Can we please get some answers about the future of PVP? @ZOS_Kevin

Smashadamz

I quit WoW and numerous other MMOs for the same thing. PVE side has more players= more care, PVP goes on life support even though so many people want to love it. There are glaring issues that could be fixed in 1 hour with a hotfix but we get radio silence for large amounts of time. Why don't all of these good suggestions get replies? I play this game, possibly the MOST out of anyone on NA, for specifically BGs. There is absolutely no way that the devs or team that works on PVP actually play it daily or anything past "testing". We want to know what you are going to do about cross healing, every other post is about it. We want to know why in 4v4 non deathmatch games start with 1 objective so it turns into whoever just gets to it faster and then self heals/tanks for 5mins. We want to know why there are lobbies being started without enough people when dungeons and other systems in-game already have UI in place that won't start the activity until everyone is ready. We want to know why there are medal based leaderboards that no one wants. They should be removed entirely and the only thing that should matter is Win/Loss with a way to see your rating go up or down, it just makes even more healers/tanks due to getting high score. I've been rank 1 multiple times just by going aoe healing over time build for 1 day of the 7 and getting insane points whereas when I'm dmg you get 1/4 the amount, which shouldn't even matter! You can lose every single game but if you are healing you will be rank 1 for the week? So between medals not being fair across the board and the fact it is just time put in, no one actually cares about it. Just because there isn't a better game to fit what we want to play, doesn't mean you all should just give up and look at charts to determine what changes to make. I would love to have a chat through voice or email with the dev team if they want to hear from someone who literally NO-LIFEs MMOs to help them hear what hardcore AND casuals want. Some of the new changes have been great but overall it has just shown the issues that the game already has and it is showcased even more. With having a streamer event soon with one of the biggest youtubers SypherPK, you have a real chance to get so many people back into this game for the pvp, if I was him and played some matches, it is just going to show how bad the systems are at the moment. I already made a previous post on changes that could be done overnight that the community talks about often. We just need more open communication, your PVP players feel like you don't care. The saddest thing is all the people holding out hope because of this games insane potential to be great. I can't speak for everyone in the community but posts like these are not to say the game is trash and no one should play it, it is us reaching out and hoping you all will put time and energy into a game we love being a part of. Please open the lines of communication up and show us you want to make PVP more fun for everyone.
- Smashadamz

Smashadamz

After giving it some time, I decided to vote the only way I know how, I unsubscribed. The only real communication I've seen on forums is the dev team moving posts to new categories and no "real" answers to very real questions. The streaming event turned out like I thought with big streamers not only showcasing the problems we all talk about but even pulling up videos of how the game "used to be" really fun. I don't want to leave on a negative note, and if you are enjoying the game by all means keep at it! I just don't feel like it is a game I see a future or want to spend time in anymore with the choices they have made. Which sadly is the 3rd time this has happened over the years, so it will probably be the last. GGs to everyone and I hope they make positive moves in the future.
- Smash

gariondavey

@ZOS_Kevin please check out this thread

Rhaegar75

Smashadamz wrote: »

I quit WoW and numerous other MMOs for the same thing. PVE side has more players= more care, PVP goes on life support even though so many people want to love it. There are glaring issues that could be fixed in 1 hour with a hotfix but we get radio silence for large amounts of time. Why don't all of these good suggestions get replies? I play this game, possibly the MOST out of anyone on NA, for specifically BGs. There is absolutely no way that the devs or team that works on PVP actually play it daily or anything past "testing". We want to know what you are going to do about cross healing, every other post is about it. We want to know why in 4v4 non deathmatch games start with 1 objective so it turns into whoever just gets to it faster and then self heals/tanks for 5mins. We want to know why there are lobbies being started without enough people when dungeons and other systems in-game already have UI in place that won't start the activity until everyone is ready. We want to know why there are medal based leaderboards that no one wants. They should be removed entirely and the only thing that should matter is Win/Loss with a way to see your rating go up or down, it just makes even more healers/tanks due to getting high score. I've been rank 1 multiple times just by going aoe healing over time build for 1 day of the 7 and getting insane points whereas when I'm dmg you get 1/4 the amount, which shouldn't even matter! You can lose every single game but if you are healing you will be rank 1 for the week? So between medals not being fair across the board and the fact it is just time put in, no one actually cares about it. Just because there isn't a better game to fit what we want to play, doesn't mean you all should just give up and look at charts to determine what changes to make. I would love to have a chat through voice or email with the dev team if they want to hear from someone who literally NO-LIFEs MMOs to help them hear what hardcore AND casuals want. Some of the new changes have been great but overall it has just shown the issues that the game already has and it is showcased even more. With having a streamer event soon with one of the biggest youtubers SypherPK, you have a real chance to get so many people back into this game for the pvp, if I was him and played some matches, it is just going to show how bad the systems are at the moment. I already made a previous post on changes that could be done overnight that the community talks about often. We just need more open communication, your PVP players feel like you don't care. The saddest thing is all the people holding out hope because of this games insane potential to be great. I can't speak for everyone in the community but posts like these are not to say the game is trash and no one should play it, it is us reaching out and hoping you all will put time and energy into a game we love being a part of. Please open the lines of communication up and show us you want to make PVP more fun for everyone.
- Smashadamz

Fully seconded!!

Moonspawn

Cross healing isn't that strong. Pointlessly parsing pure healers is the real problem. Gotta focus the squishy ones.

darvaria

Well, considering Microsoft's position and the recent events with ZOS, can you really hope for anything substantial in the future????

Joy_Division

Smashadamz wrote: »

I quit WoW and numerous other MMOs for the same thing. PVE side has more players= more care, PVP goes on life support even though so many people want to love it.

You've answered your own question.

Combat team is tiny. Still haven't finished projects from years ago (hybridization, Grave Lord's Sacrifice, etc_). ZOS doesn't even have a full time PvP dev (the overloaded combat lead is also the PvP dev).

Moonspawn wrote: »

Cross healing isn't that strong. Pointlessly parsing pure healers is the real problem. Gotta focus the squishy ones.

All healing/Shielding in the game is too strong, too easy, and too accessible. Squishy healers are not not the problem because 1) they explode and heal nobody 2) don;t exist in good group comps.

Moonspawn

Joy_Division wrote: »

Smashadamz wrote: »

I quit WoW and numerous other MMOs for the same thing. PVE side has more players= more care, PVP goes on life support even though so many people want to love it.

You've answered your own question.

Combat team is tiny. Still haven't finished projects from years ago (hybridization, Grave Lord's Sacrifice, etc_). ZOS doesn't even have a full time PvP dev (the overloaded combat lead is also the PvP dev).

Moonspawn wrote: »

Cross healing isn't that strong. Pointlessly parsing pure healers is the real problem. Gotta focus the squishy ones.

All healing/Shielding in the game is too strong, too easy, and too accessible. Squishy healers are not not the problem because 1) they explode and heal nobody 2) don;t exist in good group comps.

I meant focus the squishy damage dealer. Focus the damage dealers by order of squishiness.

Smashadamz

Moonspawn wrote: »

Cross healing isn't that strong. Pointlessly parsing pure healers is the real problem. Gotta focus the squishy ones.

I would politely disagree. Most matches in 4v4 end up with 0 deaths on both sides. This is with just 1 healer on each side, many games there are multiple. You can focus the "squishy" damage dealers like you said but after your MMR goes up a bit those no longer exist or are very rare.

Smashadamz

darvaria wrote: »

Well, considering Microsoft's position and the recent events with ZOS, can you really hope for anything substantial in the future????

I am hopeful due to them reworking BGs. I don't agree with how they did and the removal of content. Even if the team is tiny there are big, meaningful changes that a very small team could accomplish.

Smashadamz

Joy_Division wrote: »

Smashadamz wrote: »

I quit WoW and numerous other MMOs for the same thing. PVE side has more players= more care, PVP goes on life support even though so many people want to love it.

All healing/Shielding in the game is too strong, too easy, and too accessible. Squishy healers are not not the problem because 1) they explode and heal nobody 2) don;t exist in good group comps.

I agree with this and will post a comment here from my previous thread on how they could work on this with "picking" a support vs damage dealer role.

First, I would like to say that I'm really happy that ZOS finally is adding content for PVP players. As an avid BG enjoyer over the course of my gaming life, battlegrounds in MMOs have always been my favorite. Yes, we can all agree that 7+ years for any sort of meaningful update reminds us that most of the player base enjoys PVE, the same was with WoW, but I think with more open communication and some constructive criticism. We could see players really try to get more into PVP with just a few changes. I'm someone who spent 14+ hours a day for months to get Emperor when the game first came out on Wabbajack, quit when there were bugs that didn't get fixed. I came back when they added BGs, quit when they didn't care about solo/group play for years. Now I'm back this summer and when they announced a "rework" for BGs I was VERY excited since they also added a few other things on the PVE side I have been enjoying. The forums are full of good ideas and posts about this update so I'm going to narrow it down to 3 things I think ZOS did good, the bad, and changes I would like prioritized or implemented.

The good-
1. They made chaos ball a lot more fun for people who typically ignore objectives. Turning into the WW or Vampire is fun and exciting.
2. I LOVE all the new maps, the designs and layout are great
3. They did a great job ( on some map/modes ) for instance dominion for 8v8 on certain maps is a blast, reminds me of old school Battlefield games where people were all over fighting for the same goals

The bad-
1. Tech issues/bugs. There are many and they already have most listed to be worked on, I personally have had 28 games not start with the not full lobby
2. Role Que- This needs to be implemented, in my opinion ,as fast as possible. I play support and during a 4v4 if there is 1 more support, no one dies on either side. I know it will take time but I think having a system similar to the PVE side of the game, when you que just put "Support" vs "DD". Yes, there are many different types of support but this I think is a great first step. Then have a system to where in 4v4 each side gets 1 support and in 8v8 each side can get up to 3max on each side. People can troll it and it won't be perfect but that seems like a good starting point and it would show ZOS is actively trying to make it a more enjoyable experience.
3. Cross healing. One of the most requested things in PVP has been to look into cross healing. My idea for a possible thing to try is if they implement the "support" role (as stated above) when you que into a match your healing would work as normal, but if you are DD it is cut by an even bigger amount with the battle spirit debuff. If not this, than each new target that heals you it is 50% less effective after your own healing.

Changes I would like to see sooner than later-
1. ZOS having a PVP or community member that is active weekly with the player base. Either someone we see in game playing with us, streaming the game, or a forum admin that all they do is talk about the PVP side of the game. When you look at these forums and there are posts from 5+ years ago, it makes it seem like they don't care, or lack of communication and updates. We just want someone who actually engages with us weekly or even monthly to let us know what they are working on and that they care about the health of the game.
2. I think many people dislike the "leaderboard" and if you go to any post about it there are many good ideas on how to make it better, I personally think they should copy/paste WoW's mmr style where you have a rating that you can actually see. Everyone starts at 0 and it goes up to... whatever they decide. You could have different unlocks for cosmetics at different thresholds that would give people incentive to grow as a player and try to win matches more often. Speaking of medals, I personally think they should be removed entirely from leaderboards and only go off of win/loss and you get more or less points depending on the other team.
3. This last change may not be popular, but I've been asking the players who are very active, veterans and new players, and a lot of people miss the 4v4v4 format. My idea would be the following... Only have 2 ques for BGs. One is Casual and one is Ranked. Casual has the option depending on how many people are queing to be the new 8v8 format OR the old 4v4v4 maps and game modes. Ranked would strictly be the 4v4 modes that they choose to leave in the game. I also have heard group queing is dead again on arrival so I vote for allowing DUOs for both modes and at least you can rotate with the friends you play with. The player base doesn't have a massive pool of players so I understand why they don't allow certain group/solo play, but I think duos would be the healthiest way and just having 2 things to que for.

I have a lot of thoughts on IC and Cyrodiil as well but for this post I mainly wanted to address BGS. My hope is ZOS and players both don't get discouraged and look at all the changes and together create a fun experience for all players. There are so many other topics I would cover surrounding the BG scene but this is already a lot of info to read over.

-BG Addict Smashadamz

Sluggy

Moonspawn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Smashadamz wrote: »

I quit WoW and numerous other MMOs for the same thing. PVE side has more players= more care, PVP goes on life support even though so many people want to love it.

You've answered your own question.

Combat team is tiny. Still haven't finished projects from years ago (hybridization, Grave Lord's Sacrifice, etc_). ZOS doesn't even have a full time PvP dev (the overloaded combat lead is also the PvP dev).

Moonspawn wrote: »

Cross healing isn't that strong. Pointlessly parsing pure healers is the real problem. Gotta focus the squishy ones.

All healing/Shielding in the game is too strong, too easy, and too accessible. Squishy healers are not not the problem because 1) they explode and heal nobody 2) don;t exist in good group comps.

I meant focus the squishy damage dealer. Focus the damage dealers by order of squishiness.

Which one is the squishy one? The one with 35k hp, 28k armor, and 3k crit resists? Or the one with 45k hp, and 85% damage reduction but only 20k armor? Also, which one is the damage dealer? The one stacking Vigor and Rapid Regen? Or the one stacking Vigor and Arctic Blast? They all have a burst heal capable of doing 10k+. And they all have at least two HoTs ticking for 2k-4k at all times on themselves and everyone around them. Which one am I supposed to go for first again? Yeah, these are the damage dealers. We haven't even touched on the tanks and healers yet.

Jabbs_Giggity

Why did this topic state "answered" when none n one from ZOS has responded?
I second, third, fourth, whatever number we're on for OP.

Moonspawn

Sluggy wrote: »

Which one is the squishy one? The one with 35k hp, 28k armor, and 3k crit resists? Or the one with 45k hp, and 85% damage reduction but only 20k armor? Also, which one is the damage dealer? The one stacking Vigor and Rapid Regen? Or the one stacking Vigor and Arctic Blast? They all have a burst heal capable of doing 10k+. And they all have at least two HoTs ticking for 2k-4k at all times on themselves and everyone around them. Which one am I supposed to go for first again? Yeah, these are the damage dealers. We haven't even touched on the tanks and healers yet.

The second one has too much hp and not enough armor. Plus he has 85% dmg reduction because he's holding block, stun him and kill him. Move to the first target, the only real threat. This is a 4x2, because the tank and healer are only there to be heavy attacked. If the second one is only holding block, this is a 4x1.