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1 easy QOL fix Tanks Need in 2025 ZOS Please Read... Thanks!
ElderSmitter
✭✭✭✭✭
We need to be able to override other PVE Players CC immunity from pets and sets on adds... I should not be prevented from pulling adds in because a pet or some pve set puts a cc on a weak add. It wastes time and stamina. I am standing in the center of a room pulling in 10 adds and a pet has 2 of them CC'ed with that little circle under them preventing me from grabbing them...
Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
Edited by ElderSmitter on 29 December 2024 20:50 Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
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DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IMO, this falls under the category of "git gud". While I'm loathe to use that term, sometimes it's appropriate.
And to be clear, I'm not saying the OP needs to "git good", but moreso that the group dynamic needs to. DPS players need to know when not to use CC effects. All players need to know how to properly kit out their companion skill lines (ie.. Don't give a companion a taunt skill and then equip it with a bow).
Like I said, I'm loathe to use the term because it's usually tossed around too carelessly. But I'm even more opposed to adding more Hand Holding to replace player ability.
Edited by DenverRalphy on 29 December 2024 15:149 -
Koshka✭✭✭DenverRalphy wrote: »IMO, this falls under the category of "git gud". While I'm loathe to use that term, sometimes it's appropriate.
It does sound bad, but I agree. If you play with pugs, there will always be that one dk who leaps into the mobs that were just stacked, that one arcanist dd with a taunt and other similar characters. If you find that annoying, the best thing to do is to stop playing with randoms and join a guild/add capable players from group finder to your friends list and run dungeons with them.Edited by Koshka on 29 December 2024 15:431 -
Julia_Nix✭✭✭DDs CCed adds? Then they have to turn around and finish off said adds. No perfectly stacked adds for them
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Lykeion✭✭✭✭✭If this is limited to PvE then I think it's a good QoL change. Maybe the dev could add a distinction between hard and soft CC for monsters as they did with taunts before1 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DenverRalphy wrote: »IMO, this falls under the category of "git gud". While I'm loathe to use that term, sometimes it's appropriate.
And to be clear, I'm not saying the OP needs to "git good", but moreso that the group dynamic needs to. DPS players need to know when not to use CC effects. All players need to know how to properly kit out their companion skill lines (ie.. Don't give a companion a taunt skill and then equip it with a bow).
Like I said, I'm loathe to use the term because it's usually tossed around too carelessly. But I'm even more opposed to adding more Hand Holding to replace player ability.
It’s not really git gud because its DPS abilities that are doing cc; sorc DPS want to use their scamp ability in trash because it does AoE damage. Warden DPS will run bear, bear is important, bear ALSO applies cc on its own (don’t even have to use the skill). These 2 skills shouldn’t apply cc. Then there would be a lot less problems. Could still run into issues with arctic blast and atronach of course but the ones that really bother me are scamp and bear because they’re not intuitive to stop the cc on.
Both skills bother me in particular from a tank perspective but bear also bothers me from a DPS perspective. Every single time I run warden dps I’m going to cc things and they’re not going to get stacked just because bear applies a stun on its own. I’d have to nerf my damage by not running bear or tell my bear not to attack every time combat starts and then tell it to attack the stack.If this is limited to PvE then I think it's a good QoL change. Maybe the dev could add a distinction between hard and soft CC for monsters as they did with taunts before
Wouldn’t affect PvP if cc was dropped from these skills because as far as I’ve seen, no one runs either skill (sorc scamp and warden bear) in PvP. Hard CC and soft CC already exist and a tank uses both, so swapping the skills from stuns to immobilizes wouldn’t make it a much better situation. Could make pulls their own CC but THAT I imagine wouldn’t go over well for PvP.Edited by Soarora on 29 December 2024 18:34PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tanks hate stuns. I don't activate my scamp til after stuffs stacked because it stuns.1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »We need to be able to override other PVE Players CC immunity from pets and sets on adds... I should not be prevented from pulling adds in because a pet or some pve set puts a cc on a weak add. It wastes time and stamina. I am standing in the center of a room pulling in 10 adds and a pet has 2 of them CC'ed with that little circle under them preventing me from grabbing in...
Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
@ElderSmitter, there is taunt immunity, and a tank cannot override a taunt when that occurs.
So, I am going to say no to this. This concerns group play, which is to be coordinated. They are to work together to combat the issue. Even with random GF groups, they are to work together similarly. I say this as someone who has tanked a great many dungeons and trials and cleared them in other roles as well.
Just remembered what a tank I used to run with said. Spank it, you tank it. Granted, he said it when I pulled agro off him in a game with a real agro table.
Edited by Amottica on 29 December 2024 20:220 -
ElderSmitter✭✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »We need to be able to override other PVE Players CC immunity from pets and sets on adds... I should not be prevented from pulling adds in because a pet or some pve set puts a cc on a weak add. It wastes time and stamina. I am standing in the center of a room pulling in 10 adds and a pet has 2 of them CC'ed with that little circle under them preventing me from grabbing in...
Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
@ElderSmitter, there is taunt immunity, and a tank cannot override a taunt when that occurs.
So, I am going to say no to this. This concerns group play, which is to be coordinated. They are to work together to combat the issue. Even with random GF groups, they are to work together similarly. I say this as someone who has tanked a great many dungeons and trials and cleared them in other roles as well.
Just remembered what a tank I used to run with said. Spank it, you tank it. Granted, he said it when I pulled agro off him in a game with a real agro table.
I am not talking about taunt immunity at all. Groups do work together but a Scamp or Bear for instance putting a pull immunity (cc) on adds preventing a Tank from over ridding this and pulling them into the groups AOE's is quite odd. Especially now that a tank can override a soft taunt form a dps or healer. Yes, i too have run thousands of Dungeons and trials and felt this was the right time to bring it up heading into 2025 since ESO Dev's seems to be going into a different type of update cycle. They could easily fix this.
My Job as a tank is to allow the group to mow down whatever they can in a timely clean fashion. Those Scamps and Bears can easily be fixed by ZOS to allow us Tank to override their cc without causing a PVP issues. Cheers!
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »ElderSmitter wrote: »We need to be able to override other PVE Players CC immunity from pets and sets on adds... I should not be prevented from pulling adds in because a pet or some pve set puts a cc on a weak add. It wastes time and stamina. I am standing in the center of a room pulling in 10 adds and a pet has 2 of them CC'ed with that little circle under them preventing me from grabbing in...
Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
@ElderSmitter, there is taunt immunity, and a tank cannot override a taunt when that occurs.
So, I am going to say no to this. This concerns group play, which is to be coordinated. They are to work together to combat the issue. Even with random GF groups, they are to work together similarly. I say this as someone who has tanked a great many dungeons and trials and cleared them in other roles as well.
Just remembered what a tank I used to run with said. Spank it, you tank it. Granted, he said it when I pulled agro off him in a game with a real agro table.
I am not talking about taunt immunity at all. Groups do work together but a Scamp or Bear for instance putting a pull immunity (cc) on adds preventing a Tank from over ridding this and pulling them into the groups AOE's is quite odd. Especially now that a tank can override a soft taunt form a dps or healer. Yes, i too have run thousands of Dungeons and trials and felt this was the right time to bring it up heading into 2025 since ESO Dev's seems to be going into a different type of update cycle. They could easily fix this.
My Job as a tank is to allow the group to mow down whatever they can in a timely clean fashion. Those Scamps and Bears can easily be fixed by ZOS to allow us Tank to override their cc without causing a PVP issues. Cheers!ElderSmitter wrote: »Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
If we are talking about how a tank can override taunts in PvE, then we are talking about taunt immunity.
The group dungeons and trials have been cleared thousands of times—probably thousands of times yearly on each server. Many of the tanks in those groups have figured out how to handle their roles with this mechanic. Not all of those tanks use a pull, yet they can still manage to perform their role.
So, there is no issue with CC immunity. This is proven every day. Tanks with an issue like this, I suggest they run as a DD or healer for a while and watch what other tanks do. Learning by watching other tanks overcome challenges is helpful is many ways.
Good luck, and enjoy the game.
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Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »ElderSmitter wrote: »We need to be able to override other PVE Players CC immunity from pets and sets on adds... I should not be prevented from pulling adds in because a pet or some pve set puts a cc on a weak add. It wastes time and stamina. I am standing in the center of a room pulling in 10 adds and a pet has 2 of them CC'ed with that little circle under them preventing me from grabbing in...
Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
@ElderSmitter, there is taunt immunity, and a tank cannot override a taunt when that occurs.
So, I am going to say no to this. This concerns group play, which is to be coordinated. They are to work together to combat the issue. Even with random GF groups, they are to work together similarly. I say this as someone who has tanked a great many dungeons and trials and cleared them in other roles as well.
Just remembered what a tank I used to run with said. Spank it, you tank it. Granted, he said it when I pulled agro off him in a game with a real agro table.
I am not talking about taunt immunity at all. Groups do work together but a Scamp or Bear for instance putting a pull immunity (cc) on adds preventing a Tank from over ridding this and pulling them into the groups AOE's is quite odd. Especially now that a tank can override a soft taunt form a dps or healer. Yes, i too have run thousands of Dungeons and trials and felt this was the right time to bring it up heading into 2025 since ESO Dev's seems to be going into a different type of update cycle. They could easily fix this.
My Job as a tank is to allow the group to mow down whatever they can in a timely clean fashion. Those Scamps and Bears can easily be fixed by ZOS to allow us Tank to override their cc without causing a PVP issues. Cheers!ElderSmitter wrote: »Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
If we are talking about how a tank can override taunts in PvE, then we are talking about taunt immunity.
The group dungeons and trials have been cleared thousands of times—probably thousands of times yearly on each server. Many of the tanks in those groups have figured out how to handle their roles with this mechanic. Not all of those tanks use a pull, yet they can still manage to perform their role.
So, there is no issue with CC immunity. This is proven every day. Tanks with an issue like this, I suggest they run as a DD or healer for a while and watch what other tanks do. Learning by watching other tanks overcome challenges is helpful is many ways.
Good luck, and enjoy the game.
You can tank without a pull but any good tank will use a pull to stack enemies. A great tank will stack enemies tightly and immobilize them so they don’t move. Telling us to watch other tanks that may be worse than us doesn’t solve the problem that DPS are applying hard cc immunity when they don’t really have a way not to. Yes, its a miniscule problem— the DPS can turn around and kill the straggler. But its annoying and there’s no good reason that scamp and bear in particular (the two I have problems with*) should have a stun.
*I’ll reiterate that my bear on warden dps doesn’t just annoy the tank (oh my poor friend who has complained many times about the cc immunity), it annoys me too because now I have to go find the enemy instead of just cleaving the stack down.
Sorry OP for kind of hijacking your thread, I’m passionate about this problem so I’m glad you brought it up.Edited by Soarora on 30 December 2024 02:24PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »ElderSmitter wrote: »We need to be able to override other PVE Players CC immunity from pets and sets on adds... I should not be prevented from pulling adds in because a pet or some pve set puts a cc on a weak add. It wastes time and stamina. I am standing in the center of a room pulling in 10 adds and a pet has 2 of them CC'ed with that little circle under them preventing me from grabbing in...
Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
@ElderSmitter, there is taunt immunity, and a tank cannot override a taunt when that occurs.
So, I am going to say no to this. This concerns group play, which is to be coordinated. They are to work together to combat the issue. Even with random GF groups, they are to work together similarly. I say this as someone who has tanked a great many dungeons and trials and cleared them in other roles as well.
Just remembered what a tank I used to run with said. Spank it, you tank it. Granted, he said it when I pulled agro off him in a game with a real agro table.
I am not talking about taunt immunity at all. Groups do work together but a Scamp or Bear for instance putting a pull immunity (cc) on adds preventing a Tank from over ridding this and pulling them into the groups AOE's is quite odd. Especially now that a tank can override a soft taunt form a dps or healer. Yes, i too have run thousands of Dungeons and trials and felt this was the right time to bring it up heading into 2025 since ESO Dev's seems to be going into a different type of update cycle. They could easily fix this.
My Job as a tank is to allow the group to mow down whatever they can in a timely clean fashion. Those Scamps and Bears can easily be fixed by ZOS to allow us Tank to override their cc without causing a PVP issues. Cheers!ElderSmitter wrote: »Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
If we are talking about how a tank can override taunts in PvE, then we are talking about taunt immunity.
The group dungeons and trials have been cleared thousands of times—probably thousands of times yearly on each server. Many of the tanks in those groups have figured out how to handle their roles with this mechanic. Not all of those tanks use a pull, yet they can still manage to perform their role.
So, there is no issue with CC immunity. This is proven every day. Tanks with an issue like this, I suggest they run as a DD or healer for a while and watch what other tanks do. Learning by watching other tanks overcome challenges is helpful is many ways.
Good luck, and enjoy the game.
You can tank without a pull but any good tank will use a pull to stack enemies. A great tank will stack enemies tightly and immobilize them so they don’t move. Telling us to watch other tanks that may be worse than us doesn’t solve the problem that DPS are applying hard cc immunity when they don’t really have a way not to. Yes, its a miniscule problem— the DPS can turn around and kill the straggler. But its annoying and there’s no good reason that scamp and bear in particular (the two I have problems with*) should have a stun.
*I’ll reiterate that my bear on warden dps doesn’t just annoy the tank (oh my poor friend who has complained many times about the cc immunity), it annoys me too because now I have to go find the enemy instead of just cleaving the stack down.
Sorry OP for kind of hijacking your thread, I’m passionate about this problem so I’m glad you brought it up.
If we are going to talk about a great tank, then we are talking about a very skilled tank. They can pull a group together with and without a pull because they have become competent enough to handle varied situations.
Put it this way: I cannot recall the last time I had a CC immunity issue since I tend to be a step ahead of the group, leading it as a tank does and getting my job done to make it easy for them to do their jobs.
I must admit I cannot see this issue from the perspective the request comes from, as I have taken the time to watch other tanks and learn from them, which has helped me prepare and overcome obstacles—something I suggested earlier in this thread. I am glad I took the time to learn from others.
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ElderSmitter✭✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »ElderSmitter wrote: »We need to be able to override other PVE Players CC immunity from pets and sets on adds... I should not be prevented from pulling adds in because a pet or some pve set puts a cc on a weak add. It wastes time and stamina. I am standing in the center of a room pulling in 10 adds and a pet has 2 of them CC'ed with that little circle under them preventing me from grabbing in...
Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
@ElderSmitter, there is taunt immunity, and a tank cannot override a taunt when that occurs.
So, I am going to say no to this. This concerns group play, which is to be coordinated. They are to work together to combat the issue. Even with random GF groups, they are to work together similarly. I say this as someone who has tanked a great many dungeons and trials and cleared them in other roles as well.
Just remembered what a tank I used to run with said. Spank it, you tank it. Granted, he said it when I pulled agro off him in a game with a real agro table.
I am not talking about taunt immunity at all. Groups do work together but a Scamp or Bear for instance putting a pull immunity (cc) on adds preventing a Tank from over ridding this and pulling them into the groups AOE's is quite odd. Especially now that a tank can override a soft taunt form a dps or healer. Yes, i too have run thousands of Dungeons and trials and felt this was the right time to bring it up heading into 2025 since ESO Dev's seems to be going into a different type of update cycle. They could easily fix this.
My Job as a tank is to allow the group to mow down whatever they can in a timely clean fashion. Those Scamps and Bears can easily be fixed by ZOS to allow us Tank to override their cc without causing a PVP issues. Cheers!ElderSmitter wrote: »Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
If we are talking about how a tank can override taunts in PvE, then we are talking about taunt immunity.
The group dungeons and trials have been cleared thousands of times—probably thousands of times yearly on each server. Many of the tanks in those groups have figured out how to handle their roles with this mechanic. Not all of those tanks use a pull, yet they can still manage to perform their role.
So, there is no issue with CC immunity. This is proven every day. Tanks with an issue like this, I suggest they run as a DD or healer for a while and watch what other tanks do. Learning by watching other tanks overcome challenges is helpful is many ways.
Good luck, and enjoy the game.
You can tank without a pull but any good tank will use a pull to stack enemies. A great tank will stack enemies tightly and immobilize them so they don’t move. Telling us to watch other tanks that may be worse than us doesn’t solve the problem that DPS are applying hard cc immunity when they don’t really have a way not to. Yes, its a miniscule problem— the DPS can turn around and kill the straggler. But its annoying and there’s no good reason that scamp and bear in particular (the two I have problems with*) should have a stun.
*I’ll reiterate that my bear on warden dps doesn’t just annoy the tank (oh my poor friend who has complained many times about the cc immunity), it annoys me too because now I have to go find the enemy instead of just cleaving the stack down.
Sorry OP for kind of hijacking your thread, I’m passionate about this problem so I’m glad you brought it up.
If we are going to talk about a great tank, then we are talking about a very skilled tank. They can pull a group together with and without a pull because they have become competent enough to handle varied situations.
Put it this way: I cannot recall the last time I had a CC immunity issue since I tend to be a step ahead of the group, leading it as a tank does and getting my job done to make it easy for them to do their jobs.
I must admit I cannot see this issue from the perspective the request comes from, as I have taken the time to watch other tanks and learn from them, which has helped me prepare and overcome obstacles—something I suggested earlier in this thread. I am glad I took the time to learn from others.
I am not sure why you are saying this is a quality of Tank thing. That could not be farthest from the truth. This is clearly a unintended hard CC getting put on ad's that cannot be overridden by a pull ability a tank is using. Nothing more nothing less in PVE. Organized and being ahead of the group is fine but that does not occur in all instances nor can a 1 second cool down allow you to pull all distance enemies in ahead of the group unless they are so far ahead that they are still fighting add's and losing buffs you may be able to offer sticking around. When add's are about to die I take off and head to the next set of them too but that still does not prevent a pet from putting a hard CC on add's. Bosses move around and so forth while calling adds.
Tanks should be able to override a pet CC from a DPS or healer imo and it's been overlooked and not discussed enough for the Devs imo to consider fixing this.
Learning from others also has nothing to do with a Bear or Scamp causing a Hard CC. You must not run Pug Dungeons. I enjoy running in Organized groups and PUGS..
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Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wouldn’t affect PvP if cc was dropped from these skills because as far as I’ve seen, no one runs either skill (sorc scamp and warden bear) in PvP. Hard CC and soft CC already exist and a tank uses both, so swapping the skills from stuns to immobilizes wouldn’t make it a much better situation. Could make pulls their own CC but THAT I imagine wouldn’t go over well for PvP.
Solo content exists and variety is the spice of life, so these skills should remain as is. Anyone doing serious group content will be coordinating with other players, making a lot of these issues redundant.(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Pets- Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gifElectric-Heal- Stress free one bar pet build .
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
- Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifEye of the Queen- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gifEye of the King- My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
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Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wouldn’t affect PvP if cc was dropped from these skills because as far as I’ve seen, no one runs either skill (sorc scamp and warden bear) in PvP. Hard CC and soft CC already exist and a tank uses both, so swapping the skills from stuns to immobilizes wouldn’t make it a much better situation. Could make pulls their own CC but THAT I imagine wouldn’t go over well for PvP.
Solo content exists and variety is the spice of life, so these skills should remain as is. Anyone doing serious group content will be coordinating with other players, making a lot of these issues redundant.
Solo content sure does exist, but I still don't see why you'd need a stun on your pet. With scamp you could make the argument that players need to just not use the active ability, but one can't just tell every warden to not use bear because bear stuns on its own with no user input required. Heck, I'd be happier if bear's stun was at least moved to when you use the ultimate instead of whenever it wants to stun.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »ElderSmitter wrote: »ElderSmitter wrote: »We need to be able to override other PVE Players CC immunity from pets and sets on adds... I should not be prevented from pulling adds in because a pet or some pve set puts a cc on a weak add. It wastes time and stamina. I am standing in the center of a room pulling in 10 adds and a pet has 2 of them CC'ed with that little circle under them preventing me from grabbing in...
Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
@ElderSmitter, there is taunt immunity, and a tank cannot override a taunt when that occurs.
So, I am going to say no to this. This concerns group play, which is to be coordinated. They are to work together to combat the issue. Even with random GF groups, they are to work together similarly. I say this as someone who has tanked a great many dungeons and trials and cleared them in other roles as well.
Just remembered what a tank I used to run with said. Spank it, you tank it. Granted, he said it when I pulled agro off him in a game with a real agro table.
I am not talking about taunt immunity at all. Groups do work together but a Scamp or Bear for instance putting a pull immunity (cc) on adds preventing a Tank from over ridding this and pulling them into the groups AOE's is quite odd. Especially now that a tank can override a soft taunt form a dps or healer. Yes, i too have run thousands of Dungeons and trials and felt this was the right time to bring it up heading into 2025 since ESO Dev's seems to be going into a different type of update cycle. They could easily fix this.
My Job as a tank is to allow the group to mow down whatever they can in a timely clean fashion. Those Scamps and Bears can easily be fixed by ZOS to allow us Tank to override their cc without causing a PVP issues. Cheers!ElderSmitter wrote: »Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
If we are talking about how a tank can override taunts in PvE, then we are talking about taunt immunity.
The group dungeons and trials have been cleared thousands of times—probably thousands of times yearly on each server. Many of the tanks in those groups have figured out how to handle their roles with this mechanic. Not all of those tanks use a pull, yet they can still manage to perform their role.
So, there is no issue with CC immunity. This is proven every day. Tanks with an issue like this, I suggest they run as a DD or healer for a while and watch what other tanks do. Learning by watching other tanks overcome challenges is helpful is many ways.
Good luck, and enjoy the game.
You can tank without a pull but any good tank will use a pull to stack enemies. A great tank will stack enemies tightly and immobilize them so they don’t move. Telling us to watch other tanks that may be worse than us doesn’t solve the problem that DPS are applying hard cc immunity when they don’t really have a way not to. Yes, its a miniscule problem— the DPS can turn around and kill the straggler. But its annoying and there’s no good reason that scamp and bear in particular (the two I have problems with*) should have a stun.
*I’ll reiterate that my bear on warden dps doesn’t just annoy the tank (oh my poor friend who has complained many times about the cc immunity), it annoys me too because now I have to go find the enemy instead of just cleaving the stack down.
Sorry OP for kind of hijacking your thread, I’m passionate about this problem so I’m glad you brought it up.
If we are going to talk about a great tank, then we are talking about a very skilled tank. They can pull a group together with and without a pull because they have become competent enough to handle varied situations.
Put it this way: I cannot recall the last time I had a CC immunity issue since I tend to be a step ahead of the group, leading it as a tank does and getting my job done to make it easy for them to do their jobs.
I must admit I cannot see this issue from the perspective the request comes from, as I have taken the time to watch other tanks and learn from them, which has helped me prepare and overcome obstacles—something I suggested earlier in this thread. I am glad I took the time to learn from others.
I am not sure why you are saying this is a quality of Tank thing. That could not be farthest from the truth. This is clearly a unintended hard CC getting put on ad's that cannot be overridden by a pull ability a tank is using. Nothing more nothing less in PVE. Organized and being ahead of the group is fine but that does not occur in all instances nor can a 1 second cool down allow you to pull all distance enemies in ahead of the group unless they are so far ahead that they are still fighting add's and losing buffs you may be able to offer sticking around. When add's are about to die I take off and head to the next set of them too but that still does not prevent a pet from putting a hard CC on add's. Bosses move around and so forth while calling adds.
Tanks should be able to override a pet CC from a DPS or healer imo and it's been overlooked and not discussed enough for the Devs imo to consider fixing this.
Learning from others also has nothing to do with a Bear or Scamp causing a Hard CC. You must not run Pug Dungeons. I enjoy running in Organized groups and PUGS..
No issue has been described in this thread that myself and a great many tanks have had problems with. We learned how to tank with the design of this game.
While I already knew how to tank well before I even started playing ESO I learned the nuances of ESO by practicing and learning from other tanks. The fact that a great many tanks successfully tank while this mechanic is in play proves it is not an issue.
By the way, some of the methods I use in tanking came from watching tanks in pug group and I managed to tank pug groups all the same. Granted, I am an experienced tank, which came from learning how to do my role properly. So yeah, I understand how pug groups can be. Part of the reason I am a great tank.
BTW, millions of times, dungeons and trials have been cleared without issue over the past decade. Zenimax has seen solid proof that this mechanic is not a real issue. This is proven daily and is why this mechanic will not be changed.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »
Learning from others also has nothing to do with a Bear or Scamp causing a Hard CC. You must not run Pug Dungeons. I enjoy running in Organized groups and PUGS..ElderSmitter wrote: »ElderSmitter wrote: »We need to be able to override other PVE Players CC immunity from pets and sets on adds... I should not be prevented from pulling adds in because a pet or some pve set puts a cc on a weak add. It wastes time and stamina. I am standing in the center of a room pulling in 10 adds and a pet has 2 of them CC'ed with that little circle under them preventing me from grabbing in...
Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
@ElderSmitter, there is taunt immunity, and a tank cannot override a taunt when that occurs.
So, I am going to say no to this. This concerns group play, which is to be coordinated. They are to work together to combat the issue. Even with random GF groups, they are to work together similarly. I say this as someone who has tanked a great many dungeons and trials and cleared them in other roles as well.
Just remembered what a tank I used to run with said. Spank it, you tank it. Granted, he said it when I pulled agro off him in a game with a real agro table.
I am not talking about taunt immunity at all. Groups do work together but a Scamp or Bear for instance putting a pull immunity (cc) on adds preventing a Tank from over ridding this and pulling them into the groups AOE's is quite odd. Especially now that a tank can override a soft taunt form a dps or healer. Yes, i too have run thousands of Dungeons and trials and felt this was the right time to bring it up heading into 2025 since ESO Dev's seems to be going into a different type of update cycle. They could easily fix this.
My Job as a tank is to allow the group to mow down whatever they can in a timely clean fashion. Those Scamps and Bears can easily be fixed by ZOS to allow us Tank to override their cc without causing a PVP issues. Cheers!ElderSmitter wrote: »Just like taunts Tanks should be able to override this in PVE...
If we are talking about how a tank can override taunts in PvE, then we are talking about taunt immunity.
The group dungeons and trials have been cleared thousands of times—probably thousands of times yearly on each server. Many of the tanks in those groups have figured out how to handle their roles with this mechanic. Not all of those tanks use a pull, yet they can still manage to perform their role.
So, there is no issue with CC immunity. This is proven every day. Tanks with an issue like this, I suggest they run as a DD or healer for a while and watch what other tanks do. Learning by watching other tanks overcome challenges is helpful is many ways.
Good luck, and enjoy the game.
You can tank without a pull but any good tank will use a pull to stack enemies. A great tank will stack enemies tightly and immobilize them so they don’t move. Telling us to watch other tanks that may be worse than us doesn’t solve the problem that DPS are applying hard cc immunity when they don’t really have a way not to. Yes, its a miniscule problem— the DPS can turn around and kill the straggler. But its annoying and there’s no good reason that scamp and bear in particular (the two I have problems with*) should have a stun.
*I’ll reiterate that my bear on warden dps doesn’t just annoy the tank (oh my poor friend who has complained many times about the cc immunity), it annoys me too because now I have to go find the enemy instead of just cleaving the stack down.
Sorry OP for kind of hijacking your thread, I’m passionate about this problem so I’m glad you brought it up.
If we are going to talk about a great tank, then we are talking about a very skilled tank. They can pull a group together with and without a pull because they have become competent enough to handle varied situations.
Put it this way: I cannot recall the last time I had a CC immunity issue since I tend to be a step ahead of the group, leading it as a tank does and getting my job done to make it easy for them to do their jobs.
I must admit I cannot see this issue from the perspective the request comes from, as I have taken the time to watch other tanks and learn from them, which has helped me prepare and overcome obstacles—something I suggested earlier in this thread. I am glad I took the time to learn from others.
I missed this sentance. Learning from others has everything to do with the topic of this thread.
Learning different approaching and how to deal with and even prevent the very situation described in the OP is why this is not an issue for myself and a lot of tanks in ESO. Learning from others along with figuring things out for ourselves is how we have been able to play this game for over a decade (well only a few years for myself) and not have mechanics liks this get in our way.
It is why I suggested it. BTW, it is also how I learned to recognize taunt immunity and how to deal with it and how to prevent it when I have a tank swap in raids. That which we overcome makes us stronger.
In all seriousness. Good luck and enjoy the game. You got this.
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Taril✭✭✭✭✭No issue has been described in this thread that myself and a great many tanks have had problems with. We learned how to tank with the design of this game.
BTW, millions of times, dungeons and trials have been cleared without issue over the past decade. Zenimax has seen solid proof that this mechanic is not a real issue. This is proven daily and is why this mechanic will not be changed.
I suppose that's why this is listed as a "Quality of Life" suggestion rather than a "OMG THIS IS SO BROKEN, GAME IS UNPLAYABLE" suggestion.
Yes, it's possible to play around it. Yes, it's possible to do content despite this interaction.
But... What does this interaction actually provide to the game that justifies its existence?
Is random hard CC on pets that will proc CC immunity on enemies making the game better?
Is it making the game more fun? Is it promoting more group co-ordination? Is it providing more skill expression? No, all it's doing is being annoying for the sake of whatever niche scenario whereby having a pet randomly toss out a hard CC is somewhat useful.
What it is coming down to, is that it doesn't bother YOU specifically, so everyone else just needs to "Git gud". Which is the attitude that I've experienced in my 20+ years of Tanking whereby anything that makes Tanking slightly less annoying is met by that same attitude for some reason (Always the Tanks too, I never see this sort of thing for literally any other role)
As with many features and facets of games, it's not always about what a specific individual may or may not feel about something. But what such a thing actually adds to the game. (Which is something a lot of developers forget, they add features in for the sake of having them despite them not really adding anything to the game. For example, the "Mount Traininig" in ESO doesn't add anything to the game, it exists merely to be annoying and maybe eke out a few shekels from people buying the Mount Training books from the store)
In this specific instance, the use of CC causing CC immunity in of itself, adds to the game. As it means you can't just spam CC to lock down enemies and in the case of situations where you as an organized group actually decide to use CC you co-ordinate which CC's to utilize.
What doesn't add to the game is the nature of pets, which are part of standard DPS builds, that either utilize hard CC as part of their activated skill (Volatile Familiar) which is a primary source of the pet's DPS (Meaning that not using it is artificially gimping the Sorc's damage potential for an arbitrary reason) or is a randomly used form of auto attack (Guardian Spirit) whereby the only way to avoid it is by not using your ultimate skill at all (Again, gimping Warden's damage potential for an arbitrary reason)
If a change was made where these pets either didn't have hard CC or provided a CC immunity that didn't prevent something like a pull. It literally wouldn't change the way YOU or all these other Tanks that play around such things do things. While mitigating a source of annoyance that is caused by some poorly designed skills that have hard CC included where it doesn't make much sense (Not only in terms of this specific tanking situation. But even for Sorcs/Wardens themselves who might have other hard CC they want to use at specific times but get screwed over because their pets are tossing out hard CC's all willy nilly)5 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No issue has been described in this thread that myself and a great many tanks have had problems with. We learned how to tank with the design of this game.
BTW, millions of times, dungeons and trials have been cleared without issue over the past decade. Zenimax has seen solid proof that this mechanic is not a real issue. This is proven daily and is why this mechanic will not be changed.
I suppose that's why this is listed as a "Quality of Life" suggestion rather than a "OMG THIS IS SO BROKEN, GAME IS UNPLAYABLE" suggestion.
Yes, it's possible to play around it. Yes, it's possible to do content despite this interaction.
But... What does this interaction actually provide to the game that justifies its existence?
Is random hard CC on pets that will proc CC immunity on enemies making the game better?
Is it making the game more fun? Is it promoting more group co-ordination? Is it providing more skill expression? No, all it's doing is being annoying for the sake of whatever niche scenario whereby having a pet randomly toss out a hard CC is somewhat useful.
What it is coming down to, is that it doesn't bother YOU specifically, so everyone else just needs to "Git gud". Which is the attitude that I've experienced in my 20+ years of Tanking whereby anything that makes Tanking slightly less annoying is met by that same attitude for some reason (Always the Tanks too, I never see this sort of thing for literally any other role)
As with many features and facets of games, it's not always about what a specific individual may or may not feel about something. But what such a thing actually adds to the game. (Which is something a lot of developers forget, they add features in for the sake of having them despite them not really adding anything to the game. For example, the "Mount Traininig" in ESO doesn't add anything to the game, it exists merely to be annoying and maybe eke out a few shekels from people buying the Mount Training books from the store)
In this specific instance, the use of CC causing CC immunity in of itself, adds to the game. As it means you can't just spam CC to lock down enemies and in the case of situations where you as an organized group actually decide to use CC you co-ordinate which CC's to utilize.
What doesn't add to the game is the nature of pets, which are part of standard DPS builds, that either utilize hard CC as part of their activated skill (Volatile Familiar) which is a primary source of the pet's DPS (Meaning that not using it is artificially gimping the Sorc's damage potential for an arbitrary reason) or is a randomly used form of auto attack (Guardian Spirit) whereby the only way to avoid it is by not using your ultimate skill at all (Again, gimping Warden's damage potential for an arbitrary reason)
If a change was made where these pets either didn't have hard CC or provided a CC immunity that didn't prevent something like a pull. It literally wouldn't change the way YOU or all these other Tanks that play around such things do things. While mitigating a source of annoyance that is caused by some poorly designed skills that have hard CC included where it doesn't make much sense (Not only in terms of this specific tanking situation. But even for Sorcs/Wardens themselves who might have other hard CC they want to use at specific times but get screwed over because their pets are tossing out hard CC's all willy nilly)
It is nothing short of a nerf to the game. That is not a QoL.
We do not play around such things. We have multiple ways to corral mobs together instead of being a one-trick pony. We have learned better ways to gather mobs, so they will be killed faster than it would take a slow tank to pull them in one by one.
So my suggestion makes much more sense.
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Orbital78✭✭✭✭Part of the issue is that some of the most popular dps classes have CC's built into their main rotations. Though for me I personally don't run the scamp pet. Arcs have to hold flail..0 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No issue has been described in this thread that myself and a great many tanks have had problems with. We learned how to tank with the design of this game.
BTW, millions of times, dungeons and trials have been cleared without issue over the past decade. Zenimax has seen solid proof that this mechanic is not a real issue. This is proven daily and is why this mechanic will not be changed.
I suppose that's why this is listed as a "Quality of Life" suggestion rather than a "OMG THIS IS SO BROKEN, GAME IS UNPLAYABLE" suggestion.
Yes, it's possible to play around it. Yes, it's possible to do content despite this interaction.
But... What does this interaction actually provide to the game that justifies its existence?
Is random hard CC on pets that will proc CC immunity on enemies making the game better?
Is it making the game more fun? Is it promoting more group co-ordination? Is it providing more skill expression? No, all it's doing is being annoying for the sake of whatever niche scenario whereby having a pet randomly toss out a hard CC is somewhat useful.
What it is coming down to, is that it doesn't bother YOU specifically, so everyone else just needs to "Git gud". Which is the attitude that I've experienced in my 20+ years of Tanking whereby anything that makes Tanking slightly less annoying is met by that same attitude for some reason (Always the Tanks too, I never see this sort of thing for literally any other role)
As with many features and facets of games, it's not always about what a specific individual may or may not feel about something. But what such a thing actually adds to the game. (Which is something a lot of developers forget, they add features in for the sake of having them despite them not really adding anything to the game. For example, the "Mount Traininig" in ESO doesn't add anything to the game, it exists merely to be annoying and maybe eke out a few shekels from people buying the Mount Training books from the store)
In this specific instance, the use of CC causing CC immunity in of itself, adds to the game. As it means you can't just spam CC to lock down enemies and in the case of situations where you as an organized group actually decide to use CC you co-ordinate which CC's to utilize.
What doesn't add to the game is the nature of pets, which are part of standard DPS builds, that either utilize hard CC as part of their activated skill (Volatile Familiar) which is a primary source of the pet's DPS (Meaning that not using it is artificially gimping the Sorc's damage potential for an arbitrary reason) or is a randomly used form of auto attack (Guardian Spirit) whereby the only way to avoid it is by not using your ultimate skill at all (Again, gimping Warden's damage potential for an arbitrary reason)
If a change was made where these pets either didn't have hard CC or provided a CC immunity that didn't prevent something like a pull. It literally wouldn't change the way YOU or all these other Tanks that play around such things do things. While mitigating a source of annoyance that is caused by some poorly designed skills that have hard CC included where it doesn't make much sense (Not only in terms of this specific tanking situation. But even for Sorcs/Wardens themselves who might have other hard CC they want to use at specific times but get screwed over because their pets are tossing out hard CC's all willy nilly)
It is nothing short of a nerf to the game. That is not a QoL.
We do not play around such things. We have multiple ways to corral mobs together instead of being a one-trick pony. We have learned better ways to gather mobs, so they will be killed faster than it would take a slow tank to pull them in one by one.
So my suggestion makes much more sense.
AoE pulls still apply and respect CC immunity, aside from rush of agony which I think respects but doesn’t apply cc immunity.
LoS wouldn’t touch cc immunity, but stunned enemies won’t move for a bit so it’d be too slow to stack low health enemies (big health enemies are immune to stuns anyways). DPS would still have to cover a large area to kill them all because they wouldn’t stack in time.
Running ahead and then AoE pulling before the group is there is what I do, but you still get stragglers with wider pulls you have to single pull and you also can’t usually get very far ahead so its a scramble within a few seconds. Of course, I could run ahead more by leaving as the previous pull is dying as much as possible but I would like to not sacrifice my loot every pull just to avoid a scenario that shouldn’t be happening because again, why do you need a stun on scamp or bear?
You’re being vague instead of just telling us how you’re somehow avoiding the problem entirely, there’s no secret method to never having an add be out of stack because it got cc’d by a DPS whose just trying to do their job, except to not run with certain dps builds or only do content that has a lot of big adds in trash or very narrow pulls.Part of the issue is that some of the most popular dps classes have CC's built into their main rotations. Though for me I personally don't run the scamp pet. Arcs have to hold flail..
Flail is a soft cc as it immobilizes, it doesn’t stun. MagDKs do the same thing with talons. Immobilizing is a lot less annoying than stunning because worst case scenario a ranged add moves out of the group (which they do anyways even while immobilized sometimes…). Soft and hard cc have different immunities, which is how we are able to pull and then immobilize but we can’t pull and then fear or stun immediately.Edited by Soarora on 31 December 2024 17:57PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
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the90thmeridianSoul ShrivenRemoving the need for dds to be aware of what theyre skills / sets do will result in worse dds. Tell them in group to stop stunning, pulling, taunting, etc. At least then they will be aware of what theyre doing.0
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Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gameplay doesn't need to be simplified more. This is just a l2p issue on the part of the players you are grouped with. It is possible to find better players to group with instead of simplifying the gameplay.
What I would recommend is getting a ring of the wild hunt. I consider it a key pug tanking item. And actually, it's widely used by trial tanks for trash pulls too.
It allows me to get to the trash pack ahead of the rest of the group and get it nicely stacked -- and probably half dead if it's a normal -- by the time the rest of the group arrives.spending a year dead for tax reasons0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No issue has been described in this thread that myself and a great many tanks have had problems with. We learned how to tank with the design of this game.
BTW, millions of times, dungeons and trials have been cleared without issue over the past decade. Zenimax has seen solid proof that this mechanic is not a real issue. This is proven daily and is why this mechanic will not be changed.
I suppose that's why this is listed as a "Quality of Life" suggestion rather than a "OMG THIS IS SO BROKEN, GAME IS UNPLAYABLE" suggestion.
Yes, it's possible to play around it. Yes, it's possible to do content despite this interaction.
But... What does this interaction actually provide to the game that justifies its existence?
Is random hard CC on pets that will proc CC immunity on enemies making the game better?
Is it making the game more fun? Is it promoting more group co-ordination? Is it providing more skill expression? No, all it's doing is being annoying for the sake of whatever niche scenario whereby having a pet randomly toss out a hard CC is somewhat useful.
What it is coming down to, is that it doesn't bother YOU specifically, so everyone else just needs to "Git gud". Which is the attitude that I've experienced in my 20+ years of Tanking whereby anything that makes Tanking slightly less annoying is met by that same attitude for some reason (Always the Tanks too, I never see this sort of thing for literally any other role)
As with many features and facets of games, it's not always about what a specific individual may or may not feel about something. But what such a thing actually adds to the game. (Which is something a lot of developers forget, they add features in for the sake of having them despite them not really adding anything to the game. For example, the "Mount Traininig" in ESO doesn't add anything to the game, it exists merely to be annoying and maybe eke out a few shekels from people buying the Mount Training books from the store)
In this specific instance, the use of CC causing CC immunity in of itself, adds to the game. As it means you can't just spam CC to lock down enemies and in the case of situations where you as an organized group actually decide to use CC you co-ordinate which CC's to utilize.
What doesn't add to the game is the nature of pets, which are part of standard DPS builds, that either utilize hard CC as part of their activated skill (Volatile Familiar) which is a primary source of the pet's DPS (Meaning that not using it is artificially gimping the Sorc's damage potential for an arbitrary reason) or is a randomly used form of auto attack (Guardian Spirit) whereby the only way to avoid it is by not using your ultimate skill at all (Again, gimping Warden's damage potential for an arbitrary reason)
If a change was made where these pets either didn't have hard CC or provided a CC immunity that didn't prevent something like a pull. It literally wouldn't change the way YOU or all these other Tanks that play around such things do things. While mitigating a source of annoyance that is caused by some poorly designed skills that have hard CC included where it doesn't make much sense (Not only in terms of this specific tanking situation. But even for Sorcs/Wardens themselves who might have other hard CC they want to use at specific times but get screwed over because their pets are tossing out hard CC's all willy nilly)
It is nothing short of a nerf to the game. That is not a QoL.
We do not play around such things. We have multiple ways to corral mobs together instead of being a one-trick pony. We have learned better ways to gather mobs, so they will be killed faster than it would take a slow tank to pull them in one by one.
So my suggestion makes much more sense.
AoE pulls still apply and respect CC immunity, aside from rush of agony which I think respects but doesn’t apply cc immunity.
LoS wouldn’t touch cc immunity, but stunned enemies won’t move for a bit so it’d be too slow to stack low health enemies (big health enemies are immune to stuns anyways). DPS would still have to cover a large area to kill them all because they wouldn’t stack in time.
Running ahead and then AoE pulling before the group is there is what I do, but you still get stragglers with wider pulls you have to single pull and you also can’t usually get very far ahead so its a scramble within a few seconds. Of course, I could run ahead more by leaving as the previous pull is dying as much as possible but I would like to not sacrifice my loot every pull just to avoid a scenario that shouldn’t be happening because again, why do you need a stun on scamp or bear?
You’re being vague instead of just telling us how you’re somehow avoiding the problem entirely, there’s no secret method to never having an add be out of stack because it got cc’d by a DPS whose just trying to do their job, except to not run with certain dps builds or only do content that has a lot of big adds in trash or very narrow pulls.Part of the issue is that some of the most popular dps classes have CC's built into their main rotations. Though for me I personally don't run the scamp pet. Arcs have to hold flail..
Flail is a soft cc as it immobilizes, it doesn’t stun. MagDKs do the same thing with talons. Immobilizing is a lot less annoying than stunning because worst case scenario a ranged add moves out of the group (which they do anyways even while immobilized sometimes…). Soft and hard cc have different immunities, which is how we are able to pull and then immobilize but we can’t pull and then fear or stun immediately.
Sure, I have been vague because it is more complex than just running ahead of the group, which should always be true for a tank. I do not dilly-dally after a boss or mobs are killed.
From experience, which includes seeing what other tanks do, I know exactly how I will approach a group of mobs. It is more than just running ahead and LoSing them for starters, where to LoS. Usually, I will pull multiple groups together, but I know how to handle that. When running with pugs, I ensure they know to do nothing until they see me stop. If they decide to pew-pew and get agro during the few short seconds before I stop, then that is on them, as every player should respect the tank if they want them to tank.
BTW, the same applies for groups that I plan to pull together. I have learned where I should stand to start pulling, which leads to pulling fewer of the mobs, and I am getting it done before the DPS gets a CC out.
I learned much about tanking in ESO and previous MMORPGs by watching what other tanks do. Learning both what works great and, well, what comes up short. I have never stopped learning, which is precisely what I have suggested in this thread.
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