New BG rules encourage trolling and ruin player experience

silky_soft · November 15

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

For those players that are negatively impacting an experience, please make sure to file a report. That way, we can address the issue. The whole team should not suffer based on someone not wanting to lose.

That's a slippery slope to take. Because I play on 250ms round trip and devs refuse to stream them playing on 250ms all these things negatively impact my experience. With the way the server works by taking first come first served actions and deleting all others. I can now report low ping players with 80ms round trip that get more actions accepted by the server? I can also report players who like to leave the battleground once they get killed a few times because it looks bad on thier kdr? (Which is directly to what you have posted).

Report players for playing DM instead of objectives? I can report an entire other team for greifing at a spawn, which is actually against TOS, after the first encounter or they score 4 relics then farm spawn for the next 10 mins? I can report players for using steak continuously because it's faster then speed cap? Can I report players that use the necro wizard pet or shocking soul because it's a projectile that takes me out of the new toggle cloak? I can report DK who stun then leap, effectively getting 2 cc timers out?

manukartofanu · November 15

Theist_VII wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

For those players that are negatively impacting an experience, please make sure to file a report. That way, we can address the issue. The whole team should not suffer based on someone not wanting to lose.

??? Is it reportable to not walk into certain death and end the game? If so why does it exist to begin with? Just force them out of spawn faster.

i think the "report" that kevin is talking about is for the bug report for getting booted for inactivity while spectating

I don't think so. I definitely read it as a request to report players who are griefing by refusing to engage in combat during DMs and therefore needlessly dragging out matches.

He's talking about scenarios that enable griefing and bringing them to ZOS attention so they can determine the best way to fix them. He's not suggesting reporting individual players for playing the game the way it was designed. Yes, sitting in spawn for a limited duration is allowed and that's what the Move Out debuff is for.

Right @ZOS_Kevin ?

Players hide, refuse to go down or run into slaughterfish in 4v4 dm just because things aren't going their way. They also run off the ledge or into lava. This happens when the team loses their lives and the dm is no longer 4v4. It's a fundamental flaw of the format that cannot be fixed without removing the lives component.

Disagree, there are several other possible solutions, and the lives component is the best part of the new battleground modes!

We need some round based variants too.

This problem didn't exist before lives were implemented and doesn't exist in non dm formats where lives don't exist. You can disagree with that all day and think lives are great but it doesn't change the fact that lives cause the trolling.

Dealng with the cause and not the symptom is findemental to issue resolution. Anything short of that is band aids and wheel spinning.

You said…

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

For those players that are negatively impacting an experience, please make sure to file a report. That way, we can address the issue. The whole team should not suffer based on someone not wanting to lose.

??? Is it reportable to not walk into certain death and end the game? If so why does it exist to begin with? Just force them out of spawn faster.

i think the "report" that kevin is talking about is for the bug report for getting booted for inactivity while spectating

I don't think so. I definitely read it as a request to report players who are griefing by refusing to engage in combat during DMs and therefore needlessly dragging out matches.

He's talking about scenarios that enable griefing and bringing them to ZOS attention so they can determine the best way to fix them. He's not suggesting reporting individual players for playing the game the way it was designed. Yes, sitting in spawn for a limited duration is allowed and that's what the Move Out debuff is for.

Right @ZOS_Kevin ?

It's a fundamental flaw of the format that cannot be fixed without removing the lives component.

…this is what I’m disagreeing with. They can fix the format without removing the lives component, this isn’t an entirely new concept. There are countless Elimination modes in games that have gotten this down to a science, and any solution of theirs could be twisted to fit ESO without destroying the identity of the new mode they are trying to establish.

It won't fix the trolling. That is the point of this thread. Either live with the trolls or remove the lives.

Or they could…
Spawn people inside of the actual arena.

Reduce the timer people can remain at spawn.

Allow players to Charm or Pull others off of spawn.

Mitigate the likelihood of lopsided lobbies by putting smart systems in place, like role-based queueing, an armory station, a reputation system, ect…

Going backwards should be a direction that is used when there are no other options.

A player might not even respawn and just end up watching their corpse, so none of the proposed solutions actually fix the issue. With 3 lives, they could lie there twice, which is plenty of time for their teammates to get kicked for inactivity. Even if they somehow fix the inactivity kick bug, waiting around for two 5-minute rounds while a troll is stalling is hardly any better. That might actually be worse than the kick penalty itself.

Moreover, if 3 players are down and the 4th is trolling, that’s actually one of the simplest scenarios that could happen. This is simply bad design that should have been shut down at the idea stage and definitely should never have made it live.

Another issue caused by this life-count system: one player leaves, and you’re down to three. You’re nearly finished with the match, the last teammate dies, but a second before that, a 4th player joins your team. Now what? You can only hope they’re not a troll, and in the best case, you still have to wait another minute while they lose all three lives.

What happens if two players leave early? Get ready for some fun, because it can happen twice. Even in the best-case scenario, you’ll be praying that you don’t get kicked for inactivity.

And trolls haven’t even started trying to break this mode yet. Stalling is possible, even without staying in the spawn zone.

Thumbless_Bot · November 15

manukartofanu wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

For those players that are negatively impacting an experience, please make sure to file a report. That way, we can address the issue. The whole team should not suffer based on someone not wanting to lose.

??? Is it reportable to not walk into certain death and end the game? If so why does it exist to begin with? Just force them out of spawn faster.

i think the "report" that kevin is talking about is for the bug report for getting booted for inactivity while spectating

I don't think so. I definitely read it as a request to report players who are griefing by refusing to engage in combat during DMs and therefore needlessly dragging out matches.

He's talking about scenarios that enable griefing and bringing them to ZOS attention so they can determine the best way to fix them. He's not suggesting reporting individual players for playing the game the way it was designed. Yes, sitting in spawn for a limited duration is allowed and that's what the Move Out debuff is for.

Right @ZOS_Kevin ?

Players hide, refuse to go down or run into slaughterfish in 4v4 dm just because things aren't going their way. They also run off the ledge or into lava. This happens when the team loses their lives and the dm is no longer 4v4. It's a fundamental flaw of the format that cannot be fixed without removing the lives component.

Disagree, there are several other possible solutions, and the lives component is the best part of the new battleground modes!

We need some round based variants too.

This problem didn't exist before lives were implemented and doesn't exist in non dm formats where lives don't exist. You can disagree with that all day and think lives are great but it doesn't change the fact that lives cause the trolling.

Dealng with the cause and not the symptom is findemental to issue resolution. Anything short of that is band aids and wheel spinning.

You said…

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

For those players that are negatively impacting an experience, please make sure to file a report. That way, we can address the issue. The whole team should not suffer based on someone not wanting to lose.

??? Is it reportable to not walk into certain death and end the game? If so why does it exist to begin with? Just force them out of spawn faster.

i think the "report" that kevin is talking about is for the bug report for getting booted for inactivity while spectating

I don't think so. I definitely read it as a request to report players who are griefing by refusing to engage in combat during DMs and therefore needlessly dragging out matches.

He's talking about scenarios that enable griefing and bringing them to ZOS attention so they can determine the best way to fix them. He's not suggesting reporting individual players for playing the game the way it was designed. Yes, sitting in spawn for a limited duration is allowed and that's what the Move Out debuff is for.

Right @ZOS_Kevin ?

It's a fundamental flaw of the format that cannot be fixed without removing the lives component.

…this is what I’m disagreeing with. They can fix the format without removing the lives component, this isn’t an entirely new concept. There are countless Elimination modes in games that have gotten this down to a science, and any solution of theirs could be twisted to fit ESO without destroying the identity of the new mode they are trying to establish.

It won't fix the trolling. That is the point of this thread. Either live with the trolls or remove the lives.

Or they could…
Spawn people inside of the actual arena.

Reduce the timer people can remain at spawn.

Allow players to Charm or Pull others off of spawn.

Mitigate the likelihood of lopsided lobbies by putting smart systems in place, like role-based queueing, an armory station, a reputation system, ect…

Going backwards should be a direction that is used when there are no other options.

A player might not even respawn and just end up watching their corpse, so none of the proposed solutions actually fix the issue. With 3 lives, they could lie there twice, which is plenty of time for their teammates to get kicked for inactivity. Even if they somehow fix the inactivity kick bug, waiting around for two 5-minute rounds while a troll is stalling is hardly any better. That might actually be worse than the kick penalty itself.

Moreover, if 3 players are down and the 4th is trolling, that’s actually one of the simplest scenarios that could happen. This is simply bad design that should have been shut down at the idea stage and definitely should never have made it live.

Another issue caused by this life-count system: one player leaves, and you’re down to three. You’re nearly finished with the match, the last teammate dies, but a second before that, a 4th player joins your team. Now what? You can only hope they’re not a troll, and in the best case, you still have to wait another minute while they lose all three lives.

What happens if two players leave early? Get ready for some fun, because it can happen twice. Even in the best-case scenario, you’ll be praying that you don’t get kicked for inactivity.

And trolls haven’t even started trying to break this mode yet. Stalling is possible, even without staying in the spawn zone.

This is exactly why root cause analysis is needed.