PVP Feedback for Subclassing and U47

React

On the PVP side of the game, I think many of us have been pleasantly surprised by how subclassing turned out. I was very skeptical prior to it's release, and the system definitely isn't perfect - but it has shifted the meta back towards burst damage for the first time in years. This was a long overdue adjustment. It genuinely feels like the majority of players can be killed again, especially when you coordinate damage with an ally or two, and PVP is a lot more fun because of it. High, direct damage with good counterplay is the healthiest form of damage to have in PVP, as opposed to high proc/dot damage with little to no coutnerplay.

There are a few things that could use "nerfs", but overall I think it would be much healthier for the state of the game to primarily focus on buffing the under utilized lines. Fixing things like useless passives on the base classes or moving skills around to better fit into their lines like in draconic power/dark magic, making a pass on under used morphs in lines like bone tyrant/living death/curative runeforms/winter's embrace, adjusting weak passives located in damage skill lines to make them more competitive, etc.

By buffing the alternative options, you will greatly increase the diversity of skill lines in PVP. People will spend more time experimenting with different things and will be able to tailor builds to their playstyles that aren't identical to every other setup you encounter. It will increase the pool of sets utilized and overall just create a more fun environment with a better long term retention of players. If the team focuses too heavily on nerfing things that people are enjoying/using, they will simply kill interest in the game.

Right now, there are genuinely only a handful of things I'd personally say could use an outright nerf in PVP.

1) The Restoring Light Line - Currently way too strong defensively, and when U47 hits it is going to become far more widespread if the hurricane change makes it to live. The passives giving a potential 21% healing which now applies to all heals as opposed to just restoring light skills, coupled with the stacking of the rune + ritual heal over times is one of the things that stand out the most in the new system because it just drastically outweighs any other defensive line you can run. I would suggest considering the following as adjustments;

• Remove the heal over time from both morphs of the rune. The rune gives you Major resolve, Minor mending, a reasonably strong heal over time, and 480 equivalent mag/stam regen depending on morph. That is just way too stacked of a skill. Removing the heal over time retains the major resolve and sustain identity of the ability, but will help alleviate the oppressive healing capabilities of templars that simply stand still in multiple heal over times, out healing everything you can possibly do to them. If hurricane was too buff-dense providing Major resolve, minor expedition, and a dot then the rune is far too buff dense providing the aforementioned bonuses.
• One of the following - Reduce the value of the 13% passive to 6%, or reduce the tooltip healing value of extended ritual. Either of these would likely suffice for reducing the oppressive healing this line provides. I do genuinely believe that if one of these changes was made AND the heal was removed from the rune, this line would still be the number one strongest defensive line.

2) Assassination - On the damage side of the game, I really don't want to see many nerfs. That said, the merciless resolve change made in U46 was completely out of touch with PVP. I've always been a proponent of "the ability is difficult to use, it should hit hard". I still believe that, given how conditional it is. But you should not be able to fire it twice back to back. The logic of "making it more accessible for PVE" is just making the ability far too oppressive in PVP. I'm indifferent about the upcoming change to the damage modifier attached to the ability in U47, but I would recommend reverting the change to the max stacks back to 5, or perhaps 6 if the goal is to provide some leeway for firing it in PVE.

3) Animal Companions - I think this skill line is in a reasonable spot, providing some great passives as well as active abilities. There is one outlier I think needs to be adjusted though, and that is the Blue betty/bull netch. These skills are free, give 250 equivalent regen in their morphs, they purge an effect every 5 seconds or provide a damage buff if they don't purge, and they proc a heal on re-cast/expiration. The skill is giving too much as a free ability. One of the following adjustments should be made, primarily so the skill can no longer be "spammed" to proc a free heal + purge every global cooldown

• Give it a small cost, perhaps in the 800-1,000 resource range.
• Or make it so that the first purge does not occur on cast, instead happening after 5 seconds.

4) Elemental susceptibility - This one isn't exactly subclassing related and I was hesitant to mention it as there are many balance issues in PVP that have existed for a long time prior to subclassing, but this skill has been so strong for so long. A few patches ago the nightblade skill "piercing mark" was given a cost as it was apparently "too strong" - but ele susc is drastically stronger and is available to every class, while performing the same core function as mark. One of the following things should happen.

• Give it a cost. Probably in the 1,800-2,000 magicka range.
• Keep it free, but make it only apply the status effects on cast, instead of repeatedly applying them for free throughout the duration.
• Give it a smaller cost in the 800-1,000 magicka range, but have it now apply one of the 3 elemental status effects at random throughout the duration.

Radiate77

While I agree Restoring Light is too strong, as someone with more than half a year (real time) played on their Templar…

I am of the opinion that it has everything to do with Magicka builds’ and their ease of sustain for skills like Extended Ritual. Removing the HoT from Rune is not heavy handed enough of a change to the skill line to actually make a dent in it’s use.

One way that I would handle this, and it would be sweeping, would be to have ZOS take a pass over what should and shouldn’t actually be purgeable. Right now, just about everything is… I feel as though either Stamina or Magicka DoTs/Effects should be able to bypass a cleanse. I don’t care which.

Turtle_Bot

Radiate77 wrote: »

While I agree Restoring Light is too strong, as someone with more than half a year (real time) played on their Templar…

I am of the opinion that it has everything to do with Magicka builds’ and their ease of sustain for skills like Extended Ritual. Removing the HoT from Rune is not heavy handed enough of a change to the skill line to actually make a dent in it’s use.

One way that I would handle this, and it would be sweeping, would be to have ZOS take a pass over what should and shouldn’t actually be purgeable. Right now, just about everything is… I feel as though either Stamina or Magicka DoTs/Effects should be able to bypass a cleanse. I don’t care which.

Maybe have magicka DoTs ignore cleanse since stamina abilities already ignore negates silence debuff.

React

Radiate77 wrote: »

I am of the opinion that it has everything to do with Magicka builds’ and their ease of sustain for skills like Extended Ritual. Removing the HoT from Rune is not heavy handed enough of a change to the skill line to actually make a dent in it’s use.

I think that removing the heal from the rune is the first thing that should happen, as it shouldn't have a heal on it to begin with. Between that and the other adjustments I suggested, I do think there would be a noticeable reduction in the power level of the skill line - but like i said, even with these nerfs it would still likely be the strongest defensive line. Something does have to be the strongest though, right?

Radiate77 wrote: »

One way that I would handle this, and it would be sweeping, would be to have ZOS take a pass over what should and shouldn’t actually be purgeable. Right now, just about everything is… I feel as though either Stamina or Magicka DoTs/Effects should be able to bypass a cleanse. I don’t care which.

I personally don't think any adjustment to the functionality of the purge on extended ritual is needed, outside of making it properly purge jeralls/relequens/kjal stacks. The skill is expensive and fills it's role as one of the only purges that exist well. I just think it provides too much healing in addition to that, which could be reduced via the tooltip or through adjustments to the passives as mentioned.

Again, these nerfs would still likely leave restoring light as the number one strongest defensive skill line, but I think they'd close the gap reasonably enough that with some buffs to other defensive lines, there might be some viable options by comparison. At the very least, these adjustments seem like a good starting point given how far ahead this line is on live.

Radiate77

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

While I agree Restoring Light is too strong, as someone with more than half a year (real time) played on their Templar…

I am of the opinion that it has everything to do with Magicka builds’ and their ease of sustain for skills like Extended Ritual. Removing the HoT from Rune is not heavy handed enough of a change to the skill line to actually make a dent in it’s use.

One way that I would handle this, and it would be sweeping, would be to have ZOS take a pass over what should and shouldn’t actually be purgeable. Right now, just about everything is… I feel as though either Stamina or Magicka DoTs/Effects should be able to bypass a cleanse. I don’t care which.

Maybe have magicka DoTs ignore cleanse since stamina abilities already ignore negates silence debuff.

Yeah, an old friend and I were discussing this awhile ago, around the time of Elemental Susceptibility’s resurgence. As someone who was using purge, there was nothing worse than removing a bunch of status effects while ultimate-level dots ate me alive on my Max Stam Templar.

Inversely, Extended Ritual is too strong on Max Magicka builds, as it completely shuts down players building into DoTs… your opponent could go through 4-6 GCDs and 14k magicka+stamina tagging you with 10 negative effects (excluding Ele) and you can spend 10k magicka on 2 GCDs to remove 10 effects with Ritual and spend the next 2-4 GCDs on a Surprise Attack, Incap, Spec Bow, Spec Bow.

Splitting the current Purge effects in half, having one that functions for Stamina effects, and one for Magicka, or having only one in the game for either, would go a long way towards making it both feel better to use the skill and at the same time, giving DoT builds the capability to run a hybrid of skills and get through at least a little bit to combat all the HoTs through either side. It could also help against Jeralls.

Dovahmiim

Extended Ritual rework to cleanse 50% of negative effects on you, with a minimum of 2-3 could be a good step in scaling the skill to be more effective in outnumbered situations, while making it more fair in 1v1s, or those situations where healer/tanks bots just turtle up and never die in Xv1.

Assassination line + any really strong delayed burst (such as fissure) is super broken, it's turning mid tier players into literally React.

Class lines aside, subclassing would be in a far better spot if:
- You can swap 1 line, not 2. This would add a little more class identity back in to the game, while still giving build freedom.
- You can only use IA sets and class script if you are a pure class.

Major_Mangle

5) Elemental susceptibility - ......

For me the issue goes beyond just elemental susceptibility (but yes I agree that ele sus needs some severe adjustments), but status effects as a whole are a big problem. The amount of free damage it offers for little to zero investment is nothing short but insane. People often bring up how they dislike "free damage procs/DoT sets" and how they do all the damage for a player, but rarely do I see the same people say something on status effects (not referring to you in this case React) which by far outperform most of the DoT-proc sets in the game, with very few exceptions. If the player decides to invest a little bit into status effect damage, it´s easy to have multiple status effects hit for 1,5-2k+/tick (with 0 cooldown, certain builds will even allow you to hit someone with 3-4 of the same status effects within the same GCD).

Status effects offers way too much free AFK pressure and either the damage from these status effects needs to be reduced severely, or ZOS should add some limitation on how many of them you can have on you at any given time. Personally I´d like status effects do 0 damage, but offer more utility in terms of "take X% more damage from Y source" or have unique interactions like hemorrhaging that used to apply minor mangle.

Lord_Hev

Just want to preface by stating that I respect you as a player React, and I've always found your posts here on the forums as being very reasonably objective, and as bias-free as the human mind can be.

I spent one full day in Cyrodiil, for the first time since update 46 introduced subclassing. And just to get my own bias out of the way; I'm vehemently against subclassing and enjoyed playing my pure magplar with all its faults. Now, I may be one to enjoy a little exaggeration here and there... but it genuinely felt like 95% of the players I ran into, rather it be casual players or sweaties, all were in lightning form, and streaking around. And my recaps always had a few merciless resolves on them. Oh, a sorc?, ah nah it's a base nb according to my ui... ah ok there's a merciless resolve proc, yep definitely a nb! Man that hurricane and streaking around threw me off though. Oh look, a templar? Oh, they're streaking... and their DW has a red glow, sitting in restoring light hots and being tanky ok ok... Oh hey a DK! With lightning form and timing merciless resolves on me with molten whips. Oh yes finally... an ACTUAL magsorc! Casting hardened ward and lining up curse and... merciless resolves on me... ok ok... But don't take just my word for it, clearly zos must have seen a pattern too, can't be coincidence that both those lines got put in public review via these first patch notes yea?

Subclass was a very bad pandora's box to open, see... if at the very least scribing 'didn't exist', then you'd still have to really carefully theory craft all your bursty subclass options. The amount of ridiculousness that scribing provides... mainly a burst heal that is not class dependent, and then of course vigor to supplement your healing... it's amazing how survivable one can still be. This is not a healthy solution to overall horrid game balance. It just creates yet -another- looping cycle that this game has seen countless times already all Groundhog Day like. But I don't feel like I should be trying to preach this, you were outspoken against subclassing as well.

Your primary point is the TTK matter. And you express how subclassing has shifted the meta. Why were, and still are players most commonly building so 'tanky' in the first place? It all started with proc sets becoming more and more common. Specifically burst ones, but also dot based ones too naturally. Then we have the advent of the "bombing meta." Now we have both in full force. Gankers can be thrown in the mix as well but they at the very least have always had hard-defining counters to them and have existed since this game existed. So primarily it's been all this extra 'fluff' that has been added to the game. This is the actual root cause that needs to be addressed for TTK. Not using 3 different -offensive- subclass combos and then living off it because of scribing providing something that was foundationally dependent on the classes bringing -for themselves-. Class identity! Very important, thrown out the window. Fake theorycrafting. We can keep playing whack-a-mole with nerfing class lines designed for class identity that is now being parasited by [insert your favorite class to gain all advantages here].

Balance can't revolve soley around 'the meta' because it's malleable and adjusts as needs are needed, and solutions are made visible. It is important to look at the meta and see the problems, yes. But using that as a "man this is a breathe of fresh relief" is a sort-sighted perspective. We've had a decade of whack-a-mole nerfs, sledgehammering approach at balance. How do we actually address -that-?

React

Major_Mangle wrote: »

5) Elemental susceptibility - ......

For me the issue goes beyond just elemental susceptibility (but yes I agree that ele sus needs some severe adjustments), but status effects as a whole are a big problem. The amount of free damage it offers for little to zero investment is nothing short but insane. People often bring up how they dislike "free damage procs/DoT sets" and how they do all the damage for a player, but rarely do I see the same people say something on status effects (not referring to you in this case React) which by far outperform most of the DoT-proc sets in the game, with very few exceptions. If the player decides to invest a little bit into status effect damage, it´s easy to have multiple status effects hit for 1,5-2k+/tick (with 0 cooldown, certain builds will even allow you to hit someone with 3-4 of the same status effects within the same GCD).

Status effects offers way too much free AFK pressure and either the damage from these status effects needs to be reduced severely, or ZOS should add some limitation on how many of them you can have on you at any given time. Personally I´d like status effects do 0 damage, but offer more utility in terms of "take X% more damage from Y source" or have unique interactions like hemorrhaging that used to apply minor mangle. [/spoiler

You know I share the same exact sentiments here regarding status effects in general. Just wanted to focus primarily on subclassing in this post. Only mentioned ele susceptibility since it is so prevalent in PVP right now and has gone unaddressed for so long.

Dovahmiim wrote: »

Class lines aside, subclassing would be in a far better spot if:
- You can swap 1 line, not 2. This would add a little more class identity back in to the game, while still giving build freedom.
- You can only use IA sets and class script if you are a pure class.

I'm not sure about the 1 line thing - after seeing how it's turned out, I think this would result in even less diversity than we've got now. Maybe that would make sense once they've made more progress towards buffing the weaker skill lines.

Dovahmiim wrote: »

Assassination line + any really strong delayed burst (such as fissure) is super broken, it's turning mid tier players into literally React.

I just don't really have an issue with the high burst damage. It all has counterplay and even though you aren't always in a position to properly counterplay it (i.e while outnumbered), it's a healthy form of damage and has been refreshing giving us a setting where most people can die, and furthermore people are actually trying to kill eachother. It was so common prior to this patch for your average cyrodiil player to not even make an effort to kill you if they thought you could kill them, and instead they'd just play pure defense until they had a numbers advantage or you gave up.

Dovahmiim wrote: »

Extended Ritual rework to cleanse 50% of negative effects on you, with a minimum of 2-3 could be a good step in scaling the skill to be more effective in outnumbered situations, while making it more fair in 1v1s, or those situations where healer/tanks bots just turtle up and never die in Xv1.

I don't think the skill needs any increase in effectiveness, outside of it properly purging stacking things. Currently it purges individual stacks of jeralls/relequens/kjal, and I do think it should purge the entirety of the stack as one effect instead.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Just want to preface by stating that I respect you as a player React, and I've always found your posts here on the forums as being very reasonably objective, and as bias-free as the human mind can be.

I spent one full day in Cyrodiil, for the first time since update 46 introduced subclassing. And just to get my own bias out of the way; I'm vehemently against subclassing and enjoyed playing my pure magplar with all its faults. Now, I may be one to enjoy a little exaggeration here and there... but it genuinely felt like 95% of the players I ran into, rather it be casual players or sweaties, all were in lightning form, and streaking around. And my recaps always had a few merciless resolves on them. Oh, a sorc?, ah nah it's a base nb according to my ui... ah ok there's a merciless resolve proc, yep definitely a nb! Man that hurricane and streaking around threw me off though. Oh look, a templar? Oh, they're streaking... and their DW has a red glow, sitting in restoring light hots and being tanky ok ok... Oh hey a DK! With lightning form and timing merciless resolves on me with molten whips. Oh yes finally... an ACTUAL magsorc! Casting hardened ward and lining up curse and... merciless resolves on me... ok ok... But don't take just my word for it, clearly zos must have seen a pattern too, can't be coincidence that both those lines got put in public review via these first patch notes yea?

Subclass was a very bad pandora's box to open, see... if at the very least scribing 'didn't exist', then you'd still have to really carefully theory craft all your bursty subclass options. The amount of ridiculousness that scribing provides... mainly a burst heal that is not class dependent, and then of course vigor to supplement your healing... it's amazing how survivable one can still be. This is not a healthy solution to overall horrid game balance. It just creates yet -another- looping cycle that this game has seen countless times already all Groundhog Day like. But I don't feel like I should be trying to preach this, you were outspoken against subclassing as well.

Your primary point is the TTK matter. And you express how subclassing has shifted the meta. Why were, and still are players most commonly building so 'tanky' in the first place? It all started with proc sets becoming more and more common. Specifically burst ones, but also dot based ones too naturally. Then we have the advent of the "bombing meta." Now we have both in full force. Gankers can be thrown in the mix as well but they at the very least have always had hard-defining counters to them and have existed since this game existed. So primarily it's been all this extra 'fluff' that has been added to the game. This is the actual root cause that needs to be addressed for TTK. Not using 3 different -offensive- subclass combos and then living off it because of scribing providing something that was foundationally dependent on the classes bringing -for themselves-. Class identity! Very important, thrown out the window. Fake theorycrafting. We can keep playing whack-a-mole with nerfing class lines designed for class identity that is now being parasited by [insert your favorite class to gain all advantages here].

Balance can't revolve soley around 'the meta' because it's malleable and adjusts as needs are needed, and solutions are made visible. It is important to look at the meta and see the problems, yes. But using that as a "man this is a breathe of fresh relief" is a sort-sighted perspective. We've had a decade of whack-a-mole nerfs, sledgehammering approach at balance. How do we actually address -that-?

Thanks for the comment @Lord_Hev . Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion. I agree that for the overall health of the game, it would have been better to address the overarching balance problems that have existed for years rather than giving us back this damage meta through subclassing-induced power creep. The reality though is that these things have been pointed out and talked completely to death here on the forums without so much as an acknowledgement on the studio's part. If they were going to make an effort to address them, they'd have done it already.

You suggest that the "subclassing is refreshing" perspective is short sighted, but I'd ask in return what long term potential do you think the pre subclassing environment had? We were years into a stale no damage meta with the studio seemingly having no intentions of addressing, and the vast majority of committed PVP players I know had just flat out quit the game out of boredom. If your preferred path would have been more of the same without the release of subclassing, I have to say I don't think it would have been a more enjoyable one than where we've landed post subclassing.

Zenimax isn't going to change their ways based on our feedback, as evidenced by the past decade. I think the most realistic thing anyone can do if they want to try to offer feedback which may result in a positive change is to keep it in line with other changes they've been making, and to keep it realistic with the functionality of the changes being suggested. That is what I've tried to do here - offer changes that are basic, stat/line based changes that require no mechanical adjustments to implement, and are relevant to the kind of development they stated they had planned for the post subclassing environment. Sure, in an ideal world I'd much rather them fix the core issues causing imbalance in the game - but at this point I accept the reality of ESO and I'm offering what I think are the most reasonable suggestions possible towards fixing basic issues with the new system.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Subclassing really pushed builds to the extreme in all directions (damage, heals, mitigation). There are also some skill lines that allow you to build crazy stats. I've thrown together some bash builds that have the following stats.

Tank Bash: 6.5k bash, 18k pen, 56k armor, 2.8k crit resist (sithis, aetherial ascension, 1pc magma)
Balanced Bash: 6.2k bash, 26k pen, 45k armor, 3.3k crit resist (sithis, shattered fate, 1pc nibenay)
Damage Bash: 6.7k bash, 26k pen, 41k armor, 3.3k crit resist (malacath, shattered fate, 1pc nibenay)

The key is to find skill lines that are stat heavy (e.g. Soldier of Apocrypha w/ Runic Sunder) and use the Armor potions. Those potions are OP w/ subclassing because there is enough sustain now that you don't need Major Intellect/Endurance anymore.

Anyways, I know people don't play bash builds but subclassing changed the boundaries of what is possible.

olsborg

I quit ESO when subclassing came, I valued class identity above all, with it gone there is very little fun for me, but good luck in the future to all.

MincMincMinc

Either put restrictions on subclassing such that only one damage, heal, and tank line can be chosen.
or
Rebalance lines such that they are even distributions of tank, heal, damage so anything can be paired unrestricted.

No other way to do it unless you are fine power creeping the game while also bottlenecking everyone to the same template build.

Alchimiste1

Ty for reverting the hurricane change zos

Heronisan

Yea the warden and templar suggestions are horrible changes for PvE, same with elemental sus, i have tanked on templar for like 7 years, the last thing we need is more of our skills and skill lines nerfed. Barely anyone picks restoring light in PvE, and we have long been seen as the worst tanks. These should not be touched at all.

The HoT for rune was first added because the skill was lacking and fit templar, they then added healing outside the rune because beeing tied to a tiny rune in alot of PvE scenarios was difficult to get the use out of it.

developer comment
*
After the changes to these abilities to grant them healing, we've seen a slight improvement in their ability to defend their sanctified grounds, but we're noticing the class really suffers in the majority of content with mobility. While the class is meant to feel empowered while locked to an area, we're trying to help them feel less clung to an area by offering some passive healing in between and doubling down (well, tripling in this case) when they decide to mark their fighting arena.*

If its to strong in PvP other support lines should be buffed.

Ever since they announced subclassing i said ZOS should atleast go over base class skill lines and make them like dlc classes, dedicated tank/heal/dps to make it fair.

So one solution would be to move rune focus, and eclipse + swapping around the passives (like sacred ground and prism) to aedric spear and make it our tanking tree while dawns wrath is dps tree. Then rune focus wont be in restoring light

React

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Either put restrictions on subclassing such that only one damage, heal, and tank line can be chosen.
or
Rebalance lines such that they are even distributions of tank, heal, damage so anything can be paired unrestricted.

No other way to do it unless you are fine power creeping the game while also bottlenecking everyone to the same template build.

I do think the power creep is fine - they've just got to work on buffing the weaker lines up to par. The ability to stack multiple damage lines is exactly why the damage meta we have exists, without that we'd have the same meta that existed prior to the system being introduced.

Heronisan wrote: »

Yea the warden and templar suggestions are horrible changes for PvE, same with elemental sus, i have tanked on templar for like 7 years, the last thing we need is more of our skills and skill lines nerfed. Barely anyone picks restoring light in PvE, and we have long been seen as the worst tanks. These should not be touched at all.

The HoT for rune was first added because the skill was lacking and fit templar, they then added healing outside the rune because beeing tied to a tiny rune in alot of PvE scenarios was difficult to get the use out of it.

That's the consequence of the studio refusing to balance PVP and PVE separately - you'll never make everyone happy. The unfortunate reality though it that restoring light is far too strong now, and is one of the few things that is truly overperforming to a level where it needs to be brought down marginally in PVP. I do agree they need to be buffing the other, weaker support lines as I've stated a few times - but not to the levels that restoring light is at currently. I fail to see how the blue betty/bull netch change would have any significant impact on PVE though - you aren't spamming it in that environment, which is the problematic part of the ability that proposal is meant to address.

Heronisan wrote: »

Ever since they announced subclassing i said ZOS should atleast go over base class skill lines and make them like dlc classes, dedicated tank/heal/dps to make it fair.

So one solution would be to move rune focus, and eclipse + swapping around the passives (like sacred ground and prism) to aedric spear and make it our tanking tree while dawns wrath is dps tree. Then rune focus wont be in restoring light

They could work towards things like this, sure. I think the swapping of skills and passives definitely could resolve some of the issues with the base classes under subclassing. But your proposal here shows that you aren't understanding the restoring light issue from the pvp perspective - because eclipse (or rather, the living dark morph) is an even stronger defensive ability than channeled focus/restoring focus. Even if the sacred ground passive was moved along with your suggestion, restoring light would remain in possibly an even stronger position than it is now. Living dark is one of the strongest self heals that exist in the PVP environment.

Joy_Division

I'm of two minds about the OP. I agree with its basic stated premise: that the changes to u46 made the PvP in this game more enjoyable, and that the devs should focus on thinking of ways to make other skill lines more appealing.

But the majority of the post was spent telling the devs how they should nerf the best perfoming lines. So, it's basically what many feared about subclassing; yep. Your good class skills are going to get hit with a nerf bat bc/ subclassing.

Gun to my head, would I agree the lines identified by the OP are stronger? Yeah. But that's fine. Yeah, I said it. It's fine to have some skill lines that are fun/inspirational/effective while we think of ways to make the others appealing to use. Especially if we are going to adhere to the fantasy that, lol, pure classes are viable options.

This patch is already full of undesirable changes that basically tell me that, yep, ZOS is going to do as many of us feared with the announcement of subclassing: nerf first, ask questions later. The ultimate passive changes are to me quintessentially bad changes: you now get nothing unique from your class, here's a generic buff you could get from a pot instead.

The only thing I think should get immediate attention (as opposed to nerfed) is elemental susceptibility. The sweats on Vengeance proved this skill is very very very strong (as oppsed to say Assassination which is just strong) as they still all, all of them, used it even though it cost 4k magicka and had no status effects. To me, it's less about the skill's strength than its passive nature that needs reforming (and given this PTS empahsis on passive skills, I'm surprised this got no adjustment). I tolerated this skill for years because PVP was all tanks/defense/heals. The OP is right that we've finally moved away from that so it's about time this skill gets reworked to be something more active and interesting to use.

Alteripseityb14_ESO

The Arcanist/ Banner thing is pretty crazy.

React

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm of two minds about the OP. I agree with its basic stated premise: that the changes to u46 made the PvP in this game more enjoyable, and that the devs should focus on thinking of ways to make other skill lines more appealing.

But the majority of the post was spent telling the devs how they should nerf the best perfoming lines. So, it's basically what many feared about subclassing; yep. Your good class skills are going to get hit with a nerf bat bc/ subclassing.

It was unexpected bc/ the poster's history has rarely advocated for nerfs. I think that for people who have played this game for so long are so used to thr ZOS solution that nerf is the only way to "improve" the game, they just subconsciously adapt the same mindset.

I don't think I've subconsciously adapted the mindset that nerfing things is the way to improve the game. I've stated over and over again, both here as well as on stream and in any ESO discord I chat in, that they should be primarily focusing on buffing under utilized lines to be similar in power to the most chosen lines. This is undoubtedly the best way forward to reduce the homogenization in what setups people are using, as well as ensuring that people are happy with their power and spend more time interested in the game. As I even state in the OP, "If the team focuses too heavily on nerfing things that people are enjoying/using, they will simply kill interest in the game.".

Joy_Division wrote: »

Gun to my head, would I agree the lines identified by the OP are stronger? Yeah. But that's fine. Yeah, I said it. It's fine to have some skill lines that are fun/inspirational/effective while we think of ways to make the others appealing to use.

While I agree with your sentiment here in general, I disagree that things which are objectively too strong should be left that way as "inspiration" for where they should be aiming when adjusting similar lines. Restoring light is what I think is the single most egregious example currently - the line is objectively the best defensive line in the game, by a huge margin. I think it would be very unhealthy if they use this as the benchmark for where other defensive lines should be brought up to.

I don't think anything I suggested here is a huge nerf that would really detract from the amount of enjoyment anyone is having with this new system in PVP. The merciless resolve change would be reverting it back to a power level I think everybody was happy with, the netch change is very minor but addresses what I would describe the problematic spamming of a free ability for too much instant return, and the restoring light would bring the line to a level I'd be comfortable saying could be a "standard" to be aimed for when buffing similar skill lines.

When these adjustments are the only things across the vast pool of skills/lines I'm suggesting be outright nerfed, I think the whole "subconsciously adapted the mindset that nerfing things is the way to improve the game" statement is a bit harsh, especially given my established stance on how they should be buffing under utilized lines.

I did go ahead and remove my thoughts on storm calling. My main concern with this line is how prevalent it has become, leading to the "homogenization" that was one my largest fears going into subclassing. That said, I don't think the line is really too strong overall, but instead represents a power level which would be a healthy benchmark to use when buffing other lines moving forward.

Urzigurumash

I dislike the trichotomous reshuffling of Skill Lines so they fit neatly into Trinity Roles, seems to me this will diminish whatever viability remains for Pure Classing.

I speak mostly of DK and its Damage / Debuff / CC elements spread throughout its lines, but also of the small amount of crossover in Necro and Warden, mostly in Bone Tyrant and Winter's Embrace.

Pure DKs have Fossilize, a CC in the Healing Line, Leap, a Burst Ult in the Tanking Line, and Noxious Breath with the Warmth passive, a Debuff and CC in the Damage Line, among others.

I would say this idea is totally innappropriate for DK, a prayer for ruination of the Akaviri Martial Tradition, and it must be resolutely opposed by DK Mains.

Urzigurumash

If you're thinking in response to me that a Pure DK still has access to everything even if reshuffled, what happens when there's not room? Tanks never even used Leap, imagine if that became changed for PvE Tanking.

But, the change to Lightning Form should have all of us old class devotees meditating on impermanence and the inexorability of entropy and such.

Joy_Division

React wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm of two minds about the OP. I agree with its basic stated premise: that the changes to u46 made the PvP in this game more enjoyable, and that the devs should focus on thinking of ways to make other skill lines more appealing.

But the majority of the post was spent telling the devs how they should nerf the best perfoming lines. So, it's basically what many feared about subclassing; yep. Your good class skills are going to get hit with a nerf bat bc/ subclassing.

It was unexpected bc/ the poster's history has rarely advocated for nerfs. I think that for people who have played this game for so long are so used to thr ZOS solution that nerf is the only way to "improve" the game, they just subconsciously adapt the same mindset.

I don't think I've subconsciously adapted the mindset that nerfing things is the way to improve the game. I've stated over and over again, both here as well as on stream and in any ESO discord I chat in, that they should be primarily focusing on buffing under utilized lines to be similar in power to the most chosen lines. This is undoubtedly the best way forward to reduce the homogenization in what setups people are using, as well as ensuring that people are happy with their power and spend more time interested in the game. As I even state in the OP, "If the team focuses too heavily on nerfing things that people are enjoying/using, they will simply kill interest in the game.".

Joy_Division wrote: »

Gun to my head, would I agree the lines identified by the OP are stronger? Yeah. But that's fine. Yeah, I said it. It's fine to have some skill lines that are fun/inspirational/effective while we think of ways to make the others appealing to use.

While I agree with your sentiment here in general, I disagree that things which are objectively too strong should be left that way as "inspiration" for where they should be aiming when adjusting similar lines. Restoring light is what I think is the single most egregious example currently - the line is objectively the best defensive line in the game, by a huge margin. I think it would be very unhealthy if they use this as the benchmark for where other defensive lines should be brought up to.

I don't think anything I suggested here is a huge nerf that would really detract from the amount of enjoyment anyone is having with this new system in PVP. The merciless resolve change would be reverting it back to a power level I think everybody was happy with, the netch change is very minor but addresses what I would describe the problematic spamming of a free ability for too much instant return, and the restoring light would bring the line to a level I'd be comfortable saying could be a "standard" to be aimed for when buffing similar skill lines.

When these adjustments are the only things across the vast pool of skills/lines I'm suggesting be outright nerfed, I think the whole "subconsciously adapted the mindset that nerfing things is the way to improve the game" statement is a bit harsh, especially given my established stance on how they should be buffing under utilized lines.

I did go ahead and remove my thoughts on storm calling. My main concern with this line is how prevalent it has become, leading to the "homogenization" that was one my largest fears going into subclassing. That said, I don't think the line is really too strong overall, but instead represents a power level which would be a healthy benchmark to use when buffing other lines moving forward.

I will agree that subconscious remark was harsh. It was typed out of frustration of seeing a post full of specific, detailed, and persuasive arguments that things should be nerfed and not seeing the same for lines that need improvements. It was unfair and I will edit the post.

Since most of us agree that the game would be better to focus on buffing the under utilized lines, then all I meant to convey is that think it would be for the best to also provide detailed, specific, and persuasive in what is is too weak. I don't think it's a stretch to say that ZOS needs a lot more help in how to make abilities and lines more appealing and attractive rather than why things need to be nerfed. With everything except RoA and heal stacking, they have shown to be rather enthusiastic about nerfing things. While I don't doubt they do try to make all the lines and abilities good, their track record is hesitant and mixed.

Bluestin

Things like this make me wonder if the sub-classing system would be better balanced by having some aspects of passives and abilities only work if your base class is actually that class, for example the weapon damage bonus from grim focus only activating if your base class is actually nightblade, or the healing increase from restoring light only working if your base class is actually templar so as not to completely destroy pure-classes in the face of sub classing.

A sort of "Class mastery" style system for passive and abilities where aspects of them only work if your primary class is that class. People could still use merciless and cleansing ritual etc, but those things would only be at their strongest if your base class is associated with those skill lines otherwise you get slightly weakened versions.

BlackLabel

Warden needs a nerf or tweaks, specifically netch (shouldn't be free / insta cast time, pick one), also shalks is too strong as a delayed burst skill (remove minor breach).

Buff deadric summoning by adding the same small heal regen ward has to hardened ward.

Blackrim

BlackLabel wrote: »

Warden needs a nerf or tweaks, specifically netch (shouldn't be free / insta cast time, pick one), also shalks is too strong as a delayed burst skill (remove minor breach).

Buff deadric summoning by adding the same small heal regen ward has to hardened ward.

I think it honestly is perfectly fine. All the OTHER damage skills need to be buffed to be on par with deep fissure/animal companion.

BlackLabel

Blackrim wrote: »

BlackLabel wrote: »

Warden needs a nerf or tweaks, specifically netch (shouldn't be free / insta cast time, pick one), also shalks is too strong as a delayed burst skill (remove minor breach).

Buff deadric summoning by adding the same small heal regen ward has to hardened ward.

I think it honestly is perfectly fine. All the OTHER damage skills need to be buffed to be on par with deep fissure/animal companion.

Either works. I just don’t like feeling severely outclassed in PVP because I refuse to choose the overly dominant cookie cutter skill likes. It’s obvious that animal companions is the common denominator of all the meta skill line combinations in PvP by a long shot.

Nerf animal companions or buff outclassed lines like Daedric summoning

warm_blanket

Just posting to underline the point that so far this is the best pvp meta we've had in a long while. Despite my own initial misgivings on subclassing it's turned out the extra sources of damage we can source is just what was needed.

Further adjustments to skills and passives to give more meaningful build decisions would be nice to see, but please take care to keep an eye on where we are with respect to the offensive/defensive dynamic and avoid regressing back to the overly defensive meta.

Even if all skill lines were equally viable it wouldn't be fun at all if players could just choose to force stalemates whenever they felt like it.

Heronisan

React wrote: »

That's the consequence of the studio refusing to balance PVP and PVE separately - you'll never make everyone happy. The unfortunate reality though it that restoring light is far too strong now, and is one of the few things that is truly overperforming to a level where it needs to be brought down marginally in PVP. I do agree they need to be buffing the other, weaker support lines as I've stated a few times - but not to the levels that restoring light is at currently. I fail to see how the blue betty/bull netch change would have any significant impact on PVE though - you aren't spamming it in that environment, which is the problematic part of the ability that proposal is meant to address.



They could work towards things like this, sure. I think the swapping of skills and passives definitely could resolve some of the issues with the base classes under subclassing. But your proposal here shows that you aren't understanding the restoring light issue from the pvp perspective - because eclipse (or rather, the living dark morph) is an even stronger defensive ability than channeled focus/restoring focus. Even if the sacred ground passive was moved along with your suggestion, restoring light would remain in possibly an even stronger position than it is now. Living dark is one of the strongest self heals that exist in the PVP environment.

I agree they should separate PvE and PvP balance, i dont understand why they havent done this years ago since it would be much easier to balance, they seem to be able to do it looking at vengeance mode, when loading into PvP area you could load up PvP balanced version of all the skills

Templar will be almost impossible to balance both ways, because its support roles are weak or never picked in PvE so no nerfs are warranted and they are very far awsy from a tank/fps/heal tree, its all split up into everything.

Aedric spear have 1 tanking ability (radiant ward) and like 0.5 tanking passives, so if subclassing this is an incredibly bad line to keep, u get just 1 thing (our class shield) , which is very important tbh and should not be all on its own like this making it a huge waste of skill line for tank

Dawns wrath have same problem, living dark is great for 1t 3DD hardmodes or tanking survivability in general, and it has 2 useful tanking passive (restoring spirit, prism)

But picking an entire skill line just for 1 heal ability that only works on direct damage and you wouldnt need playing with a healer pretty much is also an insanely wasted skill line

Lastly we have restoring light, here we can atleast get major resolve, some stam regen while blocking (templar tank sucked ass on the sustain side compared to other tanks this is all we have),

ritual with a cleanse and group heal which can be very useful in many dungeons, atleast 3 passives that can be useful for tanking, our only source of heal that scales with health which is the HoT on rune focus, and the only skills that fit with the class fantasy of setting down the "house" where we are supposed to be strong. We are also more of a HoT tank while the others are more of direct heal tanks, but even other tanks have some type of HoT aswell

The 2 other skill lines is literal dogwater for tanking and are not worth keeping if deciding to subclass, and restoring light gives us the bare minimum, so its the only one you should keep if tanking and subclassing. Any nerfs to this is also nerfs to the weakest tank, and all our skill lines would be trash for tanking.

The only way to balance templar is a complete class rework and cleaning up of pretty useless passives which ive wnted for years, you cant nerf it it any way if you want no one to pick it for support roles in PvE, i would be fine with not putting eclipse in aedric spear just rune focus.

yes i have no clue on PvP side, there is no sollution to this other then sepparating PvP or PvE or sweeping class changes.

Weesacs

I personally feel the damage within the animal companion line is OK - its the sustain that needs to be looked at, and this is coming from someone who uses the skill line.

For example, having the following:

• Passive regen from Betty Netch
• 20% sustain from Flourish
• Shalks being able to trigger both buffs of Wretched Vitality from one skill

is way overloaded from a sustain perspective.

There's a reason why most of PvP players run the skill line ... and its mostly for the regen.

I've taken quite a few screenshots playing BGs with the majority of players having Netch tentacles attached to them; its quite amusing but on the other hand, kind of highlights the importance of the skill line within PvP and the overuse of it.

Essentially, I think the sustainability part of the skill line needs to be toned down, the rest of the skill line is fine, but this is just my opinion.

LittlePinkDot

React wrote: »

On the PVP side of the game, I think many of us have been pleasantly surprised by how subclassing turned out. I was very skeptical prior to it's release, and the system definitely isn't perfect - but it has shifted the meta back towards burst damage for the first time in years. This was a long overdue adjustment. It genuinely feels like the majority of players can be killed again, especially when you coordinate damage with an ally or two, and PVP is a lot more fun because of it. High, direct damage with good counterplay is the healthiest form of damage to have in PVP, as opposed to high proc/dot damage with little to no coutnerplay.

There are a few things that could use "nerfs", but overall I think it would be much healthier for the state of the game to primarily focus on buffing the under utilized lines. Fixing things like useless passives on the base classes or moving skills around to better fit into their lines like in draconic power/dark magic, making a pass on under used morphs in lines like bone tyrant/living death/curative runeforms/winter's embrace, adjusting weak passives located in damage skill lines to make them more competitive, etc.

By buffing the alternative options, you will greatly increase the diversity of skill lines in PVP. People will spend more time experimenting with different things and will be able to tailor builds to their playstyles that aren't identical to every other setup you encounter. It will increase the pool of sets utilized and overall just create a more fun environment with a better long term retention of players. If the team focuses too heavily on nerfing things that people are enjoying/using, they will simply kill interest in the game.

Right now, there are genuinely only a handful of things I'd personally say could use an outright nerf in PVP.

1) The Restoring Light Line - Currently way too strong defensively, and when U47 hits it is going to become far more widespread if the hurricane change makes it to live. The passives giving a potential 21% healing which now applies to all heals as opposed to just restoring light skills, coupled with the stacking of the rune + ritual heal over times is one of the things that stand out the most in the new system because it just drastically outweighs any other defensive line you can run. I would suggest considering the following as adjustments;

• Remove the heal over time from both morphs of the rune. The rune gives you Major resolve, Minor mending, a reasonably strong heal over time, and 480 equivalent mag/stam regen depending on morph. That is just way too stacked of a skill. Removing the heal over time retains the major resolve and sustain identity of the ability, but will help alleviate the oppressive healing capabilities of templars that simply stand still in multiple heal over times, out healing everything you can possibly do to them. If hurricane was too buff-dense providing Major resolve, minor expedition, and a dot then the rune is far too buff dense providing the aforementioned bonuses.
• One of the following - Reduce the value of the 13% passive to 6%, or reduce the tooltip healing value of extended ritual. Either of these would likely suffice for reducing the oppressive healing this line provides. I do genuinely believe that if one of these changes was made AND the heal was removed from the rune, this line would still be the number one strongest defensive line.

2) Assassination - On the damage side of the game, I really don't want to see many nerfs. That said, the merciless resolve change made in U46 was completely out of touch with PVP. I've always been a proponent of "the ability is difficult to use, it should hit hard". I still believe that, given how conditional it is. But you should not be able to fire it twice back to back. The logic of "making it more accessible for PVE" is just making the ability far too oppressive in PVP. I'm indifferent about the upcoming change to the damage modifier attached to the ability in U47, but I would recommend reverting the change to the max stacks back to 5, or perhaps 6 if the goal is to provide some leeway for firing it in PVE.

3) Animal Companions - I think this skill line is in a reasonable spot, providing some great passives as well as active abilities. There is one outlier I think needs to be adjusted though, and that is the Blue betty/bull netch. These skills are free, give 250 equivalent regen in their morphs, they purge an effect every 5 seconds or provide a damage buff if they don't purge, and they proc a heal on re-cast/expiration. The skill is giving too much as a free ability. One of the following adjustments should be made, primarily so the skill can no longer be "spammed" to proc a free heal + purge every global cooldown

• Give it a small cost, perhaps in the 800-1,000 resource range.
• Or make it so that the first purge does not occur on cast, instead happening after 5 seconds.

4) Elemental susceptibility - This one isn't exactly subclassing related and I was hesitant to mention it as there are many balance issues in PVP that have existed for a long time prior to subclassing, but this skill has been so strong for so long. A few patches ago the nightblade skill "piercing mark" was given a cost as it was apparently "too strong" - but ele susc is drastically stronger and is available to every class, while performing the same core function as mark. One of the following things should happen.

• Give it a cost. Probably in the 1,800-2,000 magicka range.
• Keep it free, but make it only apply the status effects on cast, instead of repeatedly applying them for free throughout the duration.
• Give it a smaller cost in the 800-1,000 magicka range, but have it now apply one of the 3 elemental status effects at random throughout the duration.

I'm late to the subclassing party on console. Still leveling up skill lines on characters, haven't tried the new builds in PvP yet.
How has the meta shifted back to burst damage? Is there some reason I cannot use DoT damage anymore?

MincMincMinc

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

React wrote: »

On the PVP side of the game, I think many of us have been pleasantly surprised by how subclassing turned out. I was very skeptical prior to it's release, and the system definitely isn't perfect - but it has shifted the meta back towards burst damage for the first time in years. This was a long overdue adjustment. It genuinely feels like the majority of players can be killed again, especially when you coordinate damage with an ally or two, and PVP is a lot more fun because of it. High, direct damage with good counterplay is the healthiest form of damage to have in PVP, as opposed to high proc/dot damage with little to no coutnerplay.

There are a few things that could use "nerfs", but overall I think it would be much healthier for the state of the game to primarily focus on buffing the under utilized lines. Fixing things like useless passives on the base classes or moving skills around to better fit into their lines like in draconic power/dark magic, making a pass on under used morphs in lines like bone tyrant/living death/curative runeforms/winter's embrace, adjusting weak passives located in damage skill lines to make them more competitive, etc.

By buffing the alternative options, you will greatly increase the diversity of skill lines in PVP. People will spend more time experimenting with different things and will be able to tailor builds to their playstyles that aren't identical to every other setup you encounter. It will increase the pool of sets utilized and overall just create a more fun environment with a better long term retention of players. If the team focuses too heavily on nerfing things that people are enjoying/using, they will simply kill interest in the game.

Right now, there are genuinely only a handful of things I'd personally say could use an outright nerf in PVP.

1) The Restoring Light Line - Currently way too strong defensively, and when U47 hits it is going to become far more widespread if the hurricane change makes it to live. The passives giving a potential 21% healing which now applies to all heals as opposed to just restoring light skills, coupled with the stacking of the rune + ritual heal over times is one of the things that stand out the most in the new system because it just drastically outweighs any other defensive line you can run. I would suggest considering the following as adjustments;

• Remove the heal over time from both morphs of the rune. The rune gives you Major resolve, Minor mending, a reasonably strong heal over time, and 480 equivalent mag/stam regen depending on morph. That is just way too stacked of a skill. Removing the heal over time retains the major resolve and sustain identity of the ability, but will help alleviate the oppressive healing capabilities of templars that simply stand still in multiple heal over times, out healing everything you can possibly do to them. If hurricane was too buff-dense providing Major resolve, minor expedition, and a dot then the rune is far too buff dense providing the aforementioned bonuses.
• One of the following - Reduce the value of the 13% passive to 6%, or reduce the tooltip healing value of extended ritual. Either of these would likely suffice for reducing the oppressive healing this line provides. I do genuinely believe that if one of these changes was made AND the heal was removed from the rune, this line would still be the number one strongest defensive line.

2) Assassination - On the damage side of the game, I really don't want to see many nerfs. That said, the merciless resolve change made in U46 was completely out of touch with PVP. I've always been a proponent of "the ability is difficult to use, it should hit hard". I still believe that, given how conditional it is. But you should not be able to fire it twice back to back. The logic of "making it more accessible for PVE" is just making the ability far too oppressive in PVP. I'm indifferent about the upcoming change to the damage modifier attached to the ability in U47, but I would recommend reverting the change to the max stacks back to 5, or perhaps 6 if the goal is to provide some leeway for firing it in PVE.

3) Animal Companions - I think this skill line is in a reasonable spot, providing some great passives as well as active abilities. There is one outlier I think needs to be adjusted though, and that is the Blue betty/bull netch. These skills are free, give 250 equivalent regen in their morphs, they purge an effect every 5 seconds or provide a damage buff if they don't purge, and they proc a heal on re-cast/expiration. The skill is giving too much as a free ability. One of the following adjustments should be made, primarily so the skill can no longer be "spammed" to proc a free heal + purge every global cooldown

• Give it a small cost, perhaps in the 800-1,000 resource range.
• Or make it so that the first purge does not occur on cast, instead happening after 5 seconds.

4) Elemental susceptibility - This one isn't exactly subclassing related and I was hesitant to mention it as there are many balance issues in PVP that have existed for a long time prior to subclassing, but this skill has been so strong for so long. A few patches ago the nightblade skill "piercing mark" was given a cost as it was apparently "too strong" - but ele susc is drastically stronger and is available to every class, while performing the same core function as mark. One of the following things should happen.

• Give it a cost. Probably in the 1,800-2,000 magicka range.
• Keep it free, but make it only apply the status effects on cast, instead of repeatedly applying them for free throughout the duration.
• Give it a smaller cost in the 800-1,000 magicka range, but have it now apply one of the 3 elemental status effects at random throughout the duration.

I'm late to the subclassing party on console. Still leveling up skill lines on characters, haven't tried the new builds in PvP yet.
How has the meta shifted back to burst damage? Is there some reason I cannot use DoT damage anymore?

Most builds run wield soul with major vitality and charm from warden. At the same time netch gives a free purge against dots and effects. Easy burst heal that does 2/3 or more of a players hp easily counters dots. People use more burst now to try and close kills before players can easily outheal. The lack of crit resist available and the over abundance of crit damage plays into trying to stack as much damage within one GCD as possible.

CameraBeardThePirate

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

React wrote: »

On the PVP side of the game, I think many of us have been pleasantly surprised by how subclassing turned out. I was very skeptical prior to it's release, and the system definitely isn't perfect - but it has shifted the meta back towards burst damage for the first time in years. This was a long overdue adjustment. It genuinely feels like the majority of players can be killed again, especially when you coordinate damage with an ally or two, and PVP is a lot more fun because of it. High, direct damage with good counterplay is the healthiest form of damage to have in PVP, as opposed to high proc/dot damage with little to no coutnerplay.

There are a few things that could use "nerfs", but overall I think it would be much healthier for the state of the game to primarily focus on buffing the under utilized lines. Fixing things like useless passives on the base classes or moving skills around to better fit into their lines like in draconic power/dark magic, making a pass on under used morphs in lines like bone tyrant/living death/curative runeforms/winter's embrace, adjusting weak passives located in damage skill lines to make them more competitive, etc.

By buffing the alternative options, you will greatly increase the diversity of skill lines in PVP. People will spend more time experimenting with different things and will be able to tailor builds to their playstyles that aren't identical to every other setup you encounter. It will increase the pool of sets utilized and overall just create a more fun environment with a better long term retention of players. If the team focuses too heavily on nerfing things that people are enjoying/using, they will simply kill interest in the game.

Right now, there are genuinely only a handful of things I'd personally say could use an outright nerf in PVP.

1) The Restoring Light Line - Currently way too strong defensively, and when U47 hits it is going to become far more widespread if the hurricane change makes it to live. The passives giving a potential 21% healing which now applies to all heals as opposed to just restoring light skills, coupled with the stacking of the rune + ritual heal over times is one of the things that stand out the most in the new system because it just drastically outweighs any other defensive line you can run. I would suggest considering the following as adjustments;

• Remove the heal over time from both morphs of the rune. The rune gives you Major resolve, Minor mending, a reasonably strong heal over time, and 480 equivalent mag/stam regen depending on morph. That is just way too stacked of a skill. Removing the heal over time retains the major resolve and sustain identity of the ability, but will help alleviate the oppressive healing capabilities of templars that simply stand still in multiple heal over times, out healing everything you can possibly do to them. If hurricane was too buff-dense providing Major resolve, minor expedition, and a dot then the rune is far too buff dense providing the aforementioned bonuses.
• One of the following - Reduce the value of the 13% passive to 6%, or reduce the tooltip healing value of extended ritual. Either of these would likely suffice for reducing the oppressive healing this line provides. I do genuinely believe that if one of these changes was made AND the heal was removed from the rune, this line would still be the number one strongest defensive line.

2) Assassination - On the damage side of the game, I really don't want to see many nerfs. That said, the merciless resolve change made in U46 was completely out of touch with PVP. I've always been a proponent of "the ability is difficult to use, it should hit hard". I still believe that, given how conditional it is. But you should not be able to fire it twice back to back. The logic of "making it more accessible for PVE" is just making the ability far too oppressive in PVP. I'm indifferent about the upcoming change to the damage modifier attached to the ability in U47, but I would recommend reverting the change to the max stacks back to 5, or perhaps 6 if the goal is to provide some leeway for firing it in PVE.

3) Animal Companions - I think this skill line is in a reasonable spot, providing some great passives as well as active abilities. There is one outlier I think needs to be adjusted though, and that is the Blue betty/bull netch. These skills are free, give 250 equivalent regen in their morphs, they purge an effect every 5 seconds or provide a damage buff if they don't purge, and they proc a heal on re-cast/expiration. The skill is giving too much as a free ability. One of the following adjustments should be made, primarily so the skill can no longer be "spammed" to proc a free heal + purge every global cooldown

• Give it a small cost, perhaps in the 800-1,000 resource range.
• Or make it so that the first purge does not occur on cast, instead happening after 5 seconds.

4) Elemental susceptibility - This one isn't exactly subclassing related and I was hesitant to mention it as there are many balance issues in PVP that have existed for a long time prior to subclassing, but this skill has been so strong for so long. A few patches ago the nightblade skill "piercing mark" was given a cost as it was apparently "too strong" - but ele susc is drastically stronger and is available to every class, while performing the same core function as mark. One of the following things should happen.

• Give it a cost. Probably in the 1,800-2,000 magicka range.
• Keep it free, but make it only apply the status effects on cast, instead of repeatedly applying them for free throughout the duration.
• Give it a smaller cost in the 800-1,000 magicka range, but have it now apply one of the 3 elemental status effects at random throughout the duration.

I'm late to the subclassing party on console. Still leveling up skill lines on characters, haven't tried the new builds in PvP yet.
How has the meta shifted back to burst damage? Is there some reason I cannot use DoT damage anymore?

DoT builds aren't entirely gone, but there's two main things that happened to make burst more prevalent than DoTs.

1) Burst damage went way up, because now everyone can combine 2 different classes' burst abilities. Curse, Blastbones, Shalks, Tentacular, PoTL, Spec Bow; take your pick. Combining the passives of two offensive lines also increased damage.

2) More people are running purges. Tons of people have Netch, and a lot of people are running Restoring Light.

DoTs are still pretty good, just not as prevalent.