Vengeance stats and hybridization

MincMincMinc

@ZOS_Kevin Can you ask the team, if they are recoding vengeance from scratch, how come we still see unhybridized stats? Wouldn't these stats just be unnecessary bloat? Are these variables necessary to keep to interact with other live systems in future tests? If vengeance was truly going to recode and replace live, would it not make sense to address this now before moving forward with the next systems?

Many people fear that vengeance is going to completely replace live. The big answers people want are whether vengeance will see old systems return like Gear, alchemy, mundus, enchants, cp? The loadout and perk system MAY be temporary, but people only see it as hell's gates into template pvp. If the team wanted to bring stat choices, why did they make the perk and loadout system instead of just making a UI that appeared to let you choose vengeance set bonuses? Seems like it would have been a smarter way to not further the hysteria on the topic.

• Spell crit vs Weapon crit.............................critical
• Spell damage vs Weapon Damage...............damage
• Spell resists vs Physical Resists..................Armor
• Spell pen vs Physical pen............................Penetration

MashmalloMan

Ditto question.

Aside from racials, light armor, and jewerly enchants no one uses, there's really no point to separating physical and spell resistance when they've already combined named buffs and adopted the "armor" statisical value.

Penetration is even farther along in this process, I can't think of any sources that give you specifically spell or physical penetration, it's always "offensive penetration" now. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

So I'm really surprised to see them reintroduce these separations into a brand new "system" in vengence passives. They've said on numerous occasions their plans to combine and simplify the number of calculations going on to make the game more performant, so why are we bringing them back in a test meant for pvp performance?

Feels like one hand isn't talking to the other. Almost as if the lead doesn't have everyone on the same page about the direction of the game.

I'll directly point at these new passives any time someone gives me the excuse that hybridization, class, or set balance has been left mostly untouched for 3-4 years because there is major reworks required around the corner first. Clearly they're not afraid to experiment with things that could in their own words, effect performance in the present, regardless of what's in the future. Aka, 0 reason to not make potions or classes give both named buffs for w/s damage and crit.

MincMincMinc

The way I see it either the team completely didnt think of this, or it was a decision to be backwards compatible with the old code. Which would be a hint that we would see live build systems interact with vengeance skills in future tests.

At some point we would like to see systems like food, enchants, mundus, food, sets, cp all brought in and toggle tested.

I don't know how you could even forget about this since the skills should have been made from scratch.

MashmalloMan

MincMincMinc wrote: »

The way I see it either the team completely didnt think of this, or it was a decision to be backwards compatible with the old code. Which would be a hint that we would see live build systems interact with vengeance skills in future tests.

At some point we would like to see systems like food, enchants, mundus, food, sets, cp all brought in and toggle tested.

I don't know how you could even forget about this since the skills should have been made from scratch.

If they were aiming for backwards compatible, they wouldn't of made passives that give +physical penetration and -spell penetration. It would just be +offensive penetration.

I didn't take a big look at all the passives, but I remember seeing kiss/curses like this and it's just entirely questionable decision making for a "performance test" after confirming these duplicate calculations are potentially causing server lag for years.

MincMincMinc

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

The way I see it either the team completely didnt think of this, or it was a decision to be backwards compatible with the old code. Which would be a hint that we would see live build systems interact with vengeance skills in future tests.

At some point we would like to see systems like food, enchants, mundus, food, sets, cp all brought in and toggle tested.

I don't know how you could even forget about this since the skills should have been made from scratch.

If they were aiming for backwards compatible, they wouldn't of made passives that give +physical penetration and -spell penetration. It would just be +offensive penetration.

I didn't take a big look at all the passives, but I remember seeing kiss/curses like this and it's just entirely questionable decision making for a "performance test" after confirming these duplicate calculations are potentially causing server lag for years.

I question if pen is truly split even on live. In the code it could still be in tandem. Just that the UI shows it as one stat. Also I double checked, the "scout" loadout calls out offensive pen........However the character stats shows split spell and phys pen stats. So maybe they are not actually combined into one new variable.

90% of the perks are useless btw. Either obsolete stats or just strange tradeoffs.