What did the "Hotfix to Competitive Leaderboards" entail?

CameraBeardThePirate · November 1

The patch notes are so unclear on this and it's a bit frustrating.

The competitive BG leaderboards have a number of issues that have been reported here many times.

1. Healers earn way too much medal score, making it ridiculously easy for them to top score on the leaderboard and scoreboard. - This is the only issue that ZOS has commented on, which leads me to believe that this is the only issue that was fixed (which would be incredibly disappointing, as it indicates that they've been ignoring the other issues below).

2. Necromancers do not earn as much medal score as other classes, due to the fact that there are no medals for Pet Damage and Pet Healing, meaning their scoreboard numbers are lower and they have a harder time climbing the leaderboard. - This has been an issue since necros were released, and has never been commented on, acknowledged, or fixed. Now that the leaderboards have actual rewards and are being touted as "Competitive", it's unfair that one class is at a disadvantage compared to the others.

3. Shielders earn practically 0 medal score, since there is no stat or medal for "Shielding Done". Despite potentially being the most important member of the team, shielders will likely never even crack the leaderboard, as they earn a pitiful 500 score in an average deathmatch. - This issue has also existed since BGs were introduced, but has only recently become a real issue with the introduction of more shielding skills. Just like its unfair for true healers to earn an obscenely high amount of medal, it's unfair for shielder builds to earn an obscenely low amount of medal score.

4. Leaderboards are a cumulative score that only goes up. - This means that they do not represent performance, but rather # of matches played.

@ZOS_Kevin What did the hotfix entail? Did it fix all four of these? The patch notes didn't indicate what the fix actually did.

CameraBeardThePirate · November 1

@ZOS_Kevin Just want to add that it's a bit strange to mark the competitive leaderboard issue as "resolved" unless, at minimum, the top three issues were all fixed.

ZOS_Kevin · November 1

The note is focusing on immediate and function-related issues from Update 44 launch. That is what we are working to communicate and resolve right now. The leaderboards were not correctly functioning, so we needed to fix that.

Excluding #1 which we have noted is a known issue and we’re working on a fix, the other mentioned points are things the team is aware of, but not operation breaking functions. That doesn’t mean we are not going to chat and figure some things out regarding those issues.

CameraBeardThePirate · November 1

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

The note is focusing on immediate and function-related issues from Update 44 launch. That is what we are working to communicate and resolve right now. The leaderboards were not correctly functioning, so we needed to fix that.

Excluding #1 which we have noted is a known issue and we’re working on a fix, the other mentioned points are things the team is aware of, but not operation breaking functions. That doesn’t mean we are not going to chat and figure some things out regarding those issues.

With all due respect @ZOS_Kevin #'s 2 and 3 are basically the same problem as #1, just the inverse. I fail to see how the team could recognize the first as an "operation breaking function" but not #2 and #3.

SundarahFr3akinrican · November 1

This answer is still vague. The leaderboards weren't functionining in what way? And how are they functioning now that they are remedied?

Aldoss · November 1

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

This answer is still vague. The leaderboards weren't functionining in what way? And how are they functioning now that they are remedied?

Based on @ZOS_Kevin's answer above, it sounds like today's maintenance did not resolve anything on @CameraBeardThePirate's list. He acknowledged that the devs are aware of an issue with the leaderboard, but what that issue is has never been stated, and Kevin said specifically, "we're working on a fix."

"The leaderboards are still busted," is how I'm interpreting this response.

Aldoss · November 1

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

The note is focusing on immediate and function-related issues from Update 44 launch. That is what we are working to communicate and resolve right now. The leaderboards were not correctly functioning, so we needed to fix that.

Excluding #1 which we have noted is a known issue and we’re working on a fix, the other mentioned points are things the team is aware of, but not operation breaking functions. That doesn’t mean we are not going to chat and figure some things out regarding those issues.

I'm going to strongly agree with @CameraBeardThePirate here, Kevin.

"Operation breaking functions" is a weird statement. If that's the case, can you provide us with an official statement for what the "operation" of the leaderboard is supposed to be?

The purpose for most leaderboards (in whatever medium they occur) is to rank people based on their contribution of work in relation to their peers.

If that's not the purpose of ZOS' leaderboard, then I'd really love to know what it is, because I, as a necro main, would love to understand why my contribution to my team is always going to be diminished in relation to pretty much any other class.

Ren_TheRedFox · November 1

The BGs still don't fill up sometimes ... we literally just disbanded after 5 minutes of waiting.

Alaztor91 · November 1

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

The note is focusing on immediate and function-related issues from Update 44 launch. That is what we are working to communicate and resolve right now. The leaderboards were not correctly functioning, so we needed to fix that.

Excluding #1 which we have noted is a known issue and we’re working on a fix, the other mentioned points are things the team is aware of, but not operation breaking functions. That doesn’t mean we are not going to chat and figure some things out regarding those issues.

Why is #2 and #3 not on https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667619/update-44-known-issues-list#latest ?

If ZOS acknowledges that #1 is an issue and they are working on a fix, then why are the other two not on this list? Are they not considered ''issues'' by ZOS? Healing giving too much medal score is apparently an issue, but certain skills not giving medal score at all is not?

spartaxoxo · November 1

Alaztor91 wrote: »

If ZOS acknowledges that #1 is an issue and they are working on a fix, then why are the other two not on this list? Are they not considered ''issues'' by ZOS? Healing giving too much medal score is apparently an issue, but certain skills not giving medal score at all is not?

Aren't known issues usually bugs?

Like there's the way the current things are built to function, and those functions may be broken.

And then 2-4 are things that weren't added to the game in the first place, but probably should be?

CameraBeardThePirate · November 1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

If ZOS acknowledges that #1 is an issue and they are working on a fix, then why are the other two not on this list? Are they not considered ''issues'' by ZOS? Healing giving too much medal score is apparently an issue, but certain skills not giving medal score at all is not?

Aren't known issues usually bugs?

Like there's the way the current things are built to function, and those functions may be broken.

And then 2-4 are things that weren't added to the game in the first place, but probably should be?

Healing giving too much medal score isn't a bug though, it's how the game is designed - it's simply really easy to abuse and breaks the point of having a leaderboard.

#s 2 and 3 are literally just the inverse of #1 - something that goes against the purpose of a competitive leaderboard. If ZOS thinks #1 is an "operation breaking function" there's no reason #s 2 and 3 shouldn't be treated as such as well @ZOS_Kevin

spartaxoxo · November 2

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

If ZOS acknowledges that #1 is an issue and they are working on a fix, then why are the other two not on this list? Are they not considered ''issues'' by ZOS? Healing giving too much medal score is apparently an issue, but certain skills not giving medal score at all is not?

Aren't known issues usually bugs?

Like there's the way the current things are built to function, and those functions may be broken.

And then 2-4 are things that weren't added to the game in the first place, but probably should be?

Healing giving too much medal score isn't a bug though, it's how the game is designed - it's simply really easy to abuse and breaks the point of having a leaderboard.

#s 2 and 3 are literally just the inverse of #1 - something that goes against the purpose of a competitive leaderboard. If ZOS thinks #1 is an "operation breaking function" there's no reason #s 2 and 3 shouldn't be treated as such as well ZOS_Kevin

There was a bug with the healing and it was not functioning as intended.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Good Morning, All. We are following up on the reports here of healers gaining the top spots on the Battlegrounds Leaderboards. We have identified this is not working as intended. We have also identified the bug causing this issue for healers scoring above and beyond intended. We are working toward a fix now for a future incremental.

Once this is resolved, we will reset the leaderboards.