Where are Sai Sahan, Lyris, and Abnur Tharn?

Draffut

So Manimarco and the worm cult are back, it seems like the perfect time to reintroduce our old companions. Why weren’t the included in this event as General leading the charge? I would think they would be concerned with Manimarcos return. Not to mention Molag Bal is just ok with Manimarco escaping and using all of his daedra after the previous events and betrayal.

Syldras

Don't worry, they don't miss much.

Dock01

Draffut wrote: »

So Manimarco and the worm cult are back, it seems like the perfect time to reintroduce our old companions. Why weren’t the included in this event as General leading the charge? I would think they would be concerned with Manimarcos return. Not to mention Molag Bal is just ok with Manimarco escaping and using all of his daedra after the previous events and betrayal.

YEPPP exactly

xbluerosesx

the devs kind of forgot like how Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet

This_0ne

I'm sure our old comrades think Mannimarco is too foolish to step on the same rake a second time and try to hand world to Molag Bal again. I'm sure they think even a mudcrab could thwart Mannimarco's latest ridiculous plan. And they wisely decided not to come. I wish I could follow their example and instead, for example, learn how the Jorrvaskr Companions became werewolves, and not all this.

langewapper

well abnur than is probably trying to sell the amulet of kings to manimarco for big money

Syldras

It's all about "fan favorites" now and the base game companions don't appeal in that way, I guess.

tomofhyrule

I’m sure they’re just shacking up with their new girlfriends in Riften.

Isn’t that how we excuse important characters’ absences now?

Monte_Cristo

Sai got his beard stuck in a pencil sharpener (or grindstone, if you want to be more lore friendly instead of a Simpsons reference).
Lyris is trying to get him unstuck, but keeps making it worse.
Abnar is laughing hysterically at this.

ESO_player123

Isn't Abnur Tharn unavailable for, well, story reasons?

Rohamad_Ali

Maybe they'll show up in phase 15 of the paywall event.

Syldras

By chance I came across the official explanation:

“Since we were starting with the original main story and the Worm Cult, we naturally looked at the Five Companions,” says Baker. “However, we’ve featured several of them in various Chapters since the original game. We decided to take a step back from that set of characters and look to some interesting-but-underutilized characters who deserved a little more time in the spotlight.”

Source: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/68079

Obviously having a character show up in 5 different chapters/dlcs still makes them underutilized.

tomofhyrule

Syldras wrote: »

By chance I came across the official explanation:

“Since we were starting with the original main story and the Worm Cult, we naturally looked at the Five Companions,” says Baker. “However, we’ve featured several of them in various Chapters since the original game. We decided to take a step back from that set of characters and look to some interesting-but-underutilized characters who deserved a little more time in the spotlight.”

Source: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/68079

Obviously having a character show up in 5 different chapters/dlcs still makes them underutilized.

...

...

Yes, such incredibly underutilized characters as [checks notes] Razum-dar?

Ugh, this entire year of content, including the story, had about as much love and care put into it as the last two seasons of Game of Thrones.

Syldras

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Yes, such incredibly underutilized characters as [checks notes] Razum-dar?

I just hope the next stories (if there will be more) won't end like the current one, otherwise we already know what to expect when returning to Elsweyr and Morrowind once more.

SneaK

Well cause now we have a guy named Skordo that asks “how’s it going” like a coworker you don’t really like.

ESO_player123

SneaK wrote: »

Well cause now we have a guy named Skordo that asks “how’s it going” like a coworker you don’t really like.

Well. to be fair, Skordo's personality is not that much different from other quests where we encounter him.

metheglyn

Syldras wrote: »

By chance I came across the official explanation:

“Since we were starting with the original main story and the Worm Cult, we naturally looked at the Five Companions,” says Baker. “However, we’ve featured several of them in various Chapters since the original game. We decided to take a step back from that set of characters and look to some interesting-but-underutilized characters who deserved a little more time in the spotlight.”

Source: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/68079

Obviously having a character show up in 5 different chapters/dlcs still makes them underutilized.

They were probably referring to Walks and Azah. I think they know Raz isn't underutilized. Skordo could also be considered in the underutilized category. Really, Raz is the outlier in the group from how much he's shown up.

IsharaMeradin

It would have been hysterical if they had Stuga running from the siege camp and say, "Hey! I've been looking for you! We need to defend this camp!" And one must actually talk to her to trigger the siege camp fight.

It would have gotten old fast, but sure would have been a really good call back.

Syldras

metheglyn wrote: »

They were probably referring to Walks and Azah. I think they know Raz isn't underutilized. Skordo could also be considered in the underutilized category. Really, Raz is the outlier in the group from how much he's shown up.

Walks-in-Ash and Azah were only in the base game (Are they interesting characters, through?), but Skordo showed up in 3 unrelated stories (base game, Orsinium, Dragonhold), Gabrielle twice (base game, Greymoor), Darien twice (base game, Summerset). For comparison: Abnur Tharn showed up in 2 different stories (base game, Elsweyr/Dragonhold), Lyris in 2 (base game, Greymoor/Markarth), Sai in 3 (base game, Dragonhold, and in Markarth only in the epilogue together with Lyris). Is that so much of a difference? I don't think so.

tomofhyrule

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

They were probably referring to Walks and Azah. I think they know Raz isn't underutilized. Skordo could also be considered in the underutilized category. Really, Raz is the outlier in the group from how much he's shown up.

Walks-in-Ash and Azah were only in the base game (Are they interesting characters, through?)

I've actually been really wanting Walks and Holgunn (still missing) to show back up, especially since a bunch of characters from the DC and AD lines kept coming back over and over, and yet the main friends you had in multiple EP lines were just never coming back.

Then again, knowing ZOS they'd probably have just made returning-Holgunn a random drunkard...

The other thing I can't with is just the number of characters who keep coming. back. to. life.

It's honestly exhausting. There's basically no emotional weight to the stories since nothing ever happens. Raz had an option to die at the end of the AD (and magically got better because fan favorite). Verandis died in the DC line (and magically got better because fan favorite). Darien died at the end of the main quest (and magically got better because fan favorite), AND then he came back for the Summerset line to die again (and magically got better because fan favorite). Sai and Lyris both had the option to die at the end of the main quest (and magically got better because fan favorite).

I didn't play the part 2 on PTS, but honestly I'll be shocked if "Somehow, Gabrielle Returned" isn't a thing that'll happen. And even if it doesn't (which will actually be unexpected), I'm sure she'll still pop up later because reasons.

It does make me raise an eyebrow at the number of people who are like "we want the story to move forward!" and also "bring back [character who died] because they're so cool!"

metheglyn

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

They were probably referring to Walks and Azah. I think they know Raz isn't underutilized. Skordo could also be considered in the underutilized category. Really, Raz is the outlier in the group from how much he's shown up.

Walks-in-Ash and Azah were only in the base game (Are they interesting characters, through?), but Skordo showed up in 3 unrelated stories (base game, Orsinium, Dragonhold), Gabrielle twice (base game, Greymoor), Darien twice (base game, Summerset). For comparison: Abnur Tharn showed up in 2 different stories (base game, Elsweyr/Dragonhold), Lyris in 2 (base game, Greymoor/Markarth), Sai in 3 (base game, Dragonhold, and in Markarth only in the epilogue together with Lyris). Is that so much of a difference? I don't think so.

Interesting is subjective, so all I can say is I find Walks interesting, but not Azah. I forgot Skordo was in Dragonhold, so he probably doesn't fit the underutilized category, true. But I still think Raz is the outlier from how often we've seen him. I would consider Gabrielle underutilized, although I wasn't really thinking of her in my first response. I was comparing Walks, Azah, Skordo, and Raz.

But I wouldn't have wanted Abnur, Lyris, and Sai in place of the others. We don't really know Abnur's fate, and to have him show up suddenly would have been jarring and likely not explained very well (going by how they explained Lyris and Sai being around even if they were the ones the player chose to sacrifice). And I thought Lyris and Sai had their own plans.

Syldras

metheglyn wrote: »

Interesting is subjective, so all I can say is I find Walks interesting, but not Azah.

I don't care for Azah, and think Walks is fine, but still, for me personally, she isn't exactly a character whom I had wished to learn more about. I'd have been fine with that, sure, but there are characters in the base game that I found much more interesting.

Then again, of course, how much did we learn about them anyway in the new story... It's not much what we got. They all have their own "character type", often something trope-y (the noble, non-violent Argonian; the brash, violence-loving Orc), but what do we learn about them beyond that? They only have their function in the story, and that's it (So, if it's like that, how does it even matter whose face returns to the screen? If it doesn't really have any meaning anyway).

metheglyn wrote: »

But I wouldn't have wanted Abnur, Lyris, and Sai in place of the others. We don't really know Abnur's fate, and to have him show up suddenly would have been jarring and likely not explained very well (going by how they explained Lyris and Sai being around even if they were the ones the player chose to sacrifice). And I thought Lyris and Sai had their own plans.

I wouldn't have wanted to see Lyris and Sai again either (let alone I sacrificed them in some of my playthroughs). They were well-written in the base game story, for what they were supposed to be, then they already had their return in other stories - I'd rather see other characters getting their chance. But exactly the same goes for many of the characters we actually got this year.

As for Abnur, him still being alive is at least a bit more probable, or at least I remember that I found his end in Dragonhold vague enough and couldn't rule out he was using the situation to conveniently disappear. If he'd return, it would need a good explanation and a detailed enough initiation, in a way - just having him appear again for the story and telling everyone he's fine... that clearly doesn't do it for me (also, he would need a believable reason to agree to help us, of course). Even worse of course for characters who are clearly supposed to have died.

Four_Fingers

Could use some more Naryu though.

Asdara

They did a Henry Cavill move and left the series

AScarlato

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

They were probably referring to Walks and Azah. I think they know Raz isn't underutilized. Skordo could also be considered in the underutilized category. Really, Raz is the outlier in the group from how much he's shown up.

Walks-in-Ash and Azah were only in the base game (Are they interesting characters, through?), but Skordo showed up in 3 unrelated stories (base game, Orsinium, Dragonhold), Gabrielle twice (base game, Greymoor), Darien twice (base game, Summerset). For comparison: Abnur Tharn showed up in 2 different stories (base game, Elsweyr/Dragonhold), Lyris in 2 (base game, Greymoor/Markarth), Sai in 3 (base game, Dragonhold, and in Markarth only in the epilogue together with Lyris). Is that so much of a difference? I don't think so.

Didn't Sai also have a quest in Markarth? I recall doing something with him.

Oh here it was: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Red_Eagle's_Song_(quest)

Islyn

NoticeMeArkay

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

It would have been hysterical if they had Stuga running from the siege camp and say, "Hey! I've been looking for you! We need to defend this camp!" And one must actually talk to her to trigger the siege camp fight.

It would have gotten old fast, but sure would have been a really good call back.

I take that over the NPCS turning their back to the whole fight and doing absolutely nothing while the siege occurs.
It's weirding me out. Why am I spending mats on getting these leeches better gear if they only stand down and not even watch.

SwordOfSagas

voice acting for those characters might blow out the little budget they have left lol

tomofhyrule

Here’s another fun little related lore tidbit regarding returning and non-returning characters:

So if you read the Stirk Fellowship motif books, they do talk about working under the leaders:

• High King Emeric of the Daggerfall Covenant
• Queen Ayrenn of the Aldmeri Dominion
• Prince Irnskar of the Ebonheart Pact
• Gabrielle Benele, acting head of the Mages Guild
• Skordo, acting head of the Fighters Guild

So… is Irnskar now officially in charge of the EP, considering it doesn’t say “acting leader”? During High Isle, it’s just that Jorunn was just in Riften with a girlfriend - which was an appalling reason to skip, especially when there is literally a deadly disease going around that he could have caught and then had his son go in his stead. Why didn’t the lore team make up a plausible reason for that? And now, if Irnskar is sill leading, could they really have not just fixed all of that by dropping one line someone says like “oh, they’re trying to downplay it, but King Jorunn caught the Knahaten Flu so that’s why Irnskar is leading everything now”

Or is this a Game of Thrones style “we just forgot about Jorunn”?

AScarlato

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Here’s another fun little related lore tidbit regarding returning and non-returning characters:

So if you read the Stirk Fellowship motif books, they do talk about working under the leaders:

• High King Emeric of the Daggerfall Covenant
• Queen Ayrenn of the Aldmeri Dominion
• Prince Irnskar of the Ebonheart Pact
• Gabrielle Benele, acting head of the Mages Guild
• Skordo, acting head of the Fighters Guild

So… is Irnskar now officially in charge of the EP, considering it doesn’t say “acting leader”? During High Isle, it’s just that Jorunn was just in Riften with a girlfriend - which was an appalling reason to skip, especially when there is literally a deadly disease going around that he could have caught and then had his son go in his stead. Why didn’t the lore team make up a plausible reason for that? And now, if Irnskar is sill leading, could they really have not just fixed all of that by dropping one line someone says like “oh, they’re trying to downplay it, but King Jorunn caught the Knahaten Flu so that’s why Irnskar is leading everything now”

Or is this a Game of Thrones style “we just forgot about Jorunn”?

Maybe it's the voice acting for Jorunn, but in scenes with them together (I just finished Greymoor and the Epilogue on a character last week), Jorunn can come across as aloof and he has a reputation as not being the sharpest leader - though the people commenting are in opposition to him. Since there is a theme for Irnskar coming out from his father's shadow, it could be a combination of Jorunn letting his son grow, and just being interested more in dalliances. Jorunn's voice actor in Greymoor came across as a kind but distracted Grandpa at this point.

As an aside, I wouldn't mind them following up on Irnskar's interest in Svana and having that come up if we ever get central Skyrim.

tomofhyrule

AScarlato wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Here’s another fun little related lore tidbit regarding returning and non-returning characters:

So if you read the Stirk Fellowship motif books, they do talk about working under the leaders:

• High King Emeric of the Daggerfall Covenant
• Queen Ayrenn of the Aldmeri Dominion
• Prince Irnskar of the Ebonheart Pact
• Gabrielle Benele, acting head of the Mages Guild
• Skordo, acting head of the Fighters Guild

So… is Irnskar now officially in charge of the EP, considering it doesn’t say “acting leader”? During High Isle, it’s just that Jorunn was just in Riften with a girlfriend - which was an appalling reason to skip, especially when there is literally a deadly disease going around that he could have caught and then had his son go in his stead. Why didn’t the lore team make up a plausible reason for that? And now, if Irnskar is sill leading, could they really have not just fixed all of that by dropping one line someone says like “oh, they’re trying to downplay it, but King Jorunn caught the Knahaten Flu so that’s why Irnskar is leading everything now”

Or is this a Game of Thrones style “we just forgot about Jorunn”?

Maybe it's the voice acting for Jorunn, but in scenes with them together (I just finished Greymoor and the Epilogue on a character last week), Jorunn can come across as aloof and he has a reputation as not being the sharpest leader - though the people commenting are in opposition to him. Since there is a theme for Irnskar coming out from his father's shadow, it could be a combination of Jorunn letting his son grow, and just being interested more in dalliances.

Then why don’t they say that?!?!

I have felt a clear anti-EP bias from the devs over the years - Ayrenn can do anything the plot demands of her and her right hand is injected into every other story whether he needs to be or not (even though he wants to sacrifice himself at the end of the basegame AD line), and Emeric is a competent leader… at least until he’s in a room with Ayrenn and he becomes a petulant child.

But still, let’s take things at face value. The leaders (and MQ Companions) are big-name actors, even as much as Jorunn’s VA is atrocious and putting in no effort whatsoever, so of course they can’t get them back. So then at least give plausible excuses for their absences, don’t just ignore it and hope nobody notices (like in Solstice), or even worse, make up an insultingly bad excuse when you have a plausible reason right there like in High Isle.