ZoS, does healing truly work this way?

LadyGP

Lots of very experienced players here that are trusted among the community. Can you provide some context as to how instance based healing does/doesn't work - VERY concerning if this is the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xFU6UWgsXs

Xandreia_

@LadyGP yeah we tested it, did one instance where our OT ported in RG first and then one where he ported in last, the one when he ported in last we couldn't consistently heal him through taint with targeted heals like healthy offering

LadyGP

Xandreia_ wrote: »

@LadyGP yeah we tested it, did one instance where our OT ported in RG first and then one where he ported in last, the one when he ported in last we couldn't consistently heal him through taint with targeted heals like healthy offering

This would make SO much sense. We have had some very... odd.... moments in trials where people were getting heals, or so we thought, but still died some how.

Xandreia_

we pringle taints too so being able to heal our OT through it is kinda important lol, even springs and combat prayer didnt work right

BetweenMidgets

I am also curious. Nefas talks about Cyro in the latter part of the video. As that is my prime source of enjoyment in ESO, I'm interested in more information.

One thing that is tangentially related to this somehow, I'm sure, is that if the leader DCs, its always the SAME person who gets the crown. Definitely not random. It is definitely not predicated on when the person joins the raid, but there are some underlying mechanics that we definitely are not aware of.

Soarora

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

I am also curious. Nefas talks about Cyro in the latter part of the video. As that is my prime source of enjoyment in ESO, I'm interested in more information.

One thing that is tangentially related to this somehow, I'm sure, is that if the leader DCs, its always the SAME person who gets the crown. Definitely not random. It is definitely not predicated on when the person joins the raid, but there are some underlying mechanics that we definitely are not aware of.

I have heard when it comes to crown it’s based on account age, as someone from beta said they always get it.

Edit: which I guess makes sense and could be intentional, because you don’t want the person who joined yesterday getting crown and not knowing what to do with it.

LadyGP

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

I am also curious. Nefas talks about Cyro in the latter part of the video. As that is my prime source of enjoyment in ESO, I'm interested in more information.

One thing that is tangentially related to this somehow, I'm sure, is that if the leader DCs, its always the SAME person who gets the crown. Definitely not random. It is definitely not predicated on when the person joins the raid, but there are some underlying mechanics that we definitely are not aware of.

This is another good point that I never thought about. When I would run in ball groups and crown would crash it would ALWAYS go to the same person during that raid.

Next raid it would be a different person but the same person during that days raid.

This lines up with the whole "instanced priority".

BetweenMidgets

LadyGP wrote: »

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

I am also curious. Nefas talks about Cyro in the latter part of the video. As that is my prime source of enjoyment in ESO, I'm interested in more information.

One thing that is tangentially related to this somehow, I'm sure, is that if the leader DCs, its always the SAME person who gets the crown. Definitely not random. It is definitely not predicated on when the person joins the raid, but there are some underlying mechanics that we definitely are not aware of.

This is another good point that I never thought about. When I would run in ball groups and crown would crash it would ALWAYS go to the same person during that raid.

Next raid it would be a different person but the same person during that days raid.

This lines up with the whole "instanced priority".

Ours is ALWAYS the same person. If this particular person is in raid, they will ALWAYS get crown with the leader inevitably crashes due to server stability. Very strange indeed.

LadyGP

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

I am also curious. Nefas talks about Cyro in the latter part of the video. As that is my prime source of enjoyment in ESO, I'm interested in more information.

One thing that is tangentially related to this somehow, I'm sure, is that if the leader DCs, its always the SAME person who gets the crown. Definitely not random. It is definitely not predicated on when the person joins the raid, but there are some underlying mechanics that we definitely are not aware of.

This is another good point that I never thought about. When I would run in ball groups and crown would crash it would ALWAYS go to the same person during that raid.

Next raid it would be a different person but the same person during that days raid.

This lines up with the whole "instanced priority".

Ours is ALWAYS the same person. If this particular person is in raid, they will ALWAYS get crown with the leader inevitably crashes due to server stability. Very strange indeed.

Yeah, hopefully we can get a comment from ZoS on this and force a rework to the healing system if this is in fact the case (I'm positive it is).

Stafford197

It’s interesting how this works out and explains many odd inconsistencies with healing. Thank you to those who tested!

Since there has to be a healing priority applied to each of us, it would be better if this was determined based on proximity to the source of the heal. EX:
• Vigor applies itself onto the 6 closest targets from you, with the cast centered on you
• Budding Seeds HoT and Burst applies to the 6 closest targets to the ability’s center, and is checked at the time of each individual tick

This would give us far more control over our own abilities. Of course this assumes targets have equal Health (low Health targets should remain as highest priority).

Hopefully ZOS comments with more info. Labeling our base healing priority based on who enters the instance earlier is such a weird method, surely this is due to some sort of technical limitation and not just choice….

Xandreia_

Stafford197 wrote: »

It’s interesting how this works out and explains many odd inconsistencies with healing. Thank you to those who tested!

Since there has to be a healing priority applied to each of us, it would be better if this was determined based on proximity to the source of the heal. EX:
• Vigor applies itself onto the 6 closest targets from you, with the cast centered on you
• Budding Seeds HoT and Burst applies to the 6 closest targets to the ability’s center, and is checked at the time of each individual tick

This would give us far more control over our own abilities. Of course this assumes targets have equal Health (low Health targets should remain as highest priority).

Hopefully ZOS comments with more info. Labeling our base healing priority based on who enters the instance earlier is such a weird method, surely this is due to some sort of technical limitation and not just choice….

the only thing with that is, if its closest to the centre, in fights where dps are needing to soft stack its going to be hard to keep them all in heals, i understand where you are coming from though. (edit* i should have said i specifically mean solo healing with this part. tired and rambling doesn't go together well haha)

if zos are going to prioritize healing in this way then they need to tell us so atleast our tanks can get in there first, dps get healed regardless of where they are in the priority list as we heal through them to get to tanks.

the newer trials require us to be able to heal the tanks no matter what. with how this prioritizing thing is working out, if 1 tank ends up being 7th to go in they and the healers are going to have a bad time lol

abkam

Oh, I see! Damn... well, it's all okay! Teabagging is way worse.

Stafford197

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

It’s interesting how this works out and explains many odd inconsistencies with healing. Thank you to those who tested!

Since there has to be a healing priority applied to each of us, it would be better if this was determined based on proximity to the source of the heal. EX:
• Vigor applies itself onto the 6 closest targets from you, with the cast centered on you
• Budding Seeds HoT and Burst applies to the 6 closest targets to the ability’s center, and is checked at the time of each individual tick

This would give us far more control over our own abilities. Of course this assumes targets have equal Health (low Health targets should remain as highest priority).

Hopefully ZOS comments with more info. Labeling our base healing priority based on who enters the instance earlier is such a weird method, surely this is due to some sort of technical limitation and not just choice….

the only thing with that is, if its closest to the centre, in fights where dps are needing to soft stack its going to be hard to keep them all in heals, i understand where you are coming from though.

if zos are going to prioritize healing in this way then they need to tell us so atleast our tanks can get in there first, dps get healed regardless of where they are in the priority list as we heal through them to get to tanks.

the newer trials require us to be able to heal the tanks no matter what. with how this prioritizing thing is working out, if 1 tank ends up being 7th to go in they and the healers are going to have a bad time lol

I’ve got the trifectas down but I totally understand, I’m just trying to think of a method which would at least give us control over our heals as opposed to traveling into an instance first.

A couple other ideas:
1. Healer Roles can be assigned themselves and 5 others as their “priority” heals. That way groups with two healers will always have at least one Healer prioritizing them.
2. Instead of Tank, Healer, DPS Roles, we could instead change this within Trials to be Tank 1, Tank 2, Heal 1, Heal 2, DPS 1, DPS 2, etc? And the smaller numbers mean higher priority. Or we can just keep roles the same but Tanks always have highest priority.
3. Priority can decrease based on how many HoTs are currently active on you. That should make it so we can at least cast Vigor on everyone.

I feel that a lot of things would be better than the current way is all.

Xandreia_

Stafford197 wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

It’s interesting how this works out and explains many odd inconsistencies with healing. Thank you to those who tested!

Since there has to be a healing priority applied to each of us, it would be better if this was determined based on proximity to the source of the heal. EX:
• Vigor applies itself onto the 6 closest targets from you, with the cast centered on you
• Budding Seeds HoT and Burst applies to the 6 closest targets to the ability’s center, and is checked at the time of each individual tick

This would give us far more control over our own abilities. Of course this assumes targets have equal Health (low Health targets should remain as highest priority).

Hopefully ZOS comments with more info. Labeling our base healing priority based on who enters the instance earlier is such a weird method, surely this is due to some sort of technical limitation and not just choice….

the only thing with that is, if its closest to the centre, in fights where dps are needing to soft stack its going to be hard to keep them all in heals, i understand where you are coming from though.

if zos are going to prioritize healing in this way then they need to tell us so atleast our tanks can get in there first, dps get healed regardless of where they are in the priority list as we heal through them to get to tanks.

the newer trials require us to be able to heal the tanks no matter what. with how this prioritizing thing is working out, if 1 tank ends up being 7th to go in they and the healers are going to have a bad time lol

I’ve got the trifectas down but I totally understand, I’m just trying to think of a method which would at least give us control over our heals as opposed to traveling into an instance first.

A couple other ideas:
1. Healer Roles can be assigned themselves and 5 others as their “priority” heals. That way groups with two healers will always have at least one Healer prioritizing them.
2. Instead of Tank, Healer, DPS Roles, we could instead change this within Trials to be Tank 1, Tank 2, Heal 1, Heal 2, DPS 1, DPS 2, etc? And the smaller numbers mean higher priority. Or we can just keep roles the same but Tanks always have highest priority.
3. Priority can decrease based on how many HoTs are currently active on you. That should make it so we can at least cast Vigor on everyone.

I feel that a lot of things would be better than the current way is all.

yeah i get where you're coming from, would essentially just be slayer stacks at all times lol i just wish they wouldn't do this stuff and leave us for weeks wondering if we suddenly became really bad at the game lol

LadyGP

I've seen healers spam heals and someones health not move before. This all makes much more sense.

DenverRalphy

LOL! Good luckk getting the last few spots of a PuG filled anymore.

LadyGP

DenverRalphy wrote: »

LOL! Good luckk getting the last few spots of a PuG filled anymore.

Last one to raid gets the least amount of heals!!!!!!!! lol.

BagOfBadgers

Getting 1st into vLC guild trial tonight and I will be IMMORTAL!!!! Woohahaha

SolarRune

What we want here is consistency or if it is working as intended a way to tell how different heals work in the description, that is not there at the moment, we have heals that heal based on the priority, then we have other heals that assess at every tick, then we have other heals that based on healing priority but assess at different times based on a HOT and a burst. Feels awfully like poor communication between different devs on how heals should work.

It shows why the old 1h 4DD each side of the boss(es) works well - because as long as heals don't overlap players then you have everyone covered (similar to slayer stacks).

YandereGirlfriend

SolarRune wrote: »

What we want here is consistency or if it is working as intended a way to tell how different heals work in the description, that is not there at the moment, we have heals that heal based on the priority, then we have other heals that assess at every tick, then we have other heals that based on healing priority but assess at different times based on a HOT and a burst. Feels awfully like poor communication between different devs on how heals should work.

It shows why the old 1h 4DD each side of the boss(es) works well - because as long as heals don't overlap players then you have everyone covered (similar to slayer stacks).

Honestly, they should simply abolish the 6-player cap for most heals. Would be the simplest and most intuitive implementation.

sarahthes

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SolarRune wrote: »

What we want here is consistency or if it is working as intended a way to tell how different heals work in the description, that is not there at the moment, we have heals that heal based on the priority, then we have other heals that assess at every tick, then we have other heals that based on healing priority but assess at different times based on a HOT and a burst. Feels awfully like poor communication between different devs on how heals should work.

It shows why the old 1h 4DD each side of the boss(es) works well - because as long as heals don't overlap players then you have everyone covered (similar to slayer stacks).

Honestly, they should simply abolish the 6-player cap for most heals. Would be the simplest and most intuitive implementation.

They'd have to address other issues related to PvP and healing first if they did that.

blktauna

That first in more heals thing is massively effed up.

Aside from that I am usually early so that explains alot.

SolarRune

sarahthes wrote: »

They'd have to address other issues related to PvP and healing first if they did that.

If they did go down the route of overhauling healing, then PVP would have tobe part of that and I would hope they would look at providing some of the suggestions around limiting stacking heals using battlespirit.

ForumSavant

This is one of many issues with healing. The recent removal of healing from LoS ruined more than it fixed. I want healing to not heal players through walls or up and down a massive height difference, but it now functions horribly, and worst of all, inconsistently.

Different areas of the map are just dead spots for healing(and probably damage) if you are not on the exact same height. If there is a tiny bump on the ground or you are up a single stair but shoulder to shoulder with someone, you can miss every heal that obeys this new LoS, which should only prevent healing through walls and major height differences. If you cast something like BoP or barrier, even while touching someone else, if they are on a slight bump it can fail to heal at all and just be a wasted ability.

This needs to be looked at in addition to many things wrong with not just healing, but the game code in general.

SolarRune

Think about what you have said in light of this new information (and ongoing investigtion) - i would now guess that the things we were told about height etc is now more likely to be related to healing priority than those small differences in height.

Howda

LadyGP wrote: »

Lots of very experienced players here that are trusted among the community. Can you provide some context as to how instance based healing does/doesn't work - VERY concerning if this is the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xFU6UWgsXs

Now it makes sense. I am always last in trials waiting for everyone and then I feel I am the squishiest around. If this is Cyrodiil wise... well not sure what to think and say that will not get me banned.. lol

We need healing system update.
- make healing overtime major and minor buffs that stacks twice only.
- or make overall sources to only stack twice. Like you can be affected only from 2 echoing vigors

rauyran

This video is already out of date. Further testing shows that each trial is divided up into "cells" and the order that healing is applied is recalculated based on the order in which players enter the cell. This is probably a server performance optimization to avoid recalculating priorities every second.

Stafford197

rauyran wrote: »

This video is already out of date. Further testing shows that each trial is divided up into "cells" and the order that healing is applied is recalculated based on the order in which players enter the cell. This is probably a server performance optimization to avoid recalculating priorities every second.

But by that logic the testing still stands though, right? Since entering the instance places you in the first “cell” for that trial.

If you enter another cell, for example in Rockgrove we would enter the oblivion portal after defeating Bahsei, that should be the point in which healing priority is then redistributed based on who entered first. Is that correct?

I wonder if someone can steal top healing priority if they enter a cell while not being full Health lol.

NotNi.ya

Stafford197 wrote: »

rauyran wrote: »

This video is already out of date. Further testing shows that each trial is divided up into "cells" and the order that healing is applied is recalculated based on the order in which players enter the cell. This is probably a server performance optimization to avoid recalculating priorities every second.

But by that logic the testing still stands though, right? Since entering the instance places you in the first “cell” for that trial.

If you enter another cell, for example in Rockgrove we would enter the oblivion portal after defeating Bahsei, that should be the point in which healing priority is then redistributed based on who entered first. Is that correct?

I wonder if someone can steal top healing priority if they enter a cell while not being full Health lol.

we have started letting supports ( 2 tanks, 2 healers, cro and zenkosh) go through that portal first then the 6 dps left over. it sucks that we have to do this lol

YandereGirlfriend

It probably works the same way with "cells" in Cyro as well but that will have to be definitively tested.

LadyGP

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It probably works the same way with "cells" in Cyro as well but that will have to be definitively tested.

Imagine if this is how it works in cyro. Oh my.