20 consecutive West Weald Treasure Maps with ZERO leads

CGPsaint

evymyu233 wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

evymyu233 wrote: »

10 maps no lead here

I wish I would have stopped at 10 maps, because digging up 30 consecutive maps with zero leads was the straw that broke the camel's back. Between the insanely poor lead drop implementation and nonsensicle RNG, I'm just fed up with grinding and grinding and grinding with little to no reward. The game has gotten stale, and the new features are just more of the same old mind-numbingly boring grind. I really wanted to try and complete the codex, but honestly it's just not worth it.

now 20 maps no lead...I just want some furniture...

I feel ya. I just wanted the furniture for a new build and to complete the codex, but apparently ESO had other plans. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The RNG and implementation of loot drops in ESO is the absolute worst of any game that I've ever played. I've put up with it for almost a decade, but no more. The game is no longer fun, rewarding, or worth the vast majority of my available play time. I've already loaded all of my traders and will continue to liquidate anything that can be sold in game. I guess I'll just stockpile gold and if things turn around I'll give it another go, but for now I'm going to focus on cleaning up achievements in my massive backlog of games. Games that I've neglected over the years because of this time sink.

Hapexamendios

Treasure chest leads are just not worth chasing imo.

evymyu233

22 maps,get a blue lead,better than nothing

redlink1979

I_killed_Vivec

DenverRalphy wrote: »

When you dig up treasure maps, if you don't get a lead within the 2nd or 3rd try, don't do any more on that character until reset the next day. Each day the first time each of your characters log in, they are assigned a random number seed for their loot table rolls. That seed can be great, can be average, can be absolutely hopeless.

If you're getting horrible results, switch characters, or wait until the next day.

So many questions...

How do you know? Have you seen their code?

Why do they seed a "personal" RNG, instead of just using a global RNG? It seems incredibly wasteful to maintain a separate RNG instance for each character. Even in previous ES games, where "luck" was an attribute, there's no need to have a separate RNG for "lucky" characters, you just modify the required score.

How can a seed be great, average or hopeless? If the RNG is any good then the result of one go cannot be predicted (without knowledge of the internal state) from the previous go. So one go having a poor result should have no effect on the next.

People are notoriously bad at looking at random data, we have built in pattern recognition that leads our intuitive understanding astray. The other problem that we have is that the randomicity is spread over all players - a bad streak for one player can be offset by someone else having a lucky streak, it's just that each player only gets to see their own.

But of course none of that is any comfort to those who are on the unpleasant end of the RNG stick. Though the problem isn't so much the RNG, it's the drop rate.

CGPsaint

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

But of course none of that is any comfort to those who are on the unpleasant end of the RNG stick. Though the problem isn't so much the RNG, it's the drop rate.

Spot on. The drops rates for leads are all over the place. There's the gold lead that drops in Coldharbour like candy, and then there's other leads that don't drop after 50-100 attempts. The drops rates need to be evaluated and standardized and for the love of Vivec, the leads need to be curated at the very least for the first 3 codex entries. Literally nobody is interested in digging up thousands of treasure maps to attempt to complete the content that ZOS so clearly wants us to engage with.

ShadowPaladin

Buffy121 wrote: »

Hold on to those treasure maps. An event is coming in Jan/Feb ( my guess) called the Pan-Tamriel Celebration. Here are the patch notes on the PTS v10.2.2

Treasure hunters, during this event any chests you dig up using Treasure Maps will roll again on all of their existing loot, greatly improving your chance to get leads, furnishings, etc. that are exclusive to that source.

That is something which we should not get through an event, which may only happen once a year. Instead this should be something we should get for example through a passive skill from one of the new companions, after maxing it out.

BetweenMidgets

DenverRalphy wrote: »

When you dig up treasure maps, if you don't get a lead within the 2nd or 3rd try, don't do any more on that character until reset the next day. Each day the first time each of your characters log in, they are assigned a random number seed for their loot table rolls. That seed can be great, can be average, can be absolutely hopeless.

If you're getting horrible results, switch characters, or wait until the next day.

Would you please provide us with the context by which you came to this conclusion, or a citation?

I do not believe this.

DenverRalphy

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

When you dig up treasure maps, if you don't get a lead within the 2nd or 3rd try, don't do any more on that character until reset the next day. Each day the first time each of your characters log in, they are assigned a random number seed for their loot table rolls. That seed can be great, can be average, can be absolutely hopeless.

If you're getting horrible results, switch characters, or wait until the next day.

So many questions...

How do you know? Have you seen their code?

Why do they seed a "personal" RNG, instead of just using a global RNG? It seems incredibly wasteful to maintain a separate RNG instance for each character. Even in previous ES games, where "luck" was an attribute, there's no need to have a separate RNG for "lucky" characters, you just modify the required score.

How can a seed be great, average or hopeless? If the RNG is any good then the result of one go cannot be predicted (without knowledge of the internal state) from the previous go. So one go having a poor result should have no effect on the next.

People are notoriously bad at looking at random data, we have built in pattern recognition that leads our intuitive understanding astray. The other problem that we have is that the randomicity is spread over all players - a bad streak for one player can be offset by someone else having a lucky streak, it's just that each player only gets to see their own.

But of course none of that is any comfort to those who are on the unpleasant end of the RNG stick. Though the problem isn't so much the RNG, it's the drop rate.

This is hardly the first time this subject has come up. And it certainly won't be the last. I once questioned the veracity of the claim myself, until I saw it explained by a ZoS representative (another user dug it up in an older thread that I hadn't seen).

Each character is assigned a seed upon its first login each day. And basically, here's how it works...

Computers cannot actually choose numbers at random. So a system was designed to create what's called a Seed. The seed basically generates a sequence of non-sequential and non-repeating numbers from an algorithm that begins with the Seed Value. When a random number is called upon, the seed is returns the next number in the sequence. This concept is familiar to pretty much any computer nerd.

[disclaimer] The following numbers are completely arbitrary and just simplified for ease of explanation.

Let's assume the seed is a sequence of 10 numbers, and they are [2,8,5,0,1,4,3,9,6,7].

Now let's say the character loots a resource node and let's determine that the drop rate is a 20% chance for a furnishing mat. Now let us maintain that the resource node loot table assigns the Furnishing Mats to occupy the number 6 and 7 slots of a 10 slot table. In this scenario the character won't loot a furnishing mat unless the seed is referencing the 9th or 10th time before it loops back to the beginning and starts over.

Pretty simple so far right? Wait, there's more...

Now lets determine that the develoopers would not use such a short sequence as the seed. Because it would be too simple for players to game the system, like counting cards in a casino and only hit when they know a positive result is forthcoming. So the seed gets expanded from 10 to a couple Thousand.

Now a character ventures out with a fresh new Seed, with no idea where the Good hits sit in the sequence. If as in the example above all the good hits are toward the end of the sequence, then the character won't reliably see any Furnishing Mats until they've roled at least 1300-1600 times. As you can imagine, that could be a very very long time depending on how large the actual seed is.

So depending on the seed value assigned to the character at login, the good hits could be toward the beginning, toward the end, toward the middle, scattered clusters throughout, or spread out evenly across the entire length of the sequence. Only way to know is to try for a while, and know when to pull up stakes and when to keep on keepin on.

And here's where it gets even more complicated. What may be a good value for furnishing mats, may be a horrible value for motifs, furnishing plans, companion gear, lead drops, etc.. depending on where each type of loot resides in their corresponding loot table. And then it gets even more complicated... what if while you were harvesting resource nodes you kill a monster and loot the corpse? What value was used on the corpse that doesn't drop furnishing mats at all. Was an opportunity missed?


Anyhoo. That's my recollection of the rather lengthy explanation given before. You can take my word for it, or not. It matters not to me. And beyond typing this response, I have no desire to go searching for it all over again.

katanagirl1

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

When you dig up treasure maps, if you don't get a lead within the 2nd or 3rd try, don't do any more on that character until reset the next day. Each day the first time each of your characters log in, they are assigned a random number seed for their loot table rolls. That seed can be great, can be average, can be absolutely hopeless.

If you're getting horrible results, switch characters, or wait until the next day.

So many questions...

How do you know? Have you seen their code?

Why do they seed a "personal" RNG, instead of just using a global RNG? It seems incredibly wasteful to maintain a separate RNG instance for each character. Even in previous ES games, where "luck" was an attribute, there's no need to have a separate RNG for "lucky" characters, you just modify the required score.

How can a seed be great, average or hopeless? If the RNG is any good then the result of one go cannot be predicted (without knowledge of the internal state) from the previous go. So one go having a poor result should have no effect on the next.

People are notoriously bad at looking at random data, we have built in pattern recognition that leads our intuitive understanding astray. The other problem that we have is that the randomicity is spread over all players - a bad streak for one player can be offset by someone else having a lucky streak, it's just that each player only gets to see their own.

But of course none of that is any comfort to those who are on the unpleasant end of the RNG stick. Though the problem isn't so much the RNG, it's the drop rate.

This is hardly the first time this subject has come up. And it certainly won't be the last. I once questioned the veracity of the claim myself, until I saw it explained by a ZoS representative (another user dug it up in an older thread that I hadn't seen).

Each character is assigned a seed upon its first login each day. And basically, here's how it works...

Computers cannot actually choose numbers at random. So a system was designed to create what's called a Seed. The seed basically generates a sequence of non-sequential and non-repeating numbers from an algorithm that begins with the Seed Value. When a random number is called upon, the seed is returns the next number in the sequence. This concept is familiar to pretty much any computer nerd.

[disclaimer] The following numbers are completely arbitrary and just simplified for ease of explanation.

Let's assume the seed is a sequence of 10 numbers, and they are [2,8,5,0,1,4,3,9,6,7].

Now let's say the character loots a resource node and let's determine that the drop rate is a 20% chance for a furnishing mat. Now let us maintain that the resource node loot table assigns the Furnishing Mats to occupy the number 6 and 7 slots of a 10 slot table. In this scenario the character won't loot a furnishing mat unless the seed is referencing the 9th or 10th time before it loops back to the beginning and starts over.

Pretty simple so far right? Wait, there's more...

Now lets determine that the develoopers would not use such a short sequence as the seed. Because it would be too simple for players to game the system, like counting cards in a casino and only hit when they know a positive result is forthcoming. So the seed gets expanded from 10 to a couple Thousand.

Now a character ventures out with a fresh new Seed, with no idea where the Good hits sit in the sequence. If as in the example above all the good hits are toward the end of the sequence, then the character won't reliably see any Furnishing Mats until they've roled at least 1300-1600 times. As you can imagine, that could be a very very long time depending on how large the actual seed is.

So depending on the seed value assigned to the character at login, the good hits could be toward the beginning, toward the end, toward the middle, scattered clusters throughout, or spread out evenly across the entire length of the sequence. Only way to know is to try for a while, and know when to pull up stakes and when to keep on keepin on.

And here's where it gets even more complicated. What may be a good value for furnishing mats, may be a horrible value for motifs, furnishing plans, companion gear, lead drops, etc.. depending on where each type of loot resides in their corresponding loot table. And then it gets even more complicated... what if while you were harvesting resource nodes you kill a monster and loot the corpse? What value was used on the corpse that doesn't drop furnishing mats at all. Was an opportunity missed?


Anyhoo. That's my recollection of the rather lengthy explanation given before. You can take my word for it, or not. It matters not to me. And beyond typing this response, I have no desire to go searching for it all over again.

I also wonder if there is a mechanic that limits the number of good pulls from nodes or reward boxes or whatever. Lots of players have said they get better drops when there are fewer players around. What if there is a max number of drops for example - Ayleid Remnants - in a period of time, sort of like the max number of players getting loot from a world boss? The reports of player’s rng from those seem to be at one extreme or another, lots or barely any.

It could explain why the performance of the game can be so bad during events and such too.

CGPsaint

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

When you dig up treasure maps, if you don't get a lead within the 2nd or 3rd try, don't do any more on that character until reset the next day. Each day the first time each of your characters log in, they are assigned a random number seed for their loot table rolls. That seed can be great, can be average, can be absolutely hopeless.

If you're getting horrible results, switch characters, or wait until the next day.

So many questions...

How do you know? Have you seen their code?

Why do they seed a "personal" RNG, instead of just using a global RNG? It seems incredibly wasteful to maintain a separate RNG instance for each character. Even in previous ES games, where "luck" was an attribute, there's no need to have a separate RNG for "lucky" characters, you just modify the required score.

How can a seed be great, average or hopeless? If the RNG is any good then the result of one go cannot be predicted (without knowledge of the internal state) from the previous go. So one go having a poor result should have no effect on the next.

People are notoriously bad at looking at random data, we have built in pattern recognition that leads our intuitive understanding astray. The other problem that we have is that the randomicity is spread over all players - a bad streak for one player can be offset by someone else having a lucky streak, it's just that each player only gets to see their own.

But of course none of that is any comfort to those who are on the unpleasant end of the RNG stick. Though the problem isn't so much the RNG, it's the drop rate.

This is hardly the first time this subject has come up. And it certainly won't be the last. I once questioned the veracity of the claim myself, until I saw it explained by a ZoS representative (another user dug it up in an older thread that I hadn't seen).

Each character is assigned a seed upon its first login each day. And basically, here's how it works...

Computers cannot actually choose numbers at random. So a system was designed to create what's called a Seed. The seed basically generates a sequence of non-sequential and non-repeating numbers from an algorithm that begins with the Seed Value. When a random number is called upon, the seed is returns the next number in the sequence. This concept is familiar to pretty much any computer nerd.

[disclaimer] The following numbers are completely arbitrary and just simplified for ease of explanation.

Let's assume the seed is a sequence of 10 numbers, and they are [2,8,5,0,1,4,3,9,6,7].

Now let's say the character loots a resource node and let's determine that the drop rate is a 20% chance for a furnishing mat. Now let us maintain that the resource node loot table assigns the Furnishing Mats to occupy the number 6 and 7 slots of a 10 slot table. In this scenario the character won't loot a furnishing mat unless the seed is referencing the 9th or 10th time before it loops back to the beginning and starts over.

Pretty simple so far right? Wait, there's more...

Now lets determine that the develoopers would not use such a short sequence as the seed. Because it would be too simple for players to game the system, like counting cards in a casino and only hit when they know a positive result is forthcoming. So the seed gets expanded from 10 to a couple Thousand.

Now a character ventures out with a fresh new Seed, with no idea where the Good hits sit in the sequence. If as in the example above all the good hits are toward the end of the sequence, then the character won't reliably see any Furnishing Mats until they've roled at least 1300-1600 times. As you can imagine, that could be a very very long time depending on how large the actual seed is.

So depending on the seed value assigned to the character at login, the good hits could be toward the beginning, toward the end, toward the middle, scattered clusters throughout, or spread out evenly across the entire length of the sequence. Only way to know is to try for a while, and know when to pull up stakes and when to keep on keepin on.

And here's where it gets even more complicated. What may be a good value for furnishing mats, may be a horrible value for motifs, furnishing plans, companion gear, lead drops, etc.. depending on where each type of loot resides in their corresponding loot table. And then it gets even more complicated... what if while you were harvesting resource nodes you kill a monster and loot the corpse? What value was used on the corpse that doesn't drop furnishing mats at all. Was an opportunity missed?


Anyhoo. That's my recollection of the rather lengthy explanation given before. You can take my word for it, or not. It matters not to me. And beyond typing this response, I have no desire to go searching for it all over again.

If this is honestly how the RNG/loot drops are determined, then I feel like I've made a good decision to drop ESO, as my RNG/loot drops account wide have always been terrible. I've played with a core group of friends for years who always get the motif chapters, style pages, leads, etc., and it has become a running joke that I don't get anything. I've submitted bug reports that have been ignored. It took me months of daily farming to get the 5 leads for the Torc of the Last Ayleid King, and several months beyond that to get 2 more leads for the 2nd codex entries. I have since purchased a 3rd lead for the 2nd codex entry from the AI vendor, but that progression has stalled again. It's been years and I still haven't finished the 3rd codex entry for the DDF, and I only completed it the second time because I was able to buy the DSA lead from the IA vendor. I am missing a handful of other leads across 9-10 mythics that I have farmed the dungeon sources for north of 50 times each. Nada. A day or two of bad RNG/loot drops is one thing, but years of it is ridiculous.

@ZOS_Kevin - Seriously, can we please get some some sort of acknowledgement or a comment in regards to this? Should I just keep digging up West Weald treasure maps to see just how many consecutive maps I can waste without a lead, or is 35 enough???

UntilValhalla13

They're doing what they're designed to do. Pad out game hours. XD

quinancia

Kevin doesn't need to respond. Ralphy's long, speculative, explanation doesn't support their central thesis.

Their central thesis is, " Each day the first time each of your characters log in, they are assigned a random number seed for their loot table rolls. That seed can be great, can be average, can be absolutely hopeless."

Nothing in their unsourced explanation supports that thesis.

Their explanation says that there is a seed generated when one first logs on, and from that random numbers are generated, and we don't know what those numbers are or when they will give us good loot.

The explanation never claims that some seeds are "good" and others are "hopeless"

DenverRalphy

quinancia wrote: »

Kevin doesn't need to respond. Ralphy's long, speculative, explanation doesn't support their central thesis.

Their central thesis is, " Each day the first time each of your characters log in, they are assigned a random number seed for their loot table rolls. That seed can be great, can be average, can be absolutely hopeless."

Nothing in their unsourced explanation supports that thesis.

Their explanation says that there is a seed generated when one first logs on, and from that random numbers are generated, and we don't know what those numbers are or when they will give us good loot.

The explanation never claims that some seeds are "good" and others are "hopeless"

Now, ya see... this is a perfect example of not correctly reading what was very plainly written.

I NEVER SAID that there are three concrete/absolute possible outcomes being Great, Avreage, Absolutely Hopless. I merely used those as examples to illustrate and represent a possible range of impact using a random seed. They were simply my words of description. That's it.

Don't read into it.

quinancia

Hi Ralphy,

It sounds like I wasn't able to articulate my argument in a way you could understand. My fault.

I don't know whether your explanation about how random numbers work in ESO is correct.

If we accept your explanation about how random numbers work, your thesis that some seeds are better than others, and that one should stop trying if they get a "bad seed" is not supported by your explanation of how random numbers work in ESO.

I_killed_Vivec

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

When you dig up treasure maps, if you don't get a lead within the 2nd or 3rd try, don't do any more on that character until reset the next day. Each day the first time each of your characters log in, they are assigned a random number seed for their loot table rolls. That seed can be great, can be average, can be absolutely hopeless.

If you're getting horrible results, switch characters, or wait until the next day.

So many questions...

How do you know? Have you seen their code?

Why do they seed a "personal" RNG, instead of just using a global RNG? It seems incredibly wasteful to maintain a separate RNG instance for each character. Even in previous ES games, where "luck" was an attribute, there's no need to have a separate RNG for "lucky" characters, you just modify the required score.

How can a seed be great, average or hopeless? If the RNG is any good then the result of one go cannot be predicted (without knowledge of the internal state) from the previous go. So one go having a poor result should have no effect on the next.

People are notoriously bad at looking at random data, we have built in pattern recognition that leads our intuitive understanding astray. The other problem that we have is that the randomicity is spread over all players - a bad streak for one player can be offset by someone else having a lucky streak, it's just that each player only gets to see their own.

But of course none of that is any comfort to those who are on the unpleasant end of the RNG stick. Though the problem isn't so much the RNG, it's the drop rate.

This is hardly the first time this subject has come up. And it certainly won't be the last. I once questioned the veracity of the claim myself, until I saw it explained by a ZoS representative (another user dug it up in an older thread that I hadn't seen).

Each character is assigned a seed upon its first login each day. And basically, here's how it works...

Computers cannot actually choose numbers at random. So a system was designed to create what's called a Seed. The seed basically generates a sequence of non-sequential and non-repeating numbers from an algorithm that begins with the Seed Value. When a random number is called upon, the seed is returns the next number in the sequence. This concept is familiar to pretty much any computer nerd.

[disclaimer] The following numbers are completely arbitrary and just simplified for ease of explanation.

Let's assume the seed is a sequence of 10 numbers, and they are [2,8,5,0,1,4,3,9,6,7].

Now let's say the character loots a resource node and let's determine that the drop rate is a 20% chance for a furnishing mat. Now let us maintain that the resource node loot table assigns the Furnishing Mats to occupy the number 6 and 7 slots of a 10 slot table. In this scenario the character won't loot a furnishing mat unless the seed is referencing the 9th or 10th time before it loops back to the beginning and starts over.

Pretty simple so far right? Wait, there's more...

Now lets determine that the develoopers would not use such a short sequence as the seed. Because it would be too simple for players to game the system, like counting cards in a casino and only hit when they know a positive result is forthcoming. So the seed gets expanded from 10 to a couple Thousand.

Now a character ventures out with a fresh new Seed, with no idea where the Good hits sit in the sequence. If as in the example above all the good hits are toward the end of the sequence, then the character won't reliably see any Furnishing Mats until they've roled at least 1300-1600 times. As you can imagine, that could be a very very long time depending on how large the actual seed is.

So depending on the seed value assigned to the character at login, the good hits could be toward the beginning, toward the end, toward the middle, scattered clusters throughout, or spread out evenly across the entire length of the sequence. Only way to know is to try for a while, and know when to pull up stakes and when to keep on keepin on.

And here's where it gets even more complicated. What may be a good value for furnishing mats, may be a horrible value for motifs, furnishing plans, companion gear, lead drops, etc.. depending on where each type of loot resides in their corresponding loot table. And then it gets even more complicated... what if while you were harvesting resource nodes you kill a monster and loot the corpse? What value was used on the corpse that doesn't drop furnishing mats at all. Was an opportunity missed?


Anyhoo. That's my recollection of the rather lengthy explanation given before. You can take my word for it, or not. It matters not to me. And beyond typing this response, I have no desire to go searching for it all over again.

Wow. That is a phenomenally complicated way of doing things!

I assumed that they just "rolled the dice", where the dice are a pseudo random number generator (PRNG) and each roll would be something like the encryption of 16 bytes of data (the seed). The loot table would provide a level of probabilities - so if they want something to drop with a rate of 1% then the number you roll would have to be at least 99% of the maximum number provided by 16 bytes (and that is a very, very big number ).

With a sufficiently strong encryption algorithm (AES) and 16 bytes of data it would be impossible to predict the next value given ALL of the previous values.

At least that's the way I'd do it, but I know a lot about random number generation and cryptography (it's my job), and little about generating numbers for games... it might be that their way is the only practical way for handling all the RNG for all the players.

CGPsaint

Dug up 5 more maps today. Nada. That's 40 maps with ZERO leads. I guess I'll keep digging to see just how deep this hole gets. The fact that it's even possible to have a run of "RNG" this bad is appalling for a game like ESO.

mayasunrising

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Necrotech_Master

yesterday i dug up like 5 maps (3 west weald, 1 deadlands, and 1 western skyrim), got a lead out of the first west weald one but none from the other 4 maps

i only just recently finished off the original leads from treasure maps from when the antiquities first released (got the last treasure map lead from a khenarthi map about a week ago)

LannStone

mayasunrising wrote: »

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lol, a DOS emoji - I remember when that was all we had

CGPsaint

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yesterday i dug up like 5 maps (3 west weald, 1 deadlands, and 1 western skyrim), got a lead out of the first west weald one but none from the other 4 maps

i only just recently finished off the original leads from treasure maps from when the antiquities first released (got the last treasure map lead from a khenarthi map about a week ago)

It shouldn't take hundreds of maps that generally give trash loot, just to get 14 unique leads. The lead implementation and loot drop RNG in ESO is pure S-Tier terrible.

Necrotech_Master

CGPsaint wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yesterday i dug up like 5 maps (3 west weald, 1 deadlands, and 1 western skyrim), got a lead out of the first west weald one but none from the other 4 maps

i only just recently finished off the original leads from treasure maps from when the antiquities first released (got the last treasure map lead from a khenarthi map about a week ago)

It shouldn't take hundreds of maps that generally give trash loot, just to get 14 unique leads. The lead implementation and loot drop RNG in ESO is pure S-Tier terrible.

yeah, theres plenty of things they could do to improve the situation though, some of which arent related to leads themselves

1. stackable maps (make it easier to dig up more)
2. increased chance for leads
3. curated leads (gives you leads you still need codex entries for)

a combination of 2 and 3 would actually just improve lead farming across the spectrum, not just for treasure maps

BetweenMidgets

DenverRalphy wrote: »

This is hardly the first time this subject has come up. And it certainly won't be the last. I once questioned the veracity of the claim myself, until I saw it explained by a ZoS representative (another user dug it up in an older thread that I hadn't seen).

Again, if you've seen this from a ZoS employee, it would be nice to show it to us.

Thank you for the in-depth explanation, but it would be nice if you came to the table with actual evidence that amounted to more than "I saw it this one time."

evymyu233

CGPsaint wrote: »

Dug up 5 more maps today. Nada. That's 40 maps with ZERO leads. I guess I'll keep digging to see just how deep this hole gets. The fact that it's even possible to have a run of "RNG" this bad is appalling for a game like ESO.

i dig about 10 more maps,no more lead,i stop.i will wait the Pan-Tamriel Celebration which zos say will greatly improving chance to get leads.hope to get some furniture at that time...

CGPsaint

evymyu233 wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Dug up 5 more maps today. Nada. That's 40 maps with ZERO leads. I guess I'll keep digging to see just how deep this hole gets. The fact that it's even possible to have a run of "RNG" this bad is appalling for a game like ESO.

i dig about 10 more maps,no more lead,i stop.i will wait the Pan-Tamriel Celebration which zos say will greatly improving chance to get leads.hope to get some furniture at that time...

I have at least another 150 maps that I can burn through. I'm genuinely curious just how many maps I can waste without a lead. Everyone map wasted just reinforces my decision to play other games. I crushed the co-op campaign in Halo Infinite last night, and made some decent progress on achievements in World of Tanks today. Those game have been a breath of fresh air and the play time felt so much more rewarding than gritting my teeth and dealing with another day of grinding for nothing in ESO. My play time in Tamriel now consists of digging up 5 maps and loading my traders as a liquidate my account. I'll just bank the gold and re-evaluate down the line some day.

CGPsaint

The final tally reached 48 West Weald treasure maps before finally getting a green lead. Simply amazing, but I'm sure it's just "working as intended."

MoonPile

Whoaaa. I was surprised to see the title of this thread when I was searching for something else, because I legitimately thought they improved drop rates for West Weald maps compared to Apoc/Necrom! I was having consistent drops, I'm sorry to see that's not the case

The seed explanation is interesting. It reminds me of another game, Valheim, where the world your character first lands is based on a seed system. Depending on how that map is random-generated, you could get a really crappy one where the merchant is off on some high level you'll take ages to get to, or nodes could be sparse, for example. It makes sense as a system for randomness generation but it's incredibly frustrating as a player.


Actually I was searching to see if they've improved anything with furnishing plans drop rates in West Weald on PTS. I'm really looking fwd to the Dawnwood items... but farming that kitchen is so not fun, with all the base-game whites and greens. I guess this may actually be kind of relevant, given the seed system.

jcaceresw

I must have been lucky in this last event. Took me the first three days of the event to get all leads that drop from treasure chests. Do consider I never used Scrying and Excavation while getting the leads. I believe it took me around 15 treasure maps to get all those leads.

Guess that's how I should do when getting leads from a specific source. I remember wasting millions of gold on about one thousand Deadlands treasure maps for just getting the last motif (helm) I needed. Got several dupes of all the other pieces I already excavated (since the leads aren't curated).

Pelanora

Curate everything.

Limit the drop times of no drop, for those bosses etc with something to drop.

Job done.

CGPsaint

Pelanora wrote: »

Curate everything.

Limit the drop times of no drop, for those bosses etc with something to drop.

Job done.

Curation wouldn't have helped me in this situation because I wasn't get any leads! That being said, I am 100% an advocate of curation to avoid this type of frustration. Just have a respectable drop rate (20% for treasure maps feels fair), and then have the leads be curated until you have completed the codex. After that you still get leads at X drop rate, but they can be any of the leads in the pool. I've burned untold hundreds of maps in Apocrypha trying to get the Apocryphal Well, but no dice. It's honestly so off-putting that I have zero interest in playing the game. ZOS needs to do better.