Why Patch 47 will hit casual gamers the hardest.

DreamyLu

I'm a casual gamer, chilling in the game and rarely fighting. I have the same skill bar since ever and don't sub-class, simply because I lack the interest.
I generally wasn't "hit" by anything up to now and don't think that next patch will be different.

One person was right in an earlier reply: "casual" players cover an enormous variety of players. It goes from those who don't fight (so don't "see" anything of the changes touching skills), up to those who fight including end game content, the same way than non-casual (those will be impacted by the changes).

Generally, the players who will be concerned by next patch are all those who are interested in fighting and skill set up. Casual or not casual doesn't matter.

NoSoup

DreamyLu wrote: »

I'm a casual gamer, chilling in the game and rarely fighting. I have the same skill bar since ever and don't sub-class, simply because I lack the interest.
I generally wasn't "hit" by anything up to now and don't think that next patch will be different.

One person was right in an earlier reply: "casual" players cover an enormous variety of players. It goes from those who don't fight (so don't "see" anything of the changes touching skills), up to those who fight including end game content, the same way than non-casual (those will be impacted by the changes).

Generally, the players who will be concerned by next patch are all those who are interested in fighting and skill set up. Casual or not casual doesn't matter.

Very valid. Like, I consider myself casual. On average I play about 6 hours a week and frequently take a few week long breaks from the game but there's no content I find myself locked out of.....

SolarRune

For me it feels like constant headless chicken-isms. It's always from one extreme to the other, and feels to many players like it is unplanned.

For example, if these changes were the first step to it being something like named buffs/debuffs come from class passives, but unique ones will come from armor - I think that would actually be a good direction of travel, however it can't really be the plan given the PoE nerf last patch. And we have had no comms in that space.

With u46, I was seeing people willing to give vet trials (or vet runners give HM) more of a go - its great growing the vet/hm trial community. But we are heading back into a scenario i was hoping not to see again, similar to what happened with oakensoul. You have given people the opportunity to do some new stuff and they have enjoyed it but in their eyes it is effectively taking it away a patch later. I am seeing players say they are giving up/taking a break/going into maintenence mode because they feel they can't continue playing what to them is the new area of the game they are enjoying.

EldarOfSuburbia

Not everyone who is not "casual" is fully into subclassing. I would say I'm not "casual", probably a step or two above that (whatever that means), and I've barely scratched it. It's a hefty grind to train up those skill lines, and not everyone has the time to devote to that. (Mostly, we're doing daily writs on 10+ toons, so we are grinding, but in a different way. I digress.)

I am seeing rumbling and grumbling from some guildies about what's coming; in particular a couple who prefer 1-bar builds because of accessibility issues, they have difficulty with bar swapping, and having to re-intro it for builds is going to sap their enjoyment of the game and they feel they won't be able to participate in some content we run.

Elvenheart

EldarOfSuburbia wrote: »

Not everyone who is not "casual" is fully into subclassing. I would say I'm not "casual", probably a step or two above that (whatever that means), and I've barely scratched it. It's a hefty grind to train up those skill lines, and not everyone has the time to devote to that. (Mostly, we're doing daily writs on 10+ toons, so we are grinding, but in a different way. I digress.)

I am seeing rumbling and grumbling from some guildies about what's coming; in particular a couple who prefer 1-bar builds because of accessibility issues, they have difficulty with bar swapping, and having to re-intro it for builds is going to sap their enjoyment of the game and they feel they won't be able to participate in some content we run.

Is something happening in Update 47 that will make Oakensoul builds obsolete? My one bar Oakensoul pure class pet sorcerer I use for IA and for soloing normal dungeons is quite happy right now. I don’t want him to get upset. 🙂

Mojey87

in my opinion i wasnt happy about the sub classing to begin with, basically each class uniqueness been taken away and every character became a base to select what skill line to mix and match, and with "subclassing" the wave of nerfs started which made every base class almost useless in term of level of difficulty the new content is.
at this stage lot of gears became worthless/useless and need to farm for the new gear to stay relevant to play in certain VET content.
im sure the nerfs of classes, gears will not stop here until basically all players will lose faith in the game and quit, which im thinking of doing so as rebuilding characters every two months is not that fun.

but i have one question, why targeting the best skills and gears to nerf them instead of elevating others to be more appealing to players!!!

Joy_Division

Desiato wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

I'm completely disgusted with the fact that this is ending in a templar nerf so quickly when it finally had some power behind it again. That didnt last long at all.

Honestly, in the right hands, Templar has been lowkey op since eric wrobel gave it the 'house' and subclassing pretty much proved that.

So many community narratives are completely false. Which is reflective of real life these days.

Someone is going to read the OP and spread "30% damage nerf" as fact, even though it's completely wrong.

Sorry but I don't think you have the facts. Everyone knows templar was nerfed to death in PVP and barely any one played it until it was buffed again. Now it's getting nerfs it don't deserve. Stop spreading false info. It hasn't been OP since it got nerfed.

Well, you can see for yourself that two of the three skill lines are considered among the top dps skill lines and the 3rd is also ranked very high for supports.

In top end PVE, it has been a top parse class in content for a while. If someone can weave well, it is extremely strong.

In PVP, I'll quote one of the better and well known PVP Templar mains for the past 10 years: "decent templars only die if we want to." One of the more popular PVP streamers mainly 1vx'd using Templar or Warden prior to subclassing.

For casual players, puncturing sweep is pretty OP for overland! It's what I use on my normal dungeon/base game vet parse tanks that do 40k+ dps while buffing the group and doing all the other tank stuff. No healer necessary.

Pretty much everyone thinks their main class is worse than it actually is.

Templar wasnt bad when Wrobel gave us the house. What we didnt like was class derived its strengths from standing in one spot (and got weaker the moment you moved). It took us years to convince ZOS to change Rune, for example, to just be a buff rather than only work standing in a house.

The jabs change was a pretty hefty nerf for PVP because you only got 3 hits instead of 4. Hence the emergence of the rangeplar. It was effective spec, but not what most of us signed up to play. Only a really good player could make a jabplar work in a competitive setting, and it said more about the skill of the player than the strength of the build.

Restoring Light and aedric Spear got significant buffs for subclasssing update, which is why those lines are popular. If subclassing came U42, Templar lines would be noticably less sought.

Desiato

u45 templar in a support set:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CguWxrC9hAY

He wasn't the top parser in the group, but...



It's not an outlier. Templar has been popular among decent trial weavers for at least as long as I've been in trials. (about 14-15 months)

And sure, PVP Templar required staying in the house, but with sustain being so easy for so long, the house is easy to move around. I say required only because everyone can live there now.

Adaarye

Stamicka wrote: »

Subclassing as a whole is really bad for casual players or new players looking to get into PvP or endgame PvE.

It adds another layer of complexity when it comes to making a build, which is already way more complex than it once was.

The power gap and the knowledge gap keeps growing as more build customization is allowed. I genuinely don’t know how a new player would make sense of the 100s of sets in the game, skill line combinations, scribing, traits, CP, and many other build elements and interactions without watching YouTube.

It’s an accessibility issue and it keeps PvP and endgame PvE communities small with low entry rates and poor retention. A properly specced player is literally like an emperor compared to a max leveled newer player doing their own thing.

ZOS is approaching accessibility the complete wrong way and they just don’t get it.

Wait until new players make their build, are happy with it, and then BOOM! Down comes the nerf hammer. Rinse and repeat for as many times as a player has before they realize expecting that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is insanity.

Don't forget farming for the latest and greatest gear. Same thing. Players love it and then its nerfed.
Here goes the cycle again. And yes this cycle is anything but accessible.

Ragnarok0130

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Patch 46 buffed the endgamers in PvE and PvP but had no effect on the players who didn't subclass.

I'll take "Things that never happened" for $5000 Alex". Pure classes were at a distinct disadvantage and power loss in the end game after U46.

I stated before U46 like others here that multiclassing adds added complexity widening the knowledge and hence power gap between those who participate in the end game and those who don't. Given the trivial nature of overland I'm sure most casuals won't notice much of a difference in U47 but let's not act like pure classes are untouched when the PTS forum shows otherwise.You can't nerf skills to compensate for OP multiclassing skill combinations and synergies without affecting those still running those skills in their pure classes.

katanagirl1

twisttop138 wrote: »

I see another thread where we try to play the us vs them game. There is no set in stone casual player. As the officer of a social casual guild, though I myself am a vet and hm content guy, I have had the opportunity to meet many self styled casual players who enjoy many many facets of ESO. I know of casual grandmas who are very very aware of their gear and DPS number and actively try to improve it. Is she not casual cause she wants her heavy attack Sorc to hit hard for our team runs for worm wizard? She's not the only one. On the flip side would be the many vet and hm raiders I know that spend boat loads of money to make their toon look good or spend hours on their house. Me included. I also do every quest. Stop with this "we're" largest player base stuff. Everyone crosses everyone else's street and we should act like it, changes to the game that are harmful hurt everyone.

I'm of the opinion that we didn't ask for subclassing but it's here. ZOS said they were fine with the power creep so we set about having a good time. The thing we *told* you was going to happen? It happened. Not even one patch later the flip around and wanna ruin the fun. Was grim focus over tuned for subclasses? Oh hell yes. But they knew it was going to be and let it go. Why one patch later are they concerned?

I’m genuinely curious, why is the grandma in your scenario considered casual? If she has a build and tries to improve her dps, that excludes her from the casual group in my description. Do you have a term for middle ground to separate them out from super sweaty groups that she would fit in?

Also, why would score pushers who do housing be considered casual, if that is what you are implying? To me that is just engaging in a casual activity, not making them a casual player.

EDIT: I guess that wasn’t quite what I wanted to say. What category do you place the dungeon group players who stand at extreme range and only light or heavy attack, because they are fearful of damage and have a mishmash of gear for a build? I can’t put them into the casual group if your hypothetical grandma is in that group.