Lack of gloomy atmosphere

kaushad

I think of gloom being presented in a few different ways.

1. Visual. Usually monotonous colouring contributes this. Grey is common, like TESV's Windhelm, but that would get old in every other zone, so it's good that otherworldly zones have their palettes. Climate can contribute to this too, as in Winterhold's constant blizzard. Intensely sunny, arid environments serve this end too, but that's the opposite of "gloomy" by definition.
2. Soundtrack. I must admit that even Oblivion used this, if strictly in dungeon spaces. In ESO, it tends to set the tone of whole zones. So in a way, it makes sense to me that most chapters zones don't have gloomy soundtracks. Perhaps Elsweyr, Western Skyrim, Apocrypha (definitely not eastern Morrowind) and Wrothgar. On reflection, I think that small zone DLC soundtracks were usually much less chipper than other chapters, but not really gloomy on the whole. Except for Clockwork City. I think that an aggressively/stridently cheerful sountrack can still complement an otherwise gloomy setting, but more of an easy-listening sound tends to mute gloom in other forms.
3. Story. Setting can be made gloomy by establishing an association with gloomy events. Harrassment, crime, oppressive occupations etc. I'd say that acute destruction by daedra, pirates etc doesn't cut it, although ESO's Imperial City does, because it's prolonged. Still, this kind of objective misery can easily be countered by cosy aesthetics and comic relief.
4. NPC dialogue tone. This shows us how characters react to the world. If we have a village in a swamp where strange creature snatch people away in the night, but the village act and speak the same way as your neighbours in a safe, quiet suburb, it's difficult to realy care. I think the example above with the hist sap prank demonstrates this. Maybe it should be horrific, but I saw as it as another case of event NPCs' death by silliness, like when they approach big, carnivorous, wild animals to ride or adopt as pet and get eaten. Whedonisms famous cut through gloom as well.

Syldras wrote: »

Considering the ancestral veneration of the Dunmer, it would make sense for it to be a rather solemn place.

I think every zone in Morrowind should feel gloomy. The Dunmer national identity is famously "grave"/"grim"/"gloomy" etc. A lot of that feels absent from the two chapters in Morrowind.

Syldras wrote: »

There's also more drama in the forum than in game. Not sure what that says about the writing.

Nothing, the forum is full of drama queens. To be honest, that includes about a few peeves. Although to be fair, the fan communities of other TES games have less to dramatise, because Bethesda isn't meddling with the game mechanics of Skyrim and Oblivion every few months for the benefit of competitive players who want a level field.

Syldras

kaushad wrote: »

I think every zone in Morrowind should feel gloomy. The Dunmer national identity is famously "grave"/"grim"/"gloomy" etc. A lot of that feels absent from the two chapters in Morrowind.

I agree very much with the rest of your post, but this is stereotyping. Another Dunmer stereotype that completely contradicts this is the behaviour considered typical for Dunmer taverns ("This is a Dark Elf bar. Cursing, spitting, and screaming? No problem. Fighting is fine with me, too, only the Guard objects, and they'll fine you or lock you up." - source, and there are another few of these examples). And there's also a stereotype about alleged promiscuity (in The Real Barenziah and A Less Rude Song). There's another contradictive stereotype about Dunmer being extremely stuffy and bureaucratic. So, what are they now? Dark and depressed? Stuffy, calm and overly polite? Or do they spend the whole day swearing, brawling, drinking and mating?

In the end, I prefer a more "realistic" approach when it comes to the depiction of a people, meaning that while some cultural traditions exist, it still doesn't mean every individual has the same mindset. When I look at the Dunmer, I see a honour-based society (with rather strict rules maybe compared to others), but that still doesn't mean everything has to be gloomy all the time (such societies also exist in real life, after all, and the people aren't just sitting around depressed all day). Same with rather serious individuals: Still doesn't mean that someone is low-spirited all day and knows no humour.

Ashryn

I think there is plenty of Gloom & Doom. Personally, I don't think the majority would want to 'live' in cruelty all the time.

ESO_player123

Syldras wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I agree. All you need to do is just pay attention to what's around you.
For example, currently I'm collecting the lore books from Eidetic memory collection that I missed. I found out that I did not have 3 books from the Imperial City Prison. It turned out that they are in the prisoners' cells, and when you are in a group everyone just run past them. So, today I decided to go on my own and collect them. It's a very different experience being there without any players. I recommend reading the "This is the end" book and then looking around (do not forget to look up). Also, read "Necromancer's Journal" in a cell after the first boss and then examine the cell (do not forget to look at the chair).
So, it's all there. And I'm glad that it's not all in the face.

I wouldn't describe that as producing a gloomy atmosphere most of the time though. Apart from that bloody/disgusting (there are often some small scenes like that; throwing meat chunks somewhere and implying they were human flesh is also a thing they do several times) isn't exactly what I'd call gloomy (or doesn't the English language differenciate between gloomy, creepy and gruesome - I actually though so?), it doesn't do anything to the overall atmosphere if you actively have to search for small details that many people even miss.

The opening sentence of the OP is "There is very little dark atmosphere, dark styles, dark and terrifying creatures in ESO. Coldharbour - the stronghold and the plane of one of the most cruel lords of Oblivion looks like a kindergarten for children. Why can't you add more cruelty, hopelessness, gloom?".

Gloom is mentioned, but it feels more about darkness, terror, and cruelty to me than about simply atmospheric effects or accompanying music. So, that stuff that you will find if you are looking for it fits the bill IMO. And, as I said before, I'm glad that it's more subtle and not all over the place.

darvaria

You are NOT addressing the most important issue. MORE players want things that are sparkles and pretty ......NOT gloom. You are killing animals ... animals like tigers, lions, bears .. animals that represent RL creatures. Is that NOT gloomy enough???

Dojohoda

Imperial City Sewers have a gloomy ambience especially deep into the sewers well away from one's base.

Throughout Tamriel are scenes featuring skeletons. Many of these scenes are tucked away and could go unnoticed.

Syldras

darvaria wrote: »

You are NOT addressing the most important issue. MORE players want things that are sparkles and pretty ......NOT gloom.

Do we know? All I see is that ZOS puts sparkly things into the store and that a few people buy them, but I don't see them in masses and there's also as many critical voices about them.

I personally think that dark and bright things should be healthily measured. If everything is bright and sparkly, there's nothing special about bright and sparkly things anymore. They need darkness to stand out. Same goes for the opposite of course: If everything is super horrid, a story event meant to be especially dire won't really have an emotional impact anymore.

darvaria wrote: »

You are killing animals ... animals like tigers, lions, bears .. animals that represent RL creatures. Is that NOT gloomy enough???

Killing creatues, including people, doesn't really feel serious in a game where everyone just respawns after a minute. That's indeed something that bothers me, although of course I know that it can't really be avoided in an MMO game.

Ilumia

I don't enjoy all the unnatural "dark" Daedric planes. I like natural spaces, preferably lighter ones like summerset that takes my mind of how ***, dark and cruel real life can be.
I was so disappointed with western skyrim and the reach being so gloomy and barren. It didn't feel like it did in skyrim at all, where there were still plenty of dark serious quests and caves, but an overland landscape full of actual green trees and life.

kaushad

Ilumia wrote: »

I don't enjoy all the unnatural "dark" Daedric planes. I like natural spaces, preferably lighter ones like summerset that takes my mind of how ***, dark and cruel real life can be.
I was so disappointed with western skyrim and the reach being so gloomy and barren. It didn't feel like it did in skyrim at all, where there were still plenty of dark serious quests and caves, but an overland landscape full of actual green trees and life.

Each to their own, but I don't associate the daedric planes much with real life darkness. As for Skyrim, I rather like how the swapped around some atmosphere between the games. After all, Windhelm was the gloomier cities in TESV, with its racism, segregation, serial killer, Sofie and tall, dark grey walls. Even parts of the palace were claustrophobic. Whereas in ESO, it's opened up, the city is having a party and the Nords, Dunmer and Argonians are getting along quite well by Pact standards. I daresay that it's Skyrim's most welcoming major city in ESO. Although I expect that Whiterun will eventually top that and maybe Winterhold should too.

Apart from the harrowstorms, I think the Reach is slightly less gloomy in ESO. The juniper trees aren't at all ugly, but they're quite drab as endemic flora in TESV and ESO go. The marshes of Western Skyrim could have been brighter in ESO though. I think it was the death bells (ironically) in TESV and maybe butterflies and dragonflies.

Syldras

Ilumia wrote: »

I was so disappointed with western skyrim and the reach being so gloomy and barren.

I enjoyed it and found it fitting for ZOS' premise for the chapter (if I'm not wrong, they stated in the reveal stream that they basically had an overall "gothic novel" theme in mind).

Then again, I find foggy grey days to be relaxing and cozy.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Jaimeh wrote: »

If you go to the deadlands you can see a daedroth grabbing a scamp and literally cheweing its head off then throwing it away. ESO has plenty of dark places, events, and moments, and I think it's more effective when it happens in a more subtle way, like the comment above said as well.

This is how I feel.

Seems like every game, for a while now, has to be bleak and depressing in atmosphere. It gets so it is not only hard to tell them apart, but also so they no longer *feel* bleak and depressing, because it just seems normal now.

I much prefer ESO the way it is, because it also makes sense.

Sure, there would be some bleak and depressing and gloomy areas, but not every place would be like that.

There is a war going on, but, life goes on. People would still be laughing and having fun, especially far from where the war is actually affecting people, and the weather/atmosphere wouldn't be affected by everything going on. So it makes more sense that most places, outside the actual warzones/daedric realms wouldn't necessarily be dark and gloomy, though they can still have moments of such.

(and as an aside, I tend to find things MORE horrifying if horrible things happen in a bright atmosphere. Gloomy atmosphere, you expect horrible things to happen, but you don't in brighter ones)

Ilumia

Syldras wrote: »

Ilumia wrote: »

I was so disappointed with western skyrim and the reach being so gloomy and barren.

I enjoyed it and found it fitting for ZOS' premise for the chapter (if I'm not wrong, they stated in the reveal stream that they basically had an overall "gothic novel" theme in mind).

Then again, I find foggy grey days to be relaxing and cozy.

And they make me unhappy and depress my mood (as in not clinically depressed, but worse than on sunny, bright days).

TaSheen

Now, I really LOVE gloomy grey days, whether rain, snow, or fog. FAR preferable IRL to bright hot sunny days.... But I really don't like gloomy grey games.... The gloom in areas of this game is quite enough.

katanagirl1

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

If you go to the deadlands you can see a daedroth grabbing a scamp and literally cheweing its head off then throwing it away. ESO has plenty of dark places, events, and moments, and I think it's more effective when it happens in a more subtle way, like the comment above said as well.

This is how I feel.

Seems like every game, for a while now, has to be bleak and depressing in atmosphere. It gets so it is not only hard to tell them apart, but also so they no longer *feel* bleak and depressing, because it just seems normal now.

I much prefer ESO the way it is, because it also makes sense.

Sure, there would be some bleak and depressing and gloomy areas, but not every place would be like that.

There is a war going on, but, life goes on. People would still be laughing and having fun, especially far from where the war is actually affecting people, and the weather/atmosphere wouldn't be affected by everything going on. So it makes more sense that most places, outside the actual warzones/daedric realms wouldn't necessarily be dark and gloomy, though they can still have moments of such.

(and as an aside, I tend to find things MORE horrifying if horrible things happen in a bright atmosphere. Gloomy atmosphere, you expect horrible things to happen, but you don't in brighter ones)

While the harrowstorms are gloomy, the Reach is one of my more favorite zones. I love the Blackreach area and the Markarth style Dwemer structures. I wish we had more of them in our furnishing plans.

As for a war going on, that reminds me of a quote in Mass Effect by Joker when he sees an npc dancing in the nightclub after the Reaper invasion - something about no one waves their arms around like that while dancing unless it’s the end of the world, lol.

EDIT: typo

JemadarofCaerSalis

katanagirl1 wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

If you go to the deadlands you can see a daedroth grabbing a scamp and literally cheweing its head off then throwing it away. ESO has plenty of dark places, events, and moments, and I think it's more effective when it happens in a more subtle way, like the comment above said as well.

This is how I feel.

Seems like every game, for a while now, has to be bleak and depressing in atmosphere. It gets so it is not only hard to tell them apart, but also so they no longer *feel* bleak and depressing, because it just seems normal now.

I much prefer ESO the way it is, because it also makes sense.

Sure, there would be some bleak and depressing and gloomy areas, but not every place would be like that.

There is a war going on, but, life goes on. People would still be laughing and having fun, especially far from where the war is actually affecting people, and the weather/atmosphere wouldn't be affected by everything going on. So it makes more sense that most places, outside the actual warzones/daedric realms wouldn't necessarily be dark and gloomy, though they can still have moments of such.

(and as an aside, I tend to find things MORE horrifying if horrible things happen in a bright atmosphere. Gloomy atmosphere, you expect horrible things to happen, but you don't in brighter ones)

While the harrowstorms are gloomy, the Reach is one of my more favorite zones. I love the Blackreach area and the Markarth style Dwemer structures. I wish we had more of them in our furnishing plans.

As for a war going on, that reminds me of a quote in Mass Effect by Joker when he sees an npc dancing in the nightclub after the Reaper invasion - something about no one waves their arms around like that while dancing unless it’s the end of the world, lol.

EDIT: typo

I loved Blackreach in Skyrim, it always felt magical, now if someone could have eradicated those spiders before I got there, it would have been perfect!

I tend to be variable sometimes I want something like the reach, with snow, other times I want nice grassy fields and a nice lake somewhere.