Thanks for considering non-pet sorcs

Lylith

supabicboi wrote: »

Thanks for butchering non-pet sorcs*

^yeah, exactly.^

DaisyRay

jhall03 wrote: »

I would consider sorc pets if they just made the matriarch less visibly obtrusive.

I wish they would make the pets like the test camp, where you don't actually see them at all and you don't need to double bar it. Then I'd be all for it. They clearly know how to do that since they did it for the test. But make it as a morph for those who do want to see that big floppy bird.

Malyore

After reading the flood of separate threads discussing a desired buff to non-pet sorcs (both within and outside of the daedric summoning passive/active skill line), I'm in favor of them getting buffed. I've really only played non-pet sorc as my main content runner. The other classes I've used at level 50 is usually a support role so I can queue quickly for dailies, or is an unoptimized build for some PvE stories that my main character wouldn't do. So I didn't realize how comparatively different non-pet sorcs performance is from other non-pet classes.

Zyaneth_Bal

Malyore wrote: »

Yudo wrote: »

The do or don't on this is hard to take. Non-pet sorcs losing pretty much all passives and 10% magicka, and have to just look elsewhere if we do not want to play pets. Bound aegis and Ward are still key skills with or without pets both in pve and pvp but now it feels like punishment to use it on non-pet builds.

I suppose I can see that. I mean we had the abilities before, and now they've been reverted back to a similar state before they were updated, with the exception of bound armaments being a larger change, from my understanding.

If they were re-reverted into their non-pet form, I honestly can't see a problem with it.
I just know I've never ever liked the pets in this game (both combat and non-combat 🤢). So I was eager to rip that line out by its arteries, and I was glad to see that ZOS seemed to understand players like me. For someone who's removing that class line anyways (rather than building into it), the way the abilities perform without pets didn't seem to matter for my builds. Even for my tanking, I can just replace it with a different, perhaps better, tanking line. But if players really do rely on the healing shield and such on it even for non-pet, and even if players want to subclass into the line as non-pet, then that does seem to offer more diversity and build application.

Replacing skill lines should be done by choice, not out of necessity.

Daedric summoning includes the skills that define sorcerer, which are ironically all skills in the line besides 2 pets. And saying “If you don’t want to use pets then replace the skill line” is shortsighted and borderline offensive.

Not to mention that the absolute majority of skills and passives in other sorcerer skill lines are grossly underpowered.

Trejgon

When I saw this thread I honestly thought title is sarcasm....

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

With the porch newts, I'm glad to see it's been decided to make daedric summoning entirely summoning focused, so that sorcs who don't want to use pets can feel more confident in replacing the whole skill line with subclassing. I appreciate that level of thinking!

I used bound armaments on my bow sorc. Guess "play a different class" is the solution to that getting nerfed. So much for play how you want.

To be perfectly fair, between merciless buff, bound armaments nerf, and devs comment attitude, your bow sorc might be better with subbing in assasination in place of daedric summining and swapping armanents to merciless.

Anyway my stance on this topic stays the same for whole this discourse - if you want to treat daedric summoning as the pet line, and go on about "if you don't want pets, just sub it away" then go through the effort of actually making it into proper pet line, instead of proclaiming how "many abilities" have been adjusted with this in mind, and then only nerfing shield and passive out of of "when no pet present" variant. This skill line was only half about pets, and developpers comment is disrespectfull towards anyone enjoying the other half of the skill line.

On a side note, complete overhaul of daedric summoning line, to turn it into proper "daedric themed pet skill line" when done right would not also make the comment to sub it away if you don't like pets, but could also revitalize interest and public sentiments around pet sorcs. I for one would definitelly give pet sorc a shot again if that was the case. And I picked sorc specifically to play conjurer zos, so the fact that I grew to detest the pets, does say something about the state of affairs with these pets.

Malyore

Trejgon wrote: »

When I saw this thread I honestly thought title is sarcasm....

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

With the porch newts, I'm glad to see it's been decided to make daedric summoning entirely summoning focused, so that sorcs who don't want to use pets can feel more confident in replacing the whole skill line with subclassing. I appreciate that level of thinking!

I used bound armaments on my bow sorc. Guess "play a different class" is the solution to that getting nerfed. So much for play how you want.

To be perfectly fair, between merciless buff, bound armaments nerf, and devs comment attitude, your bow sorc might be better with subbing in assasination in place of daedric summining and swapping armanents to merciless.

Anyway my stance on this topic stays the same for whole this discourse - if you want to treat daedric summoning as the pet line, and go on about "if you don't want pets, just sub it away" then go through the effort of actually making it into proper pet line, instead of proclaiming how "many abilities" have been adjusted with this in mind, and then only nerfing shield and passive out of of "when no pet present" variant. This skill line was only half about pets, and developpers comment is disrespectfull towards anyone enjoying the other half of the skill line.

On a side note, complete overhaul of daedric summoning line, to turn it into proper "daedric themed pet skill line" when done right would not also make the comment to sub it away if you don't like pets, but could also revitalize interest and public sentiments around pet sorcs. I for one would definitelly give pet sorc a shot again if that was the case. And I picked sorc specifically to play conjurer zos, so the fact that I grew to detest the pets, does say something about the state of affairs with these pets.

I've never ever liked pets or conjuration. I want to be the one doing the fighting. But I will say if pets were altered to be more like a spell, like a lightning orb or rune, or maybe even a projection of the player, then I'd consider using them. But even so, I'd probably only use them if they took up one slot. As it is now, I don't see them being worth two slots even with the second cast ability, since the pets can die and mess with the heal and such.

Dino-Jr

Trejgon wrote: »

To be perfectly fair, between merciless buff, bound armaments nerf, and devs comment attitude, your bow sorc might be better with subbing in assasination in place of daedric summining and swapping armanents to merciless.

I tested this on PTS a bit. Works and swaps in but it feels kinda lame to do it. Something else is lost. Bound armaments animation and attack 'feels' different from merciless and more fun tbh. I think its because the animation is less abrupt, it sounds/looks cooler more sorceryery, and in some cases you can fire it early. Also feels bad to lose Haunting Crux (also a cool animation) in the process since Assassination doesnt have a delayed dmg/aoe that you can set and forget while layering in other skills.

Im hopeful they simply add some words to the end of the passives that allow the Sorcer Class Only to get some passives without pets. Seems doable to add a toggle like that or just dont make any of the passives active Pet dependent at all and reduce its overall quality but allow everyone access to it. Thats probably the best outcome since it wont feel like you have a dead 'passive' by using the skill in the class the skill is from.

Trejgon

Malyore wrote: »

I've never ever liked pets or conjuration. I want to be the one doing the fighting. But I will say if pets were altered to be more like a spell, like a lightning orb or rune, or maybe even a projection of the player, then I'd consider using them. But even so, I'd probably only use them if they took up one slot. As it is now, I don't see them being worth two slots even with the second cast ability, since the pets can die and mess with the heal and such.

I can respect different people liking different playstyles. That being said even as someone whom enjoys conjuration playstyle in general I agree that sorc pets as they are right now, are hardly worth the slot cost they come with. I also find it odd how all three non-ult pets are "permanent" summons, and ult is timed. Usually with previous titles, getting a "permanent" summon was sign of mastery over the conjuration magic, not something one could do from the get go.

I'd also most likely enjoy the loop more if the pets were timed summons performingspecific actions in line with what warden pets are. Before someone tells me to just use warden pets - the big part of conjurer theme is the bit where you now, conjure daedra, and not some random Vvanderfel wildlife.

If I were to overhaul daedric summoning skill line to be entirely pet-focused I'd probably use morphs to give people choice if they prefer permanent pets or timed ones. With base skill being timed, it would also play into the mastery element - you had to master this particular conjure to be able to acquire permanent version.

Dino-Jr wrote: »

I tested this on PTS a bit. Works and swaps in but it feels kinda lame to do it. Something else is lost. Bound armaments animation and attack 'feels' different from merciless and more fun tbh. I think its because the animation is less abrupt, it sounds/looks cooler more sorceryery, and in some cases you can fire it early. Also feels bad to lose Haunting Crux (also a cool animation) in the process since Assassination doesnt have a delayed dmg/aoe that you can set and forget while layering in other skills.

Im hopeful they simply add some words to the end of the passives that allow the Sorcer Class Only to get some passives without pets. Seems doable to add a toggle like that or just dont make any of the passives active Pet dependent at all and reduce its overall quality but allow everyone access to it. Thats probably the best outcome since it wont feel like you have a dead 'passive' by using the skill in the class the skill is from.

Well, I said "might be better" not perfect. I'd like to stay hopefull that ZOS will see the feedback and adjust the course with that particular skill line, but seeing how the PTS cycles went over last year and a half I'd not be holding my breath for it