Oakensoul desperately needs a buff

QB1

When Oakensoul was first introduced it was awesome and a ton of fun, although probably a bit overtuned at the time. The problem now is that new mythics like Monomyth, Saint and Seducer, Velothi's, and others have absolutely pushed overall power levels and utility far beyond what Oakensoul offers now. What was a top-tier mythic when it launched is now considered "training wheels" by most good players.

Oakensoul needs to be buffed/reverted back to its original form to make it competitive again. Because right now, it's just simply not anywhere close. Two bar players using Monomyth or Saint and Seducer get better buffs, double the skills, AND have the ability to wear more sets

Zodiarkslayer

No. It doesn't need a buff. Oakensoul isn't intended to be top tier competitive.
It's an enabler for low to mid tier players.

QB1

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

No. It doesn't need a buff. Oakensoul isn't intended to be top tier competitive.
It's an enabler for low to mid tier players.

Not saying it needs to be top-tier competitive. Just needs to be somewhat competitive. Just because it's an "accessibility" mythic doesn't mean it shouldn't be relevant at all. The two things don't have to be mutually exclusive

Vaqual

Those Mythics are pure power creep accelerators. They should never serve as baseline for balancing. There is no point in having hundreds of sets in the game if nothing can beat 1-2 mythic+monster setups. That is no justification to change Oakensoul.

QB1

Vaqual wrote: »

Those Mythics are pure power creep accelerators. They should never serve as baseline for balancing. There is no point in having hundreds of sets in the game if nothing can beat 1-2 mythic+monster setups. That is no justification to change Oakensoul.

I don't entirely disagree with that.

But I do think Oakensoul could use some love either way. It's already a huge disadvantage being limited to five skills and the trade off was supposed to be gaining a bunch of the best major buffs. Well they nerfed those down to the minor versions and for some reason new mythics like Monomyth and Saint and Seducer now get all all of the major ones. As if two bar builds needed MORE of an advantage over one bar players

preevious

Oakensoul does not really need a buff, IMO.

It brings offense and defense in the same mythic.
It stands to reason that it should perform less than a mythics that brings only offense or defense.

QB1

preevious wrote: »

Oakensoul does not really need a buff, IMO.

It brings offense and defense in the same mythic.
It stands to reason that it should perform less than a mythics that brings only offense or defense.

umm what? monomyth and saint and seducer both bring BETTER versions of the buffs oakensoul provides. So two bar players get better offensive and defensive buffs, double the skills, and more set pieces...

Chilly-McFreeze

The advantage you have over two bar builds is that you only need to juggle half the amount of skills.

Seducer doesn't grants you every buff all the time while being random. You can't count on recieving major resolve when you need it. Plus the minor debuffs only apply to people within 12m.

Monomyth is the flavor of the month and will probably get adjusted once they sold enough copies. Thus it souldn't be the baseline. You know how it works.

preevious

QB1 wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Oakensoul does not really need a buff, IMO.

It brings offense and defense in the same mythic.
It stands to reason that it should perform less than a mythics that brings only offense or defense.

umm what? monomyth and saint and seducer both bring BETTER versions of the buffs oakensoul provides. So two bar players get better offensive and defensive buffs, double the skills, and more set pieces...

That's Dishonnest.

Monomyth and seducer have an array of defensive and offensive buffs, true, but they give one or two at a time.
Oakensoul gives everything all the time.
Of course the buffs on monomyth and seducer should be better ! What would be the point of wearing them instead of oaken, if not?

QB1

if you seriously think monomyth/two bar builds and Oakensoul/one bar builds are even in the same conversation, then I have a bridge to sell you

ESO_Nightingale

I'm pretty happy with where oakensoul is at atm it gives you so much including less skills to manage

QB1

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I'm pretty happy with where oakensoul is at atm it gives you so much including less skills to manage

glad you're happy with it but doesn't change the fact you're at a massive disadvantage in both PvE and PvP

LunaFlora

ideally for me Oakensoul would be a toggle somewhere in the game instead of a Mythic.
Or allow the usage of another Mythic.
Obviously (sadly) it was not developed as an accessibility option, but it does make combat more accessible.

as a disabled girl who uses Oakensoul because the frequent bar swapping and button clicking for the buffs from timed skills was frustrating and a bit painful,
i doubt i will use another mythic for my Damage Dealer builds.
i wish i could use other Mythics like The Saint and Seducer or Rakkhat's Voidmantle as they seem fun, useful, and also make combat more accessible.

i think Oakensoul buffs would be awesome and i sadly doubt that neither buffs or my wishes are happening.

Zodiarkslayer

QB1 wrote: »

Not saying it needs to be top-tier competitive. Just needs to be somewhat competitive. Just because it's an "accessibility" mythic doesn't mean it shouldn't be relevant at all. The two things don't have to be mutually exclusive

But it still is. My Oakensoul StamArc is amazing. It combines Herald, AssAssination and Aedric Spear to have a monuMental amount of damage for what it is.
I crushed the 6mil for 55k.
I am sure with a little tweaking it will hit 110k-120k on a 21mil dummy.
It is by far the best Oakensoul build I ever played. It's better than the heavy attack builds and arguably almost as easy.

Renato90085

oaken is good, i more want see zos buff Sergeant or add more better aoe HA set can fix this problem
i mean ,the HA meta choose still use heavy armor and have max health/ health revive
and you want oaken have competitive in meta beam?the game 95% thing suck than this

QB1

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

QB1 wrote: »

Not saying it needs to be top-tier competitive. Just needs to be somewhat competitive. Just because it's an "accessibility" mythic doesn't mean it shouldn't be relevant at all. The two things don't have to be mutually exclusive

But it still is. My Oakensoul StamArc is amazing. It combines Herald, AssAssination and Aedric Spear to have a monuMental amount of damage for what it is.
I crushed the 6mil for 55k.
I am sure with a little tweaking it will hit 110k-120k on a 21mil dummy.
It is by far the best Oakensoul build I ever played. It's better than the heavy attack builds and arguably almost as easy.

Would love to see that parse. You’d be the first person to ever hit 120K on an Oakensoul build. And even if you could get close to it, that’s saying more about arcanist beam than it is about Oakensoul.

QB1

Renato90085 wrote: »

oaken is good, i more want see zos buff Sergeant or add more better aoe HA set can fix this problem
i mean ,the HA meta choose still use heavy armor and have max health/ health revive
and you want oaken have competitive in meta beam?the game 95% thing suck than this

What do heavy attack builds have to do with this?

preevious

Look, I'm sorry and all, but you can't have easy builds as strong as harder builds. That would just be bad design.

Right now, I use a HA rakkhat build. It's a bit harder to manage than an oakensoul, but far easier than a classic LA build.
I'm a bit stronger than the usual oaken, and I'm far weaker than a LA build.
I accept this. This is where I should be. Weaker than LA builds. I don't ask for buffs to rakkhat's shoulders to bring me at their level, wich would be unfair.

Easier should mean viable but weaker. Oakensoul is perfect as is.

And please, don't talk to me about builds .. it's all about simple vs difficult, builds notwhistanding.

Renato90085

QB1 wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

oaken is good, i more want see zos buff Sergeant or add more better aoe HA set can fix this problem
i mean ,the HA meta choose still use heavy armor and have max health/ health revive
and you want oaken have competitive in meta beam?the game 95% thing suck than this

What do heavy attack builds have to do with this?

because oaken best use way is HA,if you not HA and run oaken,most Mythics play one bar still better than oaken

Renato90085

Meta oaken still use base game heavy armor and have bad stat in 5 part reward,the def stat for solo or new player is good,but in hard group game mode pve,they are useless
Meta beam build have 35% free dmg buff from dk and nb ult combo, one shot 200k+ dmg KB and 80-90+ crit change and full crit dmg
Basically, everything is lose to broken things from the beginning…and you just give up 10-15% free dmg(back bar dot and buff) and try do 120k

QB1

preevious wrote: »

Look, I'm sorry and all, but you can't have easy builds as strong as harder builds. That would just be bad design.

Right now, I use a HA rakkhat build. It's a bit harder to manage than an oakensoul, but far easier than a classic LA build.
I'm a bit stronger than the usual oaken, and I'm far weaker than a LA build.
I accept this. This is where I should be. Weaker than LA builds. I don't ask for buffs to rakkhat's shoulders to bring me at their level, wich would be unfair.

Easier should mean viable but weaker. Oakensoul is perfect as is.

And please, don't talk to me about builds .. it's all about simple vs difficult, builds notwhistanding.

You disagree with me, and that’s fine but that doesn’t make what you say a fact. Oakensoul is nowhere near perfect.

Also I don’t play heavy attack builds. I still light attack weave on all my Oakensoul builds just like I would on a normal two bar build.

I’m not asking to be on par with the best builds. I’m asking for it to be competitive, and right now it is not even close (especially in PvP which is where my perspective mostly comes from). Most PvPers laugh at Oakensoul users.

Two bar builds are always going to be better simply because they have double the skills — more damage, more heals, more mitigation, more utility, more cc, etc. now they also have access to all the best buffs with saint and seducer and monomyth. They also have two more gear slots which gives access to another set bonus.

Oakensoul needs to be reverted back to its original form or something close to it, just to be SOMEWHAT competitive. It still wouldn’t get close to the best two bar builds.

Soarora

LunaFlora wrote: »

ideally for me Oakensoul would be a toggle somewhere in the game instead of a Mythic.
Or allow the usage of another Mythic.
Obviously (sadly) it was not developed as an accessibility option, but it does make combat more accessible.

as a disabled girl who uses Oakensoul because the frequent bar swapping and button clicking for the buffs from timed skills was frustrating and a bit painful,
i doubt i will use another mythic for my Damage Dealer builds.
i wish i could use other Mythics like The Saint and Seducer or Rakkhat's Voidmantle as they seem fun, useful, and also make combat more accessible.

i think Oakensoul buffs would be awesome and i sadly doubt that neither buffs or my wishes are happening.

I think oakensoul is somewhat of a trap— it has a whole lot of buffs but they’re not really that necessary. If you can handle potions, you can offload your major savagery/prophecy/sorcery/brutality into potions. Minor berserk is given by camo hunter but also by combat prayer if you have a healer player with you. Minor courage is a filler buff sometimes given by supports, so average dps don’t even have it. Major resolve is given by a support or a companion. Minor slayer is given by wearing a trial set and also is useless in overland. Etc etc.

Tldr; if you want to use another mythic, go for it! Don’t feel trapped into using oakensoul just because it locks one bar and has a lot of buffs. Having two bars can be useful anyways even if you’re only using one in combat. Like an AoE bar versus a single target bar. Or a self-heals versus full damage bar. Or, like my main, one bar damage and one bar for getting around.

LunaFlora

Soarora wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

ideally for me Oakensoul would be a toggle somewhere in the game instead of a Mythic.
Or allow the usage of another Mythic.
Obviously (sadly) it was not developed as an accessibility option, but it does make combat more accessible.

as a disabled girl who uses Oakensoul because the frequent bar swapping and button clicking for the buffs from timed skills was frustrating and a bit painful,
i doubt i will use another mythic for my Damage Dealer builds.
i wish i could use other Mythics like The Saint and Seducer or Rakkhat's Voidmantle as they seem fun, useful, and also make combat more accessible.

i think Oakensoul buffs would be awesome and i sadly doubt that neither buffs or my wishes are happening.

I think oakensoul is somewhat of a trap— it has a whole lot of buffs but they’re not really that necessary. If you can handle potions, you can offload your major savagery/prophecy/sorcery/brutality into potions. Minor berserk is given by camo hunter but also by combat prayer if you have a healer player with you. Minor courage is a filler buff sometimes given by supports, so average dps don’t even have it. Major resolve is given by a support or a companion. Minor slayer is given by wearing a trial set and also is useless in overland. Etc etc.

Tldr; if you want to use another mythic, go for it! Don’t feel trapped into using oakensoul just because it locks one bar and has a lot of buffs. Having two bars can be useful anyways even if you’re only using one in combat. Like an AoE bar versus a single target bar. Or a self-heals versus full damage bar. Or, like my main, one bar damage and one bar for getting around.

yea i know exactly which skills i need for two bar builds as i had decent builds before u34 and i have made at least one 2 bar build for replacing Oakensoul with Rakkhat, but i did not get it yet and still doubt i will use it.

And some of the buffs i want are even from skills with a good duration,
but not Empower when i use Animal Companions, Herald of the Tome, and Daedric Summoning. only Solar Barrage and Molten Armaments from Dawn's Wrath and Earthen Heart have 20 and 30 seconds of it.

Too many skills are stressful to manage so Oakensoul was a welcome addition.
it does not matter which kind of skills are on my bars. and if i only use one bar why not use the Mythic that basically rewards me for it?

Oblivion_Protocol

I find it funny that people are complaining about Oakensoul providing easy builds that perform as well as harder builds, like Arcanist beam builds don’t outperform both with only two buttons. Subclassing isn’t going anywhere. Might as well buff Oakensoul to give PvE players some kind of variety.

SaffronCitrusflower

One bar builds should always be weaker than two bar builds.

Oakensoul is still obscenely OP. No reason to buff it.

QB1

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

One bar builds should always be weaker than two bar builds.

Oakensoul is still obscenely OP. No reason to buff it.

And they always will be weaker. Two bar builds have double the skills — more damage, more heals, more mitigation, more utility, more cc, etc. they also have access to all the best buffs with saint and seducer and monomyth. They also have two more gear slots which gives access to another set bonus.

Oakensoul builds in most PvP situations are a joke. In pve you now have two bar builds hitting 175K+ and Oakensoul builds lucky if they can crack 100k. How much weaker do you want them to be???

Oakensoul obscenely OP? What world are you living in? I don’t think we’re playing the same game because it’s no where close to two bar builds in PvE or PvP.

YandereGirlfriend

LunaFlora wrote: »

ideally for me Oakensoul would be a toggle somewhere in the game instead of a Mythic.
Or allow the usage of another Mythic.
Obviously (sadly) it was not developed as an accessibility option, but it does make combat more accessible.

as a disabled girl who uses Oakensoul because the frequent bar swapping and button clicking for the buffs from timed skills was frustrating and a bit painful,
i doubt i will use another mythic for my Damage Dealer builds.
i wish i could use other Mythics like The Saint and Seducer or Rakkhat's Voidmantle as they seem fun, useful, and also make combat more accessible.

i think Oakensoul buffs would be awesome and i sadly doubt that neither buffs or my wishes are happening.

Browse YouTube for the content creator Hyperioxes (spelling?). He has a bunch of Rakhat HA builds that are de facto one-bar builds since the skills on the back-bar provide passive benefits for being slotted rather than being used. They are the best way to do HA builds, IMO.

YandereGirlfriend

QB1 wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Look, I'm sorry and all, but you can't have easy builds as strong as harder builds. That would just be bad design.

Right now, I use a HA rakkhat build. It's a bit harder to manage than an oakensoul, but far easier than a classic LA build.
I'm a bit stronger than the usual oaken, and I'm far weaker than a LA build.
I accept this. This is where I should be. Weaker than LA builds. I don't ask for buffs to rakkhat's shoulders to bring me at their level, wich would be unfair.

Easier should mean viable but weaker. Oakensoul is perfect as is.

And please, don't talk to me about builds .. it's all about simple vs difficult, builds notwhistanding.

You disagree with me, and that’s fine but that doesn’t make what you say a fact. Oakensoul is nowhere near perfect.

Also I don’t play heavy attack builds. I still light attack weave on all my Oakensoul builds just like I would on a normal two bar build.

I’m not asking to be on par with the best builds. I’m asking for it to be competitive, and right now it is not even close (especially in PvP which is where my perspective mostly comes from). Most PvPers laugh at Oakensoul users.

Two bar builds are always going to be better simply because they have double the skills — more damage, more heals, more mitigation, more utility, more cc, etc. now they also have access to all the best buffs with saint and seducer and monomyth. They also have two more gear slots which gives access to another set bonus.

Oakensoul needs to be reverted back to its original form or something close to it, just to be SOMEWHAT competitive. It still wouldn’t get close to the best two bar builds.

Two bars also takes more thought and effort to manage, which makes it more difficult to play. Another poster in this thread who uses Oakensoul already said as much. Fewer skills, less stress, easier to play. It is for players who, for whatever valid reason, want a more mentally and physically chill way to play the game. And it achieves that.

Which loops back around to easier builds should not be as strong as more difficult/demanding builds, for obvious reasons. If you could roll around in an FPS game and dominate with only a rocket launcher why would you ever put effort into mastering wrist-flick headshots with a pistol?

We saw this play out already with the OakenChads patches from years ago as well as currently with the Arc Beam. It is not healthy to have the easiest option also being the best option or within a certain close percentage of the best.

Like another poster in here, I use a Rakhat HA build nowadays in PvE and it does very respectably. However, the sweats in my raids will still out-parse me by ~25% or whatever. And that's totally fine. They are working WAY harder than I am. I am big chilling while they are easily over double my APM. That extra APM and effort should be rewarded with performance.

QB1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

QB1 wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Look, I'm sorry and all, but you can't have easy builds as strong as harder builds. That would just be bad design.

Right now, I use a HA rakkhat build. It's a bit harder to manage than an oakensoul, but far easier than a classic LA build.
I'm a bit stronger than the usual oaken, and I'm far weaker than a LA build.
I accept this. This is where I should be. Weaker than LA builds. I don't ask for buffs to rakkhat's shoulders to bring me at their level, wich would be unfair.

Easier should mean viable but weaker. Oakensoul is perfect as is.

And please, don't talk to me about builds .. it's all about simple vs difficult, builds notwhistanding.

You disagree with me, and that’s fine but that doesn’t make what you say a fact. Oakensoul is nowhere near perfect.

Also I don’t play heavy attack builds. I still light attack weave on all my Oakensoul builds just like I would on a normal two bar build.

I’m not asking to be on par with the best builds. I’m asking for it to be competitive, and right now it is not even close (especially in PvP which is where my perspective mostly comes from). Most PvPers laugh at Oakensoul users.

Two bar builds are always going to be better simply because they have double the skills — more damage, more heals, more mitigation, more utility, more cc, etc. now they also have access to all the best buffs with saint and seducer and monomyth. They also have two more gear slots which gives access to another set bonus.

Oakensoul needs to be reverted back to its original form or something close to it, just to be SOMEWHAT competitive. It still wouldn’t get close to the best two bar builds.

Two bars also takes more thought and effort to manage, which makes it more difficult to play. Another poster in this thread who uses Oakensoul already said as much. Fewer skills, less stress, easier to play. It is for players who, for whatever valid reason, want a more mentally and physically chill way to play the game. And it achieves that.

Which loops back around to easier builds should not be as strong as more difficult/demanding builds, for obvious reasons. If you could roll around in an FPS game and dominate with only a rocket launcher why would you ever put effort into mastering wrist-flick headshots with a pistol?

We saw this play out already with the OakenChads patches from years ago as well as currently with the Arc Beam. It is not healthy to have the easiest option also being the best option or within a certain close percentage of the best.

Like another poster in here, I use a Rakhat HA build nowadays in PvE and it does very respectably. However, the sweats in my raids will still out-parse me by ~25% or whatever. And that's totally fine. They are working WAY harder than I am. I am big chilling while they are easily over double my APM. That extra APM and effort should be rewarded with performance.

I’ve said I agree that two bar builds should be better and they naturally will be just due to being able to have twice as many skills and another set bonus, on top of all the new awesome mythics they have access to.

Glad you’re enjoying your Rakhat build, I don’t play HA builds. Idk why everyone always assumes all oakensoul users play HA builds. I light attack weave on all of my builds just like normal builds.

At the end of the day, I would love if my Oakensoul builds were only 25% worse than the best two bar builds 😂😂 Right now if you wanna play one bar you are better off using any other mythic other than the one that’s actually designed for it

QB1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

ideally for me Oakensoul would be a toggle somewhere in the game instead of a Mythic.
Or allow the usage of another Mythic.
Obviously (sadly) it was not developed as an accessibility option, but it does make combat more accessible.

as a disabled girl who uses Oakensoul because the frequent bar swapping and button clicking for the buffs from timed skills was frustrating and a bit painful,
i doubt i will use another mythic for my Damage Dealer builds.
i wish i could use other Mythics like The Saint and Seducer or Rakkhat's Voidmantle as they seem fun, useful, and also make combat more accessible.

i think Oakensoul buffs would be awesome and i sadly doubt that neither buffs or my wishes are happening.

Browse YouTube for the content creator Hyperioxes (spelling?). He has a bunch of Rakhat HA builds that are de facto one-bar builds since the skills on the back-bar provide passive benefits for being slotted rather than being used. They are the best way to do HA builds, IMO.

Do you not see the issue here? Lol every other mythic in the game is better at being “one bar” than the mythic that’s actually designed for it 😂 and yeah here is a video of his explaining how bad Oakensoul is at what it’s supposed to do: https://youtu.be/1omCaqpoiMc?si=MgOzL8erwLJIWcYD

And that video is just him comparing Oakensoul to other “one bar” heavy attack builds and it’s still WAY worse than those! Not to mention fully set up two bar builds….

YandereGirlfriend

QB1 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

ideally for me Oakensoul would be a toggle somewhere in the game instead of a Mythic.
Or allow the usage of another Mythic.
Obviously (sadly) it was not developed as an accessibility option, but it does make combat more accessible.

as a disabled girl who uses Oakensoul because the frequent bar swapping and button clicking for the buffs from timed skills was frustrating and a bit painful,
i doubt i will use another mythic for my Damage Dealer builds.
i wish i could use other Mythics like The Saint and Seducer or Rakkhat's Voidmantle as they seem fun, useful, and also make combat more accessible.

i think Oakensoul buffs would be awesome and i sadly doubt that neither buffs or my wishes are happening.

Browse YouTube for the content creator Hyperioxes (spelling?). He has a bunch of Rakhat HA builds that are de facto one-bar builds since the skills on the back-bar provide passive benefits for being slotted rather than being used. They are the best way to do HA builds, IMO.

Do you not see the issue here? Lol every other mythic in the game is better at being “one bar” than the mythic that’s actually designed for it 😂 and yeah here is a video of his explaining how bad Oakensoul is at what it’s supposed to do: https://youtu.be/1omCaqpoiMc?si=MgOzL8erwLJIWcYD

And that video is just him comparing Oakensoul to other “one bar” heavy attack builds and it’s still WAY worse than those! Not to mention fully set up two bar builds….

Oakensoul is supposed to be the solo-player-friendly option (and it is), hence all of the defensive buffs and such that are not generally needed if you're in a 12-man trial or something. If you're grouped with others in a trial you already have like 12/15 or whatever of its buffs so there really isn't much point to using it. And that's fine.

It arose at the time when there was big discourse about people who did not want to group for whatever reason. It doesn't have to be "The HA Mythic" but that playstyle is generally complementary to that solo player ethos as well as to the accessibility playstyle because HA is an easier playstyle and only having to manage one bar is easier than managing two bars.

His point in that video is that there is an odd sort of cult of personality surrounding the Mythic. You can do HA with it if you want to never think about Empower but if you are willing to source it yourself, which is relatively easy, then, yes, Rakhat is the better option because that Mythic is literally only useful for the HA style - IT is the HA Mythic. (You can also make a good HA build using Anthelmir, FWIW.)