Greatly Improve BGs By Fixing These Massive Issues
ForumSavant
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The current iteration of 4v4 and 8v8 BGs are a great blueprint for what BGs COULD be, if certain issues were fixed, of which there are plenty. Thankfully, each of these issues has an easy fix.
To start, something that has already been pointed out, and something I have personally commented on plenty of times, the current leaderboard system is bad. It is just outright bad in it's function. Not only is using medal score as a metric for a leaderboard bad to begin with, because it rewards time played as opposed to how well you perform, but it also does not function well' As has been pointed out before, certain playstyles will receive very few points, as certain things are not rewarded with medals, and certain playstyles, again, without even performing well, can receive many more points than other playstyles. The current leaderboard is filled with mainly healers at the top, regardless of if they win or lose. To add on to this, there is no way for your total medal score to decrease. A system where you can only go up and never go down seeks to just appease people, not actually give them an accurate representation of their performance, and in turn has done the opposite, and upset many. Now, I wouldn't even be against it if it were at least painted in reality, but the 4v4 BGs are supposed to be COMPETITIVE and rewarding people with just time played, rather than win/loss, which is what the system should be, is just fundamentally flawed. I will add on to this and say, I was in a 4v4 yesterday, I was on the winning team, we ended up with over 500 points, which is the amount needed to end the BG, my team never died, we got plenty of kills, we had plenty of healing, and I had the HIGHEST score of either team, and my score was 560. 560 medal score for what is basically a flawless win. It just does not function properly.
Issue 2, players can sit in spawn for 2 minutes. This is WAY TOO LONG for a 15 minute match, especially when you consider they die and do this again instantly. You should be forced out of spawn in at MOST 30 seconds, Even that is an absurd amount of time to wait in a COMPETITIVE match for someone to leave their spawn, this also gives your other teammates enough time to respawn that way spawns are not split. This is also just half the issue. The other issue is, as far as I know, you are not even forced to respawn. You can die, and just not hit respawn, and force the enemy team to just wait for the entire 15 minutes of the match. This issue happens in deathmatch games, the game most competitive players want to play to begin with. You have a 3 life limit, but you can just choose to not spawn, and then not come out of spawn after you do spawn, and essentially troll the game.
This one is short, environmental damage should not exist in a competitive match. If you want to promote people dying, I understand, random environmental damage is not the way to do it.
Also. the pure amount of line of sight is uncalled for, and with the way ESO works, you can run around in circles around LoS and minizine your chances of dying. When you have a full team of players that are optimized, it's sometimes difficult to kill people to begin with. Adding such a huge amount of LoS when you can already receive cross heals from each teammate, adding LoS to a fight just makes it painstakingly long. I do not expect the casual players to understand this, but for people who understand the game well, they know this is an issue. I am not saying to remove all LoS, but having LoS in every single area of the area makes it near impossible to get kills on a team that is already playing well.
TEAMS DO NOT FILL. I had an enemy team with 3 people on it while my team had 4. I had 3 individual people que up, all solo, into group que, in an attempt to fill the game. Nobody got the game, it was not an issue of MMR, we all play an equal amount and perform well, they also did not even get a match by the time the game expired.
Trolling the que is a MAJOR issue. This goes hand and hand with the point above. If you que up for either a 4v4 or an 8v8 you have the ability to decline the que. Declining the que has a very small penalty as opposed to being in the BG and leaving. You wait at most a minute to re-que after declining and can que up again to decline another match and ruin it from starting. The players who accept will sit in the BG for up to 5 minutes, only for it to never start, and they can just be caught in the next attempt of someone to decline a que and make them wait again. Normally this isn't a huge issue, because it should be easy for people to back-fill the game after someone declines it, but this is not the case because
1. The system does not work properly as I've stated and tested and
2. There are not enough people queing to always backfill games even if they got in properly.
These are not even all the problems BGs currently have, I can write plenty more but this is already long enough as is, would appreciate any kind of response from a dev as some of these are major issues and can ruin BGs for the entire community and will waste all the work that was done for this patch.
To start, something that has already been pointed out, and something I have personally commented on plenty of times, the current leaderboard system is bad. It is just outright bad in it's function. Not only is using medal score as a metric for a leaderboard bad to begin with, because it rewards time played as opposed to how well you perform, but it also does not function well' As has been pointed out before, certain playstyles will receive very few points, as certain things are not rewarded with medals, and certain playstyles, again, without even performing well, can receive many more points than other playstyles. The current leaderboard is filled with mainly healers at the top, regardless of if they win or lose. To add on to this, there is no way for your total medal score to decrease. A system where you can only go up and never go down seeks to just appease people, not actually give them an accurate representation of their performance, and in turn has done the opposite, and upset many. Now, I wouldn't even be against it if it were at least painted in reality, but the 4v4 BGs are supposed to be COMPETITIVE and rewarding people with just time played, rather than win/loss, which is what the system should be, is just fundamentally flawed. I will add on to this and say, I was in a 4v4 yesterday, I was on the winning team, we ended up with over 500 points, which is the amount needed to end the BG, my team never died, we got plenty of kills, we had plenty of healing, and I had the HIGHEST score of either team, and my score was 560. 560 medal score for what is basically a flawless win. It just does not function properly.
Issue 2, players can sit in spawn for 2 minutes. This is WAY TOO LONG for a 15 minute match, especially when you consider they die and do this again instantly. You should be forced out of spawn in at MOST 30 seconds, Even that is an absurd amount of time to wait in a COMPETITIVE match for someone to leave their spawn, this also gives your other teammates enough time to respawn that way spawns are not split. This is also just half the issue. The other issue is, as far as I know, you are not even forced to respawn. You can die, and just not hit respawn, and force the enemy team to just wait for the entire 15 minutes of the match. This issue happens in deathmatch games, the game most competitive players want to play to begin with. You have a 3 life limit, but you can just choose to not spawn, and then not come out of spawn after you do spawn, and essentially troll the game.
This one is short, environmental damage should not exist in a competitive match. If you want to promote people dying, I understand, random environmental damage is not the way to do it.
Also. the pure amount of line of sight is uncalled for, and with the way ESO works, you can run around in circles around LoS and minizine your chances of dying. When you have a full team of players that are optimized, it's sometimes difficult to kill people to begin with. Adding such a huge amount of LoS when you can already receive cross heals from each teammate, adding LoS to a fight just makes it painstakingly long. I do not expect the casual players to understand this, but for people who understand the game well, they know this is an issue. I am not saying to remove all LoS, but having LoS in every single area of the area makes it near impossible to get kills on a team that is already playing well.
TEAMS DO NOT FILL. I had an enemy team with 3 people on it while my team had 4. I had 3 individual people que up, all solo, into group que, in an attempt to fill the game. Nobody got the game, it was not an issue of MMR, we all play an equal amount and perform well, they also did not even get a match by the time the game expired.
Trolling the que is a MAJOR issue. This goes hand and hand with the point above. If you que up for either a 4v4 or an 8v8 you have the ability to decline the que. Declining the que has a very small penalty as opposed to being in the BG and leaving. You wait at most a minute to re-que after declining and can que up again to decline another match and ruin it from starting. The players who accept will sit in the BG for up to 5 minutes, only for it to never start, and they can just be caught in the next attempt of someone to decline a que and make them wait again. Normally this isn't a huge issue, because it should be easy for people to back-fill the game after someone declines it, but this is not the case because
1. The system does not work properly as I've stated and tested and
2. There are not enough people queing to always backfill games even if they got in properly.
These are not even all the problems BGs currently have, I can write plenty more but this is already long enough as is, would appreciate any kind of response from a dev as some of these are major issues and can ruin BGs for the entire community and will waste all the work that was done for this patch.
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they already know about a few of these issues (queue and leaderboard problems)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667619/update-44-known-issues-listplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »they already know about a few of these issues (queue and leaderboard problems)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667619/update-44-known-issues-list
They know about healers receiving too much medal score but have yet to comment on the Necro/Shielder issue (in any of the many posts over the years on this topic, I'll add)2 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »they already know about a few of these issues (queue and leaderboard problems)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667619/update-44-known-issues-list
They know about healers receiving too much medal score but have yet to comment on the Necro/Shielder issue (in any of the many posts over the years on this topic, I'll add)
yeah im not sure what issue they have found with the leaderboards, it sounds a little different than that issue
the only thing i saw about it is that whatever the issue is they have the leaderboards locked for now and resetting them when its fixedplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS spent 1 month on a release of PVP content and in the end it does not work. I was in the Q 5 times today for no match played. a waste of 40 minutes! This is not even bad content this is content that does not work lol....PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables3 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭Even if they know about 2 of these issues, the others are just as bad. Nobody has any reason to play or que for BGs if they can just get trolled constantly0
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Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS spent 1 month on a release of PVP content and in the end it does not work. I was in the Q 5 times today for no match played. a waste of 40 minutes! This is not even bad content this is content that does not work lol....
Yeah, agreed... I was in the queue for 3 BGs (2 were 8v8 and 1 was 4v4) that got cancelled, so it was around ~15min, and I don't mind the wait so much as the fact that you are stuck in the entrance area of the map with nothing to do.0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Absolutely, I'm confused why the BGs spawn zones don't work like the Cyro town safe zones, where you can't interact with the battlefield in any way at all. Trying to grab a Relic and being shot by a bow ult from a guy sitting in safe zone is uh... tilting to say the least. Really hope that's not intended.ForumSavant wrote: »TIssue 2, players can sit in spawn for 2 minutes. This is WAY TOO LONG for a 15 minute matchPC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps1 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭Calling this new 4v4 format 'competitive' feels like a stretch with the current map designs. Every map is overloaded with pillars and walls, making line of sight a nightmare for ranged classes and slowing down the action. On top of that, some maps have environmental damage hazards, which just adds randomness and works against any real competitive balance.
Every game I played was completely one-sided. Once a team starts losing, it’s like there’s no way to come back—they’re just stuck waiting for the match to end or forced to take the 30-minute deserter penalty if they leave. Doesn’t feel competitive at all.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable3 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭Que system needs to be fixed before anything else, other issues are bad because the game modes are not competitive at all, but the games don't even start half the time, and they don't even just end quickly, you are forced to sit there for 5 minutes before it ends.4
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xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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I know I love it. Range spam is miserable. The more obstacles to brainless range spam, the better. Absolutely no reason why players should be able to sit in spawn spamming ranged attacks, especially not on an objective.Every map is overloaded with pillars and walls, making line of sight a nightmare for ranged classesPC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps0 -
seventyfive✭✭✭Here's my take on it: I genuinely think Zenimax does not want a truly competitive system "A la Esports".
I believe they've concluded, or at least made a calculated guess, that the damage of not having a truly competitive system (and still market it as such, creating unmet demand) is less severe than the damage of having half their player base dissatisfied with the results of a system that's more competitive than the current iteration.
Maybe these will be my famous last words, and I hope that is the case, I hope to be wrong.
EDIT: Oh and as we've all concluded in other threads, a more competitive system is completely meaningless until battle spirit is altered to make it less superior to build for heavy healing / shielding.
But altering battle spirit should be easy and well within the realms of possibilities.
Edited by seventyfive on 31 October 2024 15:100