everywhere. When sets like rallying over perform to such a level, build variety is dead.

Ball groups
- I mean where to start… I’ve played in a ball group and actively felt my brain cells melting away with how boring it was, spamming the same few skills around a pull spam every few seconds and causing the game to lag for everyone nearby. I’ve also played against them, and PvP is legit miserable for anyone not in a ball group right now.


My point?

It’s time for US, the player base to take some accountability here. Sure, we can rightfully blame ZOS for such god awful balance and ignoring things flagged on PTS, we can flame them for the current state and hope that they listen, and we can post feedback and tag them… But it’s been months, and all we have is a fleeting hope of this class balance in the near future… But the veterans amongst us know full well that won’t be the fix that pvp needs.

It’s on us, the players, to put down that trash that’s ruining the game, and try something different. Sure it’s nice to win all the time, and i know the ego players are gonna shudder at the thought of not being at their best…. But the alternative is killing the game.

I came from the dark souls community before playing eso from console release, and in that community, the playerbase got together and collectively decided that we weren’t going to all use the same broken OP stuff. We made news and made fun of people who did that. We tried new things and got creative, and as a result, the game lasted years after the developers stopped caring.

I don’t know how long eso has - Hopefully a while because we love this game right? But we currently have a community full of pvpers who know full well what the problems are, yet do nothing about it, in favour of remaining OP.

At the very least, don’t be one of the people complaining about how pvp sucks, before jumping on your rally / null arca / balorghs warden base with assassination and Storm calling.

Rant over, I am mad. I’m not chill. 12 years on eso and here we are, with the worst balance since release, and a playerbase that’s forcing each other into the very meta that is causing the need for vengeance campaign to take over (which most of us don’t want)

tell me what you think.

Nope. It's up to the payee to cater to the payer. Not the other way around.

ZOS needs to listen to and act on the player feedback. They need to at least try limiting heal stacking and there is no excuse for ZOS not to nerf a few sets that are over performing in PvP.