DK should be banned from BG, or Nerfed, like Nightblade and Sorc.

Oblivion_Protocol

Do you want DKs nerfed because you feel it’s unfair that Sorcs and NBs can’t use their abilities while interacting with objectives? Or do you want DKs nerfed because you feel it’s unfair that their Battle Roar passive gives them an advantage in combat? Because those are two different issues. You can run a Chaosball or stand on a flag without ever touching another player, and you can turn a BG into a slaughterhouse without going near an objective.

If the issue is survivability, sustain, and the capacity to stand on an objective and not die, I’ll remind you that NB has one of (if not the) best burst heals in the game, Sorc has a shield that could tank a nuke, and both classes have resource sustain up the wazoo.

It can seem like it’s unfair for DKs to press one button and get all their health back. But they can’t do it all the time. If you’re fighting a DK and they leap on you for Battle Roar, just try to burst them down again. Keep the pressure on them. Get help if you have to. Just as NB has counters, so does every other class in the game, even if the counter is as simple as ‘do more damage’.

Avran_Sylt

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Do you want DKs nerfed because you feel it’s unfair that Sorcs and NBs can’t use their abilities while interacting with objectives? Or do you want DKs nerfed because you feel it’s unfair that their Battle Roar passive gives them an advantage in combat? Because those are two different issues. You can run a Chaosball or stand on a flag without ever touching another player, and you can turn a BG into a slaughterhouse without going near an objective.

If the issue is survivability, sustain, and the capacity to stand on an objective and not die, I’ll remind you that NB has one of (if not the) best burst heals in the game, Sorc has a shield that could tank a nuke, and both classes have resource sustain up the wazoo.

It can seem like it’s unfair for DKs to press one button and get all their health back. But they can’t do it all the time. If you’re fighting a DK and they leap on you for Battle Roar, just try to burst them down again. Keep the pressure on them. Get help if you have to. Just as NB has counters, so does every other class in the game, even if the counter is as simple as ‘do more damage’.

I mean you can run a chaosball, sure, but you can't streak with one.
You can stand on an objective without seeing another player, but being invisible on one doesn't do a thing.

You can slam sustain and healing on those types of objectives, of course. To which I'll give you that regarding the shields and burst heals of the classes you mention.

But burst heal don't mean crap if you don't have the resources to cast that stuff. Gotta say I really like the design of a single skill that both stuns, after which immobilizes, necessitating two break-free costs all in one skill-slot whose sequential break free's likely means a guaranteed Molten Whip proc to set someone off-balance. Massive resource attrition against opponents already on the class that themselves has great resource sustain. Seems like a real one-three punch there.

You know I haven't really looked into it, but I'd be really interested to see how slot effective DK Oaksoul PvP builds are against most other classes with regards to what basic utility boxes they tick.

Solariken

I saw you get over 30 kills on your sniperblade in a BG earlier today, I think you'll figure out how to adapt :P

Avran_Sylt

Solariken wrote: »

I saw you get over 30 kills on your sniperblade in a BG earlier today, I think you'll figure out how to adapt :P

Might I ask how many deaths of mine were associated with those kills?

Did I have zero?

Oblivion_Protocol

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I mean you can run a chaosball, sure, but you can't streak with one.
You can stand on an objective without seeing another player, but being invisible on one doesn't do a thing.

Yes, because of the reasons I laid out earlier. It would literally be unfair.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

You can slam sustain and healing on those types of objectives, of course. To which I'll give you that regarding the shields and burst heals of the classes you mention.

But burst heal don't mean crap if you don't have the resources to cast that stuff.

I know. But my point was that resource sustain is as easy for NB and Sorc as it is for DK. In fact, it’s actually easier. You can spam Dark Deal and Siphoning Attacks to your heart’s content. DKs can’t spam Ultimates for Battle Roar.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Gotta say I really like the design of a single skill that both stuns, after which immobilizes, necessitating two break-free costs all in one skill-slot whose sequential break free's likely means a guaranteed Molten Whip proc to set someone off-balance. Massive resource attrition against opponents already on the class that themselves has great resource sustain. Seems like a real one-three punch there.

If you’re talking about Leap, it knocks you back and stuns you. You only need to break free once, then you can dodge roll or block the Whip. I wouldn’t call that resource attrition in the slightest. I will grant you that CC immunity in this game is janky. But that’s an issue of poor game function, not broken class design.

Avran_Sylt

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I mean you can run a chaosball, sure, but you can't streak with one.
You can stand on an objective without seeing another player, but being invisible on one doesn't do a thing.

Yes, because of the reasons I laid out earlier. It would literally be unfair.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

You can slam sustain and healing on those types of objectives, of course. To which I'll give you that regarding the shields and burst heals of the classes you mention.

But burst heal don't mean crap if you don't have the resources to cast that stuff.

I know. But my point was that resource sustain is as easy for NB and Sorc as it is for DK. In fact, it’s actually easier. You can spam Dark Deal and Siphoning Attacks to your heart’s content. DKs can’t spam Ultimates for Battle Roar.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Gotta say I really like the design of a single skill that both stuns, after which immobilizes, necessitating two break-free costs all in one skill-slot whose sequential break free's likely means a guaranteed Molten Whip proc to set someone off-balance. Massive resource attrition against opponents already on the class that themselves has great resource sustain. Seems like a real one-three punch there.

If you’re talking about Leap, it knocks you back and stuns you. You only need to break free once, then you can dodge roll or block the Whip. I wouldn’t call that resource attrition in the slightest. I will grant you that CC immunity in this game is janky. But that’s an issue of poor game function, not broken class design.

How do you not know what Fossilize is?

Avran_Sylt

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I mean you can run a chaosball, sure, but you can't streak with one.
You can stand on an objective without seeing another player, but being invisible on one doesn't do a thing.

Yes, because of the reasons I laid out earlier. It would literally be unfair.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

You can slam sustain and healing on those types of objectives, of course. To which I'll give you that regarding the shields and burst heals of the classes you mention.

But burst heal don't mean crap if you don't have the resources to cast that stuff.

I know. But my point was that resource sustain is as easy for NB and Sorc as it is for DK. In fact, it’s actually easier. You can spam Dark Deal and Siphoning Attacks to your heart’s content. DKs can’t spam Ultimates for Battle Roar.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Gotta say I really like the design of a single skill that both stuns, after which immobilizes, necessitating two break-free costs all in one skill-slot whose sequential break free's likely means a guaranteed Molten Whip proc to set someone off-balance. Massive resource attrition against opponents already on the class that themselves has great resource sustain. Seems like a real one-three punch there.

If you’re talking about Leap, it knocks you back and stuns you. You only need to break free once, then you can dodge roll or block the Whip. I wouldn’t call that resource attrition in the slightest. I will grant you that CC immunity in this game is janky. But that’s an issue of poor game function, not broken class design.

Also both dark deal and Siphoning attacks consume a GCD that doesn't involve stunning or dealing damage to your opponents.

Are.... Are you not aware of the importance of GCD efficacy?

With battle roar you have a GCD where you stun, deal damage, heal yourself, and restore resources.

With Dark Deal and Siphoning, you have GCD's where you deal damage to yourself and restore resources. (with further GCD's where you try to circumvent the damage you deal to yourself).

Avran_Sylt

Solariken wrote: »

I saw you get over 30 kills on your sniperblade in a BG earlier today, I think you'll figure out how to adapt :P

I've had matches where I go:

30/20
20+/4 (got a lot of power relic spawns that favored me)
25/13
12/10
10/12
4/8
2/15
1/8

and

64/~2
(apparently a few weeks ago when there was an event and when I hopped in from Cyro to the new BG's and was obviously mismatched, I can only imagine this is what warden resource keep rotator's feel agianst AD khajiit. and for me personally it was boring, but engaging from a mechanical perspective)

These are not sequential. (Nor entirely accurate, but I do tend to die and kill a lot).

Give me a screenshot so I can try to remember what kinda game that actually was without you using it as a misinformation piece. I've had days where I just queue for BG's for a couple of hours and sometimes they blend. Matches where I get lucky with relic spawns and teams ignoring me.

But please, continue with a hit piece. one that resonates with readers that want to discredit this inflammatory article. I mean in a sense I'm doing the same. Glad that neither of us apparently want any good discourse and just are in it for the lulz.

moosegod

Some classes can do things better than other classes, that's the point of classes...

My very first PvP build, back in 2015, was a DK sustain build. The burst wasn't very high but could win any 1v1 by outlasting my opponent through damage over time and better resource management, that was the strength of DK. My next build was a NB burst build using two of the highest hitting skills in the game, because that is what they excel at.

I don't understand the point of this thread. Are you upset that one class can do something better than you? This is like being anooyed that a shotgun is better in close quarters than a rifle. My DK is better at carrying the ball but my NB is better at killing the ball carrier, them's the ropes.

Avran_Sylt

moosegod wrote: »

Some classes can do things better than other classes, that's the point of classes...

My very first PvP build, back in 2015, was a DK sustain build. The burst wasn't very high but could win any 1v1 by outlasting my opponent through damage over time and better resource management, that was the strength of DK. My next build was a NB burst build using two of the highest hitting skills in the game, because that is what they excel at.

I don't understand the point of this thread. Are you upset that one class can do something better than you? This is like being anooyed that a shotgun is better in close quarters than a rifle. My DK is better at carrying the ball but my NB is better at killing the ball carrier, them's the ropes.

Well. Yes?

My consistent best source of sustained damage against ball carriers isn’t even using my own class skills. (Those get use defensively outside of interacting with the objective).

Snipe/LA/Elemental(before the LA hits to land all three at the same time) is by far some of the spikiest damage you can deal.

I can’t use my class defense against the same when carrying the ball, nor can Sorc (through their sheer mobility)

Because as you say:

Some classes can do things better than other classes.

And in this case, majorly because the game decides that no, I do not to get to use my class identity for this objective.