Stop considering BB a pet - Animate Blastbone can not work with the 5 pet/corpse limit in PvP

Dialectic93

The Necro ability , Blastbones should stop being considered a pet ability.
I don't see warden deep fissure or arcanist eye beam being considered a pet ability, it's ridiculous to have a pet ability as your class spammable, especially now with the handicap of having a combined corpse/pet cap of 5. Before necro even casts Reanimate he will be at 2-3 pets active (spirit guardian, skeletal mage, blastbones) and 3-4 corpses on the ground (not counting the mobs that die in cyro and imperial city). The ultimate 90% of cases now summons 0/3 blastbones. A 300 cost ultimate that does nothing in pvp but handicaps you. This ult needs to be made to work in pvp since it's necro's most reliable source of burst and his one and only pvp move.

RealLoveBVB

It's considered a pet, as enemies can target, stun and actually kill it before it explodes.

I am actually wondering, if spawned "pets" from sets, like the sphere monster mask from DC2, also count as pets.

Can anyone check, if those counts to the pet limit too?

Teeba_Shei

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

It's considered a pet, as enemies can target, stun and actually kill it before it explodes.

I am actually wondering, if spawned "pets" from sets, like the sphere monster mask from DC2, also count as pets.

Can anyone check, if those counts to the pet limit too?

The funny thing is, I tried to think of ways to test this by myself and it seems nearly impossible to hit the pet cap without doing some really wonky stuff. I feel like the pet cap of 5 is a none issue considering how hard it is to hit that cap without an extreme amount of intentionality.

Urzigurumash

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

It's considered a pet, as enemies can target, stun and actually kill it before it explodes.

I am actually wondering, if spawned "pets" from sets, like the sphere monster mask from DC2, also count as pets.

Can anyone check, if those counts to the pet limit too?

The funny thing is, I tried to think of ways to test this by myself and it seems nearly impossible to hit the pet cap without doing some really wonky stuff. I feel like the pet cap of 5 is a none issue considering how hard it is to hit that cap without an extreme amount of intentionality.

Uh like intentionally casting Animate Blastbones?

CameraBeardThePirate

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

It's considered a pet, as enemies can target, stun and actually kill it before it explodes.

I am actually wondering, if spawned "pets" from sets, like the sphere monster mask from DC2, also count as pets.

Can anyone check, if those counts to the pet limit too?

The funny thing is, I tried to think of ways to test this by myself and it seems nearly impossible to hit the pet cap without doing some really wonky stuff. I feel like the pet cap of 5 is a none issue considering how hard it is to hit that cap without an extreme amount of intentionality.

Nearly impossible? Pets and Corpses both count. It means you literally cannot make more than 3 corpses with Ghost + Blastbones, or more than 2 corpses with Ghost, Blastbones, and Minion.

When using Animate Blastbones, you typically use Intensive Mender to create 2 corpses and Bone Armor to create one before casting the ult. The problem is now that all corpses only last 5 seconds, this no longer works, which means you need to use another ability to create another corpse. Since you can't make 3 corpses if you have Minion, Blastbones, and Ghost, you have to only use Ghost and Blastbones, which means you can't set up an Animate Blastbones ultimate unless you're right on top of the enemy (the least effective place to cast the ultimate due to how the targeting works).

baconaura

they should have made it like the original shalks, where you recast it every 3-4 skills. That was such a smooth rotation compared to the janky blastbones, where sometimes it wouldn't cast, or it got stuck, and throws the rotation off.

even changing it to an instacast ground aoe would be more consistent and smoother, and remove the issue of bb getting stuck(which constantly happens in IA).

Darth_LucSky

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

It's considered a pet, as enemies can target, stun and actually kill it before it explodes.

I am actually wondering, if spawned "pets" from sets, like the sphere monster mask from DC2, also count as pets.

Can anyone check, if those counts to the pet limit too?

The funny thing is, I tried to think of ways to test this by myself and it seems nearly impossible to hit the pet cap without doing some really wonky stuff. I feel like the pet cap of 5 is a none issue considering how hard it is to hit that cap without an extreme amount of intentionality.

You're doing something wrong, then. I was parsing in the PTS with a pure Necro toon. I was using the following skills to generate corpses: Ghostly Embrace, Venom Skull, Banner with class mastery script, Blastbones and Skeletal Archer.
I was losing about 40% of my blastbones casts due to the pet limit being constantly at cap. I wasn't intentionally trying to generate a maximum amount of corpses. All the skills were part of my normal rotation that I use in the live servers. I was spamming Detonating Siphon as fast as I could and it still wasn't enough to "get rid" of the corpses I was generating.
This 5 corpse cap is a huge nerf for pure class Necros and it doesn't make much sense at all. They should have kept it at 10.

Deimus

I think the best option would be to not have corpses count as pets. I wasn't even aware they were pets until this PTS cycle. Is Arcanist's crux counted as a pet? If not corpses should be classified as whatever crux is counted as.

I don't think it will solve the issue. Now you have 2 active pets and 3 corpse pets. You can use Animate Blastbones with full potential if you get all 3 corpses before they despawn, but you're still capped at 12 seconds for Deaden Pain or 6 seconds for Necrotic Potency and only 3/5 corpses for Enduring Undeath. Also just a 6% stat increase for the class mastery.

Your skills are still heavily kneecapped in PvP with this change nerfing the effectiveness of your corpse consumers by 40-70%. Not to mention killing the use of sets like Unleashed Ritualist which just got buffed on Necromancer. Its main use is to buff the damage of Blastbones and Animate Blastbones which would no longer count if they weren't pets.

Zyaneth_Bal

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

It's considered a pet, as enemies can target, stun and actually kill it before it explodes.

I am actually wondering, if spawned "pets" from sets, like the sphere monster mask from DC2, also count as pets.

Can anyone check, if those counts to the pet limit too?

Engine guardian, maw of the infernal and such do count towards the pet limit.

Zyaneth_Bal

Deimus wrote: »

I think the best option would be to not have corpses count as pets. I wasn't even aware they were pets until this PTS cycle. Is Arcanist's crux counted as a pet? If not corpses should be classified as whatever crux is counted as.

I don't think it will solve the issue. Now you have 2 active pets and 3 corpse pets. You can use Animate Blastbones with full potential if you get all 3 corpses before they despawn, but you're still capped at 12 seconds for Deaden Pain or 6 seconds for Necrotic Potency and only 3/5 corpses for Enduring Undeath. Also just a 6% stat increase for the class mastery.

Your skills are still heavily kneecapped in PvP with this change nerfing the effectiveness of your corpse consumers by 40-70%. Not to mention killing the use of sets like Unleashed Ritualist which just got buffed on Necromancer. Its main use is to buff the damage of Blastbones and Animate Blastbones which would no longer count if they weren't pets.

Best option is to revert the limit back to 10. It really is a pointless change, no build other than “pure” necro does or will ever get beyond the limit of 5. And even if a couple of players decide to play a fun pet build for a day it will have zero effect on performance, especially compared to other stuff like ballgroups🫢

ForumBully

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Deimus wrote: »

I think the best option would be to not have corpses count as pets. I wasn't even aware they were pets until this PTS cycle. Is Arcanist's crux counted as a pet? If not corpses should be classified as whatever crux is counted as.

I don't think it will solve the issue. Now you have 2 active pets and 3 corpse pets. You can use Animate Blastbones with full potential if you get all 3 corpses before they despawn, but you're still capped at 12 seconds for Deaden Pain or 6 seconds for Necrotic Potency and only 3/5 corpses for Enduring Undeath. Also just a 6% stat increase for the class mastery.

Your skills are still heavily kneecapped in PvP with this change nerfing the effectiveness of your corpse consumers by 40-70%. Not to mention killing the use of sets like Unleashed Ritualist which just got buffed on Necromancer. Its main use is to buff the damage of Blastbones and Animate Blastbones which would no longer count if they weren't pets.

Best option is to revert the limit back to 10. It really is a pointless change, no build other than “pure” necro does or will ever get beyond the limit of 5. And even if a couple of players decide to play a fun pet build for a day it will have zero effect on performance, especially compared to other stuff like ballgroups🫢

It's definitely too low considering there's a class heavily summon oriented in the game. They made that choice when they designed Necromancer.

Wereswan

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

It's considered a pet, as enemies can target, stun and actually kill it before it explodes.

I am actually wondering, if spawned "pets" from sets, like the sphere monster mask from DC2, also count as pets.

Can anyone check, if those counts to the pet limit too?

The question is "how is the game engine handling these things internally?" If they zeroed in the pet system in general, and temporary pets from the Necromancer class in particular, as a problem right at the start, it would suggest they had already flagged pets in general, and the temporary ones generated by Necromancers in particular, as a problem.

Or put another way, how many of the Animal Companions skills actually generate a real "pet," as opposed to "animal-themed spell effect?" Pretty sure the bear and maybe the netch (which as far as I know doesn't get counted towards things for the "with a pet active" condition, but may mechanically be one) are the only two.

Alaztor91

It is baffling to me that ZOS decided to implement all these new ''rules'' for the Corpse system when the solutions is literally in the same Patch Notes.



Just turn the Necro pets into ''visual effects'', which are gameplaywise a superior design anyways since they don't have the downside of relying on NPC AI. You seriously can't change Blastbones so it behaves more like Scorch? Skeletal Mage so it behaves more like Inferno? Spirit Mender so it behaves more like Betty Netch?

These aren't permanent 2-bar pets we are talking about, they are 1-bar temporal duration ''pets'', there are no upsides about having them be a ''summoned entity with AI''. We are talking about a game where ZOS had to make Sorc pets(Bear too I think?) invulnerable in instanced content and where they had to make Companions almost immortal in the Infinite Archive, all because of how bad and unreliable the NPC AI is.

YandereGirlfriend

Alaztor91 wrote: »

It is baffling to me that ZOS decided to implement all these new ''rules'' for the Corpse system when the solutions is literally in the same Patch Notes.



Just turn the Necro pets into ''visual effects'', which are gameplaywise a superior design anyways since they don't have the downside of relying on NPC AI. You seriously can't change Blastbones so it behaves more like Scorch? Skeletal Mage so it behaves more like Inferno? Spirit Mender so it behaves more like Betty Netch?

These aren't permanent 2-bar pets we are talking about, they are 1-bar temporal duration ''pets'', there are no upsides about having them be a ''summoned entity with AI''. We are talking about a game where ZOS had to make Sorc pets(Bear too I think?) invulnerable in instanced content and where they had to make Companions almost immortal in the Infinite Archive, all because of how bad and unreliable the NPC AI is.

SO. MUCH. THIS.