Greyhost and Vengeance

JohnRingo

xylena wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

I also do not think we need 900 people in Cyrodil I would rather have more customization and a solid 360! Currently, vengeance is too limited for me. Feels like im in a loadout FPS game, not MMORPG PVP game.

Sounds like what they have in mind for the new PvP mode they're working on, supposedly like a three way Cyro keep siege battleground with full build options.

There's about the same room for theorycrafting in Vengeance and GH. In Vengeance you only have a few real options. In GH you only have a few real options (but endless worthless garbage setups that give players the illusion of choice, wasting their time and resources on solved puzzles).

Also fully disagree. 10 year Gray Host Vet here and I purposely avoid meta gear. No set armor that I wear is popular or newer than about 7 years old. And definitely no proc or pull sets. Take care to not make assumptions about the average player's armor in Grey Host.

ToddIngram

Lucasl402 wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

All the more reason to not do GH. Nothing like being stalled into a slideshow when the ball groups show up. No thanks.

ZOS is who's decided not to listen to the years of player suggestions to limit heal stacking to create the situation you're complaining about. They could just fix that one thing in Cyrodiil and see where things stand after that.

ZOS could balance and fix most of the issues with Grey Host if they just tried.

Yep, if ZOS just gave some credit to their customers for knowing what they want and responded accordingly ESO would be in a very different place right now.

ToddIngram

xylena wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Greyhost has become the perfect example of ... no meaningful balancing.

FTFY.

Vengeance is their attempt at meaningful balancing. Even if you don't like how they're doing it, still way more of a meaningful attempt than say, jamming in yet another 5pc proc set as a bandaid "fix" for one of the many problems caused by some other 5pc proc set.

Vengeance isn't balancing. It's a template.

ToddIngram

robertlabrie wrote: »

Xylena, the community seems to disagree. Greyhost remains popular. Several mandatory tests haven't forced everyone to like Vengeance. Telling us we're wrong isn't convincing anyone. I opened this thread advocating for both modes as a choice and I'm hoping ZOS sees the need to do so.

Last two nights prime time PC NA have seen all three factions pop locked in Grey Host, and all three factions one bar in vengeance. This is happening when vengeance is giving double XP and a 50 crystal transmute box daily, and more people are still playing Grey Host.

JohnRingo

ToddIngram wrote: »

robertlabrie wrote: »

Xylena, the community seems to disagree. Greyhost remains popular. Several mandatory tests haven't forced everyone to like Vengeance. Telling us we're wrong isn't convincing anyone. I opened this thread advocating for both modes as a choice and I'm hoping ZOS sees the need to do so.

Last two nights prime time PC NA have seen all three factions pop locked in Grey Host, and all three factions one bar in vengeance. This is happening when vengeance is giving double XP and a 50 crystal transmute box daily, and more people are still playing Grey Host.

On PS5 N.A. I have seen no bars in Vengeance since GH returned

ToddIngram

JohnRingo wrote: »

ToddIngram wrote: »

robertlabrie wrote: »

Xylena, the community seems to disagree. Greyhost remains popular. Several mandatory tests haven't forced everyone to like Vengeance. Telling us we're wrong isn't convincing anyone. I opened this thread advocating for both modes as a choice and I'm hoping ZOS sees the need to do so.

Last two nights prime time PC NA have seen all three factions pop locked in Grey Host, and all three factions one bar in vengeance. This is happening when vengeance is giving double XP and a 50 crystal transmute box daily, and more people are still playing Grey Host.

On PS5 N.A. I have seen no bars in Vengeance since GH returned

I think with game boxes the lowest population is displayed differently than on PC. Game boxes will show zero population when the pop is very low, but the lowest population ever displayed on PC is one bar.

I'm not 100% on this of course, but that's the way it looks by reading other posts and seeing screenshots from game boxes.

Major_Toughness

The same thing happens every day on PC EU at prime time.
Vengeance with basically no population, and GH with 50+ queues on all alliances.

reazea

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The same thing happens every day on PC EU at prime time.
Vengeance with basically no population, and GH with 50+ queues on all alliances.

It will be interesting to see the spin on this population discrepancy in the future. There is no way to credibly claim vengeance is popular now, but will ZOS try to make the claim anyway?

Gankform

fix the *** Cap on Grey host, we have to w8 25-30min to play pvp...and the venge stupid test is dead..are u crazy guys or what?

xylena

JohnRingo wrote: »

Take care to not make assumptions about the average player's armor in Grey Host.

Maybe you're one of those gamer gods who can dominate with an off meta build, but an average player in jank armor is just a target. The specifics of their build don't matter. Their human decisions don't matter. They have neither skill nor math on their side. They just die.

Put another way: JohnRingo on an off meta build vs JohnRingo on a top meta build, well practiced on both. JohnRingo on the top meta build will win 100% of the time.

Arrow312

reazea wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The same thing happens every day on PC EU at prime time.
Vengeance with basically no population, and GH with 50+ queues on all alliances.

It will be interesting to see the spin on this population discrepancy in the future. There is no way to credibly claim vengeance is popular now, but will ZOS try to make the claim anyway?

Trust me they will find or make a way that it seems to be that Vengence is popular. Maybe they say the vengence bars werent full but tbf 1 bar vengence = 2 bars GH....or something like that.

RaidingTraiding

xylena wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Greyhost has become the perfect example of ... no meaningful balancing.

FTFY.

Vengeance is their attempt at meaningful balancing. Even if you don't like how they're doing it, still way more of a meaningful attempt than say, jamming in yet another 5pc proc set as a bandaid "fix" for one of the many problems caused by some other 5pc proc set.

Pretty sure it was all about performance testing and not balancing.

MorallyBipolar

reazea wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The same thing happens every day on PC EU at prime time.
Vengeance with basically no population, and GH with 50+ queues on all alliances.

It will be interesting to see the spin on this population discrepancy in the future. There is no way to credibly claim vengeance is popular now, but will ZOS try to make the claim anyway?

Yes, yes, it will be interesting to see if ZOS ever mentions this iteration of vengeance or not.

We can now say with 100% certainty that vengeance is a fail. People won't play it, even when it's the only option.

MorallyBipolar

Arrow312 wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The same thing happens every day on PC EU at prime time.
Vengeance with basically no population, and GH with 50+ queues on all alliances.

It will be interesting to see the spin on this population discrepancy in the future. There is no way to credibly claim vengeance is popular now, but will ZOS try to make the claim anyway?

Trust me they will find or make a way that it seems to be that Vengence is popular. Maybe they say the vengence bars werent full but tbf 1 bar vengence = 2 bars GH....or something like that.

And vengeance never went above two bars for any faction after the first two days of mandated vengeance. Vengeance never got higher than one bar after the second day of mandated vengeance. Meanwhile GH pop locked every day as soon as it came back.

And the argument that vengeance bars represent more people is pure speculation on the part of anyone who's not working on this project for ZOS. The pop caps in Cyrodiil is treated like classified top secret documents....or at least how top secret documents used to be treated in the past anyway.

Nebbles

Grey Host is simply a ball group playground paired with some stupid op builds. All due to a lack of interest and ability to actually make it a somewhat balanced environment. It is the worst balanced PvP in any game I've played. GH will eventually die, no new blood will come into it.

Vengeance still has some way to go. I can't see side by side campaigns work. They will need to make a decision if they want Cyro to be alive in the future. Right now it's a complete joke.

YandereGirlfriend

The emerging line from the die-hard Vengeance crowd can seemingly be translated into, "We see that people still prefer Grey Host so now we definitely need to cancel Grey Host to force those players into Vengeance".

To which I would say: absolutely NOT.

Let the free market of players decide where they want to play. Let them vote with their feet. It is up to Vengeance itself to make itself attractive to players. Only Vengeance can save itself. Coercing players into gameplay that they do not enjoy by deleting the content that they do enjoy is both bad business as well as extraordinarily fraught karma.

Don't yuck someone else's yum. Respect your fellow players and let them enjoy what they enjoy.