BG/PVP changes

cytex_uo · November 18

Here is what should happen next update
1. 15 seconds in between rounds for deathmatch

2. 5 seconds at spawn point until you are pulled down into the field of play and spawn point invulnerable. (every single game I'm in theres atleast one troll either pop shotting from the top or just sitting there to waste time on the clock until it expires because they cant win a deathmatch. its absurd and supposedly trolling is against TOS but not in this sense oddly enough.

3. NO TIMEOUT if you have 3 deaths. how on earth can you be timed out, when you have 3 deaths and cant move. again i reported a player the other day (which they did nothing about per usual) who intentionally made two of the other players timeout and lose their AP bc they died three times and he sat up top and wouldnt come down to end the match. thats like next level troll but that trolling is allowed for some reason

4. while we are on the subject this exact same thing I"ve been screaming for 10 years about with IC. all spawn platforms in IC should be invulnerable. They cant attack or be attacked. how many times do we have to watch trolls exploit this hiding in spawn points above doors, or sorcs above mem on the wall above the flag. Or when they made that scribing skill to be able to pull ppl to their spawn point for instant death. IT IS A SIMPLE FIX, MAKE IT INVULNERABLE ON ALL PLATFORM SPAWN POINTS. or make it 10 seconds from spawning in for the pve kids to grab the quest if they want and instantly pulled into field of play

5. I have no idea how to fix this one but something has to be done about the troll tanks in bg's who are unkillable with 4 ppl smashing on them and all they do is sit on a flag with no damage just block and heal. That's more annoying than any of the above things

6. Award exact same medals for damage and kills as it does for healing. Healers are killing it on medals while the DD's are doing all the work. I'll take 4 DD's with cross healing over a full fledge heal only player any day of the week, yet they get awarded the most medals for no reason.

any other ideas I'd love to hear. Please pvpers only, I know pve'rs are catered to in this game and u want ur lil quest rewards but this is not the post for you. No pvpers sit in spawn points and try to attack ppl, or make a 60k nec tank to just block, so if you do, you know which side of the fence you are on lol.

Aldoss · November 19

7. Stop the purposeful stunting of Necro and shielders from the medal scores. It's so infuriating to have 25-30% of my damage not be represented on the scoreboard or 30% of my healing not counted because it came from a "pet".

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler this is a great action list.

Amottica · November 19

2. I suggest reporting those who exploit the design. Exploiting is against the ToS. And yes, Zenimax needs to fix it. That is a no-brainer since it is their responsibility to correct an exploit once it is reported.
3. I think Zenimax said they are looking into the timeout issue and said it was not intended. Ofc, how fast they address it is a question as we have major bugs in Cyrodiil (stuck in combat) that have persisted for years.
5. Balance has been an issue and problem Zenimax has not been able to fix. Unkillable tanks keep popping up.
6. One would figure a balance could be struck fairly quickly since adjusting the medal requirements is all that is needed.

EF321 · November 19

cytex_uo wrote: »

5. I have no idea how to fix this one but something has to be done about the troll tanks in bg's who are unkillable with 4 ppl smashing on them and all they do is sit on a flag with no damage just block and heal. That's more annoying than any of the above things

Isn't this what Bulwark Ruination is for?

evLRise · November 19

cytex_uo wrote: »

2. 5 seconds at spawn point until you are pulled down into the field of play and spawn point invulnerable. (every single game I'm in theres atleast one troll either pop shotting from the top or just sitting there to waste time on the clock until it expires because they cant win a deathmatch. its absurd and supposedly trolling is against TOS but not in this sense oddly enough.

Worst case scenario, the pull down timer should be slightly longer than the maximum time it takes to resurrect after dying. Jumping in alone in group 4v4 without waiting for your whole group to get back together is often just suicide. Also after 1 guy goes down chances are more will follow in coordinated 4v4.

If one of my guys would get pulled down before we're all back together the BG would be decided after the first kill, as there's a good chance you'll never be able to stack as 4 again.

Aggrovious · November 19

cytex_uo wrote: »

5. I have no idea how to fix this one but something has to be done about the troll tanks in bg's who are unkillable with 4 ppl smashing on them and all they do is sit on a flag with no damage just block and heal. That's more annoying than any of the above things

any other ideas I'd love to hear. Please pvpers only, I know pve'rs are catered to in this game and u want ur lil quest rewards but this is not the post for you. No pvpers sit in spawn points and try to attack ppl, or make a 60k nec tank to just block, so if you do, you know which side of the fence you are on lol.

5. You say you are a PVPer, but you are shocked a player blocks/heals and doesn't die? :O I hate to break it to you, but this is an MMO pvp mode. They are trash, always have been. I do not understand the constant want to improve trash LOL.

You really think PVEers are catered to this game? Azureblight was nerfed dude. So was Plaguebreak, and both of these sets used to be fun to use in PVE. Now both of these sets are barely usable at all. Seriously, why run Plaguebreak when there are better options after I avoid another zerg?

Thumbless_Bot · November 19

1,032,793. They will never nerf healing so Add three teams back. These troll tanks and heal bots will go away quickly when they have to take more damage than they can heal through. This is one of many many reasons 3 teams is better than 2. Anything short of this is continuing further down a rabbit hole zos created by implementing this terrible new format.

danko355 · November 19

Aldoss wrote: »

7. Stop the purposeful stunting of Necro and shielders from the medal scores. It's so infuriating to have 25-30% of my damage not be represented on the scoreboard or 30% of my healing not counted because it came from a "pet".

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler this is a great action list.

25-30%? That’s more like 70% in my case. Blastbones and skeletal mage deal most of my damage, yet they are not counted towards the scoreboard. Dealing 1 mil damage only results in 300k damage counted.

moosegod · November 19

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

1,032,793. They will never nerf healing so Add three teams back. These troll tanks and heal bots will go away quickly when they have to take more damage than they can heal through. This is one of many many reasons 3 teams is better than 2. Anything short of this is continuing further down a rabbit hole zos created by implementing this terrible new format.

Agreed with this. Damage is actually very high so it makes sense healing is equally high. A coordinated burst can still take down a healer. The problem is mostly in solo queue where players aren't usually as coordinated (not until you get into higher MMR). 3 teams kept healing in check because theoretically, a team had more damage coming in then heals going out. Now we have ballgroup BGs which is not as fun for a casual experience.

Thumbless_Bot · November 19

moosegod wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

1,032,793. They will never nerf healing so Add three teams back. These troll tanks and heal bots will go away quickly when they have to take more damage than they can heal through. This is one of many many reasons 3 teams is better than 2. Anything short of this is continuing further down a rabbit hole zos created by implementing this terrible new format.

Agreed with this. Damage is actually very high so it makes sense healing is equally high. A coordinated burst can still take down a healer. The problem is mostly in solo queue where players aren't usually as coordinated (not until you get into higher MMR). 3 teams kept healing in check because theoretically, a team had more damage coming in then heals going out. Now we have ballgroup BGs which is not as fun for a casual experience.

Is MMR working now? I see a lot of the same players on my toons but not sure if that's because the population is lower when I play or if mmr is working and that's why. I have two toons who I take in bgs a lot and two I barely take in.

Joy_Division · November 19

EF321 wrote: »

cytex_uo wrote: »

5. I have no idea how to fix this one but something has to be done about the troll tanks in bg's who are unkillable with 4 ppl smashing on them and all they do is sit on a flag with no damage just block and heal. That's more annoying than any of the above things

Isn't this what Bulwark Ruination is for?

It is. But trying to fix problems with sets is a poor idea because

The problem still exists
There are 30+ problems and I can only wear 2 full 5 piece sets
Gear shouldn;t be required to play the game
The problem still exixts
Not everyone might have the DLC, Chapter, or received the set
The problem still exists

xylena_lazarow · November 20

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

They will never nerf healing so Add three teams back. These troll tanks and heal bots will go away quickly when they have to take more damage than they can heal through.

Even if you absolutely loved the 3-sided BGs, there's no way you can say healing wasn't just as big a problem there, when the standard "high mmr deathmatch" experience was winning with 135 points at timer.

Thumbless_Bot · November 20

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

They will never nerf healing so Add three teams back. These troll tanks and heal bots will go away quickly when they have to take more damage than they can heal through.

Even if you absolutely loved the 3-sided BGs, there's no way you can say healing wasn't just as big a problem there, when the standard "high mmr deathmatch" experience was winning with 135 points at timer.

I can. It is basic maths.

When you are in a bg with a group of 4 or 8 and against a group of 4 or 8 respectively you have equal gcd for healing and damage.

When you are in 4v4v4 bgs you have twice as many gcd against your gcd and, therefore, more potential damage coming in, thus, you will die more. This was proved out in that format.

I don't argue that some bgs in 4v4v4 didn't end in stalemate, but these were a real outlier. Now they are the default.

Bgs are obnoxious and not fun now.

Edit: bgs used to be the purest form of pvp in this game. They were the pinnacle in my opinion and performing well in high mmr bgs meant you were really good at all aspects of the game, damage, healing, teamwork, even tactical things like los, flanking another battle, going in for quick hits and retreating. It was exhilarating and competitve and extremely difficult to excel at. Now it's not and that stinks. Maybe it's intended to make bgs more approachable to the masses, idk. But I, for one, miss what was the best pvp in any game I've ever played. It's a tragedy.

Aldoss · November 20

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

They will never nerf healing so Add three teams back. These troll tanks and heal bots will go away quickly when they have to take more damage than they can heal through.

Even if you absolutely loved the 3-sided BGs, there's no way you can say healing wasn't just as big a problem there, when the standard "high mmr deathmatch" experience was winning with 135 points at timer.

This was the last match I got to play 4v4v4 before the update:
https://imgur.com/a/LEz3rmE

Healing has always been a problem.

@Thumbless_Bot I'm not doubting your experience, but you should know that your experience is not representative of everyone's. My experience with 4v4v4 was very much that the power of healing was just as much of a problem as it is currently. They were not outliers, in my experience.

In fact, I remember healing and tanking be a MUCH MORE prominent experience because of how easy 4v4v4 made it to sit on flags and abstain from combat entirely.

Thumbless_Bot · November 20

Aldoss wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

They will never nerf healing so Add three teams back. These troll tanks and heal bots will go away quickly when they have to take more damage than they can heal through.

Even if you absolutely loved the 3-sided BGs, there's no way you can say healing wasn't just as big a problem there, when the standard "high mmr deathmatch" experience was winning with 135 points at timer.

This was the last match I got to play 4v4v4 before the update:
https://imgur.com/a/LEz3rmE

Healing has always been a problem.

@Thumbless_Bot I'm not doubting your experience, but you should know that your experience is not representative of everyone's. My experience with 4v4v4 was very much that the power of healing was just as much of a problem as it is currently. They were not outliers, in my experience.

In fact, I remember healing and tanking be a MUCH MORE prominent experience because of how easy 4v4v4 made it to sit on flags and abstain from combat entirely.

That's really fair. I think zos should just keep their promise and let us both/all play the way we want. It's not like 4v4v4 doesn't exist any more.

EF321 · November 21

Joy_Division wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

cytex_uo wrote: »

5. I have no idea how to fix this one but something has to be done about the troll tanks in bg's who are unkillable with 4 ppl smashing on them and all they do is sit on a flag with no damage just block and heal. That's more annoying than any of the above things

Isn't this what Bulwark Ruination is for?

It is. But trying to fix problems with sets is a poor idea because
The problem still exists

There are 30+ problems and I can only wear 2 full 5 piece sets

Gear shouldn;t be required to play the game

The problem still exixts

Not everyone might have the DLC, Chapter, or received the set

The problem still exists

They also have to build for it, if frontbarring one set counters their entire build, that's a good trade.
That is if set is even any good in practice. IIRC damaged blocked and block mitigation are two separate stats (and wording is very inconsistent across the game), reducing one might not be that impactful.

One single thing that makes permablock playstyle possible at all is heavy armor skill. Add cooldown to how often you can get CC immunity from it and permablocking is over.