Request: Impenetrable Buff

Jak3Bartez

Since this is a light combat change patch, could impen be increased back up to 200 or so, we have so many crit modifiers now instead of nerfing them you could just buff impen back maybe even add resilience cp to battle spirit so rallying cry doesn't feel like such a need to wear in cyro.

Solariken

That seems reasonable. But whatever buff base Impen gets, Rallying Cry should be needed by at least that much.

MincMincMinc

Jak3Bartez wrote: »

Since this is a light combat change patch, could impen be increased back up to 200 or so, we have so many crit modifiers now instead of nerfing them you could just buff impen back maybe even add resilience cp to battle spirit so rallying cry doesn't feel like such a need to wear in cyro.

Old impen was 258 for reference. Which was about 3.8% crit damage reduction. If we went up to 264 with the 66:1 conversion factor we would hit 4% mit and 7 pieces of impen would land us 1848 crit resist or 28% mitigation (just over rallyingcry 1650(25%)

So pvp base and impen would then become 1320+1848 = 3168(48%) Which basically only mitigates base crit damage down.

The cp crit resist should probably change to 16% match fighting finesse 8+8=16%

PvP gear should have more crit resists 2-4 pieces. You also could work back in older gear designs to counter crit metas as well. For instance before lots of hard changes old warrior's fury used to give the user WD every time enemies piled on crit attacks. You could redesign the set to work like it did before to counteract certain metas.

Heres the "glory days" of eso pvp that most people refer back to. Honestly the set doesnt even seem that strong by today's standards. The health+stam line is kind of a waste. Then the 750 total weapon damage built up takes a long inconsistent time and would still be about 10% or 15% less damage than a meta set like stuhns, essence theif, or oakfather

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The root of the issue is that there are too many crit damage buffs in the game that stack vs not enough competent mitigation sources. In dueling we see people with 180% crit damage builds simply because people can really only get 60% crit mitigation. Zos tried to balance down impen to match the other traits so as to not affect pve......however IMPEN NEEDS TO BE BALANCED AGAINST CRIT DAMAGE first and foremost, not other stats. Much like pen needs to be balanced against the available armor in the game, the amount of crit damage vs the amount of impen available across all the sourecs needs to be close in value.

Jak3Bartez

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Jak3Bartez wrote: »

Since this is a light combat change patch, could impen be increased back up to 200 or so, we have so many crit modifiers now instead of nerfing them you could just buff impen back maybe even add resilience cp to battle spirit so rallying cry doesn't feel like such a need to wear in cyro.

Old impen was 258 for reference. Which was about 3.8% crit damage reduction. If we went up to 264 with the 66:1 conversion factor we would hit 4% mit and 7 pieces of impen would land us 1848 crit resist or 28% mitigation (just over rallyingcry 1650(25%)

So pvp base and impen would then become 1320+1848 = 3168(48%) Which basically only mitigates base crit damage down.

The cp crit resist should probably change to 16% match fighting finesse 8+8=16%

PvP gear should have more crit resists 2-4 pieces. You also could work back in older gear designs to counter crit metas as well. For instance before lots of hard changes old warrior's fury used to give the user WD every time enemies piled on crit attacks. You could redesign the set to work like it did before to counteract certain metas.

Heres the "glory days" of eso pvp that most people refer back to. Honestly the set doesnt even seem that strong by today's standards. The health+stam line is kind of a waste. Then the 750 total weapon damage built up takes a long inconsistent time and would still be about 10% or 15% less damage than a meta set like stuhns, essence theif, or oakfather

---

The root of the issue is that there are too many crit damage buffs in the game that stack vs not enough competent mitigation sources. In dueling we see people with 180% crit damage builds simply because people can really only get 60% crit mitigation. Zos tried to balance down impen to match the other traits so as to not affect pve......however IMPEN NEEDS TO BE BALANCED AGAINST CRIT DAMAGE first and foremost, not other stats. Much like pen needs to be balanced against the available armor in the game, the amount of crit damage vs the amount of impen available across all the sourecs needs to be close in value.

I agree Fury and sets like that as well as dot builds should all be viable and competitive with the meta, I know they probably wouldn't but i'd still rather resilience cp be added to battle spirit for no cp and bgs as they really dont have much other than rallying/ transmutation to deal with high crit meta and they shouldn't be forced to run them just to survive.

Thumbless_Bot

Jak3Bartez wrote: »

Since this is a light combat change patch, could impen be increased back up to 200 or so, we have so many crit modifiers now instead of nerfing them you could just buff impen back maybe even add resilience cp to battle spirit so rallying cry doesn't feel like such a need to wear in cyro.

I dont think this is nearly enough. This is about 3% mitigation, if I am not mistaken. This would give 21% resistance to people with 7 pieces against people who are easily stacking 80%+. It's just not enough imo. Maybe 5%

Jak3Bartez

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Jak3Bartez wrote: »

Since this is a light combat change patch, could impen be increased back up to 200 or so, we have so many crit modifiers now instead of nerfing them you could just buff impen back maybe even add resilience cp to battle spirit so rallying cry doesn't feel like such a need to wear in cyro.

I dont think this is nearly enough. This is about 3% mitigation, if I am not mistaken. This would give 21% resistance to people with 7 pieces against people who are easily stacking 80%+. It's just not enough imo. Maybe 5%

3300 crit resist negates the base 50% crit damage bonus I believe. 5 gold impen (660 same value as resilience cp) + transmutation (1400) and base 1320 gives 3380 crit resist which barely negates base crit. At 258 impen it gives 4010 which is about 60% mitigation and then if you add resilience cp it becomes 70%, so yeah I agree 200 is definitely too low and going to 330 (5% mitigation) with 5 pieces, base resist, transmutation and resilience would be 5030 which is 76% is good, but you still need to be running all that gear. 200 would be a starting point better than it is 132 on live currently at least.

MincMincMinc

Jak3Bartez wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Jak3Bartez wrote: »

Since this is a light combat change patch, could impen be increased back up to 200 or so, we have so many crit modifiers now instead of nerfing them you could just buff impen back maybe even add resilience cp to battle spirit so rallying cry doesn't feel like such a need to wear in cyro.

I dont think this is nearly enough. This is about 3% mitigation, if I am not mistaken. This would give 21% resistance to people with 7 pieces against people who are easily stacking 80%+. It's just not enough imo. Maybe 5%

3300 crit resist negates the base 50% crit damage bonus I believe. 5 gold impen (660 same value as resilience cp) + transmutation (1400) and base 1320 gives 3380 crit resist which barely negates base crit. At 258 impen it gives 4010 which is about 60% mitigation and then if you add resilience cp it becomes 70%, so yeah I agree 200 is definitely too low and going to 330 (5% mitigation) with 5 pieces, base resist, transmutation and resilience would be 5030 which is 76% is good, but you still need to be running all that gear. 200 would be a starting point better than it is 132 on live currently at least.

Well remember what is important. You want your crit resist availability equivalent to your crit damage availability. Otherwise one will be abused over the other. For instance imagine if we could only get 10k pen from a few sources, however you could get 5k armor from handfuls of stacking sources......we would instantly be thrust into a resist meta because the stats have no tension.

So you have to look at what an average non crit focused build runs now adays. Which is upwards around 90% crit damage. Then think of the high crit damage builds and we are upwards of 180% crit damage. So somewhere around 135 is about the middle ground. Well most people only run 3762 crit resists with 6impen and RC so you are talking 57% mitigated from the 135%.

Back in the day when it was much more in tension the average enemy had 50% to maybe 75% crit damage. With the 258 impen players would run around 3k to 3300 crit resist to mitigate 45-50%. So we were atleast mitigating the average enemy not building into crit damage. To meet this by current day standards you need to hit 100% mit or a whopping 6600 crit resist.....good luck. Even then zos added so many stacking unique crit damage sources to the game across every system that the 180% crit damage builds are still going to hit you for +80% damage done.

Not only does impen and crit resists need to be added everywhere, but crit damage sources need to be reigned in to be less volatile. Easy answer is to just replace some crit damage sources with crit resist sources until they are balanced out.

Jak3Bartez

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Jak3Bartez wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Jak3Bartez wrote: »

Since this is a light combat change patch, could impen be increased back up to 200 or so, we have so many crit modifiers now instead of nerfing them you could just buff impen back maybe even add resilience cp to battle spirit so rallying cry doesn't feel like such a need to wear in cyro.

I dont think this is nearly enough. This is about 3% mitigation, if I am not mistaken. This would give 21% resistance to people with 7 pieces against people who are easily stacking 80%+. It's just not enough imo. Maybe 5%

3300 crit resist negates the base 50% crit damage bonus I believe. 5 gold impen (660 same value as resilience cp) + transmutation (1400) and base 1320 gives 3380 crit resist which barely negates base crit. At 258 impen it gives 4010 which is about 60% mitigation and then if you add resilience cp it becomes 70%, so yeah I agree 200 is definitely too low and going to 330 (5% mitigation) with 5 pieces, base resist, transmutation and resilience would be 5030 which is 76% is good, but you still need to be running all that gear. 200 would be a starting point better than it is 132 on live currently at least.

Well remember what is important. You want your crit resist availability equivalent to your crit damage availability. Otherwise one will be abused over the other. For instance imagine if we could only get 10k pen from a few sources, however you could get 5k armor from handfuls of stacking sources......we would instantly be thrust into a resist meta because the stats have no tension.

So you have to look at what an average non crit focused build runs now adays. Which is upwards around 90% crit damage. Then think of the high crit damage builds and we are upwards of 180% crit damage. So somewhere around 135 is about the middle ground. Well most people only run 3762 crit resists with 6impen and RC so you are talking 57% mitigated from the 135%.

Back in the day when it was much more in tension the average enemy had 50% to maybe 75% crit damage. With the 258 impen players would run around 3k to 3300 crit resist to mitigate 45-50%. So we were atleast mitigating the average enemy not building into crit damage. To meet this by current day standards you need to hit 100% mit or a whopping 6600 crit resist.....good luck. Even then zos added so many stacking unique crit damage sources to the game across every system that the 180% crit damage builds are still going to hit you for +80% damage done.

Not only does impen and crit resists need to be added everywhere, but crit damage sources need to be reigned in to be less volatile. Easy answer is to just replace some crit damage sources with crit resist sources until they are balanced out.

Yeah I agree with that, I was going to mention that you'd need a stupid amount of crit resist. I'm not sure which sources of crit damage should be nerfed/changed though. Just take me back to my Necropotence/Lich ranged magblade days in 2016/17 and I'll be happy haha.