Would pre-nerfed Oakensoul even be meta now?

dark_hunterxmg

I'm not convinced that the pre-nerfed version of Oakensoul would be the meta like it was at launch. With the addition of scribing and the changes to abilities, and the apparent need for stacking multiple healing skills, I think players would simply run out of bar space.

Soarora

Only a handful of people in a trial need scribing abilities and the ultgen was causing problems in PvP. The real thing would be if oakensorc had similar damage to arcanist with ease of use (note that peak oakensorc didn’t do more damage than say, magdk, but the healing, defense, AoE, and ease of use pushed it ahead for things like AS and BRP).
Oakensorc and arc both have good defense, ease of use, and AoE. But Oakensorc also has infinite sustain, group burst healing, and an even more simple rotation. Arc does get to use sets like azureblight.

dark_hunterxmg

Soarora wrote: »

Only a handful of people in a trial need scribing abilities and the ultgen was causing problems in PvP. The real thing would be if oakensorc had similar damage to arcanist with ease of use (note that peak oakensorc didn’t do more damage than say, magdk, but the healing, defense, AoE, and ease of use pushed it ahead for things like AS and BRP).
Oakensorc and arc both have good defense, ease of use, and AoE. But Oakensorc also has infinite sustain, group burst healing, and an even more simple rotation. Arc does get to use sets like azureblight.

The ult gen problem in pvp was primarily due to Corrosive Armor. It used to generate ultimate while active, causing a nearly permanent Corrosive state. I think Oakensoul highlighted how OP Corrosive was, not the other way around..

Major_Mangle

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Only a handful of people in a trial need scribing abilities and the ultgen was causing problems in PvP. The real thing would be if oakensorc had similar damage to arcanist with ease of use (note that peak oakensorc didn’t do more damage than say, magdk, but the healing, defense, AoE, and ease of use pushed it ahead for things like AS and BRP).
Oakensorc and arc both have good defense, ease of use, and AoE. But Oakensorc also has infinite sustain, group burst healing, and an even more simple rotation. Arc does get to use sets like azureblight.

The ult gen problem in pvp was primarily due to Corrosive Armor. It used to generate ultimate while active, causing a nearly permanent Corrosive state. I think Oakensoul highlighted how OP Corrosive was, not the other way around..

The one and only reason corrosive got adjusted was because of Cryptcanon which allowed you to pop corrosive + another ultimate while corrosive was still running. The corrosive nerf had little to nothing do with Oakensoul.

To answer OP´s topic: Oakensoul was more of a PvP meta mythic more than it was a PvE meta mythic. It later got used on a lot of HA setups but I wouldn´t say that Oakensoul was ever really "meta" in that regard

El_Borracho

Oakensorc was not meta in PVE before the nerf. It was still about 10K lower than the traditional builds that were using Nirn + Whorl. But it allowed players who could not do some veteran group content to access it for the first time, as well as clear VMA, which was still a barrier to a lot of players who could not bar swap effectively.

But Oakensoul was nerfed because of what it was doing in PVP:



The Major Heroism was a problem, but Major Force was also an issue. Was it fun? In the beginning, yes, but once the novelty wore off, the fights turned into a coin flip so you had to run with a large group just to survive more than a few minutes. There really wasn't another build that could compete.

Add in the utter lack of skill required to run an Oakensorc in PVP, it was only a matter of time before the PVP community revolted. And for the first time, I agreed with them. It wasn't a one-bar build, it was a one button build with just a bunch of ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAP.

QB1

i dont think it was ever really meta besides on a couple of PvP builds like others have mentioned. It got nerfed too hard and too fast imo. Keep minor force and minor heroism and revert the other ones back to major

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Pre-nerf Oakensoul was ridiculous.

Major Berserk
Major Force
Major Courage
Major Heroism
Major Protection
+more

Stx

Yeah pre nerf Oakensoul was pretty nuts.

But I still wish they would add a major breach proc to the current one.

Zodiarkslayer

That is the original Oakensoul.
You bet this would be META!

Iriidius

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

That is the original Oakensoul.
You bet this would be META!

This version already got changed on PTS and never made it to live and would probably ne weaker than current oakensoul when you have to fit major brutality, resolve and savagery in 5 skillslots or not get them

Iriidius

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Only a handful of people in a trial need scribing abilities and the ultgen was causing problems in PvP. The real thing would be if oakensorc had similar damage to arcanist with ease of use (note that peak oakensorc didn’t do more damage than say, magdk, but the healing, defense, AoE, and ease of use pushed it ahead for things like AS and BRP).
Oakensorc and arc both have good defense, ease of use, and AoE. But Oakensorc also has infinite sustain, group burst healing, and an even more simple rotation. Arc does get to use sets like azureblight.

The ult gen problem in pvp was primarily due to Corrosive Armor. It used to generate ultimate while active, causing a nearly permanent Corrosive state. I think Oakensoul highlighted how OP Corrosive was, not the other way around..

Oakensoul was also used much by gankers(higher dmg than possible with 2 bars), blocktanks(deltia had pvp tank builds for 1bar but not for 2bar) and bowsorcs.
Players that could play 2bar fine and had no desire to play 1bar nor to play high isle were buying high isle just to get oakensoul because it made them stronger and allowed them to do things not possible to do with 2bar builds like oneshotting players.

Most DKs did not even slot corrosive armor before oakensoul allowed high uptime or most of dk dmg skills got nerfed in update35 making kills without corrosive armor difficult.
Permanent corrosive armor was very exaggerated, you could get maybe 60% uptime sacrificing lots of other things. Major heroism gives you 3 ultimate every 1.5 seconds, that is 24 heroism in 12seconds corrosive duration and you would get 50% heroism uptime with daedric trickery already so oakensoul increased your corrosive uptime by about 6%.

Even if ultimates are ready too fast with oakensoul it doesnt mean the ultimate is the problem because the ultimate wasnt useable so often without oaken.
And other classes have strong ultimates too. Player are just biased against corrosive.

So oakensoul was definitely a problem on its own and not just a indirect buff for corrosive.

Major_Mangle wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Only a handful of people in a trial need scribing abilities and the ultgen was causing problems in PvP. The real thing would be if oakensorc had similar damage to arcanist with ease of use (note that peak oakensorc didn’t do more damage than say, magdk, but the healing, defense, AoE, and ease of use pushed it ahead for things like AS and BRP).
Oakensorc and arc both have good defense, ease of use, and AoE. But Oakensorc also has infinite sustain, group burst healing, and an even more simple rotation. Arc does get to use sets like azureblight.

The ult gen problem in pvp was primarily due to Corrosive Armor. It used to generate ultimate while active, causing a nearly permanent Corrosive state. I think Oakensoul highlighted how OP Corrosive was, not the other way around..

The one and only reason corrosive got adjusted was because of Cryptcanon which allowed you to pop corrosive + another ultimate while corrosive was still running. The corrosive nerf had little to nothing do with Oakensoul.

To answer OP´s topic: Oakensoul was more of a PvP meta mythic more than it was a PvE meta mythic. It later got used on a lot of HA setups but I wouldn´t say that Oakensoul was ever really "meta" in that regard

Corrosive nerf probably was because of cryptcanon but could also be because of complain about class set basalt warrior increasing uptime that got rarely used after it hit live or general complains about corrosive.
Corrosive leap was not even the strongest combo you can do with duo, just the most fun.
Hitting a nova synergy especially with old harmony but also without should do similar dmg.
A warden using 500 balorgh ice ulti, the getting 500 ulti from cryptcanon and using 500balorgh northern storm should get 23k penetration and the same dmg as corrosive leap every second.

QB1

As a PvP main, I wish we could get something close to the pre-nerf version of Oakensoul. Like I said in a previous comment, I think Major Heroism and maybe Major Force were the most problematic parts of it, so those could stay as minor buffs, but most of the others could easily be reverted back to major.

Right now, Oakensoul is somewhat usable in PvP, but it's mostly only used on gank builds and healers. If you're trying to build a brawler, it’s hard not to feel like you’re at a massive disadvantage. Fighting a solid two-bar player with good sets and rotations, it doesn't matter what you do, you won't be able to compete. Even if you're the more skilled player.

People love to say that one-bar players are lazy or don’t want to “learn the game,” and while that may be true for some, it's not true for all. Many of us have been playing since release, and have played meta two bar builds for many years. We just don't enjoy needing to fill our skill bars with buff skills (especially ones that are ugly looking) to remain viable, instead of using the skills we actually want to use for our builds. I don't want to have to use camo hunter on every single build. I don't want to use ice staff/ele sus on every build.

But that’s what Oakensoul is good at. It lets you lean into a build theme without having to worry about fitting every buff skill or feeling like all of your builds look/feel the same. If I want to be a bow-only build or a fire mage with just a flame staff, Oakensoul lets you do that.

With the state of Oakensoul now, it's just not competitive enough. I get the argument that two bar should be stronger, but I don't think one bar should feel like a joke either. Some of us just want to play differently, and Oakensoul should support that. I’m not asking for it to be OP again, just competitive. Let us feel like we're not massively handicapped the moment we step into Cyrodiil or battleground.

So, to answer OP's question, Oakensoul still wouldn't be meta today, but it would at least let us compete in PvP. In the meantime, I'll continue to play at a disadvantage just to avoid running an ice staff on my bow build

Cooperharley

Pre nerf oakensoul was so fun dude lol

cuddles_with_wroble

Pre nerf oakensoul gave you the 2 strongest dps buffs in the game for free at all times. It will always be broken no matter what era of the game you put it in. Just like the new mythic which gives the same buffs Sadge. One day they will learn that giving people major force is a big no no

dark_hunterxmg

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Pre nerf oakensoul gave you the 2 strongest dps buffs in the game for free at all times. It will always be broken no matter what era of the game you put it in. Just like the new mythic which gives the same buffs Sadge. One day they will learn that giving people major force is a big no no

I already started a thread about the new mythic. If major force was too strong for oakensoul then it's too strong for this, and it fits perfectly into a 2bar build with very little drawn backs. At least oakensoul restricted you to 1bar.

QB1

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Pre nerf oakensoul gave you the 2 strongest dps buffs in the game for free at all times. It will always be broken no matter what era of the game you put it in. Just like the new mythic which gives the same buffs Sadge. One day they will learn that giving people major force is a big no no

I already started a thread about the new mythic. If major force was too strong for oakensoul then it's too strong for this, and it fits perfectly into a 2bar build with very little drawn backs. At least oakensoul restricted you to 1bar.

Exactly this^ People seem to forget that Oakensoul players are limited to one bar

dark_hunterxmg

QB1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Pre nerf oakensoul gave you the 2 strongest dps buffs in the game for free at all times. It will always be broken no matter what era of the game you put it in. Just like the new mythic which gives the same buffs Sadge. One day they will learn that giving people major force is a big no no

I already started a thread about the new mythic. If major force was too strong for oakensoul then it's too strong for this, and it fits perfectly into a 2bar build with very little drawn backs. At least oakensoul restricted you to 1bar.

Exactly this^ People seem to forget that Oakensoul players are limited to one bar

Right! So now we have the "too powerful" Major Force with full uptime on the offensive bar while still being able to slot 12 skills.

cuddles_with_wroble

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Pre nerf oakensoul gave you the 2 strongest dps buffs in the game for free at all times. It will always be broken no matter what era of the game you put it in. Just like the new mythic which gives the same buffs Sadge. One day they will learn that giving people major force is a big no no

I already started a thread about the new mythic. If major force was too strong for oakensoul then it's too strong for this, and it fits perfectly into a 2bar build with very little drawn backs. At least oakensoul restricted you to 1bar.

Yea the new mythic is far to strong, even right now most people run saint and seducer and just hold ultimate until the major force proc.

Major force gotta be banned from pvp.

Not to mention it works out of combat so ganky boys can use it too with corrosive

jaws343

It would absolutely be a problem. You could ult gen stack a build to the point of having a never ending chain of Storm Atros on the field. In some cases, overlapping. And the ring covered all of your defense, and added major heroism. It was crazy.

NxJoeyD

I’ve spent a lot of time working with Oakensoul; namely because I enjoyed the challenge of trying to tweak and design a one bar build with the ever growing requirements needed for PvP, but which was also effective in PvE ... that said.

I will say that now, with Subclassing, I do not believe Oakensoul builds are competitive in PvP; usable, yes, but trailing far behind. Forget about anything meta, you’re not even close with Oakensoul.

I do agree Major Force would be too much for Oakensoul and Major Force on the new Mythic is just foolish; especially when we all knew that everyone would go running for NB skill trees and bumping up crits even higher … someone at ZoS was taking a nap on that one.

As for Oakensoul; I think it was a great idea to introduce to the game. While having only one bar of rotation to manage is a benefit, strategically including everything that’s needed to be effective in both PvP & PvE is not easy to do.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you can’t use an Oakensoul build in PvP, but what I am saying is that with Subclassing now, you’re going to have a struggle bus time with it.

At one point Oakensoul did a fair job at making up for the loss of an entire bar, but now, we’re seeing condensed metas that are too able to close gaps in builds which were essential for combat.

Between the insane sets & subclassing Oakensoul was left behind. The ability and art it took to make a single bar build that could stand toe to toe was tossed out with the bath water; and that’s somewhat of a shame because that’s an entire challenge aspect to character building that the Devs basically gave us then (by proxy) took back.

QB1

Oakensoul needs buffed badly