Please remove the cast time and animation for ambush

silky_soft

Change it to exactly the same the crit rush but in a shadowy style. I'm sick of being stuck in a pooping position or it failing to cast because of a slight change in Z.

birdik

Make the dreams come true

fred4

silky_soft wrote: »

Change it to exactly the same the crit rush but in a shadowy style. I'm sick of being stuck in a pooping position or it failing to cast because of a slight change in Z.

Ambush is a teleport, Crit Rush is a gap closer with a travel animation and server terrain checking. There is a functional difference. I forget exactly under what circumstances this matters, but I believe it does matter. From that PoV I would prefer the skill's uniqueness be preserved.

At any rate, I bet there is nothing much wrong with the animation. We've been in a PvP speed meta ever since Swift, Wild Hunt, Race Against Time, Celerity CP and Steed's Blessing were introduced. I think that's exposed a general problem with positional desyncs, either caused by lag or simply by the ability of a target to be so fast as to out-of-range you by the time a skill actually fires as designed. I'm guessing that leads to an animation where you're left hanging. I think the game client starts the animation on the assumption that the server will complete the skill cast. When that doesn't happen you get a glitch. Just a guess.

Not saying this shouldn't be fixed. I haven't used Ambush in PvP for a very long time, precisely because it is so unresponsive. I find it less aggravating to rely merely on high speed myself these days, e.g. RAT.

Turtle_Bot

fred4 wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Change it to exactly the same the crit rush but in a shadowy style. I'm sick of being stuck in a pooping position or it failing to cast because of a slight change in Z.

Ambush is a teleport, Crit Rush is a gap closer with a travel animation and server terrain checking. There is a functional difference. I forget exactly under what circumstances this matters, but I believe it does matter. From that PoV I would prefer the skill's uniqueness be preserved.

It matters when it comes to impassable terrain (think a ravine or gap between 2 raised walls/buildings etc.).

The teleports like ambush, streak, mist form, vault, leap and arc portal will (should) cross those types of gaps (assuming the distance is short enough for them to reach the other side), but gap closers with the terrain check (crit rush, shield charge) will not cross those types of gaps because they are a charge (i.e. "run"), not a teleport.

fred4

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Change it to exactly the same the crit rush but in a shadowy style. I'm sick of being stuck in a pooping position or it failing to cast because of a slight change in Z.

Ambush is a teleport, Crit Rush is a gap closer with a travel animation and server terrain checking. There is a functional difference. I forget exactly under what circumstances this matters, but I believe it does matter. From that PoV I would prefer the skill's uniqueness be preserved.

It matters when it comes to impassable terrain (think a ravine or gap between 2 raised walls/buildings etc.).

The teleports like ambush, streak, mist form, vault, leap and arc portal will (should) cross those types of gaps (assuming the distance is short enough for them to reach the other side), but gap closers with the terrain check (crit rush, shield charge) will not cross those types of gaps because they are a charge (i.e. "run"), not a teleport.

Indeed. I also did some testing with Rush of Agony, whereby I activated Ulfsild's on the back bar, then Ambush / Lotus Fan followed by bar swap during the teleport. Everything, including Ulfsild's and back-barred Rush of Agony only procs at the target location. Given how I find Rush of Agony overbearing mostly when used by ballgroups, not lone NB bombers, I don't have an issue with how well this works. I have not checked whether it works as well with Crit Rush.

Stx

If ambush is a teleport it is the clunkiest, least responsive, slowest teleport in gaming history.

silky_soft

fred4 wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Change it to exactly the same the crit rush but in a shadowy style. I'm sick of being stuck in a pooping position or it failing to cast because of a slight change in Z.

...From that PoV I would prefer the skill's uniqueness be preserved.
... I haven't used Ambush in PvP for a very long time, precisely because it is so unresponsive. I find it less aggravating to rely merely on high speed myself these days, e.g. RAT.

So you dont use it but you want it to stay the way it is. Seems logical.

But the rest I understand, if it's coded as a teleport and dk leap is a teleport. Give us the same mechanics as dk leap where it 99% roots the target. Make it some shadowy effect. Boom done.

Turtle_Bot

silky_soft wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Change it to exactly the same the crit rush but in a shadowy style. I'm sick of being stuck in a pooping position or it failing to cast because of a slight change in Z.

...From that PoV I would prefer the skill's uniqueness be preserved.
... I haven't used Ambush in PvP for a very long time, precisely because it is so unresponsive. I find it less aggravating to rely merely on high speed myself these days, e.g. RAT.

So you dont use it but you want it to stay the way it is. Seems logical.

But the rest I understand, if it's coded as a teleport and dk leap is a teleport. Give us the same mechanics as dk leap where it 99% roots the target. Make it some shadowy effect. Boom done.

It used to have that same snare effect as Leap and be instant cast, but it got heavily abused to teleport into inaccessible areas (through closed keep walls/doors, etc.) and perma-root targets, so ZOS removed it. It's why all teleports have cast times (yes, even streak has a built in ~0.3s cast time/delay, it's just not shown on streaks tooltip).

silky_soft

Yea I get that all the time when I bring it up.

Make it location then. When the skill is cast and the target runs out of range you go to thier location of out of range. Maybe even make it a invisible chain that you pull towards the target. Maybe make it a portal under the targets feet.

It's been years, find a better solution.

silky_soft

For real team come on. Straight up swap this bad boy with something else like a ghost chain or give it the crystal frag treatment with insta cast. Forever stuck in pooping or missing a damage skill in rotation.

supabicboi

are we listing out impossible requests now? great, I wish dark deal can be instant cast. take my wish genie.

silky_soft

Impossible requests, hmm, how about just put cast times on everything so the animations have to actually play out.

TheImperfect

I wonder if this is just in PVP? I'm mainly PVE and just not having this issue with the skill and love it. Really don't want to see it changed but also really don't want others to have issues. I don't know if its a lot of people or not.

MashmalloMan

supabicboi wrote: »

are we listing out impossible requests now? great, I wish dark deal can be instant cast. take my wish genie.

Impossible nah. Devs just think cast times are enjoyable and great all encompassing counterplay. Barely needs a "rework" either. Just add this:

"Bracing causes this skill to become instant, but no longer heals."

I don't think it'd be OP, but if they wanted to, they could further nerf some aspect of it, like:

"..but stamina and health are returned at -50% the amount."

Siphoning Attacks exists so I don't really agree with the notion that some aspect of the skill can't be instant. Plus, I think the "if or that" condition is in theme with Crystal Frag from the same line, Persistence passive already entices people to block for cost reduction, and finally despite being a resource tool a Sorc tank would like to use, they're forced to block drop to use it.

And yeah, Ambush may mechanically "require" a cast time right now, but it doesn't mean it can't be adjusted to make it work. I haven't seriously played in like 2 years so it may have changed, but I used to use Stampede on stam Sorc to cross large gaps and reach vertical locations. It was basically a teleport as described in this thread, it just moves the player along the 22m linearly vs teleporting from the 1st location to the 2nd. Does Ambush need to "teleport"? I'd argue no.

For example, imagine Ambush changed you into a shadow image that blurred from point A to point B linearly like Stampede, basically the VFX from Mist Form, but moves much faster and requires a target.

Gap closers like Stampede tend to be more reliable with the server's position checking due to being instant vs Ambush's 0.4s cast time which often gets the cast canceled due to lack of line of sight by the time the player is ready to move. It's essentially the difference between playing at 50 ping vs 450 ping, night and day.

MashmalloMan

TheImperfect wrote: »

I wonder if this is just in PVP? I'm mainly PVE and just not having this issue with the skill and love it. Really don't want to see it changed but also really don't want others to have issues. I don't know if its a lot of people or not.

It's a pvp thing, as I described in my previous comment. The ability seems to check for the location you will travel to once the cast time is complete (0.4s) vs other gap closers which are instant. In pvp, players positioning is constantly in flux, breaking line of sight is a common defensive tactic, 400 mileseconds is an eternity when you add 2 players pings into the equation as well. It will constantly cause the ability cast to cancel because the server determines there is no clear line of sight.

In pve, mobs rarely run away from you, they tend to sit perfectly still or run at you so it's not surprising you wouldn't find any issues there, you're also not dealing with ping from both sides, just yourself to the server.

silky_soft

Moatly pvp. But happens in pve too. If there isn't a flat terrain like in IA. In open world or in a public dungeon. It's silly that it checks multiple times. It checks to allow the cast. Then sometime during and at the end of the cast.

If your sub 100ms, you never get to see any of the glitches the rest of us see. Unless you hit a okamai lag spike.

Mayrael

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Change it to exactly the same the crit rush but in a shadowy style. I'm sick of being stuck in a pooping position or it failing to cast because of a slight change in Z.

...From that PoV I would prefer the skill's uniqueness be preserved.
... I haven't used Ambush in PvP for a very long time, precisely because it is so unresponsive. I find it less aggravating to rely merely on high speed myself these days, e.g. RAT.

So you dont use it but you want it to stay the way it is. Seems logical.

But the rest I understand, if it's coded as a teleport and dk leap is a teleport. Give us the same mechanics as dk leap where it 99% roots the target. Make it some shadowy effect. Boom done.

It used to have that same snare effect as Leap and be instant cast, but it got heavily abused to teleport into inaccessible areas (through closed keep walls/doors, etc.) and perma-root targets, so ZOS removed it. It's why all teleports have cast times (yes, even streak has a built in ~0.3s cast time/delay, it's just not shown on streaks tooltip).

1. Streak doesn’t require a target, so when you’re chasing someone, even if they break line of sight, you still teleport closer to them.
2. You can’t cancel Streak mid-cast, but you can cancel Ambush. That makes them fundamentally different.
3. In a real PvP setting, if you’re trying to catch someone, it’s often better to roll dodge with a bow to gain Major Expedition and then sprint, rather than using Ambush. Ambush tends to leave you just behind your target, letting them escape. Reliability is what matters most.

Ambush needs some tweaks to make it more reliable, as it’s currently too inconsistent for effective use in PvP.

Dino-Jr

I like the current animation and cast time. Don't want to see it change. Only thing I would like to see is the way it skips backward slightly after landing sometimes getting fixed.

StihlReign

MashmalloMan wrote: »

supabicboi wrote: »

are we listing out impossible requests now? great, I wish dark deal can be instant cast. take my wish genie.

For example, imagine Ambush changed you into a shadow image that blurred from point A to point B linearly like Stampede, basically the VFX from Mist Form (Dark, maybe smoke), but moves much faster and requires a target.

Gap closers like Stampede tend to be more reliable with the server's position checking due to being instant vs Ambush's 0.4s cast time which often gets the cast canceled due to lack of line of sight by the time the player is ready to move. It's essentially the difference between playing at 50 ping vs 450 ping, night and day.

Nice! This solution would be much more reliable than what we have now. The current delay and multiple server checks renders the skill useless in pvp. Ulfsid's should also land at the target with Ambush...but that's another request lol

katorga

All .4s cast times should be removed. They feel "wrong" when you use them. Like the game is lagging.

xylena_lazarow

Can we make all gap closers work the same like Crit Rush? Please? There's absolutely zero reason for these skills to have different underlying mechanics when they all do exactly the same thing in practice. Even the one high school comp sci class I took told me not to do computer code like that, to use one "module" for that function.

Veinblood1965

supabicboi wrote: »

are we listing out impossible requests now? great, I wish dark deal can be instant cast. take my wish genie.

How about we make it all turn based. What a hoot that would be.