Blocking access to dungeons for 24 hours for leavers

HoffmannTheBest

Today is the sixth time I've tried to go get Balorg's helmet, and the sixth time the whole group leaves the dungeon on the second boss. I suggest limiting access to dungeons for those who leave them constantly for a day. Maybe at least they'll start thinking with their heads.

colossalvoids

There might be a reason for the pattern to occur don't you think? Exiting group exists for a reason, not all the experiences are what people are looking for and easy exit is a must.

HoffmannTheBest

colossalvoids wrote: »

There might be a reason for the pattern to occur don't you think? Exiting group exists for a reason, not all the experiences are what people are looking for and easy exit is a must.

If a player doesn't exit right away at the very beginning, but in the middle - this is a reason to think about why he goes to dungeons at all. Exiting a dungeon for no reason - prevents other players from playing. Those who need specific dungeons - can choose them, there is no need to go to a random one.

I went to the veteran dungeon 10 times for the Balorg mask, and all 10 times half of the group exited the dungeon before or after the first boss. What is the purpose of going to dungeons at all, if every time you have to stand in a long queue, play for 2 seconds until half of the group exits, and then stand in a long queue again.

Okay, let them come out, but the more often they come out, the bigger the penalty will be. 1st exit - as now the penalty, 2nd exit - 30 minutes penalty, 3rd exit - 1 hour penalty, 4th exit - 3 hours penalty, 5th exit - 6 hours penalty, 6th exit - 12 hours penalty

This will make players think about their destructive behavior that interferes with the game for other players, and so that they go to gather a group of their friends/acquaintances, and not go to random, since they do not know how to play to the end.

I also do not like a lot of things in dungeons, and I only came out once in all this time, when I got stuck in a hole in Selene's Web and did not know how to get out. Yes, I died many times, all my equipment was broken, I was annoyed by one-shot attacks of bosses, but I never came out of a dungeon or Trial until the whole group came out.

Elendir2am

March of Sacrifices is one of hard dungeons. It need for you to understand mechanics. It has DPS check if I remember correctly. So it need all players to know job of their role well.

My apologies for asking, but are you sure that you are ready for this job?

To put it in perspective. I have huge respect for all brave undaunted (Understand the player who knows what to do there) warriors, who are PUGing in veteran dungeons.
With how volatile quality of PUGs is, that is high hazard activity.
That's is why I don't believe you got some unsaviour co players in all your try.

Soarora

People don’t leave dungeons “for no reason”. Based on the little context I see here, there’s not enough group damage to full burn 2nd boss. Most people don’t know the mechanics and rely on burning through that boss. If it’s actually before first boss even, then sounds like a fake tank situation. What role and setup are you using?

valenwood_vegan

When one gets to more difficult content, like vet DLC dungeons and vet trials, it's often preferable to find friends / guildies to run with.

Of course one can PuG, but there's a decent chance of getting a group that isn't compatible, or properly set up, or sufficiently skilled to complete the content. If it becomes clear that the group is going to struggle and potentially be unable to complete the content, some aren't gonna waste their limited time and energy and are gonna leave. Some players are just kinda rude or selfish. Random is random.

Adding harsh punishments to attempt to essentially "force" players to stay in a bad group and bang their heads against the wall may actually make things worse, leading to frustration and toxicity and further reducing the number of players willing to queue.

RomanRex

HARD NO.

Not everyone leaves for malicious reasons.

For example, sometimes people leave because a group member is AFK or toxic but others won’t vote them out.

HoffmannTheBest

Soarora wrote: »

People don’t leave dungeons “for no reason”. Based on the little context I see here, there’s not enough group damage to full burn 2nd boss. Most people don’t know the mechanics and rely on burning through that boss. If it’s actually before first boss even, then sounds like a fake tank situation. What role and setup are you using?

So they leave not only on veteran, but also on normal. The second boss is some kind of insurmountable force for them, although I easily fought him solo, but I just missed finishing him off, there was no one to distract the hangers-on. And after my death, the last player left, and they could have easily won

Why do they even go to such dungeons if they don’t know how and only ruin the game for players by leaving the dungeon. Here I was looking for a dungeon for half an hour and in 10 minutes half the group left after the first boss. Why should I wait 30-40 minutes every time because other players didn’t want to continue?

HoffmannTheBest

It seems to me that those who are against this, themselves like to leave the dungeon because they are bored or they feel that they are useless, and such a restriction will not give them such an opportunity.

kyle.wilson

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

There might be a reason for the pattern to occur don't you think? Exiting group exists for a reason, not all the experiences are what people are looking for and easy exit is a must.

If a player doesn't exit right away at the very beginning, but in the middle - this is a reason to think about why he goes to dungeons at all. Exiting a dungeon for no reason - prevents other players from playing. Those who need specific dungeons - can choose them, there is no need to go to a random one.

I went to the veteran dungeon 10 times for the Balorg mask, and all 10 times half of the group exited the dungeon before or after the first boss. What is the purpose of going to dungeons at all, if every time you have to stand in a long queue, play for 2 seconds until half of the group exits, and then stand in a long queue again.

Okay, let them come out, but the more often they come out, the bigger the penalty will be. 1st exit - as now the penalty, 2nd exit - 30 minutes penalty, 3rd exit - 1 hour penalty, 4th exit - 3 hours penalty, 5th exit - 6 hours penalty, 6th exit - 12 hours penalty

This will make players think about their destructive behavior that interferes with the game for other players, and so that they go to gather a group of their friends/acquaintances, and not go to random, since they do not know how to play to the end.

I also do not like a lot of things in dungeons, and I only came out once in all this time, when I got stuck in a hole in Selene's Web and did not know how to get out. Yes, I died many times, all my equipment was broken, I was annoyed by one-shot attacks of bosses, but I never came out of a dungeon or Trial until the whole group came out.

Many of the people you are picking up are probably doing LFG random for the daily. If they don't know the dungeon there's a high chance they drop at the start. If they do know the dungeon and realize that the other people do not have a basic understanding of the mechanics, they leave a bit further in. Some people just want to blaze through it, and if the others are too slow they bail as well.
I've had players drop from a normal dlc dungeon at the start, even on the ones that can be soloed.
I've also seen a bug where our 4 person group queued for a dungeon when one of the members was mid porting somewhere else. The game kicked that player and we got a random in our group that we promptly kicked. Nothing they did was wrong.

MidniteOwl1913

No, just no.

I'm sorry you can't seem to finish the dungeon, but you can't just keep people in content because you want to finish. Find a group of people who want what you want, guilds are a good source, and give that a try.

I assume you also mean 24 hours across the whole account? Because right now players can just log into another character to get around the 15 min timeout.

Cooperharley

No, this is extremely silly.

If i join a group and have a fake tank sprinting ahead being annoying, I'll usually leave. Same with a vet dungeon where a dps is pulling everything ahead of the group while I'm tanking. Why should i be punished for that?

alpha_synuclein

Get yourself a guild.

If people don't want to stay in a dungeon punishing them for leaving will not magically allow you to complete.

Even if they won't leave they can kick you and disband, go afk and not participate until kicked, crash their game etc.

Stafford197

Nah I don’t blame players for leaving.

ZOS created levels of difficulty with the Normal and Veteran sliders. They then intentionally created new dungeons which way more difficult and take way longer to complete than others, invalidating the purpose of difficulty setting. A total lack of dungeon balance is the entire reason for why people leave DLC dungeons so often.

Normal and Veteran should be standard across the entire game to the difficulty that we see in base game dungeons. Dungeon length should be reduced by removing a few unnecessary add pulls + the areas that you walk through to reach them. Bloodroot Forge and Lair of Maarselok are also prime examples of these issues.

I’ve done countless random dungeons and I’m telling you more than half of the time players will instantly leave when they see these dungeons.

Soarora

Stafford197 wrote: »

Nah I don’t blame players for leaving.

ZOS created levels of difficulty with the Normal and Veteran sliders. They then intentionally created new dungeons which way more difficult and take way longer to complete than others, invalidating the purpose of difficulty setting. A total lack of dungeon balance is the entire reason for why people leave DLC dungeons so often.

Normal and Veteran should be standard across the entire game to the difficulty that we see in base game dungeons. Dungeon length should be reduced by removing a few unnecessary add pulls + the areas that you walk through to reach them. Bloodroot Forge and Lair of Maarselok are also prime examples of these issues.

I’ve done countless random dungeons and I’m telling you more than half of the time players will instantly leave when they see these dungeons.

Nondlc dungeons used to be harder. People just are too used to content being easy now. DLC dungeons actually need to be more difficult, at least on HM maybe not vet.

colossalvoids

Stafford197 wrote: »

Normal and Veteran should be standard across the entire game to the difficulty that we see in base game dungeons. Dungeon length should be reduced by removing a few unnecessary add pulls + the areas that you walk through to reach them.

If the intention would be to get rid of people who are particularly playing the game because dungeons that would be the way indeed, but those are created for the specific audience who doing in strictly on vet+ and participate in power creep zos are introducing every year so difficulty should obviously rise with each of those spikes to offer a challenge still.

Normal can be whatever as that's the option for ones who do not enjoy it or care but want to get a skill point or gear. With soloable dungeons they've promised it would probably become a non issue whatsoever.

Stafford197

colossalvoids wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Normal and Veteran should be standard across the entire game to the difficulty that we see in base game dungeons. Dungeon length should be reduced by removing a few unnecessary add pulls + the areas that you walk through to reach them.

If the intention would be to get rid of people who are particularly playing the game because dungeons that would be the way indeed, but those are created for the specific audience who doing in strictly on vet+ and participate in power creep zos are introducing every year so difficulty should obviously rise with each of those spikes to offer a challenge still.

Normal can be whatever as that's the option for ones who do not enjoy it or care but want to get a skill point or gear. With soloable dungeons they've promised it would probably become a non issue whatsoever.

You can add difficulty via hard modes. Same goes for trials. I have every trifecta in the game and can tell you nothing should be as hard as Swashbuckler Supreme.

A Planesbreaker clear (Rockgrove trifecta) should be the peak of difficulty in my opinion. All content should be puggable, while achieving Hard Modes and Trifectas should be the prog.

Just my opinion though. I enjoy having a title on my server that less than 100 others have but I feel like it makes zero sense that this happens. Pushing score should be the super endgame that we currently consider certain trifectas to be.

WuffyCerulei

That’s gonna be a hard no for me. I shouldn’t be punished for leaving a group I find toxic or not listening. I will leave groups if I’m tanking and the dps refuse to listen when I tell them to stop running ahead.

colossalvoids

Stafford197 wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Normal and Veteran should be standard across the entire game to the difficulty that we see in base game dungeons. Dungeon length should be reduced by removing a few unnecessary add pulls + the areas that you walk through to reach them.

If the intention would be to get rid of people who are particularly playing the game because dungeons that would be the way indeed, but those are created for the specific audience who doing in strictly on vet+ and participate in power creep zos are introducing every year so difficulty should obviously rise with each of those spikes to offer a challenge still.

Normal can be whatever as that's the option for ones who do not enjoy it or care but want to get a skill point or gear. With soloable dungeons they've promised it would probably become a non issue whatsoever.

You can add difficulty via hard modes. Same goes for trials. I have every trifecta in the game and can tell you nothing should be as hard as Swashbuckler Supreme.

A Planesbreaker clear (Rockgrove trifecta) should be the peak of difficulty in my opinion. All content should be puggable, while achieving Hard Modes and Trifectas should be the prog.

Just my opinion though. I enjoy having a title on my server that less than 100 others have but I feel like it makes zero sense that this happens. Pushing score should be the super endgame that we currently consider certain trifectas to be.

Surely HM is the answer and it was for years but veteran is the intended progression route for it so it should also reflect the game's current reality unlike base game ones. Not like normal that is not much connected to the further difficulties but made quite accessible despite those getting relatively harder (if getting harder, as it's not always the case). Just HM having the difficulty rise would be not the best experience for actual newer players who need that progression steps, that's the older players who dive right in hard modes skipping other modes all together.

I've retired raiding since around Blackwood so my only trifectas nowadays are dungeon releases but I'm somewhat still aware of the climate there. Gladly dungeons never suffered anything like that comparatively and you still can do tri's comfortably without specific group comps or anything like that. I'd agree that scores should be the "sweatiest" part as it was years ago and not just barely hitting a trifecta if that's lately the case.

Just imo vet is more tied to "endgame" progression and not to normal mode, so vet is kind of in "almost a hard mode" territory and a step to it. At least should be to me, as it's yet again differ in different dungeon packs at least to my subjective feel as I'm pugging those at times also without my usual group.

HoffmannTheBest

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

No, just no.

I'm sorry you can't seem to finish the dungeon, but you can't just keep people in content because you want to finish. Find a group of people who want what you want, guilds are a good source, and give that a try.

I assume you also mean 24 hours across the whole account? Because right now players can just log into another character to get around the 15 min timeout.

Let them not get into randomness then, but gather a party if they want to go. In all normal games, for leaving the dungeon because you are tired of it, they give a restriction for a day, and the more violations, the greater the fine.

If you don't want to go all the way, don't go into random. That's all.
Other players should not suffer because your majesty is tired of running around the dungeon.

HoffmannTheBest

Cooperharley wrote: »

No, this is extremely silly.

If i join a group and have a fake tank sprinting ahead being annoying, I'll usually leave. Same with a vet dungeon where a dps is pulling everything ahead of the group while I'm tanking. Why should i be punished for that?

So don't go to random, gather a group and go in a group. I want to go to random, and why should I, like other players, suffer [snip]

[edited for baiting]

HoffmannTheBest

colossalvoids wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Normal and Veteran should be standard across the entire game to the difficulty that we see in base game dungeons. Dungeon length should be reduced by removing a few unnecessary add pulls + the areas that you walk through to reach them.

If the intention would be to get rid of people who are particularly playing the game because dungeons that would be the way indeed, but those are created for the specific audience who doing in strictly on vet+ and participate in power creep zos are introducing every year so difficulty should obviously rise with each of those spikes to offer a challenge still.

Normal can be whatever as that's the option for ones who do not enjoy it or care but want to get a skill point or gear. With soloable dungeons they've promised it would probably become a non issue whatsoever.

The purpose of this post is not to get rid of players who go into dungeons, but to get rid of leavers who prevent others from playing. If they want to leave the dungeon, let them create a party and leave until they turn blue. I will throw reports on such players until they start punishing them for preventing other players from playing. I, like other players who go into random, should not suffer because of leavers who endlessly leave for no reason.

One did not like the tank, another did not like the environment, the third does not like that everyone does not jump, the fourth does not like that everyone does not wear white. And now everyone has to leave because of such stupidity? There should be strict rules limiting such behavior. If you want to go into dungeons, follow the rules, and if you ignore them, then legalize cheats, and let cheaters run around the Battlefields. So what? And they will justify this on the forum by saying that they should create a party without cheaters and play fairly.

HoffmannTheBest

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

That’s gonna be a hard no for me. I shouldn’t be punished for leaving a group I find toxic or not listening. I will leave groups if I’m tanking and the dps refuse to listen when I tell them to stop running ahead.

So, gather a group and go in a group, and don't get into random, since you can't take criticism addressed to you. Why should they suffer because of this?

I've never had any problems in dungeons, including veteran ones, and I haven't encountered any leavers with players who constantly leave for no reason. No one died, they dragged the bosses, there was a little bit left until the end - everyone left. Where's the logic?

Okay, you don't want a restriction on access to dungeons, then here's an option: all collected loot will have to be removed from the player's inventory if he didn't reach the end, but left. I think this is a completely fair punishment for leavers. Left early - left without loot.

Look, in Crossout, for leaving raids (analogous to dungeons) - the player does not receive a reward. Quite fair, what reward does he get if he did not finish the content?

karthrag_inak

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

It seems to me that those who are against this, themselves like to leave the dungeon because they are bored or they feel that they are useless, and such a restriction will not give them such an opportunity.

Khajiit cannot think of ANY reason why anyone would want to abandon you in a dungeon.

Aggrovious

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

Today is the sixth time I've tried to go get Balorg's helmet, and the sixth time the whole group leaves the dungeon on the second boss. I suggest limiting access to dungeons for those who leave them constantly for a day. Maybe at least they'll start thinking with their heads.

Terrible idea. Truth is, you need to find friends/guild members and form a group. You will never have success Vet runs 100 percent of the time. Players leave because they don't want their time wasted and the DPS probably wasn't there. It needs to be.

kyle.wilson

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

That’s gonna be a hard no for me. I shouldn’t be punished for leaving a group I find toxic or not listening. I will leave groups if I’m tanking and the dps refuse to listen when I tell them to stop running ahead.

So, gather a group and go in a group, and don't get into random, since you can't take criticism addressed to you. Why should they suffer because of this?

I've never had any problems in dungeons, including veteran ones, and I haven't encountered any leavers with players who constantly leave for no reason. No one died, they dragged the bosses, there was a little bit left until the end - everyone left. Where's the logic?

Okay, you don't want a restriction on access to dungeons, then here's an option: all collected loot will have to be removed from the player's inventory if he didn't reach the end, but left. I think this is a completely fair punishment for leavers. Left early - left without loot.

Look, in Crossout, for leaving raids (analogous to dungeons) - the player does not receive a reward. Quite fair, what reward does he get if he did not finish the content?

The same thing could be said to you. If you want to group consistency , form your own group with friends

So, gather a group and go in a group, and don't get into random, since you can't take criticism addressed to you. Why should they suffer because of this?

Cooperharley

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

No, this is extremely silly.

If i join a group and have a fake tank sprinting ahead being annoying, I'll usually leave. Same with a vet dungeon where a dps is pulling everything ahead of the group while I'm tanking. Why should i be punished for that?

So don't go to random, gather a group and go in a group. I want to go to random, and why should I, like other players, suffer [snip]

How is a do’s running ahead of me and pulling the entire vet dungeon and dying, while simultaneously annoying the rest of the group and souring the experience for everyone, an ego problem for me?

[snip]
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

Ingenon

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

Today is the sixth time I've tried to go get Balorg's helmet, and the sixth time the whole group leaves the dungeon on the second boss. I suggest limiting access to dungeons for those who leave them constantly for a day. Maybe at least they'll start thinking with their heads.

No, I don't think ZOS should change the penalty for leaving a dungeon group. There are good reasons why people will leave a group, like multiple wipes on the same boss caused by something like a fake tank or low group DPS.

When I want to complete a veteran dungeon (or trial), I ask guild mates for help. Works for me.

HoffmannTheBest

Aggrovious wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

Today is the sixth time I've tried to go get Balorg's helmet, and the sixth time the whole group leaves the dungeon on the second boss. I suggest limiting access to dungeons for those who leave them constantly for a day. Maybe at least they'll start thinking with their heads.

Terrible idea. Truth is, you need to find friends/guild members and form a group. You will never have success Vet runs 100 percent of the time. Players leave because they don't want their time wasted and the DPS probably wasn't there. It needs to be.

If they don't want to waste time, they shouldn't go there. Is that logical? Of course.

HoffmannTheBest

kyle.wilson wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

That’s gonna be a hard no for me. I shouldn’t be punished for leaving a group I find toxic or not listening. I will leave groups if I’m tanking and the dps refuse to listen when I tell them to stop running ahead.

So, gather a group and go in a group, and don't get into random, since you can't take criticism addressed to you. Why should they suffer because of this?

I've never had any problems in dungeons, including veteran ones, and I haven't encountered any leavers with players who constantly leave for no reason. No one died, they dragged the bosses, there was a little bit left until the end - everyone left. Where's the logic?

Okay, you don't want a restriction on access to dungeons, then here's an option: all collected loot will have to be removed from the player's inventory if he didn't reach the end, but left. I think this is a completely fair punishment for leavers. Left early - left without loot.

Look, in Crossout, for leaving raids (analogous to dungeons) - the player does not receive a reward. Quite fair, what reward does he get if he did not finish the content?

The same thing could be said to you. If you want to group consistency , form your own group with friends

So, gather a group and go in a group, and don't get into random, since you can't take criticism addressed to you. Why should they suffer because of this?

Why should I create a group just because a bunch of players are preventing other players from playing?) Maybe it's worth isolating such destructive players, and not those who want to play and play regardless of whether they like the dungeon or not

HoffmannTheBest

Cooperharley wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

No, this is extremely silly.

If i join a group and have a fake tank sprinting ahead being annoying, I'll usually leave. Same with a vet dungeon where a dps is pulling everything ahead of the group while I'm tanking. Why should i be punished for that?

So don't go to random, gather a group and go in a group. I want to go to random, and why should I, like other players, suffer [snip]

How is a do’s running ahead of me and pulling the entire vet dungeon and dying, while simultaneously annoying the rest of the group and souring the experience for everyone, an ego problem for me?

[snip]
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

Well, let him run, since he has a lot of soul stones. We had one like that in the Fang's Lair, he died so often that we managed to catch up with him at a leisurely pace. He wrote something there, but we ignored him. And no one died, the world did not collapse, the apocalypse did not begin, no one's property fell, no one's self-esteem collapsed.

They made up their own problems and left. These are the ones who should create parties for themselves, not those who don't care who they play with, they play and don't leave because they didn't adjust to it.