Arcanist banner changes and Tome-Bearer's Inspiration

GeneralGrundmann · July 9

Arcanist banner changes

"Banner Bearer: Adjusted the combination effect of the Class Mastery script as an Arcanist with this Grimoire. *This effect will now only generate a Crux if you have no Crux active*."

Tome-Bearer's Inspiration

"Etch a series of runes onto your weapon that pulse with power once every 5 seconds. Each pulse enhances your class abilities, and striking an enemy with one deals an additional 1161 Magic Damage and *generates Crux if you have none*. While slotted on either ability bar, gain Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%."

If I read this correctly, it's the same effect trigger?

So it's either banner or Tome-Bearer's inspiration, at least for generating crux?

Renato90085 · July 9

Tome-Bearer's inspiration have magic dmg
banner can swap other scribe page..

GeneralGrundmann · July 9

Wanted to talk only over the crux generation part, but yeah, what you have written is obviously true.

robpr · July 9

Yes, they both exclude each other for Crux generation, but you still want the Tome-Bearer for the damage it does and passive Brutality/Sorcery, its pretty solid skill you simply cannot pass.

So yeah, in this form the class script is essentially dead.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 9

This is one of the most mind boggingly silly changes I've ever seen.

Why on earth would you make it do the same thing as something you literally reference in the developer comment? That means that Banner's class script for Arcanist literally does nothing, as not a single Arcanist with more than 2 hours on the game will drop Tome Bearer.

Cooperharley · July 9

Correct.

The change they made makes use of the arcanist class script dead entirely. Not a well thought out change, but likely a placeholder since they probably didn’t know what to do. Changing up banner is the right thing, but I doubt (could be copium) this is their intended long term change. At least I sure hope not..

kevkj · July 9

Me when I'm running out of time on an exam and just write an answer to make sure it's not blank.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 9

This change means that arcs who exclusively gained crux via scribing skills e.g. Warding Burst / Warding Contingency for shield healers will no longer be able to generate 3 crux and are now forced to use class based crux generators which isn't great. Apparently that's not how it works for the other scribing spells

It would be better to change inspiration rather than the class mastery.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 9

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

This change means that arcs who exclusively gained crux via scribing skills e.g. Warding Burst / Warding Contingency for shield healers will no longer be able to generate 3 crux and are now forced to use class based crux generators which isn't great.

It would be better to change inspiration rather than the class mastery.

That's not what this means. Only Banner's class script changed; instead of Banner passively generating a crux once every 5 seconds, it generates a crux whenever you don't have any crux.

The other scribe skills still generate a crux every cast.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

This change means that arcs who exclusively gained crux via scribing skills e.g. Warding Burst / Warding Contingency for shield healers will no longer be able to generate 3 crux and are now forced to use class based crux generators which isn't great.

It would be better to change inspiration rather than the class mastery.

That's not what this means. Only Banner's class script changed; instead of Banner passively generating a crux once every 5 seconds, it generates a crux whenever you don't have any crux.

The other scribe skills still generate a crux every cast.

Hmm ok I assumed they changed the class script fully based on the way it was posted but if thats not the case thats fine that its just affecting banner. If not a little weird that its such a big change.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 9

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

This change means that arcs who exclusively gained crux via scribing skills e.g. Warding Burst / Warding Contingency for shield healers will no longer be able to generate 3 crux and are now forced to use class based crux generators which isn't great.

It would be better to change inspiration rather than the class mastery.

That's not what this means. Only Banner's class script changed; instead of Banner passively generating a crux once every 5 seconds, it generates a crux whenever you don't have any crux.

The other scribe skills still generate a crux every cast.

Hmm ok I assumed they changed the class script fully based on the way it was posted but if thats not the case thats fine that its just affecting banner. If not a little weird that its such a big change.

It's still an awful change, because Arcanists will already generate a crux if they have none due to Tome Bearer. That means if you're running Herald of the Tome, Banner Bearer's class script does nothing.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

This change means that arcs who exclusively gained crux via scribing skills e.g. Warding Burst / Warding Contingency for shield healers will no longer be able to generate 3 crux and are now forced to use class based crux generators which isn't great.

It would be better to change inspiration rather than the class mastery.

That's not what this means. Only Banner's class script changed; instead of Banner passively generating a crux once every 5 seconds, it generates a crux whenever you don't have any crux.

The other scribe skills still generate a crux every cast.

Hmm ok I assumed they changed the class script fully based on the way it was posted but if thats not the case thats fine that its just affecting banner. If not a little weird that its such a big change.

It's still an awful change, because Arcanists will already generate a crux if they have none due to Tome Bearer. That means if you're running Herald of the Tome, Banner Bearer's class script does nothing.

Yes for one overperforming spec it removes the need to be an arcanist base which is kinda nice. Would it be better for them to adjust inspiration to remove the crux generation instead and leave the class script alone?

CameraBeardThePirate · July 9

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

This change means that arcs who exclusively gained crux via scribing skills e.g. Warding Burst / Warding Contingency for shield healers will no longer be able to generate 3 crux and are now forced to use class based crux generators which isn't great.

It would be better to change inspiration rather than the class mastery.

That's not what this means. Only Banner's class script changed; instead of Banner passively generating a crux once every 5 seconds, it generates a crux whenever you don't have any crux.

The other scribe skills still generate a crux every cast.

Hmm ok I assumed they changed the class script fully based on the way it was posted but if thats not the case thats fine that its just affecting banner. If not a little weird that its such a big change.

It's still an awful change, because Arcanists will already generate a crux if they have none due to Tome Bearer. That means if you're running Herald of the Tome, Banner Bearer's class script does nothing.

Yes for one overperforming spec it removes the need to be an arcanist base which is kinda nice. Would it be better for them to adjust inspiration to remove the crux generation instead and leave the class script alone?

There's literally no reason to adjust Tome Bearer's Inspiration. The class script on Banner was overperforming, but that doesn't mean they should have deleted it from the game.

All they needed to do was tone down the crux gen it gives, not make it useless. Reduce the cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 or 10 seconds and the problem is solved.

Instead they took their classic sledgehammer approach to balancing and deleted it from the game.

YandereGirlfriend · July 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

This change means that arcs who exclusively gained crux via scribing skills e.g. Warding Burst / Warding Contingency for shield healers will no longer be able to generate 3 crux and are now forced to use class based crux generators which isn't great.

It would be better to change inspiration rather than the class mastery.

That's not what this means. Only Banner's class script changed; instead of Banner passively generating a crux once every 5 seconds, it generates a crux whenever you don't have any crux.

The other scribe skills still generate a crux every cast.

Hmm ok I assumed they changed the class script fully based on the way it was posted but if thats not the case thats fine that its just affecting banner. If not a little weird that its such a big change.

It's still an awful change, because Arcanists will already generate a crux if they have none due to Tome Bearer. That means if you're running Herald of the Tome, Banner Bearer's class script does nothing.

Yes for one overperforming spec it removes the need to be an arcanist base which is kinda nice. Would it be better for them to adjust inspiration to remove the crux generation instead and leave the class script alone?

There's literally no reason to adjust Tome Bearer's Inspiration. The class script on Banner was overperforming, but that doesn't mean they should have deleted it from the game.

All they needed to do was tone down the crux gen it gives, not make it useless. Reduce the cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 or 10 seconds and the problem is solved.

Instead they took their classic sledgehammer approach to balancing and deleted it from the game.

Other classes with useless class scripts to Arcanist mains: "First time, eh?"

Why is passive Crux generation a thing at all, though? Crux-empowered casts were clearly meant to be a special mechanic not just the default state of being for Arcanists. When Arcanists are beaming like 75% of their time on target there are already huge things going wrong with the concept of Crux.

An alternative concept for Banner could be that it further enhances your Crux-powered abilities by an arbitrary percentage. So your actual abilities are more powerful and special to use but not something that you can simply spam as the situation is today.

Raz415 · July 9

Cooperharley wrote: »

Correct.

The change they made makes use of the arcanist class script dead entirely. Not a well thought out change, but likely a placeholder since they probably didn’t know what to do. Changing up banner is the right thing, but I doubt (could be copium) this is their intended long term change. At least I sure hope not..

How many years do you think ZOS needs to come up with a replacement effect?

CameraBeardThePirate · July 9

Raz415 wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Correct.

The change they made makes use of the arcanist class script dead entirely. Not a well thought out change, but likely a placeholder since they probably didn’t know what to do. Changing up banner is the right thing, but I doubt (could be copium) this is their intended long term change. At least I sure hope not..

How many years do you think ZOS needs to come up with a replacement effect?

Friendly reminder to all the people hoping that this effect is a placeholder:

The devs flat out stated that Grave Lord's Sacrifice wasn't quite where they wanted it to be. They've not updated it since, except to literally take away an effect it had.

In ZOS' eyes, "placeholder" = permanent.

kevkj · July 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Raz415 wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Correct.

The change they made makes use of the arcanist class script dead entirely. Not a well thought out change, but likely a placeholder since they probably didn’t know what to do. Changing up banner is the right thing, but I doubt (could be copium) this is their intended long term change. At least I sure hope not..

How many years do you think ZOS needs to come up with a replacement effect?

Friendly reminder to all the people hoping that this effect is a placeholder:

The devs flat out stated that Grave Lord's Sacrifice wasn't quite where they wanted it to be. They've not updated it since, except to literally take away an effect it had.

In ZOS' eyes, "placeholder" = permanent.

The Jira ticket has already been marked as resolved.

Evil_Rurouni · July 9

There's something that you're all forgetting:

Not every arcanist is a DPS.

An arcanist healer or tank could still get use out of the class script to get crux while buffing other nearby players with the banner.
Especially so if they multiclassed away the dps skill line to gain skills and passive more useful to their group role.

Highly niche, and unlikely to be worth the bar space needed fot the banner, but not useless.

CaptainRele · July 10

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

An arcanist healer or tank could still get use out of the class script to get crux while buffing other nearby players with the banner.

they could get a single crux. even in the situation where someone could (poorly) decide as a healer or tank they should be running banner, they're getting almost nothing out of it for crux generation. i think that level of niche-ness and utility takes it so far down in usefulness it shouldnt even be relevant.

francesinhalover · July 10

a better rework will come in the future, but atm this is needed. because it was making arcanist meggaaa overpowered.

Evil_Rurouni · July 10

CaptainRele wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

An arcanist healer or tank could still get use out of the class script to get crux while buffing other nearby players with the banner.

they could get a single crux. even in the situation where someone could (poorly) decide as a healer or tank they should be running banner, they're getting almost nothing out of it for crux generation. i think that level of niche-ness and utility takes it so far down in usefulness it shouldnt even be relevant.

Agreed that its a LOUSY build option.
Thats why I said: "Highly niche, and unlikely to be worth the bar space needed fot the banner, but not useless."

However, a lot of that lousyness is more due to banner itself not really working very well as a group buffing option than the script.

Scribing itelf is underwhelming.
Arcanist's class script just got brought down to the level of mediocrity almost all of the other options have been at since day 1.

Whole system needs a buff or rework if ZoS want to make the skills worth the bar space.

AmishDefector · July 10

GeneralGrundmann wrote: »

Arcanist banner changes

"Banner Bearer: Adjusted the combination effect of the Class Mastery script as an Arcanist with this Grimoire. *This effect will now only generate a Crux if you have no Crux active*."

Tome-Bearer's Inspiration

"Etch a series of runes onto your weapon that pulse with power once every 5 seconds. Each pulse enhances your class abilities, and striking an enemy with one deals an additional 1161 Magic Damage and *generates Crux if you have none*. While slotted on either ability bar, gain Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%."

If I read this correctly, it's the same effect trigger?

So it's either banner or Tome-Bearer's inspiration, at least for generating crux?

Yeah. And since youll never unslot inspired scholarship the class mastery is pointless. And since it was the only class mastery being used they should probably just remove class mastery.

Had a thought maybe make the class masteries more powerful but only if you dont subclass.

MashmalloMan · July 10

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

This change means that arcs who exclusively gained crux via scribing skills e.g. Warding Burst / Warding Contingency for shield healers will no longer be able to generate 3 crux and are now forced to use class based crux generators which isn't great.

It would be better to change inspiration rather than the class mastery.

That's not what this means. Only Banner's class script changed; instead of Banner passively generating a crux once every 5 seconds, it generates a crux whenever you don't have any crux.

The other scribe skills still generate a crux every cast.

Hmm ok I assumed they changed the class script fully based on the way it was posted but if thats not the case thats fine that its just affecting banner. If not a little weird that its such a big change.

It's still an awful change, because Arcanists will already generate a crux if they have none due to Tome Bearer. That means if you're running Herald of the Tome, Banner Bearer's class script does nothing.

Yes for one overperforming spec it removes the need to be an arcanist base which is kinda nice. Would it be better for them to adjust inspiration to remove the crux generation instead and leave the class script alone?

There's literally no reason to adjust Tome Bearer's Inspiration. The class script on Banner was overperforming, but that doesn't mean they should have deleted it from the game.

All they needed to do was tone down the crux gen it gives, not make it useless. Reduce the cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 or 10 seconds and the problem is solved.

Instead they took their classic sledgehammer approach to balancing and deleted it from the game.

Other classes with useless class scripts to Arcanist mains: "First time, eh?"

Was thinking the exact same thing about Sorc's class script not having the word "permanent pet" in it or the fact that the Banner version ticks every 5s making it absolutely the worst skill in the game.

But on the topic. Easy solution is:

"Generate a Crux if you don't have a Crux already and increase your damage and healing done by 2% per active Crux."

I would prefer they don't go back to easy crux generation with a longer cooldown and simply reward players for actually having crux. The idea being it does something if you don't have 1 and something if you do. This is exactly how Necromancer's class script on Banner works with corpses. Add a similar mechanic for crux.

randconfig · July 10

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is one of the most mind boggingly silly changes I've ever seen.

Why on earth would you make it do the same thing as something you literally reference in the developer comment? That means that Banner's class script for Arcanist literally does nothing, as not a single Arcanist with more than 2 hours on the game will drop Tome Bearer.

This change literally kills the class for me, JUST AFTER THEY KILLED MY NECROMANCER BLASTBONES MAIN IN THE LAST ONE FROM THE PET LIMIT BUGS THEY MADE WORSE

I had faith, but now it's quickly fading. I'm not changing mains a third time, I'd rather just play something else that isn't bugged or something that has a developer that doesn't nerf a separate passive/ability than the one causing the issue (BEAM, NERF THE BEAM, NOT BANNER).

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 10

randconfig wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is one of the most mind boggingly silly changes I've ever seen.

Why on earth would you make it do the same thing as something you literally reference in the developer comment? That means that Banner's class script for Arcanist literally does nothing, as not a single Arcanist with more than 2 hours on the game will drop Tome Bearer.

This change literally kills the class for me, JUST AFTER THEY KILLED MY NECROMANCER BLASTBONES MAIN IN THE LAST ONE FROM THE PET LIMIT BUGS THEY MADE WORSE

I had faith, but now it's quickly fading. I'm not changing mains a third time, I'd rather just play something else that isn't bugged or something that has a developer that doesn't nerf a separate passive/ability than the one causing the issue (BEAM, NERF THE BEAM, NOT BANNER).

How does it kill the class? because you have to occasionally press tentacle once more before a beam? Also the 5 pet limit in PVP was reversed and changed back to 10 (which I think was always the limit)

randconfig · July 10

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is one of the most mind boggingly silly changes I've ever seen.

Why on earth would you make it do the same thing as something you literally reference in the developer comment? That means that Banner's class script for Arcanist literally does nothing, as not a single Arcanist with more than 2 hours on the game will drop Tome Bearer.

This change literally kills the class for me, JUST AFTER THEY KILLED MY NECROMANCER BLASTBONES MAIN IN THE LAST ONE FROM THE PET LIMIT BUGS THEY MADE WORSE

I had faith, but now it's quickly fading. I'm not changing mains a third time, I'd rather just play something else that isn't bugged or something that has a developer that doesn't nerf a separate passive/ability than the one causing the issue (BEAM, NERF THE BEAM, NOT BANNER).

How does it kill the class? because you have to occasionally press tentacle once more before a beam?

I use Tentacular Dread, the beam is only for meta players. This change kills the class because an already weak alternative playstyle to the beam was to build 3 crux and use the Tentacular Dread shotgun/burst ability. It also means you cannot scribe a custom crux spammable ability.

No diversity, just pressing the stupid beam button while you passively generate three more crux to press the beam button AGAIN, is not acceptable, not a class, not fun, not engaging, just delete it from the game and add a mythic that lets you spit out a green beam constantly. What garbage design.

kojou · July 10

Maybe they could make it grant 2 crux when you gain crux instead of one. That way it’s not “free” crux, but it does give a different benefit than a skill we already have.

randconfig · July 11

kojou wrote: »

Maybe they could make it grant 2 crux when you gain crux instead of one. That way it’s not “free” crux, but it does give a different benefit than a skill we already have.

I would accept this change, but it wouldn't address the beam being spammable with full crux problem. The beam needs a direct nerf to it mechanically, it should prevent crux generation during the beam channel.

MashmalloMan · July 11

kojou wrote: »

Maybe they could make it grant 2 crux when you gain crux instead of one. That way it’s not “free” crux, but it does give a different benefit than a skill we already have.

While you're beaming, you will earn 1 free crux from Tome-Bearer's Inspiration so when it ends you'll only need to Tentacle once to start beaming again.

That is basically the same situation as live using Banner because it can only generate once every 5s. The only difference is the part of your rotation where you refresh your dots. I doubt they would ever do this.

robpr · July 11

MashmalloMan wrote: »

While you're beaming, you will earn 1 free crux from Tome-Bearer's Inspiration so when it ends you'll only need to Tentacle once to start beaming again.

I saw dds even using Cruxweaver Armor with conjunction of banner and Tome-Bearer so they can skip the tentacle slap every now and then.

MashmalloMan · July 11

robpr wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

While you're beaming, you will earn 1 free crux from Tome-Bearer's Inspiration so when it ends you'll only need to Tentacle once to start beaming again.

I saw dds even using Cruxweaver Armor with conjunction of banner and Tome-Bearer so they can skip the tentacle slap every now and then.

Totally, the only reason this stopped happening is because subclassing is too good to pass up and nothing else in the tanking line is worth it for dds. I still do it on my alt, but it runs non serious content and most my alts are thematic instead of competitive. I have no idea how far it's actually behind.