Why are they always against fun and powercreep in an mmorpg?

baconaura

Like one of the main points of progressing and leveling up in an mmorpg is to be more powerful overtime, and enjoy that powercreep with older content. All this constant nerfing is just not fun, and really kills the enjoyment of the game, and is definitely not play how you want.

Alot of these changes dont even make sense, you have nerfs one update and buffs another that go back and forth that just confuses and pisses off players with the constant changes for no reason, not to mention the ever growing graveyard of sets. There is a serious disconnect with what players are actually doing, and trying to optimize against a spreadsheet, and making everything bland. it really feels like eventually we'll just be left with something hollow like vengence pve, where we have 8 classes and 3 roles to choose from, all so that spreadsheet can be optimized, but insanely boring.

Players dont want damage sponge bosses for the sake of prolonging a fight, or invuln phases where nothing is happening. Players want to play and experience interesting and challenging mechanics. like how many players never get to experience interesting mechanics like bahsei hm which is a 4 year old trial, and lose out on experiencing that interesting fight?

The developers are always trying to target that top 0.1% of players that are coordinated and optimized enough to just skip through certain mechanics, but it is such an incredibly small # of players that these nerfs probably wont affect them much anyways, but has huge dampening effect on the remaining playerbase which makes the game less fun.

Like players getting a trifecta, who cares if they do it fast? thats the whole point of the leaderboard where they compete with other teams. Why stop players from optimizing? it's like people who speedrun games, are you going to totally update and change your game to make speedrunners take longer that has a negative effect on 99% of your players? or let them speedrun and compete amonst themselves? It's like they have some irrational hate against player skill, and want to keep it artificially dumbed down for some reason.

Hamiltonmath

This is exactly correct. There absolutely NEEDS to be power creep because the content is getting harder. Can you imagine a group trying to complete VOC HM 5 years ago?!? What needs to happen is to get a ton of these garbage sets to become useful. Stop gatekeeping our fun.

valenwood_vegan

I mean, nerfs and adjustments are one thing... but the part I think a lot of us can't stand is they were all excited about it one patch ago. Just weeks ago. They stated they were happy with the level of power being added. Despite tons of reasonable PTS feedback. And now it's just shocking and totally unintended that people are creating some powerful builds apparently.

It's like they hold a lottery and a different person takes over the combat changes every cycle.

MincMincMinc

"all that nerfing"

Brother we just went from one damage skill line to 3

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

This is exactly correct. There absolutely NEEDS to be power creep because the content is getting harder. Can you imagine a group trying to complete VOC HM 5 years ago?!? What needs to happen is to get a ton of these garbage sets to become useful. Stop gatekeeping our fun.

No..... The dungeons follow the power creep, not the other way around. Zos has to release sets so people buy dlc. Those sets have to be stronger than previous sets so they are purchased and obtained. The better sets = better damage, thus new dungeons have to compensate. Those new dungeons then have the next layer of gear and the cycle continues.

---

Game wise players would ideally want everything to be balanced, but in reality the game wouldnt stay funded if no new sets were released.

tomofhyrule

This is implying that more damage = fun, which is not always the case. After all, if it was more fun to kill things faster and with fewer mechanics, then why are so many people complaining about how easy overland is?

Fun is practicing and getting better over time. Not someone handing you a trophy on a silver platter.

Sure, power creep is a thing, but it should be a little bit at a time. When we have a circumstance where power goes up by like 20-50% in a single patch, that's the opposite of fun. That means that's too much too fast, and it absolutely never should have happened that much.
Not to mention that that requires a very specific setup too. It's no fun at all if the game says "hey, you need to stop playing the way you want and only play this one specific way or else your damage is in the gutter."

Hamiltonmath

MincMincMinc wrote: »

"all that nerfing"

Brother we just went from one damage skill line to 3

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

This is exactly correct. There absolutely NEEDS to be power creep because the content is getting harder. Can you imagine a group trying to complete VOC HM 5 years ago?!? What needs to happen is to get a ton of these garbage sets to become useful. Stop gatekeeping our fun.

No..... The dungeons follow the power creep, not the other way around. Zos has to release sets so people buy dlc. Those sets have to be stronger than previous sets so they are purchased and obtained. The better sets = better damage, thus new dungeons have to compensate. Those new dungeons then have the next layer of gear and the cycle continues.

---

Game wise players would ideally want everything to be balanced, but in reality the game wouldnt stay funded if no new sets were released.

I agree with that, but I would ALSO like to see old irrelevant sets become used, too.

MincMincMinc

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

"all that nerfing"

Brother we just went from one damage skill line to 3

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

This is exactly correct. There absolutely NEEDS to be power creep because the content is getting harder. Can you imagine a group trying to complete VOC HM 5 years ago?!? What needs to happen is to get a ton of these garbage sets to become useful. Stop gatekeeping our fun.

No..... The dungeons follow the power creep, not the other way around. Zos has to release sets so people buy dlc. Those sets have to be stronger than previous sets so they are purchased and obtained. The better sets = better damage, thus new dungeons have to compensate. Those new dungeons then have the next layer of gear and the cycle continues.

---

Game wise players would ideally want everything to be balanced, but in reality the game wouldnt stay funded if no new sets were released.

I agree with that, but I would ALSO like to see old irrelevant sets become used, too.

Agreed back at ya. Way back when they nerfed old sets from the WD/SD meta that had their own playstyle in situations. Like old Briar, Ravager, 7th, fury. Now adays even if these sets were brought back to their glory before the designs were ruined they would be questionable by comparison.

Somehow we said these wd sets were bad, but then allowed 100% uptime pen and % damage source sets to be available with far higher values.

Renato90085

tomofhyrule wrote: »

This is implying that more damage = fun, which is not always the case. After all, if it was more fun to kill things faster and with fewer mechanics, then why are so many people complaining about how easy overland is?

Fun is practicing and getting better over time. Not someone handing you a trophy on a silver platter.

Sure, power creep is a thing, but it should be a little bit at a time. When we have a circumstance where power goes up by like 20-50% in a single patch, that's the opposite of fun. That means that's too much too fast, and it absolutely never should have happened that much.
Not to mention that that requires a very specific setup too. It's no fun at all if the game says "hey, you need to stop playing the way you want and only play this one specific way or else your damage is in the gutter."

Zos spend 8 year add 30k power creep in game(U22-U45) but 1 patch(3week pts)add more 60k is a real crazy thing but someone don’t think so

baconaura

tomofhyrule wrote: »

This is implying that more damage = fun, which is not always the case. After all, if it was more fun to kill things faster and with fewer mechanics, then why are so many people complaining about how easy overland is?

Fun is practicing and getting better over time. Not someone handing you a trophy on a silver platter.

The majority of players agree that Overland content is far too easy, not because the enemies are weak, but because there’s a complete lack of engaging mechanics. It’s just mindless plowing through trash mobs. Story-driven boss encounters should at least have mechanics on par with dungeon bosses. We don’t need DPS checks to make content fun or challenging; just interesting, thoughtful mechanics that are engaging. Players don’t want to fight damage sponges or sit around during invulnerability phases. They want active, engaging fights that require more than just damage.

Most players aren’t part of the top-tier trifecta teams the devs seem to be balancing around. Constantly increasing power and then nerfing it every patch only makes it harder for most prog groups to make progress. That pushes players away from endgame content and continues to shrink an already small community.

And let’s be honest: no serious endgame players care if others are clearing old content more easily. The people who complain about others getting clear without “earning it” are just gatekeeping. No one’s losing sleep over someone else completing an 8-year-old trial on HM. And if they were competitive, there are the leaderboards and esologs if you're comparing dps/hps/fight times for individuals.

What frustrates me and players is when devs ignore clear PTS feedback warnings like, “Hey, these changes are a huge power jump, are you sure about this?” and then rush changes into the game anyway, only to backtrack with sudden nerfs. It sends the message that there's no clear direction. If power creep is here, then own it. Embrace it. Give us harder content that matches the new power levels, instead of penalizing players for adapting to the tools we were given.

Estin

Damage was fine prior to multiclassing. In fact, I would say that it was too high with how easy it was to deal damage on some classes, namely arcanist. Multiclassing brought in a huge amount of powercreep that shouldn't have entered the game. It's right to nerf/balance it, but ZOS is doing it in all the wrong ways. They should have never released multiclassing in the state it was introduced, and their method of nerfing skills/passives flat across the board instead of only when multiclassed is going to do far more damage to the game than keeping the insane powercreep that was introduced. The nerfs are heavy handed, and are only going to get more heavy with each new patch unless ZOS does the right thing and properly introduces separate balancing when multiclassed, because even the casual players are beginning to feel the weight of these nerfs that were only meant to target the few outlier combos. Maybe they can do so now that they have nothing else distracting them from ESO.