Ball groups ruin Cyrodiil

Stridig

Iriidius wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite. What gives "ball groups" an unfair advantage over non "ball groups"? Are they using skills or gear that is only available to certain people? Are they using monster sets that are only available if you have a youtube chanel? Are they allowed to slot more CP on their bars than everyone else? Or is the root cause of the frustration just being blamed on them? Is the game actually pay to win with mythics and jewelry? What exactly is the unfair advantage? I hate fighting ball groups. I hate getting pulled halfway across the map by a gear set. But I don't think it's unfair to use skills and sets in Cyrodiil. To me it's just a bad argument to say ball groups ruin everything.

Stridig wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite. What gives "ball groups" an unfair advantage over non "ball groups"?

None of the tools randoms have available can actually threaten an optimized ball group. All they can do is brute force outnumber and spam. Sure they have Negates and Meatbags but by definition they can't coordinate them, only hope to get lucky that they land together. It can take hours of zergers randomly spamming before they land a lucky bomb, and even then it probably just sends the ball to their camp outside, ready to do the same exact thing again.

So you're saying ball groups DO have skills or abilities that aren't available to everyone. Ok. So the problem isn't ball groups, it's RNG? Some people get certain tools and some don't? I'm lost here.

They practically have.

While everyone can wear the sets or cast the skills ballgroups are using, they will not give the same sum of stats for a solo player (where the effect is given only to him) than for a ballgroupler where the effect is given to all 12 players to the ballgroup.

If a solo player wears sanctuary set he gets 10% healing.
If a ballgroupler wears sanctuary set all ballgroup members get 10% healing so sanctuary gives 12 times 10% healing so in sum 12*10=120%.
Same with powerful assault(12*307=3684wpndmg)
and spc/olorhime and every other groupset.

You're not wrong. The point is you are encouraged to group up in Cyrodiil. And if you choose to be a solo player, then there are certain types of builds that compliment that playstyle. Why on earth would a solo player slot DD#4 skills and sets if they weren't in a group?

So you understand and admit yourself that a solo player slotting group sets and skill will not get the same effect as a grouped player or even a solo player in sole sets+skills?
That should answer your questions

Stridig wrote: »

What gives "ballgroups" an unfair advantage over non "ball groups"? Are they using skills or gear that is only available to certain people?

with yes.

In Vengeance despite „nothing encouraging group“ there where lfg groups most of the time, the whole faction was stacked and fighting equal sized faction stacks of other faction.

Sets+Skills used by ballgroups divide players in useful players giving buffs you dont have or can stack and useless players having redundant or no group buffs getting excluded and not encourage grouping with everyone but only in premades.

Yeah I'm not having a vengeance vs GH conversation. And linking my comments isn't the mic drop you think it is. My point was it's not unfair to use the tools provided by the game. Is it broken? For like the 10th time in this very thread I'll say yes. Geez. This community.....

Iriidius

Stridig wrote: »

There are so few people willing to group up in Cyrodiil that ANY group is considered a ball group these days. People are so out of touch with what Cyrodiil is supposed to be that just last night in GH there was talk of mini ball groups. Yes, 3-4 players playing together are now being called mini ball groups. People not grouping up is what's ruining Cyrodiil. Solo players who slap on a gold set of shacklebreaker, then demand zos change Cyrodiil because they can't win fights is what's ruining Cyrodiil.

Nobody is calling 3-4 people a miniballgroup nor 6 unless they are stacking multitarget heals/shields and skill/setbuffs like a ballgroup.

Stridig wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

There are so few people willing to group up in Cyrodiil that ANY group is considered a ball group these days. People are so out of touch with what Cyrodiil is supposed to be that just last night in GH there was talk of mini ball groups. Yes, 3-4 players playing together are now being called mini ball groups. People not grouping up is what's ruining Cyrodiil. Solo players who slap on a gold set of shacklebreaker, then demand zos change Cyrodiil because they can't win fights is what's ruining Cyrodiil.

Yeah not like our old days when we ALWAYS joined up. TBH, I don't join up much because I don't want to get VD'd or have to follow the group on some out of the way venture. I spend most of my time just defending and recapping resources.

I saw a lot of random grouping in Vengeance. I think an automatic LFG should be implemented. When group 1 fills, let 2nd, 3rd, etc groups auto form. Random leader or players could ask for lead.

I'm not going much to Cyro since Vengeance. IF I do go, I make sure to just avoid balls. The key in ball groups is to remain where they can not pull you, even it limits your contribution. I play strictly on the walls and when they break through IFD, I just FTSIO and am done for the evening. Or pop right back in ... not much of a queue these days.

Yeah Darv. Groups were poppin back in the day. We ran barriers to push through a breach, DKs would pop magma to help, sorcs would negate and DPS would spin to win. People refuse to do it these days. Mist folks I see just want to solo whole factions the get mad when a CP 720 wrecks them. We need to bring group play back.

Premades refuse to invite randoms or members without build. Most soloplayers nowadays do not refuse to group but get refused by every group and have to play alone or not at all (what most players prefer because soloplay punished).

Any solo player wearing shacklebreaker loosing to a cp720 will realize they cant solo a whole faction before (or after) trying and not try (again). Even the best solo player do.
The time were solo players want and try soloing whole factions has been over for years.
Nobody expects to solo ballgroups, players expect to kill ballgroup with 30 randoms without voicechat and group builds and not get killed 20 times in 30 minutes before ballgroup leaves without a single member dying despite randoms not stacking.


I would be more than happy if whole factions would not attack me on sight when I am solo but as soon as I see enemy group there is already nothing I can do to avoid getting attacked and killed (other than use nearby keep door or port IC when they are still far away). The only way not to end solo against the whole enemy faction is by not playing solo in PvP zone.

PuGs are made useless by group size reduction to 12 from 24 when needing 24 to have an impact and not having more than 1 leader per 24 PuGs while ballgroup leaders can lead multiple ingame groups in voicechat and because pug cant use groupbuild.

Iriidius

Stridig wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite. What gives "ball groups" an unfair advantage over non "ball groups"? Are they using skills or gear that is only available to certain people? Are they using monster sets that are only available if you have a youtube chanel? Are they allowed to slot more CP on their bars than everyone else? Or is the root cause of the frustration just being blamed on them? Is the game actually pay to win with mythics and jewelry? What exactly is the unfair advantage? I hate fighting ball groups. I hate getting pulled halfway across the map by a gear set. But I don't think it's unfair to use skills and sets in Cyrodiil. To me it's just a bad argument to say ball groups ruin everything.

Stridig wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite. What gives "ball groups" an unfair advantage over non "ball groups"?

None of the tools randoms have available can actually threaten an optimized ball group. All they can do is brute force outnumber and spam. Sure they have Negates and Meatbags but by definition they can't coordinate them, only hope to get lucky that they land together. It can take hours of zergers randomly spamming before they land a lucky bomb, and even then it probably just sends the ball to their camp outside, ready to do the same exact thing again.

So you're saying ball groups DO have skills or abilities that aren't available to everyone. Ok. So the problem isn't ball groups, it's RNG? Some people get certain tools and some don't? I'm lost here.

They practically have.

While everyone can wear the sets or cast the skills ballgroups are using, they will not give the same sum of stats for a solo player (where the effect is given only to him) than for a ballgroupler where the effect is given to all 12 players to the ballgroup.

If a solo player wears sanctuary set he gets 10% healing.
If a ballgroupler wears sanctuary set all ballgroup members get 10% healing so sanctuary gives 12 times 10% healing so in sum 12*10=120%.
Same with powerful assault(12*307=3684wpndmg)
and spc/olorhime and every other groupset.

You're not wrong. The point is you are encouraged to group up in Cyrodiil. And if you choose to be a solo player, then there are certain types of builds that compliment that playstyle. Why on earth would a solo player slot DD#4 skills and sets if they weren't in a group?

So you understand and admit yourself that a solo player slotting group sets and skill will not get the same effect as a grouped player or even a solo player in sole sets+skills?
That should answer your questions

Stridig wrote: »

What gives "ballgroups" an unfair advantage over non "ball groups"? Are they using skills or gear that is only available to certain people?

with yes.

In Vengeance despite „nothing encouraging group“ there where lfg groups most of the time, the whole faction was stacked and fighting equal sized faction stacks of other faction.

Sets+Skills used by ballgroups divide players in useful players giving buffs you dont have or can stack and useless players having redundant or no group buffs getting excluded and not encourage grouping with everyone but only in premades.

Yeah I'm not having a vengeance vs GH conversation. And linking my comments isn't the mic drop you think it is. My point was it's not unfair to use the tools provided by the game. Is it broken? For like the 10th time in this very thread I'll say yes. Geez. This community.....

Using broken broken tools for premades as a premade against players that cant use them because they are not premade is unfair. Ballgroups do not care about fairness however except against other ballgroups.

Stridig

Uhhh.... ok. I posted my @name above for the folks that want to argue. But I will stand my ground. Choosing not to play a certain way doesn't mean the people that do choose to play a certain way are doing something unfair. It's a choice. I play a Magplar (most of the time) in GH. I wear Rattlcage, Shattered Fate, and Chudan. No procs, no mythics, and no vamp. I certainly don't claim people are doing unfair things if they choose to play differently. Anyway, hit me up in game. I don't mind arguing there.

Iriidius

Stridig wrote: »

Uhhh.... ok. I posted my @name above for the folks that want to argue. But I will stand my ground. Choosing not to play a certain way doesn't mean the people that do choose to play a certain way are doing something unfair. It's a choice. I play a Magplar (most of the time) in GH. I wear Rattlcage, Shattered Fate, and Chudan. No procs, no mythics, and no vamp. I certainly don't claim people are doing unfair things if they choose to play differently. Anyway, hit me up in game. I don't mind arguing there.

So you want disprove ballgroup critics in forum but players disproving your arguments should write you private so nobody can see they disproved you and your arguments are still not disproved in forum?

Seems like double standart that others should try convincing only one stubborn player while you can voice your opinion in antiballgroup thread for every one to see.

Wearing noproc, nomythic and no vampire while beeing more of an disadvantage than it should be is still a form of building suboptimal for your own playstile while you cant use ballgroup tools to the same effect as a ballgroup without becoming one.

If you want to share heals/shield, sets and buffskills to get back as much as you shared you must play in group with group builds which makes you a ballgroup.
If you want 12 echoing vigor and 6 radiant regen and multiple effects/buffs from sets and skills that you not slot yourself youhave to play in a ballgroup. You cant get these things as a solo/smallscale/pug player.

You claimed you defend every playstile but do not defend other playstiles against getting farmed and bullied by ballgroup until they quit PvP.

Stridig

Iriidius wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Uhhh.... ok. I posted my @name above for the folks that want to argue. But I will stand my ground. Choosing not to play a certain way doesn't mean the people that do choose to play a certain way are doing something unfair. It's a choice. I play a Magplar (most of the time) in GH. I wear Rattlcage, Shattered Fate, and Chudan. No procs, no mythics, and no vamp. I certainly don't claim people are doing unfair things if they choose to play differently. Anyway, hit me up in game. I don't mind arguing there.

So you want disprove ballgroup critics in forum but players disproving your arguments should write you private so nobody can see they disproved you and your arguments are still not disproved in forum?

Seems like double standart that others should try convincing only one stubborn player while you can voice your opinion in antiballgroup thread for every one to see.

Wearing noproc, nomythic and no vampire while beeing more of an disadvantage than it should be is still a form of building suboptimal for your own playstile while you cant use ballgroup tools to the same effect as a ballgroup without becoming one.

If you want to share heals/shield, sets and buffskills to get back as much as you shared you must play in group with group builds which makes you a ballgroup.
If you want 12 echoing vigor and 6 radiant regen and multiple effects/buffs from sets and skills that you not slot yourself youhave to play in a ballgroup. You cant get these things as a solo/smallscale/pug player.

You claimed you defend every playstile but do not defend other playstiles against getting farmed and bullied by ballgroup until they quit PvP.

I actually just wanted people to message me so the thread doesn't get closed. Most people who PvP are well aware that you can't get group buffs while running around solo.