Battlegrounds. Some thoughts (none too happy ones :( )

MotherOfMoss

It's been a while now since the BG overhaul, and I have a new BG character who I've been test driving for a few weeks. I like my build, it's probably my best yet, but... the battlegrounds are just not there.

I play the 8v8s exclusively, so what I write here may not apply to the 4v4s, or it may. I'll let someone else be the judge of that.

First off, the team balance is near-consistently horrifying. You can usually tell within the first few seconds of a game which team is going to win and which is just going to have a bad time. Interestingly, while I was still levelling my new character and playing in the below 50 BGs, this was not nearly as much of an issue! There were often nice, close matches, and next to none of those goofy experiences where someone just destroys your healthbar in half a heartbeat. It was a lot more fun! I'd take the below 50 BG experience any day of the week, but sadly I am cp2000+ again now and there's no going back. I dearly hope something can be done about the balance, though I cannot suggest anything concrete. It's just wildly not working.

Secondly, as the Crazy King weekend is halfway now, instead of enjoying getting to play one of my favourite game modes non-stop, I wish it would be over already. These have been some of the most violent flag games I've been in – the "every game mode is deathmatch and BGs are about the violence" types are there, deprived of their deathmatches for several days on end. They're bored and taking it out on me. Sometimes that works out when the opponent is so busy farming kills they forget to cap the flags, and your team wins despite being offensively outmatched. But usually it's just a frustrating experience of deathmatch with flags, where the team with the bigger guns wins, not the team that tries to read the game and play it too. Maybe consider not having these weekends? I'm not sure they're helping.

And then, the "every game mode is deathmatch" issue. I understand that somewhere in distant history there used to be separate queues for different game modes, and it didn't work because the non-deathmatch modes had such low populations. I can appreciate this, but rather than force the DM fanciers to play flag and ball to maintain population, OR simply remove all other game modes as also was done at some point, maybe the queue could be fine-tuned a bit? For instance, let players opt out of one or two modes. This would let the DM lovers have more DM and maybe play the objective in the other modes a bit more. (And, it would let me opt out of relic, heh.) I don't mind playing DM now and then; what I dislike is not actually being able to play something else when something else comes up.

And finally, there's that one very small map in the High Isle style. That map does not fit 16 players, and it is the worst offender in the "deathmatch with flags" category. It takes too long for extra flags to spawn, there is no room to manoeuvre and absolutely no strategic angle to play. It's just "brute force wins". Please drop it from the 8v8s entirely, or restrict it to game modes which it supports in some way. Like deathmatch.

Edited out some typos.

Urzigurumash

Try 4v4, why not? For a PvPer 8v8s are just a way to have some fun mashing potatoes or try out a new build. Sounds like you care about competition so try the mode better suited to it. Theoretically the MMR in that mode will weed out people who dont play to win, that system should treat them like what they are: losers.

MotherOfMoss

Well that's a bit harsh

I don't play the 4v4s because 1) I get scared when something is called competitive, 2) the smaller team size takes it even further from the 4v4v4s that I enjoyed so much, and 3) despite my best efforts, I am squishy and do tend to die more than I like, and that does not work with the 4v4 deathmatch respawning. I don't want to drag my team down with me, and if you play the 4v4s you really can't leave a game.

Besides, the 8v8s being the casual mode doesn't mean it's okay they're not balanced!

Urzigurumash

Tank up. Reject the popular ethos that there is only virtue in playing squishily, of course most PvPers say such things, they want easy victims!

Dock01

This isn’t real PvP. Roles matter, and it's super random, healers are necessary for sustain. But here, you won’t get one 99% of the time. Self-healing isn’t enough when four people are on you. The ones surviving that are clearly exploiting something cause they refuse to explain it. Either way, it's nothing to get serious about the design itself is beyond flawed

PVE Roles are important
pvp= nope

backwards logic lmao

Chrisilis

I concur, team balance is near-consistently horrifying. That being said theres no indication thats going to change any time soon, if ever. For every "balanced" match theres 50 one sided matches. Games that come down to the wire, the last second, neck in neck to the finish line are so rare that when one does happen you better enjoy it cus you might not see another one for a long long time.

I have noticed tho that people dont seem that concerned about dying anymore (in 8v8, 4v4 still very much cares). I remember in 4v4v4 people getting hazed because they died 3-4-5 times. Now? Its not unusual to see teams where every player has 10 or more deaths. In really bad games you'll see 10-20-25 deaths on players and nobody says anything anymore or really even bats an eye because thats just how it is now. Ive seen teams where every member had 20 deaths and they still won the game despite getting farmed because they still jumped down and managed to get a flag before they got one shotted or 5v1d.

Personally, I find it very weird that I can go 0-10 in one match and then 15-0 in literally the next match. Whatever. This is just how it is now. Its still fun (not as fun as 4v4v4 imho) but fun enough even w/ the lack of balance. You just gotta get used to the fact that in this new normal your either the farmer or the farmee or as a friend of mine put it, "Sometimes youre the windshield and sometimes youre the bug"

Thumbless_Bot

Chrisilis wrote: »

I concur, team balance is near-consistently horrifying. That being said theres no indication thats going to change any time soon, if ever. For every "balanced" match theres 50 one sided matches. Games that come down to the wire, the last second, neck in neck to the finish line are so rare that when one does happen you better enjoy it cus you might not see another one for a long long time.

I have noticed tho that people dont seem that concerned about dying anymore (in 8v8, 4v4 still very much cares). I remember in 4v4v4 people getting hazed because they died 3-4-5 times. Now? Its not unusual to see teams where every player has 10 or more deaths. In really bad games you'll see 10-20-25 deaths on players and nobody says anything anymore or really even bats an eye because thats just how it is now. Ive seen teams where every member had 20 deaths and they still won the game despite getting farmed because they still jumped down and managed to get a flag before they got one shotted or 5v1d.

Personally, I find it very weird that I can go 0-10 in one match and then 15-0 in literally the next match. Whatever. This is just how it is now. Its still fun (not as fun as 4v4v4 imho) but fun enough even w/ the lack of balance. You just gotta get used to the fact that in this new normal your either the farmer or the farmee or as a friend of mine put it, "Sometimes youre the windshield and sometimes your the bug"

This chaos removes the incentive to be better. It removes the enjoyment of battlegrounds almost completely. It removes all strategy.

You can walk into a bg with no weapons and white armor and that will have zero impact on the outcome of the game. It terrible.

After the latest zos stream I think this is their intention and they have succeeded.

In short, the game is not for me any more.

Chrisilis

Sorry to hear that @Thumbless_Bot but, totally understandable. Youre absolutley right, in the name of making Bg's more accessible to the gen pop they kinda ruined what made Bg's special, no arguments here. See, Im not against PvE'ers in battlegrounds, Im all for everyone trying out every aspect of the game, especially this one since the more the merrier. But I miss the days of people wanting to compete and not just get their daily in or some transmutes. I miss there being the expectation of competence. I miss new players wanting to get better.

Its all been said before. I could go on but Ive already said it a dozen ways on a dozen threads and nothings changed. So if you have to go, Vaya con Dios, Senor. Stop back in if they ever get around to a three team weekend