Bastian's Ultimate needs to be reworked.

Dahveed

People have already complained about this in the past: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580510/bastian-hallix-cannot-use-their-ultimate-right-now

But I just wanted to voice my opinion as well.

Everything about Bastian screams "I am a mage!". I mean, he starts with a destruction staff, keeps talking about how he loves magic, and when you read books, take him to a mage guild, or go to Eyvea, he has a positive comment and you gain rapport.

Then you give him a melee ultimate that he won't even use for me... every time it just says "he can't use his ult right now". I was so excited to get him to 20 to finally start using ultimate... This is such an incredible letdown.

Add to that the fact that he bugs out during dungeon boss fights after I rez him (his AI completely shuts off, I already made a bug report), and the fact that he just stands in fire for 10 full seconds like a complete moron and dies... I'm already losing faith in this godawful companion system after just ONE companion.

Do any of the devs even play their game? Why would you get me to level a ranged mage class for two weeks just to give me an ult that cannnot be cast from range? Utterly ridiculous.

Please change this.

SkaraMinoc

Even if you're in melee range, Bastian's ultimate is usually a dps loss because of the 2 second cast time. He might also die while casting because he couldn't move or heal.

I don't slot ultimates on companions unless the cast time is <= 1 second.

SkaraMinoc

Also Scorching Strike is Bastian's highest dps ability but it's somehow only 5m range. Seems low.

Taril

Dahveed wrote: »

Why would you get me to level a ranged mage class

Uhh?

All but one of Bastian's attacks are melee ranged.

Yes, he starts with an Inferno Staff, but his abilities are all melee.

It's like Mirri who starts with a Bow but all her attacks are also melee.

Ember is the companion that is most focused on ranged damage (Though Tanlorin and Sharp both have some ranged damage skills, though Tanlorin's ult has a shorter range than they will stand at with a ranged weapon making it more of a melee skill)

Dahveed

Taril wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

Why would you get me to level a ranged mage class

Uhh?

All but one of Bastian's attacks are melee ranged.

Yes, he starts with an Inferno Staff, but his abilities are all melee.

It's like Mirri who starts with a Bow but all her attacks are also melee.

Ember is the companion that is most focused on ranged damage (Though Tanlorin and Sharp both have some ranged damage skills, though Tanlorin's ult has a shorter range than they will stand at with a ranged weapon making it more of a melee skill)

I dunno, I just play him as he is (to me, anyway) obviously meant to be played., He says "o hai there I love magic", wields a ranged staff and talks about how awesome magic is all the time. His class abilities looked kind of crappy in comparison to his magic stuff, and he gets lots of rapport boost when I did the mage guild daily quests to unlock his mage guild abilities as well. Everything about the character's lore and progression told me he was quite obviously a mage, so I didn't really even bother looking at his "class" stuff which all seemed inferior anyways.

Then you get to his ultimate that he can't even cast, and when I finally do it's utterly underwhelming... And not to mention how dumb his AI is or how he bugs out in combat. I avoided companions for the longest time because I somehow knew they would be dumb. Unfortunately I was correct.

Doing their quests still seems like it might be interesting, and chasing achievements is fun. But it's unfortunate that (to my knowledge) there has yet to be a video game on planet earth whose companions aren't complete rubbish.,

Taril

Dahveed wrote: »

I dunno, I just play him as he is (to me, anyway) obviously meant to be played., He says "o hai there I love magic", wields a ranged staff and talks about how awesome magic is all the time. His class abilities looked kind of crappy in comparison to his magic stuff

So... The obvious way to play him is to completely ignore his actual abilities and instead use the generic abilities that any companion has access to...

Then complain when you realize that his ultimate is a class ability that fits with the rest of his actual abilities and you want it to be changed to be more like the generic non-Bastian abilities because you ran around completely ignoring him as a character?

Wut?

Like, at best I can see an argument for giving him an Ice staff instead of an Inferno Staff, given the "Tank" flavour of his abilities (Which would also go along with his self described affinity for sword and shield which is another tank set up). Or an argument for buffing his ultimate so it has a shorter cast time so it's more useful.

But trying to argue he's a "Ranged character" because you completely ignored his actual abilities is a little strange.

M1SHAAN

The fact that each companion has only one ultimate makes no sense to me. The companions have some strengths and weaknesses (e.g. Bastian's abilities not synergizing with ranged dps), but with weapon and guild skills you can still kit them all out fairly effectively for all roles... except for their ultimate. Bastian's is particularly egregious because of the melee requirement, but I don't think any of the companion ultimates fit well with all roles, and they're all damage-centric.

At least giving each of the companion weapon lines an ultimate would allow tank companions to use a tank-themed ultimate and healer companions to use a healer-themed ultimate.

PrincessOfThieves

M1SHAAN wrote: »

The fact that each companion has only one ultimate makes no sense to me. The companions have some strengths and weaknesses (e.g. Bastian's abilities not synergizing with ranged dps), but with weapon and guild skills you can still kit them all out fairly effectively for all roles... except for their ultimate. Bastian's is particularly egregious because of the melee requirement, but I don't think any of the companion ultimates fit well with all roles, and they're all damage-centric.

At least giving each of the companion weapon lines an ultimate would allow tank companions to use a tank-themed ultimate and healer companions to use a healer-themed ultimate.

Yeah, not to mention that some companions have pretty useless ultimates and Isobel's can even get her killed when she is tanking something.
Some generic healing/tanking ults would be nice to have.

Dahveed

Taril wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

I dunno, I just play him as he is (to me, anyway) obviously meant to be played., He says "o hai there I love magic", wields a ranged staff and talks about how awesome magic is all the time. His class abilities looked kind of crappy in comparison to his magic stuff

So... The obvious way to play him is to completely ignore his actual abilities and instead use the generic abilities that any companion has access to...

Then complain when you realize that his ultimate is a class ability that fits with the rest of his actual abilities and you want it to be changed to be more like the generic non-Bastian abilities because you ran around completely ignoring him as a character?

Wut?

Like, at best I can see an argument for giving him an Ice staff instead of an Inferno Staff, given the "Tank" flavour of his abilities (Which would also go along with his self described affinity for sword and shield which is another tank set up). Or an argument for buffing his ultimate so it has a shorter cast time so it's more useful.

But trying to argue he's a "Ranged character" because you completely ignored his actual abilities is a little strange.

Then why in Oblivion did they give him a staff and have him babble on endlessly about magic and being a mage? And loving books and reading?

Name one RPG in the history of video games where a mage wielding a destruction staff is supposed to be a melee tank.

Whichever way you spin this, the design of this character is completely awful. If Bastian is supposed to be played as a melee character, give him melee weapons and don't call him a mage. It's asinine.

PrincessOfThieves

Dahveed wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

I dunno, I just play him as he is (to me, anyway) obviously meant to be played., He says "o hai there I love magic", wields a ranged staff and talks about how awesome magic is all the time. His class abilities looked kind of crappy in comparison to his magic stuff

So... The obvious way to play him is to completely ignore his actual abilities and instead use the generic abilities that any companion has access to...

Then complain when you realize that his ultimate is a class ability that fits with the rest of his actual abilities and you want it to be changed to be more like the generic non-Bastian abilities because you ran around completely ignoring him as a character?

Wut?

Like, at best I can see an argument for giving him an Ice staff instead of an Inferno Staff, given the "Tank" flavour of his abilities (Which would also go along with his self described affinity for sword and shield which is another tank set up). Or an argument for buffing his ultimate so it has a shorter cast time so it's more useful.

But trying to argue he's a "Ranged character" because you completely ignored his actual abilities is a little strange.

Then why in Oblivion did they give him a staff and have him babble on endlessly about magic and being a mage? And loving books and reading?

Name one RPG in the history of video games where a mage wielding a destruction staff is supposed to be a melee tank.

Whichever way you spin this, the design of this character is completely awful. If Bastian is supposed to be played as a melee character, give him melee weapons and don't call him a mage. It's asinine.

To be fair, you can be a melee mage as a templar or a dk.

Dahveed

Taril wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

Why would you get me to level a ranged mage class

It's like Mirri who starts with a Bow but all her attacks are also melee.

I hadn't started Mirri yet, but this is equally atrocious design.

Again, I'll repeat... what in Oblivion were the designers of this character thinking when they gave her a bow to start, if she is also a melee class?

This is just an insane design. Are we being trolled on purpose?

Dahveed

"Let's make a melee tank character... but give him a ranged destruction staff as his weapon and make him a mage."

"Let's make another melee dps character but give her a bow."


This design is completely insane.

And by the way, you don't get to really see the other class abilities until he has been significantly leveled, in my case for almost a week. So of course I'm going to level him with his default weapon and watch him burn things from range. How am I supposed to know he's a melee tank before I can even really see or test his abilities? Of course I'm logically going to use his default weapon and style that is presented to me. I'm playing the game for fun and immersion, so I'm not going to immediately google the min/max optimization guides of every side character before I play them, in the same way I'm not going to google and watch entire youtube videos of dungeon bosses before I play them. I'm not doing a homework assignement.

The fact that I have to discover "oh by the way, he's a melee tank" 7 hours into leveling him speaks volumes about the flaws in his design.

spartaxoxo

Dahveed wrote: »

How am I supposed to know he's a melee tank before I can even really see or test his abilities?

Talk to the companion.

This is what he says if you select "tell me about yourself."

Bastian: "I've had some mage training, so I'm pretty handy with a destruction staff. I'm also a decent sword and board man. You know, one-handed weapon and shield?"

He will also give you hints about his rapport.

Taril

Dahveed wrote: »

Name one RPG in the history of video games where a mage wielding a destruction staff is supposed to be a melee tank.

ESO.

Ice staff is for Tanking. LIke, literally, even for players, Ice Staff is for tanking (Much to the chagrin of Frostden DPS builds).

Also, Dungeons and Dragons... I've made plenty of characters that are tanks and use a staff.

Also Dragon Age: Origins literally had the Arcane Warrior subclass to let your staff wielding mage wear plate armour and become beefy and hard to kill.

Guild Wars 2 has various classes with staff being a more defensive option (Like Necromancer and Mesmer)

Dahveed wrote: »

give him melee weapons and don't call him a mage. It's asinine.

Ehh, in Elder Scrolls a "Mage" is simply anyone who uses Magicka.

In ESO you can have Magicka build Templars, DK's and NB's whom are using melee class skills but will still be using Magicka (And thus want a staff to use its heavy attacks to restore Magicka)

In something like Skyrim, you could use a melee weapon and supportive (Or destructive) magics together. Heck, there was also the whole Conjuration set of skills focused around summoning melee weapons and armour to go bop things in melee.

I know a lot of the "Mage" depctions from NPC's are bunches of nerds standing around in dresses reading books all day, but the overall mechanics of the series are that mages can be melee.

Dahveed wrote: »

And by the way, you don't get to really see the other class abilities until he has been significantly leveled, in my case for almost a week.

You can literally see all of their skills at level 1.

If you bother to look at them at all and don't just write them off as trash and ignore them until level 20.

Hell, the literal first thing I did when I got my first companion was immediately look at their skills, grabbed a bunch of gear from vendors to unlock the various skill lines and did a daily for each guild to unlock those skill lines and have a look at the skills they got.

Since, even though I wasn't looking up builds/guides I was curious as to what skills they had access to (And was curious about how to unlock skills, skill slots and the like because I had no idea)

Dahveed wrote: »

The fact that I have to discover "oh by the way, he's a melee tank" 7 hours into leveling him speaks volumes about the flaws in his design.

The very nature of him (And all companions) isn't that they're defined by a specific role.

Bastian can be a melee tank, melee DPS or a healer using his skills (His ult is more focused towards melee DPS however much like Isobel, Tanlorin and Zerith).

Same with all companions that have versatility between DPS/Tank/Healer skills. The main thing is the difference of range.

Bastian, Mirri, Isobel, Azandar and Tanlorin have multiple skills directing them to melee range either via damage skills with melee/close range, taunts or support skills that work in an area around them.

Ember, Sharp and Zerith have multiple skills that can be used at range allowing them to more easily fit into a ranged role (But can be melee too because a 28 range skill can still be used in melee range)

Sharp and Zerith overall seem like the most well rounded designs since they offer enough flexibility that their personal skills are useful in all types of builds (Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Tanking and Healing)

BixenteN7Akantor

Cast time on some Ultimates are horrendous. As said here Isobel's ultimate almost never does any damage because the enemy is already dead and it just makes her vulnerable while casting.. I'm gonna unslot her ultimate from now on

spartaxoxo

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

Cast time on some Ultimates are horrendous. As said here Isobel's ultimate almost never does any damage because the enemy is already dead and it just makes her vulnerable while casting.. I'm gonna unslot her ultimate from now on

You can change the setting so she only uses it if you want her too. It's okay on weak enemies.

LootAllTheStuff

Taril wrote: »

Also Dragon Age: Origins literally had the Arcane Warrior subclass to let your staff wielding mage wear plate armour and become beefy and hard to kill.

In all the games, Mages have the ability to use the staff as a quarterstaff for close quarters stuff. There are even blade attachments in at least two of them to boost physical damage when used in this way.

I honestly wondered whether Bastiaan wasn't going to turn out to be some sort of former Templar at one point. It seems more like he was intended to be a kind of utility man. (Good at a few things without necessarily being excellent at any of them.) Mirri seems more like the stealth character between her bow skills and shadow strike stuff. But like Bastiaan, her skill sets are still a bit of a grab bag.

LootAllTheStuff

^ Meant all the DA games.

Dahveed

Okay so now I'm on my second companion,. and I swear they have been specifically programmed to be completely useless.

I have Mirri and I just did a WB fight in which (I am not exaggerating) I resurrected her FOURTEEN TIMES during the fight.,

1 - For some unknown reason, she kept taking aggro from me. She has no taunts, and is currently level 6, whereas I am fully geared and at CP level 1200(-ish). She is probably doing something like three percent of the DPS in the fight, but the boss just randomly decides "nope, you're dead" and will concentrate all dps on her for a full minute.

(For a bit of context, I try to do a bit of RP and imagine that my character wouldn't just let his partner die. I have different heals and damage shields I apply, but no matter how much I spam them to save my companion's life, the boss just doesn't let up and massacres them while I spam heals until I'm out of magicka.)

2 - As noted above, they stand in fire like derpitty-derpers as you would expect. I guess "if standing in fire=true then move" is too difficult to code?

3 - During my first attempt on the fight, while the boss was wailing on her and I kept keeping her alive, she used her "roll dodge" twice (which was entirely useless to being with, since she wasn't standing in any fire) and in fact forced the boss out of bounds and reset the entire fight (when it was at 50%).

4 - She didn't seem to be using her self heal at all. Not that I could tell, anyway. Maybe there just isn't a proper animation for it, or maybe I didn't notice her HP change since I was spamming my own heals. But her AI just couldn't recognize that she was in trouble, so wouldn't heal herself.


I just want to roll the other points I've been making into a nice round ball to say that it's astonishing to me that after literal decades they still can't figure out how to make companions not completely useless, indeed even a hindrance. The actual RP and personality of the characters is neat, and the idea of having a companion following you is fun...

But technically, from a gameplay perspective, they are literally worse then useless. 90 percent of all the NPCs I fight in the game I just steamroll them anyways, so why would I need a companion to help, other than RP purposes like I said.

But the times I would actually need them in a fight to help DPS on a boss for example, their worthless AI gets them killed and they become more a hindrance than anything else. I guess I could sacrifice one of my own DPS abilities for a taunt instead, losing DPS... but the DPS i would then lose (and the hassle and concentration required to keep my ally alive) would mean less DPS output in the long-run, so what's the point?

The boss I just fought I've defeated before easily, so you'd think with an ally it would be even easier. But no. The headache of healing them, getting them to move (they almost never do), resurrecting them, slotting heals to keep them alive, and the general badness all-round meant that it just took me about three times longer to solo this boss than it usually would have.


So much for any "RP" allies. All I can do I guess is just pretend they aren't even there and let them lie down face in the dirt until I kill the boss, as though I were solo to begin with.


I've gone for years without using the companions, avoiding them because I kind of figured how useless they would be. Now that I've tried them I wish I hadn't. They are just as dumb if not dumber than I ever imagined. Even when they aren't bugging out and turning off their AI after a rez, or when they bug out the entire boss fight and reset it.


This is my last rant about this, I've gotten it off my chest. Peace out everyone.,

bmnoble

Or you know just give the companions more than one ultimate to choose from.

I was under the impression companions were not suppose to be static once and done things, that they were going to do more with them at some point, either more quests or skills later down the track, yet here we are with 8 of them and nothing new done for the existing ones.