My Perception Of The Pure Class Refresh

rhythmsuji

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JSxedpES_8

Hey all! Happy Holidays & welcome to the chat about the class rework for 2026! Unlike Reddit, I probably don't need a positivity trigger warning here LOL. These forums tend to be far more nuanced and optimistic about the game we love.

Video not required, a quick breakdown of my perspective is that the announcement and semi vague description of their goals for 2026 and class reworks. Is another sign of Zos listening, which them not listening is one of the primary complaints of the community. So that is huge imo, and not just because they said some vague terms like "we hear you" with no plan. But we have seen a couple plans described and promised to be in the works for the near future.
This SHOULD bring back a lot of the power and even more specialty to pure class setups for those who want nothing to do with sub-classing and felt "forced" into using them because of the power disparity.
In the video I do ramble/talk about the overall anger and negativity we have had ramping up, and I acknowledge there are plenty of good reasons to be disappointed or upset. But I also aim to help encourage a clear unbiased mind when experiencing something new which is intended to be a fix or improvement. I have a bad feeling that these VERY requested fixes, might not solve 100% of problems and then be exaggeratedly *** on like some other game implementations which are nuanced.

Many Builds will have to be remade

META's will change
There will still be build/class/skill line hierarchy's as its impossible for there not to be
Skill lines are going to change which will alter some very old setups some are potentially fond of

These are some examples of "negatives" which you can expect and not be caught off guard by as they logically have to occur. And the more we focus on actually potentially malleable factors and give quick constructive feedback on. The more likely it is we can give them data to actually work on and not just make them hate us and ignore us by saying their update is *** or calling them incompetent or something lol.
This is the hope/request. Ideally it reaches a few people beyond those cemented in a permanent negative stance. I can see this being good.
GL HF & be safe during the Holidays!

Radiate77

Great write-up!

And thank you for saying the quiet part out loud…

rhythmsuji wrote: »

…And the more we focus on actually potentially malleable factors and give quick constructive feedback on. The more likely it is we can give them data to actually work on and not just make them hate us and ignore us by saying their update is *** or calling them incompetent or something lol.
This is the hope/request. Ideally it reaches a few people beyond those cemented in a permanent negative stance. I can see this being good.
GL HF & be safe during the Holidays!

Constructive feedback is huge. While there’s never a guarantee that it will be taken into account, if you don’t give strong feedback designed around a concept, rather than trying to redesign it, there is next to no chance that we will get what we want out of it.

ISO_Flow

rhythmsuji wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JSxedpES_8

Hey all! Happy Holidays & welcome to the chat about the class rework for 2026! Unlike Reddit, I probably don't need a positivity trigger warning here LOL. These forums tend to be far more nuanced and optimistic about the game we love.

Video not required, a quick breakdown of my perspective is that the announcement and semi vague description of their goals for 2026 and class reworks. Is another sign of Zos listening, which them not listening is one of the primary complaints of the community. So that is huge imo, and not just because they said some vague terms like "we hear you" with no plan. But we have seen a couple plans described and promised to be in the works for the near future.
This SHOULD bring back a lot of the power and even more specialty to pure class setups for those who want nothing to do with sub-classing and felt "forced" into using them because of the power disparity.
In the video I do ramble/talk about the overall anger and negativity we have had ramping up, and I acknowledge there are plenty of good reasons to be disappointed or upset. But I also aim to help encourage a clear unbiased mind when experiencing something new which is intended to be a fix or improvement. I have a bad feeling that these VERY requested fixes, might not solve 100% of problems and then be exaggeratedly *** on like some other game implementations which are nuanced.

Many Builds will have to be remade

META's will change
There will still be build/class/skill line hierarchy's as its impossible for there not to be
Skill lines are going to change which will alter some very old setups some are potentially fond of

These are some examples of "negatives" which you can expect and not be caught off guard by as they logically have to occur. And the more we focus on actually potentially malleable factors and give quick constructive feedback on. The more likely it is we can give them data to actually work on and not just make them hate us and ignore us by saying their update is *** or calling them incompetent or something lol.
This is the hope/request. Ideally it reaches a few people beyond those cemented in a permanent negative stance. I can see this being good.
GL HF & be safe during the Holidays!

I. LOVE. YOU. hahaha

I am already sorry for the rage this is certainly going to get you, as wrongfully as it will be earned. I appreciate the logical plea to the unreasonable .

Nemesis7884

the main issue remains imo that

A) zos after 10 years still doesnt know where to go with the game
B.) The population is way to diverse and fractured to agree on something - a wise game developer once said you should always listen to players on where the issues are but never on how to fix them
C) zos moves at a snails pace and i just dont think the game has another 2-3 years to address the issues... my gut tells me 2026 will be the do or die year for the game...

Vulkunne

Looks good to me. About as much as expected.

Eliahnus

I’m not looking forward to remake 60 characters…

Cooperharley

While I appreciate them doing this, I feel if they take as long as stated to do it, it’ll worsen balance by quite a bit. They really need to focus in on this stuff because it’s the core of what makes the game that we play what it is. Being more dynamic to player sentiment with this stuff and implementing changes quickly (not over years, but over a few updates) is vital with the health of the game currently in my opinion.

kojou

I wish the direction was less about class skills and more about creating content that requires us to do more than just optimize for DPS.

AScarlato

I can't wait to see what they do with Templar. I love the Divine class fantasy and hope they add some more skills that are well-animated and feel impactful to really sell it like they have with Arcanist.

I prefer pure classes personally since they feel more coherent, aside from a few multi-class characters I have for RP reasons.

AnduinTryggva

My 5 pences on that point:

I do understand the need to readdress the power gap between subclassing bilds and pure class ones.

To be honest: I think subclassig is mostly used by those because they WANT to have the most optimal build with best performance. If ZOS now makes pure class as performing we could have as well spared the whole subclassing part. If pure classes will still lack behind the meta will still require subclassing and pure classes are still not for endgame deployment. So we are turning in circles somehow...

LunaFlora

hey good post.
i watched the video and appreciate your perspective.

nice to see an optimistic and positive view on the Class Refresh and Subclassing.

Destai

Fostering positivity is a noble goal. Personally, I think positivity and "benefit of the doubt" are luxuries that ZOS hasn't really earned. The combat team especially. If the combat team had different leadership, I'd be far more willing to be positive.

It's just been too many years of really bad changes. Let's recount some of those moments - U35, always, right? U46 and U48 most recently. They still haven't undone the Jabs animations, or wholly reversed the PermaGlow that had a 2 year old thread asking for it. Two really big easy wins to drama they themselves created. Or how about when the community requested a stamina morph of Molten Whip. We were told "no", "no further changes were being considered", and then given the current state of the skills.

It seems like ZOS goes ahead with their vision, regardless of our requests on specific details. They may respond to broad-brush requests, but where it's needed most - on specific changes, I don't really see them moving.

On top of that, there's just so many unfinished projects. Now they're embarking on a likely impossible task, at a sour time in the game's history. And doing it piecemeal - despite the obvious logical problems with their approach. It's going to be years for the class rebalance project to be completed, assuming they don't abandon it for the next idea. It feels like an impending disaster for the game, again.

So, yeah, it's hard to be positive.

Look - I want this effort to succeed. I want the classes to feel fun and for there to be balance between them. But I also want to feel like an 11 year old game that's heavily monetized is actually finished and has a clear direction. I want to feel like the people running the game - especially combat leads - can articulate their plans and complete them. We are not there and I am highly skeptical of their ability to get us there.

Because of that all, yes, I will absolutely be more critical of what's proposed. Will I find some enjoyment in the game, sure I'll try, but I'm not going to force myself to be positive if it's just not there.

PathosDante

I don’t want to see a sorcerer breathing fire from their mouth.

I don’t want to see a templar that can spam gravestones.

I don’t want to see a dragonknight running around with flowers, insects, and jellyfish.

“Subclass” breaks Tamriel’s magic and atmosphere.
Elder Scrolls is not that kind of game.

Radiate77

PathosDante wrote: »

I don’t want to see a sorcerer breathing fire from their mouth.

I don’t want to see a templar that can spam gravestones.

I don’t want to see a dragonknight running around with flowers, insects, and jellyfish.

“Subclass” breaks Tamriel’s magic and atmosphere.
Elder Scrolls is not that kind of game.

That’s the thing…

If you’re breathing fire on a “Sorcerer” you’re no longer a Sorcerer, but something else entirely.

When you Subclass, you make entirely new classes, and it would be great if ZOS would take a patch cycle to invent creative Class names for each combination, as it would also help with identifying purposes.

AScarlato

PathosDante wrote: »

I don’t want to see a templar that can spam gravestones.

My priest of Arkay likes doing this.

My point being, I understand you prefer themacticaly cohesive classes - but RP wise people can create characters with backstories that account for cross-classing.

A fantasy sorcerer entertainer who sculps their magic to appear as fire-breathing. A dragonknight inspired by a myth of a Green Dragon.

This all works, and Elder Scrolls has always been a series where characters can train in any number of skills that suits their interests.

lolinternet

PathosDante wrote: »

I don’t want to see a sorcerer breathing fire from their mouth.

I don’t want to see a templar that can spam gravestones.

I don’t want to see a dragonknight running around with flowers, insects, and jellyfish.

“Subclass” breaks Tamriel’s magic and atmosphere.
Elder Scrolls is not that kind of game.

It sounds to me like you don't really want an Elder Scrolls game. Classes the way ZOS came up with them are foreign to Elder Scrolls games. Classes (if they existed at all) were always simply pre-set configurations from a master list of always-available skills that you didn't have to be a class to level up. Subclassing brings ESO somewhat in line with the single-player games. It's great, I highly appreciate it, let the pure-class people return to WoW (or whatever else) and let ZOS fix any remaining balance issues there may be. Moreover, I hope they will unlock us from being absolutely required to have a base class at all. There is no justification for that, it should just be a free mix and match if wanted.

Muizer

rhythmsuji wrote: »

This SHOULD bring back a lot of the power and even more specialty to pure class setups for those who want nothing to do with sub-classing and felt "forced" into using them because of the power disparity

You're saying problems caused by subclassing may be fixed 3+ years from now is reason for optimism? By what standard? Cyrodiil PvP?

Radiate77

lolinternet wrote: »

PathosDante wrote: »

I don’t want to see a sorcerer breathing fire from their mouth.

I don’t want to see a templar that can spam gravestones.

I don’t want to see a dragonknight running around with flowers, insects, and jellyfish.

“Subclass” breaks Tamriel’s magic and atmosphere.
Elder Scrolls is not that kind of game.

It sounds to me like you don't really want an Elder Scrolls game. Classes the way ZOS came up with them are foreign to Elder Scrolls games. Classes (if they existed at all) were always simply pre-set configurations from a master list of always-available skills that you didn't have to be a class to level up. Subclassing brings ESO somewhat in line with the single-player games. It's great, I highly appreciate it, let the pure-class people return to WoW (or whatever else) and let ZOS fix any remaining balance issues there may be. Moreover, I hope they will unlock us from being absolutely required to have a base class at all. There is no justification for that, it should just be a free mix and match if wanted.

I know how unlikely this is, but I would love for our coming Class Reworks, that each be paired with an introduction quest introducing a Master Trainer, similar to the previous games, with each helping you understand what it means to be their class.

Currently I have no intention to make a new character again, short of a new class being released, but if something like this was in the future? I wouldn’t even think twice.

lolinternet

Radiate77 wrote: »

I know how unlikely this is, but I would love for our coming Class Reworks, that each be paired with an introduction quest introducing a Master Trainer, similar to the previous games, with each helping you understand what it means to be their class.

That would be pretty cool. They could also give the classes some "physical" spaces in the world and create a class quest with stages that require you to use the class skills. Right now "class" is just some elaborate thing your character is somehow born with, sometimes mentioned in the odd book (and of course companions also have classes)... and that's it. Class identity isn't just about the game's balance of skills, it's also about representation and lore.

Making these class quests mandatory for leveling subclassing would also be nice, especially for those of us who only play one character and who have been missing out on a lot until subclassing came out. It would promote a sense of appreciation beyond just having another tree of potentially useful skills.

Radiate77

lolinternet wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

I know how unlikely this is, but I would love for our coming Class Reworks, that each be paired with an introduction quest introducing a Master Trainer, similar to the previous games, with each helping you understand what it means to be their class.

That would be pretty cool. They could also give the classes some "physical" spaces in the world and create a class quest with stages that require you to use the class skills. Right now "class" is just some elaborate thing your character is somehow born with, sometimes mentioned in the odd book (and of course companions also have classes)... and that's it. Class identity isn't just about the game's balance of skills, it's also about representation and lore.

Making these class quests mandatory for leveling subclassing would also be nice, especially for those of us who only play one character and who have been missing out on a lot until subclassing came out. It would promote a sense of appreciation beyond just having another tree of potentially useful skills.

That sounds incredible. And to think, this idea took only two of us to evolve this much, imagine what ZOS could do if they put their mind to it.

rhythmsuji

kojou wrote: »

I wish the direction was less about class skills and more about creating content that requires us to do more than just optimize for DPS.

While I don't disagree with this sentiment, this is sadly just what people do. Zos couldn't get people to stop caring greatly about this, if they could they would. A massive chunk of the anger comes from peoples numbers going down, or not being as high as others, or being no match for the numbers of another build in PvP lol.

The response from people hating vengeance where they negate a lot of those variables and actually do introduce pretty damn good balance, people despise it. And they quit or flame the game as long as Zos doesn't "try to fix it"

I too rather them work on getting us more wonderful zones and dungeons to explore, or a compelling story to experience etc. But ironically, thats one of the least loud requests they hear. It's mostly anger about classes and balance or PvP.

rhythmsuji

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

My 5 pences on that point:

I do understand the need to readdress the power gap between subclassing bilds and pure class ones.

To be honest: I think subclassig is mostly used by those because they WANT to have the most optimal build with best performance. If ZOS now makes pure class as performing we could have as well spared the whole subclassing part. If pure classes will still lack behind the meta will still require subclassing and pure classes are still not for endgame deployment. So we are turning in circles somehow...

Depends on who. To me subclassing has just been a fun thing to toy with and personalize setups for fun which works.

But ofc a large chunk of players just google the most optimal build, and then we see an army of beamers because they chased just the numbers. And then complained about no build diversity in the community... ;P

PvP is understandable to need to meta chase, or near meta chase. But with the exception of the most elitist groups, in PvE it's not a requirement. It's a choice, the hardest PvP content does not require the top build. The top builds make the Vet HM trials easier than they are meant to be. It's like choosing to turn on easy mode and then being annoyed that the game is too easy in a single player game.

rhythmsuji

Radiate77 wrote: »

PathosDante wrote: »

I don’t want to see a sorcerer breathing fire from their mouth.

I don’t want to see a templar that can spam gravestones.

I don’t want to see a dragonknight running around with flowers, insects, and jellyfish.

“Subclass” breaks Tamriel’s magic and atmosphere.
Elder Scrolls is not that kind of game.

That’s the thing…

If you’re breathing fire on a “Sorcerer” you’re no longer a Sorcerer, but something else entirely.

When you Subclass, you make entirely new classes, and it would be great if ZOS would take a patch cycle to invent creative Class names for each combination, as it would also help with identifying purposes.

This honestly would be such a simple fix for those who are bothered on a lore or identity front. Because things being locked to current classes technically already was made up by Zos once upon a time, there is no requirement that it had to be that way or needs to stay. BUT it would feel better for those who experience lore on that level, for there to be a better acknowledgement and "graduation" into class blending.

rhythmsuji

Destai wrote: »

Fostering positivity is a noble goal. Personally, I think positivity and "benefit of the doubt" are luxuries that ZOS hasn't really earned. The combat team especially. If the combat team had different leadership, I'd be far more willing to be positive.

It's just been too many years of really bad changes. Let's recount some of those moments - U35, always, right? U46 and U48 most recently. They still haven't undone the Jabs animations, or wholly reversed the PermaGlow that had a 2 year old thread asking for it. Two really big easy wins to drama they themselves created. Or how about when the community requested a stamina morph of Molten Whip. We were told "no", "no further changes were being considered", and then given the current state of the skills.

It seems like ZOS goes ahead with their vision, regardless of our requests on specific details. They may respond to broad-brush requests, but where it's needed most - on specific changes, I don't really seem moving.

On top of that, there's just so many unfinished projects. Now they're embarking on a likely impossible task, at a sour time in the game's history. And doing it piecemeal - despite the obvious logical problems with their approach. It's going to be years for the class rebalance project to be completed, assuming they don't abandon it for the next idea. It feels like an impending disaster for the game, again.

So, yeah, it's hard to be positive.

Look - I want this effort to succeed. I want the classes to feel fun and for there to be balance between them. But I also want to feel like an 11 year old game that's heavily monetized is actually finished and has a clear direction. I want to feel like the people running the game - especially combat leads - can articulate their plans and complete them. We are not there and I am highly skeptical of their ability to get us there.

Because of that all, yes, I will absolutely be more critical of what's proposed. Will I find some enjoyment in the game, sure I'll try, but I'm not going to force myself to be positive if it's just not there.

I simply just am someone who tries to be positive where I can within my benefit, it's not a requirement from others. And I get all of the perspectives or well most of them that I have read, and I even agree with quite a lot.

BUT my end conclusion is a bit different, and how I would act if my conclusion was the same... is different.

When I am more certain of a "lost cause" or level of doom I read, personally I quit that game.

I am positive in the ways which I am not convinced of the same level of doom and gloom and many are, and I do believe some amount of it is very socially pushed and blown out of proportion. There are like truth nuggets of criticism, that are then sometimes turned into critical meteors.

And then there is the Writhing Wall Event, where it was horrible. In so many completely provable ways. It was so blatantly under baked and lazily crafted, horribly tested etc. That the critiques for that I feel were almost entirely valid and true.
Sub-classing, has so many pro's and cons, and SO MUCH subjectivity in how each person experiences it, what they want in their game, what they enjoy about making their character and playing it etc. BUT the community at large, with great help of immediate reactions of some of the largest creators. Would have you believe sub-classing is objectively horrible, worthless, destructive and a mistake. Meanwhile some players like me, enjoy it and make my own builds. Don't feel pressured to meta 100% of the time, and have grown to refuse to play in meta only environments because it doesn't inspire "fun" I believe in video-games like this.

And I have been here (with some breaks between) but since early access in 2014. I have seen so much of this back and forth, true mistakes or blunders by Zos. And then chunks of the community deciding what a blunder is in an objective nature, pushing it very very loudly as a fact with no nuance. And it gets added to the pile of "dead game, bad devs" extreme reactions.

I will know personally when I really do think it's over for me, and thats when I stop caring and stop having fun. And that has not happened yet, but it happened in other games. Like WoW after 15 years. And then I will move on once hope is lost, but ive not seen enough for how I enjoy the game, for my hope and joy to be killed. And a lot of the complaints I see from other creators, don't align with my desires. But they speak as though my desires don't exist. Vengeance is another major can of worms for that... *.* I enjoy balance in PvP. Many don't, thus Vengeance is hated. I would legit like modes where we all have the same setups and you literally just win based off skill. When it comes to competitive integrity and fun in that realm, I actually hate that I one shot people who just didn't know how to put numbers on themselves to stop it before the "competition" started. But if I don't intentionally build myself for it, then ill be getting 1 shot. So PvP is an area where the option is to either follow the trends, or get rekt. And that's the opposite of balance. Make me earn every kill, and earn every death. That would be fun, to me.

rhythmsuji

Muizer wrote: »

rhythmsuji wrote: »

This SHOULD bring back a lot of the power and even more specialty to pure class setups for those who want nothing to do with sub-classing and felt "forced" into using them because of the power disparity

You're saying problems caused by subclassing may be fixed 3+ years from now is reason for optimism? By what standard? Cyrodiil PvP?

Well no, my optimism comes from not being in the camp who needs those changes. But I can still acknowledge how many people want them and hate the sub-classing changes, so I hope they can make them function paralleled and simultaneously valuable.

As far as the timeline, this is the assumption based on improper math guesstimates. BUT, I will say if it truly did take them even into 2 years to get this done, it will have been too late for it to matter much. I don't disagree with you, in your hypothetical. Anyone who wants this change, or needs it to enjoy the game. Will quit by then.

But I wager most of the classes will be done within 2026, due to focused efforts changing. But maybe im wrong, hopefully not.

Make polls, have people show how serious they are. That's what I was talking about with responsibly and professionally making your opinions and needs known. Show them how many people will quit by end of 2026 if pure classes aren't a staple and viable option via polls and posts.

rhythmsuji

Eliahnus wrote: »

I’m not looking forward to remake 60 characters…

And I would be delighted lol. Granted its not 60 for me, thats wild and definitely far above average haha.

But It is the dilemma that each and every change, is going to impact some people positively and some negatively. As someone who likes to make my own builds and enjoys spending hours on refining a single one, more/new options is like a content release for me.

But for others its a chore and an upsetting expense.

What makes the world go round I guess, but there is no way to perfectly please everyone on those fronts.

rhythmsuji

Cooperharley wrote: »

While I appreciate them doing this, I feel if they take as long as stated to do it, it’ll worsen balance by quite a bit. They really need to focus in on this stuff because it’s the core of what makes the game that we play what it is. Being more dynamic to player sentiment with this stuff and implementing changes quickly (not over years, but over a few updates) is vital with the health of the game currently in my opinion.

I am starting to wonder if I missed them actually giving a timeline, did they? I have seen some creators try to speculate based on their testing and discussion phase, and then applying that toward the active project without considering employee focus changes and reasonable deadlines post an announcement.

But did they actually come out and say it will take years to get every pure class refresh out?

If they did, then yeah thats bad and they NEED to put more resources into this.

rhythmsuji

LunaFlora wrote: »

hey good post.
i watched the video and appreciate your perspective.

nice to see an optimistic and positive view on the Class Refresh and Subclassing.

Thank you!

There is definitely a lot more nuance into some of these socially acclaimed "negatives". The main predictive complaint I agree with on the class refresh, is concerns of it not being rolled out quick enough.

I do think they need to make it one of the prime focal points. So I am really hoping they see all of these types of concerns and feedback to gauge the need properly.

BXR_Lonestar

I like what I hear about some of the things that they want to do with the class refresh - generally speaking. I need to see how they EXECUTE the class refresh before I can really judge it. But IMO, the problem is this: When you make a mistake, you fix it. The class refresh is a tacit admission that subclassing in the way that it was done so haphazardly, was a mistake. So fix it.

The absolutely obvious step to fixing the subclassing mistake is to just revert the change. I know why they won't do it - because you then alienate those who actually like the change, but even of those who like the subclassing changes like it because of the absolutely BROKEN builds they can make. SO even they know at a certain level that subclassing is broken.

So don't let the mistake persist. Tell us you need to rethink your implementation of the system and just revert it. And to make up for it, give everyone a free month of ESO + and some free crowns to make up for the situation.

Then if you still want to have the subclassing system, you go back to the drawing board and re-release it in a manner that is less haphazard, more well thought out, and that won't break the game. My suggestion?

When you choose a subclass, you get the abilities but NOT the passives - you are stuck with the passives of your class.

Either that, or you can change like trees for like trees. Meaning I can swap Restoring Light (Templar healing line) for Green Balance (Warden Healing Line), but I can't swap Restoring Light for, say another offensive tree like Assassination. This would also help maintain balance because you can't stack a ton of favorable passives for a specific role in your favor, you are just swapping out like ability trees for another.

IMO, anything less than either of these is simply not going bring things into balance because a buff of pure-class abilities will ultimately lead to a buff to subclassed characters.

Iriidius

lolinternet wrote: »

PathosDante wrote: »

I don’t want to see a sorcerer breathing fire from their mouth.

I don’t want to see a templar that can spam gravestones.

I don’t want to see a dragonknight running around with flowers, insects, and jellyfish.

“Subclass” breaks Tamriel’s magic and atmosphere.
Elder Scrolls is not that kind of game.

It sounds to me like you don't really want an Elder Scrolls game. Classes the way ZOS came up with them are foreign to Elder Scrolls games. Classes (if they existed at all) were always simply pre-set configurations from a master list of always-available skills that you didn't have to be a class to level up. Subclassing brings ESO somewhat in line with the single-player games. It's great, I highly appreciate it, let the pure-class people return to WoW (or whatever else) and let ZOS fix any remaining balance issues there may be. Moreover, I hope they will unlock us from being absolutely required to have a base class at all. There is no justification for that, it should just be a free mix and match if wanted.

Subclassing didnt made game more like Skyrim or removed classes but just disfigured them and ESO combat.

To make it more like Skyrim you would have to remove classes completely and replace them with schools of magic.

In Oblivion you could equip weapons and 1 spell. You can equip weapons and (12) spells in Elder Scrolls Online too.
You consider not being able to use Stormcalling skills as a pure DK with weapons limiting but you could still use lightning staff or scribing skills while in Oblivion you couldnt equip a single firespell beneath your weapons and nothing else.

In Skyrim you could equip either weapons or spells or 1 spell and 1 weapon.
If you have to heal you have to eat 100 apples or unequip weapon to equip healing spell.
When you need other weapons/spells you had to equip them and unequip the ones you had before.

In none of them could you equip 12 skills and 2 sets of weapons simultaneously so how is against Elder Scrolls that you cant mix class skilllines that didnt even existed in other Elder Scrolls?
With access to class skills from every skillline that are stronger than weapon skills weapon based dmg became a minor part of overall dmg.

Radiate77

Iriidius wrote: »

lolinternet wrote: »

PathosDante wrote: »

I don’t want to see a sorcerer breathing fire from their mouth.

I don’t want to see a templar that can spam gravestones.

I don’t want to see a dragonknight running around with flowers, insects, and jellyfish.

“Subclass” breaks Tamriel’s magic and atmosphere.
Elder Scrolls is not that kind of game.

It sounds to me like you don't really want an Elder Scrolls game. Classes the way ZOS came up with them are foreign to Elder Scrolls games. Classes (if they existed at all) were always simply pre-set configurations from a master list of always-available skills that you didn't have to be a class to level up. Subclassing brings ESO somewhat in line with the single-player games. It's great, I highly appreciate it, let the pure-class people return to WoW (or whatever else) and let ZOS fix any remaining balance issues there may be. Moreover, I hope they will unlock us from being absolutely required to have a base class at all. There is no justification for that, it should just be a free mix and match if wanted.

Subclassing didnt made game more like Skyrim or removed classes but just disfigured them and ESO combat.

To make it more like Skyrim you would have to remove classes completely and replace them with schools of magic.

In Oblivion you could equip weapons and 1 spell. You can equip weapons and (12) spells in Elder Scrolls Online too.
You consider not being able to use Stormcalling skills as a pure DK with weapons limiting but you could still use lightning staff or scribing skills while in Oblivion you couldnt equip a single firespell beneath your weapons and nothing else.

In Skyrim you could equip either weapons or spells or 1 spell and 1 weapon.
If you have to heal you have to eat 100 apples or unequip weapon to equip healing spell.
When you need other weapons/spells you had to equip them and unequip the ones you had before.

In none of them could you equip 12 skills and 2 sets of weapons simultaneously so how is against Elder Scrolls that you cant mix class skilllines that didnt even existed in other Elder Scrolls?
With access to class skills from every skillline that are stronger than weapon skills weapon based dmg became a minor part of overall dmg.

Yet, this move is undeniably closer to that vision.